For those who have read LOO and Hidden Hand

[Guardian]

Given all the Egyptian symbolism shared by Luciferians and Ra (Obelisk, Pyramid, All seeing eye, etc), and given that they both claim to be 6D POSITIVE social-memory-complexes that evolved from venus, and given Ra's complete silence about the other 6D wanderers... is it possible that Ra and Lucifer are one in the same?

[indiGo33]

I guess answer is YES and NO

-They are same in the sense that ultimately we are ALL one. (Hidden_Hand himself mentions that despite being an STS).
-But different in a sense that they are part "social memory complexes" with Hidden_hand (unlike Ra) being from 'Soul group Lucifer' commonly associated with those of the Orion Group.

[hogey11]

Given all the Egyptian symbolism shared by Luciferians and Ra (Obelisk, Pyramid, All seeing eye, etc), and given that they both claim to be 6D social-memory-complexes that evolved from venus,

I wouldn't put it past any Orion entity to use imitation to distort and confuse the position of their opposition...

What better way to attract the seekers of your opponent than to assume their likeness? They did it to Yahweh.

[Tenet Nosce]

In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment but also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

We are not those of the Love or of the Light. We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.

Interesting that it is all the "lightworkers" who are calling for destruction and forceful removal of the "dark ones." I wonder what "loveworker" would call for?

[Unbound]

If we are all things, does that not mean Ra is also all things? If Ra has a greater awareness of themselves, perhaps Lucifer is one of the two members of Ra's social memory complex which negatively polarized and self-harvested?

[Spaced]

If we are all things, does that not mean Ra is also all things? If Ra has a greater awareness of themselves, perhaps Lucifer is one of the two members of Ra's social memory complex which negatively polarized and self-harvested?

I had a similar thought

Hidden Hand's teachings for the most part pass my internal resonance test. The stuff predicting destruction of cities etc. was off but I mean that's what some of the people at that forum wanted, predictions of shadowy events in the near future and naturally those sorts of predictions are dubious. I think that they make it very clear that because of their contract coming to this planet in order to provide catalyst for us to make the Choice they themselves must strive to attain graduation into 4D negative, but that they very much want us to graduate into 4D positive.

[reeay]

We are not those of the Love or of the Light. We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.

Interesting that it is all the "lightworkers" who are calling for destruction and forceful removal of the "dark ones." I wonder what "loveworker" would call for?

Maybe we need more love/light/light/loveworkers?

I wondered about the sentence "we are not those of love or of light." Assuming they mean Ra complex balanced love and light in 6D if they are of Law of One? So would Lucifer complex be 6D not balanced yet?

[Tenet Nosce]

In effect, the balancing allows an equal amount of positive and negative influx, this balanced by the mind/body/spirit distortions of the social complex. Thus in your particular planetary sphere, less negative, as you would call it, information or stimulus is necessary than positive due to the somewhat negative orientation of your social complex distortion.

Due to the increasing negative influences upon thinking and acting distortions, they were able to begin working with those whose impression from olden times, as you may say, was that they were special and different.

The potential between two negatively polarized entities is such that the entity which enslaves the other or bids the other gains in negative polarity.The entity so bidden or enslaved, in serving an other-self, will necessarily lose negative polarity although it will gain in desire for further negative polarization. This desire will then tend to create opportunities to regain negative polarity.

The calling mechanism is not congruent in the slightest degree with the bidding mechanism. In the calling, the entity which calls is a suppliant neophyte asking for aid in negative understanding, if you may excuse this misnomer. The Orion response increases its negative polarity as it is disseminating the negative philosophy, thereby enslaving or bidding the entity calling.

There are instances, however, when the contact becomes a contest which is prototypical of negativity. In this contest, the caller will attempt, not to ask for aid, but to demand results. Since the third-density negatively oriented harvestable entity has at its disposal an incarnative experiential nexus and since Orion Crusaders are, in a great extent, bound by the first distortion in order to progress, the Orion entity is vulnerable to such bidding if properly done. In this case, the third-density entity becomes master and the Orion Crusader becomes entrapped and can be bid. This is rare. However, when it has occurred, the Orion entity or social memory complex involved has experienced loss of negative polarity in proportion to the strength of the bidding third-density entity.

This contact is narrow band and its preconditions precise. The other-self offering its service in the negative path also is possessed of the skill of the swordsman. You deal in this contact with, shall we say, forces of great intensity poured into a vessel as delicate as a snowflake and as crystalline.The smallest of lapses may disturb the regularity of this pattern of energies which forms the channel for these transmission

The nature of the fourth-density’s observance of the free will distortion, while pursuing the seeding of the third-density thought patterns, is material which has already been covered. That which can be offered of the negatively oriented information is offered. It is altered to the extent that the entity receiving such negative information is of positive orientation. Thus many such contacts are of a mixed nature.

[Brittany]

I am not yet ready to offer my full opinion on this subject, but I will say I'm glad someone opened the gateway.

[Bring4th_Austin]

In this scenario, what would you suppose Ra's intent behind their contact would be? Would they have withheld this information for some reason? Would their accounts of graduating through the densities through STO be false?

Or rather, would you suppose that they were only offering part of the picture? And if so, why?

I am not yet ready to offer my full opinion on this subject, but I will say I'm glad someone opened the gateway.

Once you are ready, I'd love to hear your thoughts given your familiarity with the situation.

[Guardian]

Just for clarification. According to Hidden Hand:

1. Lucifer is a 6D positive social memory complex that has chosen to incarnate as 3D beings on Earth for a preset amount of time (most likely 25,000 years).

2. Lucifer is a STS soul group on earth, but only as required by the confederation to provide catalysts for harvest.

3. Lucifer is not associated with Orion. Lucifer wants people to harvest into 4d POSITIVE, Orion wants people to harvest to 4d NEGATIVE.

More info:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_societ...and_081018

[Brittany]

If you look only to the Ra Material and the Hidden Hand material in pondering this subject, the answers you receive will be cyclical. For a true answer, you need a different kind of book.

[βαθμιαίος]

If we are all things, does that not mean Ra is also all things? If Ra has a greater awareness of themselves, perhaps Lucifer is one of the two members of Ra's social memory complex which negatively polarized and self-harvested?

I didn't get the sense that those two were part of Ra. This quote could indicate that they moved on, possibly back to their own social memory complex, after they joined Ra for part of fourth density:

89.42 Questioner: How is Ra aware of this information? By what means does Ra know the precise orientation of these two entities in fourth-density negative, etc?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities joined Ra in fourth-density positive for a portion of the cycle which we experienced.

---

I wondered about the sentence "we are not those of love or of light."

I think it just means they are not fourth (love) or fifth (light) density.

[reeay]

It's interesting that there is a surge of post/interest/discussion on Lucifer, Hidden_Hands, illuminati, satanists, etc., in this forum at this time.

Older posts:
Hidden Hands

Luciferian Misconceptions

6th-Density Negatively Polarized Wanderers?

[Spaced]

It's interesting that there is a surge of post/interest/discussion on Lucifer, Hidden_Hands, illuminati, satanists, etc., in this forum at this time.

Older posts:
Hidden Hands

Luciferian Misconceptions

6th-Density Negatively Polarized Wanderers?

It's weird I've been thinking about the true nature of Lucifer, the illuminati, etc. for a few weeks now but every time I tried to start a thread I would get all mixed up and have a hard time saying what I wanted to and give up, so I'm glad other members of the forum have stepped up

[reeay]

It's weird I've been thinking about the true nature of Lucifer, the illuminati, etc. for a few weeks now but every time I tried to start a thread I would get all mixed up and have a hard time saying what I wanted to and give up, so I'm glad other members of the forum have stepped up

What led you to want to understand Lucifer/s true nature?

[Spaced]

It's weird I've been thinking about the true nature of Lucifer, the illuminati, etc. for a few weeks now but every time I tried to start a thread I would get all mixed up and have a hard time saying what I wanted to and give up, so I'm glad other members of the forum have stepped up

What led you to want to understand Lucifer/s true nature?

Seeing a connection between multiple mythological entities who share the same attributes as Lucifer: Thoth, Hermes, Apollo, Mithra, etc. and wondering what they have been trying to accomplish. It's interesting to look back and see the Mithraic cult of the late Roman empire slowly morph into the Knights Templar during the crusades and then the Freemasons. What have these secret societies been up to? It's a clear line going back thousands of years, what do they do exactly? Why all the secrecy? I find this topic very interesting.

[Aureus]

Upon going to bed last night I thought 'Lucifer', and immediately preceeding that I heard a tone in my left ear..

[βαθμιαίος]

Seeing a connection between multiple mythological entities who share the same attributes as Lucifer: Thoth, Hermes, Apollo, Mithra, etc. and wondering what they have been trying to accomplish. It's interesting to look back and see the Mithraic cult of the late Roman empire slowly morph into the Knights Templar during the crusades and then the Freemasons. What have these secret societies been up to? It's a clear line going back thousands of years, what do they do exactly? Why all the secrecy? I find this topic very interesting.

Have you read any Dion Fortune?

[Spaced]

Seeing a connection between multiple mythological entities who share the same attributes as Lucifer: Thoth, Hermes, Apollo, Mithra, etc. and wondering what they have been trying to accomplish. It's interesting to look back and see the Mithraic cult of the late Roman empire slowly morph into the Knights Templar during the crusades and then the Freemasons. What have these secret societies been up to? It's a clear line going back thousands of years, what do they do exactly? Why all the secrecy? I find this topic very interesting.

Have you read any Dion Fortune?

No, I have not. I'll check 'em out

[hogey11]

Mithraic cult of the late Roman empire

I also wonder how Paul from the bible fits into this, as he was the de facto 'leader' of the Mithraic religion before he 'converted' to Christianity. Considering the huge problems I have with Paul's theology, I consider him a good candidate for the 'false prophet' Jesus warned would shortly follow after him.

Tying Paul into the Knights Templar and the Freemasons is a novel idea indeed. I hadn't known the roots expanded that far back, but it definitely reinforces parts of my opinion. It seems to me that Lucifer is most gifted in bringing confusion and duality to things, which makes sense from a 'higher purpose' perspective as well...

Thanks for the info, Spaced! I'll look more into Dion Fortune as well, B (i can't spell ur name)

[βαθμιαίος]

Dion Fortune didn't write about secret societies per se, but she did have some insight, I think, into the goals and motives of participants in western occult fraternities. Basically, some positive, some negative; some petty, some magnanimous.

As to why the secrecy, I think to some extent it's because the rituals do have power and the fraternities think they don't want power in the wrong hands, although it's possible (likely?) that by "wrong" they mean "other than ours". It's also possible they're embarrassed because their rituals don't actually seem to work.

I think there's also an inheritance from earlier contacts with Ra and other outside sources that have been passed down "from mouth to ear" for many years (generations?). Presumably the teachings are, like Ra said about tantra, always half lost. I was surprised when reading a book by W.E. Butler when he mentioned "lands now lost," referring, I believe to Atlantis.

[XionComrade]

If we are all things, does that not mean Ra is also all things? If Ra has a greater awareness of themselves, perhaps Lucifer is one of the two members of Ra's social memory complex which negatively polarized and self-harvested?

If I am not mistaken it is possible that Lucifer is mythology at best. Not a actual character in the Bible originally. But the correlation is actually Pre-Christian.

But it is very interesting the emphasis always placed between Lucifer and the Light when you see that Ra referred to the Masters of Orion, the Old ones, the Emperors of the Empire, who are entirely on their own and in complete control of everything about them are 5th density, the Density of Light. Crap your pants full on that note!

I think it is important for us as a peoples to understand just how important the Darkness is for the Light though, for the pilgrims on their paths....alot of people stigmatize these dark and unpleasant creatures. Doesn't mean to do as they do and do what they say by any means, but if I am not mistaken it was Saint Teresa of Avila who made the observation that the general pattern for experiences with Spiritual entities was(for these extremely progressed mystics) to be visited by the Devil first, and then when the Devil was finished the polar opposite extremely ecstatic experiences with the Angels would follow eventually afterwards. Rinse and repeat. The Devil helps us just as much as the Angels do, if not more. the Devil points out areas of weakness/distortion to us and the Angels help us heal/fix/undistort them. The Devil knows he is helping you when he interacts with you, without doubt, and I think that is a very important thing to realize when having these extremely taxing experiences. It is all to our benefit.

[Spaced]

I think it is important for us as a peoples to understand just how important the Darkness is for the Light though, for the pilgrims on their paths....alot of people stigmatize these dark and unpleasant creatures. Doesn't mean to do as they do and do what they say by any means, but if I am not mistaken it was Saint Teresa of Avila who made the observation that the general pattern for experiences with Spiritual entities was(for these extremely progressed mystics) to be visited by the Devil first, and then when the Devil was finished the polar opposite extremely ecstatic experiences with the Angels would follow eventually afterwards. Rinse and repeat. The Devil helps us just as much as the Angels do, if not more. the Devil points out areas of weakness/distortion to us and the Angels help us heal/fix/undistort them. The Devil knows he is helping you when he interacts with you, without doubt, and I think that is a very important thing to realize when having these extremely taxing experiences. It is all to our benefit.

To put it another way, we need darkness for the light to expand into.

[Daydreamin]

If you look only to the Ra Material and the Hidden Hand material in pondering this subject, the answers you receive will be cyclical. For a true answer, you need a different kind of book.

Well then I would throw some channelings from the Pleiadians. Books by Barbara Marciniak


Something about the Pleiades channeling really really resonates with me.

---

If we are all things, does that not mean Ra is also all things? If Ra has a greater awareness of themselves, perhaps Lucifer is one of the two members of Ra's social memory complex which negatively polarized and self-harvested?

I had a similar thought

Hidden Hand's teachings for the most part pass my internal resonance test. The stuff predicting destruction of cities etc. was off but I mean that's what some of the people at that forum wanted, predictions of shadowy events in the near future and naturally those sorts of predictions are dubious. I think that they make it very clear that because of their contract coming to this planet in order to provide catalyst for us to make the Choice they themselves must strive to attain graduation into 4D negative, but that they very much want us to graduate into 4D positive.

Well, 'if' We all were really back 'Home' and decided to 'play' a Game of Duality then some of Us would have to 'play the bad guy' right?


I may be off but there is something about the Hidden Hand that resonates with me. In a good way I might add. I mean I 'feel' less 'fear' from reading the Hidden Hand then listening to an Alex Jones show or David Icke.

I sure do wish Mr. Hidden Hand would come back around for another Q & A.