Seeking comments from those knowledgable on Qabalah

[volicon]

I've decided to work on the 3 systems that Ra recommends for self-understanding (Qabalah, Tarot, Astrology). For the last few days I was researching the Qabala, along with The Law of One sessions. There is one problem that I have regarding The Tree of Life, so anyone with knowledge on Qabalah commenting is greatly appreciated!

What I get from The Law of One is that after Choice (3rd density) comes Understanding/Love (4th density) and Wisdom/Light (5th density). And studying the Tree of Life, and the concept of the Lightning Flash, what I understand is that Kether progresses to Chokmah and then to Binah. And as I understand, Kether is pure Beingness, Chokmah is Wisdom, and Binah is Understanding. The Lightning Flash starts at Kether/Beingness (1), then comes to Chokmah/Wisdom (2), and then Binah/Understanding (3), then similarly down the Tree.

So basically:
- The Law of One: Choice -> Understanding (Love) -> Wisdom (Light)
- The Lightning Flash: Beingness (Choice?) (Kether) -> Wisdom (Chokmah) -> Understanding (Binah).

Soooooo.... that's where my confusion in reflecting LOO on Qabalah is. After Choice, is it Understanding and then Wisdom, or Wisdom and then Understanding? Is there such a thing as the Lightning Flash starting at Binah first? Though since Chokmah is numbered 2 and Binah 3, I don't think that's possible.

I'm having a headache after the entire afternoon and evening reading LOO, so although I believe what I typed above is coherent, I may have communicated not clearly enough. I wanted to get this question posted before retiring to bed, or I will spend a majority of the night being restless, so if there are anything unclear, please do say! Any help is greatly appreciated!

[zenmaster]

Those are 3D systems. Why are you trying to introduce higher densities?

[spero]

ra specifically correlates malukuth with red ray

"The first balancing is of the Malkuth, or Earth, vibratory energy complex, called the red-ray complex.

I think it also seems kinda obvious that the pair of Gevurah-"Severity, power judgment" and Chesed-"Kindness, love" are analogous to 4th density and the different paths taken by STS and STO.

Similarly the pair Binah-"Understanding" and Chokhmah-"Wisdom" seem analogous of 5th density experience with cleverness or Understanding being valued by STS, compared to wisdom which i would equate more with STO lessons in 5D.

Since each density has a true colour body which correlate to a particular chakra, and since Ra already draws parallels between malkuth and red ray, i dont think its unreasonable to assume the other sephirot have some relationship to chakras, true colour bodies, and/or higher densities.

[zenmaster]

Since each density has a true colour body which correlate to a particular chakra, and since Ra already draws parallels between malkuth and red ray, i dont think its unreasonable to assume the other sephirot have some relationship to chakras, true colour bodies, and/or higher densities.

They are not related to higher densities because they are describing a 3rd density system. "True color" refers to the vibration of a density. In 3D, the bodies here are "subtle" due to activation in time/space being derived from yellow-ray "true color" (unless there is local space/time 4D true color activation).
3D green-ray active "loving" is a shadow of 4D true-color "loving" - there is no core vibration of the higher density with its transcendent thought processes involved.

Red-ray is just that, the red ray as seen in 3D. Same with all of the other rays due to necessity of 3D mind and body. We don't have experiences with true-color bodies beyond yellow. Lacking that experience, what then is the meaningful consideration besides fantasy?

[Bring4th_Austin]

I always felt that Ra's description of the macrocosmic progression through densities could be useful in a microcosmic view of our progression through the sub-densities of 3rd density, or a sort of correlation to working with the chakras. It might be a bit of a conflation to approach these ideas as literal higher densities but I think that finding correlations and testing out ideas can be useful.

[zenmaster]

We lack experiential knowledge from a higher density in any form - space/time or time/space. That is not of the path we are walking. We do have direct experiential knowledge of the subtle bodies, however, and these are indeed correlated with developmental conditions here. Why fool yourself with something with which you are incapable of consciously appreciating to any degree, when you have a resource of actual learning furnished by this mind and body?

[spero]

I concede I was probably a little too literal in trying to match the sephirot to the densities. I still think there is a connection between chakras and the sephirot which can then be extrapolated to the true color densities. I probably put the cart before the horse though by working backwards from densities to chakra instead of vice versa.

[zenmaster]

I still think there is a connection between chakras and the sephirot which can then be extrapolated to the true color densities.

what is this connection and extrapolation and how may it be useful?

[Bring4th_Austin]

We lack experiential knowledge from a higher density in any form - space/time or time/space. That is not of the path we are walking. We do have direct experiential knowledge of the subtle bodies, however, and these are indeed correlated with developmental conditions here. Why fool yourself with something with which you are incapable of consciously appreciating to any degree, when you have a resource of actual learning furnished by this mind and body?

I'd say it's most useful done under the pretense that any direct experiential knowledge is of our current density and that understanding of other densities is simply a macrocosmic projection of the microcosm we exist in now.

You're right it would be silly to fool ourselves with something we are incapable of consciously appreciating, but we are capable of appreciating Ra's description of the densities and how we relate to that, and how that relates to our current situation. That's more than enough to make discussing higher densities useful for me, even if there is unconscious conflation and projection going on.

[spero]

I still think there is a connection between chakras and the sephirot which can then be extrapolated to the true color densities.

what is this connection and extrapolation and how may it be useful?

if 3d experience had no bearing on higher density work then there would be no need for wanderers to incarnate into 3d environments to "make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfectly balanced" especially as it applies to balancing compassion and wisdom. it might therefore be valauble for some individuals to relate 3d experience to the requirements of higher density work. maybe my explanantion is a little vague and hand wavy to be useful. I dont think many would deny a relationship is present between a sub density and its corresponding true colour density even if its a pale shadow. Though perhaps you're right to question its utility in everyday experience.

[zenmaster]

I still think there is a connection between chakras and the sephirot which can then be extrapolated to the true color densities.

what is this connection and extrapolation and how may it be useful?

if 3d experience had no bearing on higher density work then there would be no need for wanderers to incarnate into 3d environments to "make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfectly balanced" especially as it applies to balancing compassion and wisdom. it might therefore be valauble for some individuals to relate 3d experience to the requirements of higher density work. maybe my explanantion is a little vague and hand wavy to be useful. I dont think many would deny a relationship is present between a sub density and its corresponding true colour density even if its a pale shadow. Though perhaps you're right to question its utility in everyday experience.

I was actually asking for your understanding of the connection and extrapolation that you are positing.

[volicon]

Guys! Much love to the replies! I'm glad I had started a quite lovely and lively discussion - now I can talk about something I'm interested in!

There is one thing that I want to make clear, though. It seems like my original post, by containing the references to the densities, have made it the central point of my question. It is not. I'm not interested in densities just yet.

My point is this: the sequence of evolution as described by Ra, to my understanding, seems to say that after the Choice, there comes the work on Understanding. After Understanding is mastered, there is then the work on Wisdom. After the work on Wisdom, there is the balancing work on both Understanding and Wisdom.

Meanwhile, the sequence of evolution as described by the Lightning Flash of the Qabala's Tree of Life, to my understanding, seems to say that after the Choice, there is first Wisdom, and after that, Understanding.

TL;DR:
Ra: Choice -> Understanding -> Wisdom
Qabalah: Choice -> Wisdom -> Understanding.
Which is it?

That's my question. I'm not interested in the densities. I'm interested in the sequence of evolution. Wisdom first or Understanding first?

[Unbound]

In Kabbalah the progression downwards is from Kether to Chokhmah to Binah, so Wisdom and then Understanding.

It can be seen that the Wisdom of the One is then emanated as the Understanding of the One. However, in order to go upwards to the One, one must first grasp understanding and therefrom is Wisdom ordained.

I would recommend a look at this and the next three chapters (all available on this site) of The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta27.htm

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So, as a human journeying to the One, you go from Understanding to Wisdom, but from the One down to a human it goes Wisdom to Understanding.

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You might also find use in this as it draws a comparison between Western Kabbalah and Hebrew Kabbalah.

http://www.jwmt.org/v1n3/32paths.html

[volicon]

Aaaaaaahhhhhhh that made sense. So it is a matter of downward or upward direction, whether you are talking about from Spirit to Manifestation or from Manifestation back to Spirit!

Thanks, Tanner!

[Unbound]

No problemo, mate!

[Unbound]

Also, if applying the system of sevens to the Tree of Life it may be useful to consider it in terms of the Archetypes as Ra did say it is a system for studying the archetypical mind. That is, each level and station may be considered in terms of the seven concepts that act as archetypes for mind/body/spirits.

[Adonai One]

Entities I've consulted from outside this planetary's culture of thinking have told me the kabbalah is an incomplete source of knowledge. I highly encourage a balanced study of all interpretations of this galaxy's archetypal mind.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Entities I've consulted from outside this planetary's culture of thinking have told me the kabbalah is an incomplete source of knowledge. I highly encourage a balanced study of all interpretations of this galaxy's archetypal mind.

Entities that Don Elkins consulted with from outside this planetary's culture of thinking recommended a slightly different approach:

76.9 Questioner: Is there, in Ra’s opinion, any present-day value for the reuse of the tarot as an aid in the evolutionary process?
Ra: I am Ra. We shall repeat information. It is appropriate to study one form of constructed and organized distortion of the archetypical mind in depth in order to arrive at the position of being able to become and to experience archetypes at will. You have three basic choices. You may choose astrology, the twelve signs, as you call these portions of your planet’s energy web, and what has been called the ten planets. You may choose the tarot with its twenty-two so-called Major Arcana. You may choose the study of the so-called Tree of Life with its ten Sephiroth and the twenty-two relationships between the stations.

It is well to investigate each discipline, not as a dilettante, but as one who seeks the touchstone, one who wishes to feel the pull of the magnet. One of these studies will be more attractive to the seeker. Let the seeker then investigate the archetypical mind using, basically, one of these three disciplines. After a period of study, the discipline mastered sufficiently, the seeker may then complete the more important step: that is, the moving beyond the written in order to express in an unique fashion its understanding, if you may again pardon the noun, of the archetypical mind.

[Jeremy]

Guys! Much love to the replies! I'm glad I had started a quite lovely and lively discussion - now I can talk about something I'm interested in!

There is one thing that I want to make clear, though. It seems like my original post, by containing the references to the densities, have made it the central point of my question. It is not. I'm not interested in densities just yet.

My point is this: the sequence of evolution as described by Ra, to my understanding, seems to say that after the Choice, there comes the work on Understanding. After Understanding is mastered, there is then the work on Wisdom. After the work on Wisdom, there is the balancing work on both Understanding and Wisdom.

Meanwhile, the sequence of evolution as described by the Lightning Flash of the Qabala's Tree of Life, to my understanding, seems to say that after the Choice, there is first Wisdom, and after that, Understanding.

TL;DR:
Ra: Choice -> Understanding -> Wisdom
Qabalah: Choice -> Wisdom -> Understanding.
Which is it?

That's my question. I'm not interested in the densities. I'm interested in the sequence of evolution. Wisdom first or Understanding first?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you've said but it doesn't matter which order they are in relative to 3d life which is what zenmaster was getting at. The order of evolution is directly relative to the density with which one resides. This means that 3d is only about Choice and nothing else because whether it be understanding or wisdom, attainment of either isn't possible within 3rd density because we lack the experiential data to completely comprehend the true meaning of these. Attempts at attaining either wisdom or understanding will always be limited within the confines of the 3d illusion.

[zenmaster]

Here there is a limit on awareness which limits what may be accepted, which limits ability to understand. The worldview is refined however as one accepts more and more of that which may be indicated as self within the illusion. That removal of distortion can be considered an increase in wisdom, if you correlate polarization with wisdom, as the less distorted viewpoint provides a less distorted way to interpret new experience.

[Adonai One]

Entities I've consulted from outside this planetary's culture of thinking have told me the kabbalah is an incomplete source of knowledge. I highly encourage a balanced study of all interpretations of this galaxy's archetypal mind.

Entities that Don Elkins consulted with from outside this planetary's culture of thinking recommended a slightly different approach:

...

In concious defiance of my family, I must say much has been veiled in The Ra Material.

[Unbound]

Entities I've consulted from outside this planetary's culture of thinking have told me the kabbalah is an incomplete source of knowledge. I highly encourage a balanced study of all interpretations of this galaxy's archetypal mind.

Entities that Don Elkins consulted with from outside this planetary's culture of thinking recommended a slightly different approach:

...

In concious defiance of my family, I must say much has been veiled in The Ra Material.

So you believe Ra has been misleading? Do you think Ra has blue ray blockages?

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I guess I just find it an amusing statement because of course there has been veiling in the Ra Material, because they are speaking through the veil.

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You just seem to have an attitude that Ra has only given "peanuts" but I actually think, and this is my own personal perception, that you may have somewhat distorted Ra's intention in your mind. I think you disagree with Ra only on a matter of technique, not on the heart.

Questioner: Thank you. Just a little point that was bothering me of no real importance.

Well, is there then, from the point of view of an individual who wishes to follow the service-to-others path from our present position in third density, is there anything of importance other than disciplines of personality, knowledge of self, and strengthening of will?

Ra: I am Ra. This is technique. This is not the heart. Let us examine the heart of evolution.

Let us remember that we are all one. This is the great learning/teaching. In this unity lies love. This is a great learn/teaching. In this unity lies light. This is the fundamental teaching of all planes of existence in materialization. Unity, love, light, and joy; this is the heart of evolution of the spirit.

The second-ranking lessons are learn/taught in meditation and in service. At some point the mind/body/spirit complex is so smoothly activated and balanced by these central thoughts or distortions that the techniques you have mentioned become quite significant. However, the universe, its mystery unbroken, is one. Always begin and end in the Creator, not in technique.

[Adonai One]

Ra will withhold information out of a perceived responsibility not to confuse people by contradicting and expanding on human beliefs that have been around for a long time, especially in regards to semantics.

Ra, unfortunately, did not account for readers venerating the material and its passages like an authoritative source and bible. It is my belief this is a distortion they would try to correct if they could, especially in passages they were intentionally vague in.

It is a mistake to take these words strictly as they are.

[Unbound]

You speak for Ra a lot and that is why I believe you have misread Ra's intentions. I disagree that Ra was unaware of these possibilities but rather it was seen as a fair risk for what could potentially be accomplished.

Also, that makes no sense, as I really feel Ra believes people have a natural right to confusion that is inherent in the way free will manifests in third density as the choice. That is why it is the Law of Confusion and why breaking the confusion results in free will infringement.

So, I am in agreement that yes, Ra includes confusion in their teaching methods. What is not useful, imo, is to infer that this is not intentional, but rather to see the purpose behind this veiling. Ra, I believe, is the living example of its own philsophy, as we all are. There is a purpose behind the veiling. I believe this actually relates to the true esoteric nature of the Ra Material. Look not at the exoteric teachings at face level, for you will surely be mislead and confused. Seek what is within.

Or don't, or do whatever you feel like, that is the beauty of free will.

[GentleReckoning]

We lack experiential knowledge from a higher density in any form - space/time or time/space. That is not of the path we are walking. We do have direct experiential knowledge of the subtle bodies, however, and these are indeed correlated with developmental conditions here. Why fool yourself with something with which you are incapable of consciously appreciating to any degree, when you have a resource of actual learning furnished by this mind and body?

Knowledge of higher density: Drugs, filtered through symbols ideas and concepts. Similar to dream states as far as recall is concerned.

Subtle bodies: Mental body beliefs expressing themselves through thought word and deed. Emotional body expressed through awareness of feeling. Physical body expression through simple plain, pleasure, or fight/flight.

[zenmaster]

Like I was saying, we lack experiential knowledge from a higher density in any form.

[Unbound]

Experiential meaning direct sensual experience?

[zenmaster]

Yes we don't vibrate at that level, and drugs only provide inner plane access - they don't allow your body or mind to transcend the core vibration.

[Unbound]

What does allow you transcend the core vibration?

[zenmaster]

What does allow you transcend the core vibration?

Ra calls it "harvest".