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    Bring4th Bring4th Community Olio Here we go again (wikipedia)

    Thread: Here we go again (wikipedia)


    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #61
    06-14-2014, 09:49 PM (This post was last modified: 06-14-2014, 10:53 PM by Adonai One.)
    https://docs.google.com/a/vervex.ca/file...y=CNuH1OIP

    There is some weird stuff out there. It can be done. I think what is most likely to exist in the future, when The Law of One Wikipedia article is eventually remade, are simply more grounded spirituality books that cover the ethics of The Law of One.

    All that is really needed is material that gives practical interpretations of The LOO like how some cover the Buddhist traditions.

      •
    reeay Away

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    #62
    06-14-2014, 10:17 PM
    (06-14-2014, 09:49 PM)Adonai One Wrote: https://docs.google.com/a/vervex.ca/file...y=CNuH1OIP

    There is some weird stuff out there. It can done. I think what is most likely to exist in the future, when The Law of One Wikipedia article is eventually remade, are simply more grounded spirituality books that cover the ethics of The Law of One.

    All that is really needed is material that gives practical interpretations of The LOO like how some cover the Buddhist traditions.

    If you're going to peer review something, it's by your peers who have noted expertise in the field - in the Buddhism case it's religious scholars. If it's new age material it could be any person claiming to know even without credibility or credentials. You gain credibility by publishing your 'scholarly work' in your scholarly community. In the case of the Ra Material, there are scholarly people in this community who have years of experience in studying the material. A scholar in religious studies would not be qualified to provide their 'expert' opinion unless they have been studying these materials and are acknowledged by others as having deep understanding of the Ra material.

    Take a look at someone like Manly P. Hall who was an 'uneducated' scholar who made masterful works about the occult without ever being in academia. His credibility was due to his dedication over many years, his presentations of his findings across the world. If there are scholars of the Ra Materials, you might want to consult with this community bc there are many here who have more years of study and deeper understanding than you or I.

    I have heard that you had edited the wiki page, not just deleting the resources section, but the actual write up that describes the Ra Material, prior to deletion.

    Really wondering why you did not consult with the 'peers' here in this community? They are the 'peers'. I think some are thinking, who is Immanuel Thoughtmaker (lol thought maker is a brainwashing device on Star Trek btw) to change the wiki entry as if he were an expert. Any fool can edit these pages. Buuut it's something else to go in there and make changes when there were people from this forum who had worked very hard to keep this page from being deleted back when this thread started. You went and took over based on your interpretations and your view of the Ra Material.
    [+] The following 9 members thanked thanked reeay for this post:9 members thanked reeay for this post
      • Adonai One, yossarian, isis, sunnysideup, βαθμιαίος, Parsons, xise, Steppingfeet, Ankh
    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #63
    06-14-2014, 10:20 PM (This post was last modified: 06-14-2014, 10:23 PM by Adonai One.)
    I am an expert and as far as I know nobody has a deeper understanding of The Law of One than I. I am qualified to discern what is reliable here.

    [Image: Troll-face-problem.jpg]

    I am sorry but with your view of authority in "scholarship," I really don't have much to discuss with you. I can't say I agree with your perspective here.

      •
    reeay Away

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    #64
    06-14-2014, 10:24 PM
    (06-14-2014, 10:20 PM)Adonai One Wrote: I am an expert and as far as I know nobody has a deeper understanding of The Law of One than I. I am qualified to discern what is reliable here.

    [Image: Troll-face-problem.jpg]
    Well then...

      •
    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #65
    06-14-2014, 10:32 PM (This post was last modified: 06-14-2014, 10:45 PM by Adonai One.)
    I have always found you very arbitrarily discriminatory, reeay. You have always judged me based on my age and it seems you judge other people conditionally based on how long they have spent doing something.

    I know of cultures that do this, especially Asian ones. They will give people promotions and rewards for spending more time at a workplace or more time at work in terms of daily hours. However, their work may be often very poor and yet they are elevated above potentially very young people who are just as good and potentially even more competent.

    I think age and length of experience is irrelevant. This is where we differ.

    In fact, I think to measure people by the length of experience is dangerous and leads to a type hierarchy based on BS and incompetent people who just sat on their ass and did nothing but hear themselves talk.

    I believe a boy can walk right out of the womb in 15 years and run empires competently. You do not. This is, again, where we differ.

    I don't care how old someone is or how long they have been doing something. I care about how their knowledge is actually applied. Does their stuff work? If it doesn't, then it is not in my arsenal of knowledge and wisdom.

    I think the concept of a "child" and "teen" and "young adult" should be eliminated. We are all human beings.

    I should note my first statement is mostly sarcastic. However, one thing is true: My knowledge of the Ra material is complete. I am an expert on The Law of One in my own school of thought and principles. Recognize my expertise as you wish.

      •
    xise (Offline)

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    #66
    06-14-2014, 11:32 PM (This post was last modified: 06-14-2014, 11:35 PM by xise.)
    Reeay has a point about not talking to peers on this forum.


    A1, you're a part of this forum. You're a big part of this forum. You've participated in this thread that discusses the state of the wikipedia page many months ago. A thread that makes it clear that many forum members want some sort of page and that they are against deletion/removal of the page.


    Yet you apparently get super-involved in the wikipedia page in the last month:
    -without publicly discussing it with your friends/peers here on the forum
    -removing 30+ sources twice (leaving 1) based on title, author, and subject matter (without reading them) though the admin told you that the page remain as is so everything can be discussed
    -and you don't let anyone here know that you're involved in the recent page drama until you are called out by βαθμιαίος.


    Something's definitely up. I'd bet good money that you're projecting a personal issue onto the Wikipedia page issue.
    [+] The following 4 members thanked thanked xise for this post:4 members thanked xise for this post
      • Adonai One, yossarian, Parsons, Ankh
    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #67
    06-14-2014, 11:47 PM (This post was last modified: 06-14-2014, 11:50 PM by Adonai One.)
    My views and interpretations of The Law of One on this forum are fringe and deliberately do not include various contrived perspectives on the material, especially the perspectives of most on this forum.

    In other words, I do not find myself in great resonance with the majority of this forum in its interpretation of The Law of One (or even its channeler and related parties, which fuels my belief in the material). I enjoy sharing my perspective in hopes we can reach a middle ground but nobody explains their views well enough to satisfy my curiosity in their perspective.

    With how things have been, I feel like I am more of a guest here than a member of this forum. I have been ostracized countless times with no real resolution in said scenarios, which I happily accept.

    I do not feel like family here. I feel like a tourist that attempts to communicate with the citizens here but cannot reach a consensus in culture.

    Thus I do my own thing on Wikipedia because I assume there will naturally be little to no resonance with what I do and believe in regards to this material.
    [+] The following 1 member thanked thanked Adonai One for this post:1 member thanked Adonai One for this post
      • xise
    vervex (Offline)

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    #68
    06-15-2014, 12:18 AM
    Just dropping by to propose an idea:

    Perhaps you, ladies and gentlemen present, could work together to clarify what a reliable source is according to Wikipedia and why the sources in the Law of One Wikipedia page may or may not have been reliable. Is there a definition of what a reliable source is? Reading this debate, I find that aspect to be unclear.

    Another interesting discussion which could take place is; what is, according to each of you, a "good" Wikipedia article? Again, according to you, which parts of the existing Law of One article are good and objective, and which parts need more work to reflect a quality article? Finally, what is your vision of a great article about the Law of One? What would it look like?

      •
    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #69
    06-15-2014, 12:20 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 12:20 AM by Adonai One.)
    Quote:What counts as a reliable source

    The word "source" in Wikipedia has three meanings:

    the type of the work (some examples include a document, an article, or a book)
    the creator of the work (for example, the writer)
    the publisher of the work (for example, Oxford University Press).

    All three can affect reliability.

    Base articles on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Source material must have been published, the definition of which for our purposes is "made available to the public in some form".[6] Unpublished materials are not considered reliable. Use sources that directly support the material presented in an article and are appropriate to the claims made. The appropriateness of any source depends on the context. The best sources have a professional structure in place for checking or analyzing facts, legal issues, evidence, and arguments. The greater the degree of scrutiny given to these issues, the more reliable the source. Be especially careful when sourcing content related to living people or medicine.

    If available, academic and peer-reviewed publications are usually the most reliable sources, such as in history, medicine, and science.

    Editors may also use material from reliable non-academic sources, particularly if it appears in respected mainstream publications. Other reliable sources include:

    university-level textbooks
    books published by respected publishing houses
    magazines
    journals
    mainstream newspapers.

    Editors may also use electronic media, subject to the same criteria. See details in Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources and Wikipedia:Search engine test.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability
    [+] The following 1 member thanked thanked Adonai One for this post:1 member thanked Adonai One for this post
      • vervex
    yossarian (Offline)

    Crazy if sane, but insane if not crazy.
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    #70
    06-15-2014, 12:22 AM (This post was last modified: 06-23-2014, 03:03 PM by Bring4th_Austin.)
    (06-14-2014, 10:20 PM)Adonai One Wrote: I am an expert and as far as I know nobody has a deeper understanding of The Law of One than I. I am qualified to discern what is reliable here.

    [Image: Troll-face-problem.jpg]

    I am sorry but with your view of authority in "scholarship," I really don't have much to discuss with you. I can't say I agree with your perspective here.

    Wait wait wait...

    HOLD UP!!

    YOU'RE Immanuel Thoughtmaker!?!?!?

    HAHAHAHAHAH AHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


    ...this is just too rich for words...

    Buddy! There is at least one academic who knows more about all of academia, wikipedia, and the LOO than you do. It's me, bro!

    You got the article deleted because wikipedia admins are all scientific materialist ideologues who don't read their own rules.

    "reliable source" is a technical term with a wikipedia-specific definition. It doesn't mean what YOU think is "reliable".

    "Peer-review" is an academic term with a specific academic definition. People like me are trained experts in peer-review, not you. I've published peer reviewed papers.

    *** You just vandalised the article and then a sloppy "deletionist" admin deleted it as a snap judgement, based entirely on his scientific materialist anti-New Age ideology.

    **** you haven't even read the [[WP:NBOOK]] page let alone all the wikipedia legislation as I have.

    Writing an article that explains what secondary written cultural activity says about the series of books is precisely the stated goal of wikipedia. This includes books like The Bible, Greek myths about Zeus, fiction like Harry Potter, movies like Star Trek, disproved theories like phrenology, books like The Law of One, and every book in between. Does Harry Potter have a reliable source to prove that Harry has a magic talking owl or that Hagrid is a giant? *****

    An article about a book that talks about what the book says and what other authors have written about the book is precisely what wikipedia considers a notable book for which a summary of contents is desired.

    Way to go *** in finding an admin on wikipedia who is sloppy enough, lazy enough, and biased enough to delete an article that you ruined by vandalizing it. Following your vandalism it was deleted, precisely because the admin was lazy. After he deleted it before checking the history, he decided to cover up his mistake to avoid censure by other admins. He literally went around and deleted all evidence of his own error and had me (who was calling him out) banned from the site by his ideological allies.

    You ruined the work of dozens and dozens of people who had dug up over 40 RELIABLE sources, according to WIKIPEDIA'S DEFINITION OF RELIABLE WHICH YOU HAVE CLEARLY NOT READ.

    Great job. Case in point in how ********** change the world. A textbook example of why letting amateurs edit encyclopedias is the ****ist idea ever. An encyclopedia is supposed to be, above all things, RELIABLE, and yet they let you edit it who literally doesn't know the definition of reliable.

    too good for words. I am speechless. I assumed we would be sold out by some atheist skeptic, but of course not!!! It had to be one of our own, a homegrown ******** *********!!!!

    OF FUCKING COURSE
    [+] The following 2 members thanked thanked yossarian for this post:2 members thanked yossarian for this post
      • isis, Ankh
    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #71
    06-15-2014, 12:26 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 12:32 AM by Adonai One.)
    Quote:Biased or opinionated sources

    Wikipedia articles are required to present a neutral point of view. However, reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints held on a subject.

    While a source may be biased, it may be reliable in the specific context. When dealing with a potentially biased source, editors should consider whether the source meets the normal requirements for reliable sources, such as editorial control and a reputation for fact-checking. Editors should also consider whether the bias makes it appropriate to use in-text attribution to the source, as in "Feminist Gloria Steinem wrote that...", "According the Marxist economist Harry Magdoff...," or "Conservative Republican presidential candidate Barry Goldwater believed that...".

    Common sources of bias include political, financial, religious, philosophical, or other beliefs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:...ed_sources

    The second paragraph was never met for purported factual statements.

    Additionally see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:QUESTIONABLE

    (06-15-2014, 12:22 AM)yossarian Wrote: ....

    I request this post not be deleted nor he be reprimanded for this post. I am quite content with its existence.
    [+] The following 2 members thanked thanked Adonai One for this post:2 members thanked Adonai One for this post
      • vervex, isis
    yossarian (Offline)

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    #72
    06-15-2014, 12:34 AM
    HEY SMARTYPANTS!

    REFUTE THIS!


    ====Critical analysis of references====

    ===== Is this Series of Books Notable under WP:NBOOK? =====

    As a series of books, this series of books can be evaluated under [[WP:NBOOK]]:

    {{Quote|A book is generally notable if it verifiably meets through reliable sources, '''one''' or more of the following criteria:||}}

    {{Quote|1. The book has been the subject of '''multiple''', '''non-trivial''' published works whose '''sources are independent''' of the book itself. This includes published '''works in all forms''', such as newspaper articles, '''other books''', television documentaries and reviews. '''Some''' of these works should contain sufficient critical commentary to allow the article to grow past a simple plot summary. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book.|Wikipedia Notability Guideline 1|[[WP:NBOOK]]}}

    Since the notability requirement is for '''one or more'''<ref>[[WP:NBOOK]]</ref> of the criteria, satisfying section 1 would be sufficient to prove notability for this book. Therefore, I will start by proving that this series satisfies the first listed criterion.

    ===== Is This Series of Books Notable According to Criterion One? =====

    The test in question:

    {{Quote|[Has this series been] the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works whose sources are independent of the book itself?|Wikipedia Notability Guidelines|[[WP:NBOOK]]}}

    With only a little bit of investigation I found a number of books, magazine articles, blog articles, websites, and forums discussing this series.

    {{Quote|"Non-trivial" excludes personal websites, blogs, bulletin boards, Usenet posts, wikis and other media that are not themselves reliable. An analysis of the manner of treatment is crucial as well; Slashdot.org for example is reliable, but postings to that site by members of the public on a subject do not share the site's imprimatur.|Notability Guidelines|[[WP:NBOOK]]}}

    So excluding all the websites, blogs, bulletin boards, and wikis, we are left with a long list of magazines and books.

    {{Quote|Independent does not mean independent of the publishing industry, but only refers to those actually involved with the particular book.|Notability Guidelines|[[WP:NBOOK]]}}

    '''How many books and magazine sources are there (i.e. non-trivial) that are not written by those actually involved with the particular book (i.e. independent)?'''

    The answer is at least 17. There are ''seventeen (17)'' cited sources that count as ''non-trivial''<ref name="non-trivial">"Non-trivial" excludes personal websites, blogs, bulletin boards, Usenet posts, wikis and other media that are not themselves reliable. An analysis of the manner of treatment is crucial as well; Slashdot.org for example is reliable, but postings to that site by members of the public on a subject do not share the site's imprimatur. Be careful to check that the author, publisher, agent, vendor. etc. of a particular book are in no way interested in any third party source.</ref> and ''independent''<ref name="independent">Independent does not mean independent of the publishing industry, but only refers to those actually involved with the particular book.|Notability Guidelines</ref> and that discuss this series of books.

    Seventeen constitutes "multiple".

    Therefore, this list of seventeen sources meets the tests for:
    * Multiple
    * Non-trivial
    * Published
    * Independent

    What other standards must be met?

    {{Quote|'''Some''' of these works should contain sufficient critical commentary to allow the article to grow past a simple plot summary. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book.|Wikipedia Notability Guideline 1|[[WP:NBOOK]]}}

    '''How many of these seventeen (17) sources contain critical commentary that would allow the article to grow past a simple plot summary?'''

    The answer is: at least 7. I haven't yet tabulated all the critical activity surrounding this book, but at the very least there are seven (7) sources critically discussing this series of books. This standard for critical commentary is therefore '''met'''.

    Therefore, this list of seventeen sources meets the tests for:
    * Multiple
    * Non-trivial
    * Published
    * Independent
    * '''Some''' sources providing critical commentary.

    Since a series of books must only meet ONE criteria to be notable, and this series of books amply meets the first criteria listed at [[WP:NBOOK]], this series of books is notable.

    NOTE: Since only '''some''' of the sources must contain critical commentary, this does '''not''' exclude the non-critical sources from the test of notability. Uncritical sources '''still attest to notability''' and only '''some'''<ref name="Some">'''Some''' of these works should contain sufficient critical commentary to allow the article to grow past a simple plot summary. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book. --from [[WP:NBOOK]]</ref> of the seventeen (17) sources must provide critical commentary.

    ===== Incomplete list of the sources that meet the criteria necessary for establishing notability =====

    * Each of the sources below are independent, non-trivial, and published according to [[WP:NBOOK]]'s definition of these words. Some of these sources present critical commentary.

    # {{cite book
    | last = Lewis
    | first = James R
    | authorlink =
    | title = The Gods Have Landed: New Religions from Other Worlds
    | publisher =
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =
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    | pages =
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    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-0791423301
    | mr =
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    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Valerian
    | first = Valdamar
    | authorlink =
    | title =Matrix IV : The Equivideum (IV)
    | publisher = Leading Edge Research
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date = 1994
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | asin = B008OJ2T5I
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Greenfield
    | first = Allen
    | authorlink =
    | title =SECRET CIPHER of the UFOnauts
    | publisher =
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =
    | location =
    | pages =
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    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-1411667594
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Mandelker
    | first = Scott
    | authorlink =
    | title = From Elsewhere: Being E.T. in America
    | publisher = [[Citadel Press]]
    | date = 2000
    | isbn = 978-1559723046
    }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Wilcock
    | first = David
    | authorlink = David Wilcock
    | title = The Source Field Investigations: The Hidden Science and Lost Civilizations Behind the 2012 Prophecies
    | publisher =Plume
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =2012
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =0-525-95204-7
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Knight-Jadczyk
    | first = Laura
    | authorlink = List_of_modern_channelled_texts#Laura Knight-Jadczyk
    | title =The Secret History of the World and How to Get Out Alive
    | publisher =
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-1897244364
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Koven
    | first = Jean-Claude
    | authorlink =
    | title =Going Deeper
    | publisher = Prism House Press
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =2004
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =http://www.amazon.com/Going-Deeper-Make-Sense-Makes/dp/0972395458
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-0972395458
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Tyman
    | first =Stephen
    | authorlink =
    | title =A Fool's Phenomenology: Archetypes of Spiritual Evolution
    | publisher =
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =
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    | pages =
    | language =
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    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-0761833567
    | mr =
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    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Wicherink
    | first = Jan
    | authorlink =
    | title =Souls of Distortion Awakening: A convergence of science and spirituality
    | publisher = Piramidions
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =2008
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-90-813047-2-6
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Cook
    | first = Richard C
    | authorlink = Richard C. Cook
    | title =Return of the Aeons: The Planetary Spiritual Ascension
    | publisher =CreateSpace
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =2013
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =http://www.richardccook.com/
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-1479364268
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Gnosis
    | first =
    | authorlink =
    | title = The Inner Planes. A Journal of the Western Inner Traditions
    | publisher = Gnosis
    | series = Gnosis
    | volume = 36
    | edition =
    | date = 1995
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language = English
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Beachy
    | first = Marcia
    | authorlink =
    | title =This Divine Classroom: Earth School and the Psychology of the Soul
    | publisher =
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-1418482824
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Redfield
    | first = Dana
    | authorlink =
    | title =The ET-human link
    | publisher =
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-1571742056
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Free
    | first = Wynn
    | authorlink =
    | title = The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?
    | publisher = Frog Books
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date = 2004
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =English
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-1583940839
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Schlemmer
    | first = Phyllis
    | authorlink =
    | title = The Only Planet of Choice: Essential Briefings from Deep Space
    | publisher = Gateway Books
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date = 1994
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn = 1858600235
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Bishop
    | first = Kitty
    | authorlink =
    | title = The Tao of Mermaids: Unlocking the Universal Code With the Angels and Mermaids
    | publisher =
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-1452500645
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}
    # {{cite book
    | last = Mandelker
    | first = Scott
    | authorlink =
    | title =Universal Vision: Soul Evolution and the Cosmic Plan
    | publisher =
    | series =
    | volume =
    | edition =
    | date =
    | location =
    | pages =
    | language =
    | url =
    | doi =
    | id =
    | isbn =978-0970198501
    | mr =
    | zbl =
    | jfm = }}

    [[User:Bilbobagginsesprecious|Bilbobagginsesprecious]] ([[User talk:Bilbobagginsesprecious|talk]]) 21:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)<small>— [[User:Bilbobagginsesprecious|Bilbobagginsesprecious]] ([[User talk:Bilbobagginsesprecious|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bilbobagginsesprecious|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
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      • isis, Ankh
    Adonai One (Offline)

    Married to The Universe in its Entirety
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    #73
    06-15-2014, 12:36 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 12:36 AM by Adonai One.)
    These published works are arguably trivial.
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      • isis
    yossarian (Offline)

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    #74
    06-15-2014, 12:38 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 12:39 AM by yossarian.)
    (06-15-2014, 12:26 AM)Adonai One Wrote:
    Quote:Biased or opinionated sources

    Wikipedia articles are required to present a neutral point of view. However, reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints held on a subject.

    While a source may be biased, it may be reliable in the specific context. When dealing with a potentially biased source, editors should consider whether the source meets the normal requirements for reliable sources, such as editorial control and a reputation for fact-checking. Editors should also consider whether the bias makes it appropriate to use in-text attribution to the source, as in "Feminist Gloria Steinem wrote that...", "According the Marxist economist Harry Magdoff...," or "Conservative Republican presidential candidate Barry Goldwater believed that...".

    Common sources of bias include political, financial, religious, philosophical, or other beliefs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:...ed_sources

    The second paragraph was never met for purported factual statements.

    Additionally see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:QUESTIONABLE


    GROAN

    It's not a scientific test of "fact" you *****.

    You can't apply scientific tests of fact to humanities. When they talk about "fact" they refer to "textual fact". For instance, "It is a fact that the Bible tells a story about Jesus."

    Literature or sacred texts don't have to substantiate their claims with scientific tests.

    I'm arguing with a 12 year old aren't I?

    (06-15-2014, 12:36 AM)Adonai One Wrote: These published works are arguably trivial.

    1. YOU DIDN'T MAKE THAT ARGUMENT, DID YOU? I WONDER WHY NOT.

    2. They are NOT TRIVIAL ACCORDING TO WIKIPEDIA'S DEFINITION OF TRIVIAL WHICH WAS JUST QUOTED TO YOU ABOVE YOU *****!
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      • isis, Ankh
    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #75
    06-15-2014, 12:41 AM
    If the article listed subjective interpretations of the books as opinions and not as fact, I would consider the article tolerable in its existence and not misleading. That is what I meant.
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      • isis
    yossarian (Offline)

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    #76
    06-15-2014, 12:41 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 12:43 AM by yossarian.)
    {{Quote|"Non-trivial" excludes personal websites, blogs, bulletin boards, Usenet posts, wikis and other media that are not themselves reliable. An analysis of the manner of treatment is crucial as well; Slashdot.org for example is reliable, but postings to that site by members of the public on a subject do not share the site's imprimatur.|Notability Guidelines|[[WP:NBOOK]]}}

    WHERE DOES THIS DEFINITION SAY IT EXCLUDES NORMAL PUBLISHED BOOKS e.g. David Wilcock's New York Times bestseller?!>?!?>!?!?!!??!?!


    YOU *****!

    (06-15-2014, 12:41 AM)Adonai One Wrote: If the article listed subjective interpretations of the books as opinions and not as fact, I would consider the article tolerable in its existence and not misleading. That is what I meant.

    TEXTUAL

    MOTHERFUCKING

    FACTS

    NOT SCIENTIFIC FACTS. THE ARTICLE IS ABOUT WHAT THE BOOK SAYS JUST LIKE HOW THE ARTICLE ON THE BIBLE TALKS ABOUT JESUS DOING MIRACLES. IT'S NOT AN OPINION THAT JESUS IN THE BIBLE PERFORMED MIRACLES. IT'S A TEXTUAL MOTHERFUCKING FACT.
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      • isis
    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #77
    06-15-2014, 12:44 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 12:46 AM by Adonai One.)
    The definition is prescriptive, not absolute. Anybody can publish a book nowadays. Some of these books are clearly mediocre and one can argue reliable sources overcedes this clearly.

    Remember WP:NORULES. Common sense is in play here.

    Also:

    "A book is generally notable if it verifiably meets, through reliable sources, one or more of the following criteria."

    Also, again, I request this man not be moderated at all.
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      • isis
    yossarian (Offline)

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    #78
    06-15-2014, 12:49 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 12:50 AM by yossarian.)
    YOU JUST CITED [[WP:NORULES]] TO BACK UP YOUR DELETION ARGUMENT!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!??!


    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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      • Adonai One, isis
    isis (Offline)

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    #79
    06-15-2014, 12:57 AM
    [Image: c4f15d9c579f1379f42805a859a5ecab.gif]
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      • yossarian, Adonai One, anagogy, reeay, vervex, sunnysideup, Parsons
    yossarian (Offline)

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    #80
    06-15-2014, 01:05 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 01:11 AM by yossarian.)
    It's been great. I love you all.

    I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on an elite education from top-30-in-the-world universities, publish peer reviewed articles in academic journals on literature, philosophy, and psychology, read the LOO books over and over, poured over citations and so on submitted by dozens of people, been on bring4th since 2009, and all of that counts for nothing because THIS GUY says he doesn't approveof the source list.

    Nevermind that he hasn't read a single book on 40+ item source list!!!

    Nevermind that he doesn't know the wikipedia-specific defintions of anything!!!!

    STOP THE PRESSES EVERYONE. ADONAI ONE DOES NOT APPROVE!!!!

    Fucking hell. Never seen so many god complexes on one website. Between Bring4th and Wikipedia the messiah has definitely come and gone. About a thousand times over. WOW.
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      • isis, sunnysideup, Parsons, Ankh
    xise (Offline)

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    #81
    06-15-2014, 01:08 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 01:12 AM by xise.)
    Yossarian, can you edit the spammed "HA HA" out of your posts please? I know you are frustrated but they are super hard to read when half the page is taken up by spam.


    It does seem that The Law of One material fits the reliability definitions for books "The book has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to a significant motion picture, or other art form, or event or political or religious movement."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:N...ty_(books):


    Reliability is in the context of the matter discussed. Many of the sources cited seem to be reliable sources with regards to claiming that LOO had a significant contribution to channeling/new age spirituality (IE Gnosis Magazine article, a magazine that was published over a decade specializing in western esotericism - I think that's a reliable source of information concerning contributions to modern spirituality).

    If you disagree, who or what would you claim to be a reliable source concerning contributions to the channeling, new age, or otherwise modern spirituality movement? Are there any reliable sources of information in your mind for determining what books have affected the modern spiritual movement?
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      • yossarian, Adonai One, isis, vervex, Parsons
    yossarian (Offline)

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    #82
    06-15-2014, 01:15 AM
    (06-15-2014, 01:08 AM)xise Wrote: Yossarian, can you edit the spammed "HA HA" out of your posts please? I know you are frustrated but they are super hard to read when half the page is taken up by spam.


    It does seem that The Law of One material fits the reliability definitions for books "The book has been considered by reliable sources to have made a significant contribution to a significant motion picture, or other art form, or event or political or religious movement."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:N...ty_(books):


    Reliability is in the context of the matter discussed. Many of the sources cited seem to be reliable sources with regards to claiming that LOO had a significant contribution to channeling/new age spirituality (IE Gnosis Magazine article, a magazine that was published over a decade specializing in western esotericism - I think that's a reliable source of information concerning contributions to modern spirituality).

    If you disagree, who or what would you claim to be a reliable source concerning contributions to the channeling, new age, or otherwise modern spirituality movement? Are there any reliable sources of information for determining what books have affected the modern spiritual movement?

    xise, you are right of course. But I beg you not to waste your life on it. My hundreds of hours of work have just been deleted by the combination of a psychotic teenager and a lazy ideological admin.

    There is absolutely NO doubt that the article met the criteria for inclusion. There is no doubt at all. But THIS GUY found a way to get it deleted anyway through a combination of luck, vandalism, and the fact that wikipedia admins hate New Age books.

    This discussion is no longer about the wikipedia article (it has been deleted)--all that is left to us is comedy.

    SO LAUGH. HAHGAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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      • isis, Ankh
    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #83
    06-15-2014, 01:19 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 01:23 AM by Adonai One.)
    I hesitantly approve of Gnosis but sure, why not. The coverage still does not make for a brilliant nor truly accurate article. I am still suspicious of the guys views on channeling. He believes most channeled material is wrong, which is reasonable but it has contorted his overview a bit, in my view. It's a slanted overview and that's my main contention with that article but it's arguable.

    My main problem is the sources enabling the article to be objective, not just notable. It can be argued the book is notable enough but can an article be made that is truly objective from the sources given?

    I have no propositions for sources. I am open to any manner of publication as long as its objective. If it's not, then people need to write the article stating the information is OP-ED.
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      • isis, vervex
    yossarian (Offline)

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    #84
    06-15-2014, 01:22 AM
    YOUR SUSPICION DOES NOT MATTER

    THERE ARE OBJECTIVE CRITERIA FOR INCLUSIVE AND YOUR OPINION DOES NOT COUNT. THE 40+ ITEMS ON THE SOURCE LIST ARE OBJECTIVELY "RELIABLE" ACCORDING TO THE OBJECTIVE CRITERIA, CRITERIA WHICH [[WP:NORULES]] DOES NOT OVERTURN. [[WP:NORULES]] IS NEVER CITABLE AS AN ARGUMENT FOR DELETION, EVER!!!!!!

    EVER

    keep proving just how little you know about this. it makes the irony of you getting it deleted all the more hilarious
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    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #85
    06-15-2014, 01:24 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 01:25 AM by Adonai One.)
    Wikipedia demands that everything be written neutrally. If information is opinion-based in nature and source, it needs to be disclaimed as such.
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    yossarian (Offline)

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    #86
    06-15-2014, 01:26 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 01:30 AM by yossarian.)
    "I have no propositions for sources. I am open to any manner of publication as long as its objective. If it's not, then people need to write the article stating the information is OP-ED."

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN OP-ED ON WIKIPEDIA. YOU KNOW NOTHING. NOTHING

    YOU MIGHT AS WELL DEMAND THAT THE BIBLE BE LABELED OP-ED

    (06-15-2014, 01:24 AM)Adonai One Wrote: Wikipedia demands that everything be written neutrally. If information is opinion-based in nature and source, it needs to be disclaimed as such.

    NO IT DOESN'T. THAT'S NOW HOW IT WORKS. DISCLAIMERS ARE FOR SCIENCE ARTICLES AND ARE WHOLLY UNNECESSARY IN THE HUMANITIES BECAUSE ALL CLAIMS ARE CITED AS TEXTUAL FACTS, THAT CITE EITHER SECONDARY SOURCES OR THE ORIGINAL SOURCE. ENCYCLOPEDIAS ONLY USE DISCLAIMERS IF THEY ARE QUOTING OR PARAPHRASING THE DISCLAIMERS MADE BY SECONDARY LITERATURE.

    IF YOU EVER GO TO COLLEGE YOU MAY LEARN. PROBABLY NOT.
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    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #87
    06-15-2014, 01:32 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 01:33 AM by Adonai One.)
    This article is a giant paraphrase. It's not horrendous yet but it's a few clicks away. That's what I am trying to prevent: A new age, 420, open up your indigo-ray festival on this article.
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    yossarian (Offline)

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    #88
    06-15-2014, 01:35 AM
    (06-15-2014, 01:32 AM)Adonai One Wrote: This article is a giant paraphrase. It's not horrendous yet but it's a few clicks away. That's what I am trying to prevent: A new age, 420, open up your indigo-ray festival on this article.

    ALL ARTICLES ON WIKIPEDIA ARE PARAPHRASES. THIS IS THE PURPOSE OF WIKIPEDIA.
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    Adonai One (Offline)

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    #89
    06-15-2014, 01:38 AM
    And that is why it's important those paraphrases are based on solid sources so the paraphrasing doesn't take extreme liberties in language and interpretation.
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    yossarian (Offline)

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    #90
    06-15-2014, 01:40 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2014, 01:40 AM by yossarian.)
    (06-15-2014, 01:38 AM)Adonai One Wrote: And that is why it's important those paraphrases are based on solid sources so the paraphrasing doesn't take extreme liberties in language and interpretation.

    WHICH IS PRECISELY WHY THERE WERE OVER 40 SOURCES THAT WERE BEING CITED YOU ******* *****!

    O

    M

    F

    G
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