Dangling Threads in LOO series

[Monica]

Ra says that those who were destroyed by the energy release found their spirit complexes "to be completely disarranged without possibility of re-integration."

To me, that doesn't sound like the loss of just one lifetime's experiences.

When Don asks if the fact that Ra is able to reintegrate souls who die by nuclear energy release makes it no more traumatic than death by a bullet, Ra says no, it would be more traumatic. But the entity would remain an entity.

I read that to mean that absent Ra's reintegration of the destroyed spirit complex, the entity would no longer be an entity.

In a like vein, Ra says that some of our weapons "redound to the last echoes of potential destruction."

Hi βαθμιαίος (I could use some help with the pronunciation here),

I'm not really sure if there's anything to disagree about. I never meant to imply that it wasn't a serious issue. Indeed, I agree that Ra indicated that without their help the spirit complexes would have been disintegrated.

There is, as is frequently the case with Ra, some room for interpretation of what exactly he meant by the phrase "unique vibratory complex you have called the spirit complex, which we understand as a mind/body/spirit complex" when he refers to what was "completely disarranged" by the blast. To me, this is addressing the spirit complex that is a portion of the Higher Self and is tied into the unique 3D mind/body of that incarnation. This gets into an entirely different discussion about the relationship between the Higher Self, or ageless spirit and the "spirit" of an incarnational instance of the Higher Self. Some people believe that they are one in the same, I am of the opinion that there are a number of spirits, simultaneously at various levels of spiritual evolution distinct from the spirit of the 3D mind/body/spirit complex and the Higher self. Distinct from, yet wholely conatined in the Higher Self. (Sorry, if this is getting rather esoteric).

As a simple example of why I feel this way, I find it absolutely incomprehensible that the Higher Self would be remotely affected by it's 3D incarnation's proximity to a nuclear bomb. Thus, we are left with the question "what is the 'spirit' portion of the 3D mind/body/spirit complex that would have been disintegrated"? I bellieve that it is just that, a spirit fragment or holographic instance of that portion of the Higher Self that is appropriate for the incarnation. Hence my analogy to losing all the work of a single semester in college if that spirit is disintegrated. On another level, it's a moot question since we do have those of the Confederation and Ra looking out for us, just in case our worldly leaders get too aggresive with the Bomb or some other human made application of Intellegent Energy.

I would be delighted, however, to continue this in it's own thread if you'd like to have further dialog.

All the best,

3D sunset

3D, I agree totally! Excellent explanation!

A few additional comments:

1. For something to be 'disarranged' implies that it still exists...just in a different form. If it were annihilated, it seems that Ra would have used a term like 'destroyed' ...but Ra said 'disarranged.'

2. Just as we have work to do in our present incarnation, the entities of the higher densities serve the Creator in ways we cannot comprehend. It might sound kinda iffy to us "Oh wow, what if they miss? Our souls could get destroyed?" but I think we should remember that entities who are millions of years more advanced than us might consider the catching of a spirit complex and reintegrating it to be child's play. Important work, but not likely something they will fail at. I really think we can trust that our spirit complexes are in good hands, should such a disaster ever occur.

3. Ra indicated that losing a spirit complex would be losing a part of the Creator, and the Creator doesn't want that. As a dear Christian friend of mine so eloguently stated, "What God wants, God gets." 3D vehicles seem to be of little consequence, but we're talking about the spirit complex here!! Ra, in the service of the One Infinite Creator, is not going to let something so valuable be lost just because some wacked-out STS entities pushed the button. I agree that it's irrelevant as to whether they would have been lost without Ra's intervention; the point is that they WEREN'T lost and would not be lost were it to happen again.

4. A nuclear blast is apparently not the only thing that can mess up a spirit complex. Remember, Hitler's soul got rearranged, due to his extreme confusion and intense mixture of polarity...a good example of what can happen when the higher chakras are opened while bypassing the heart, in conjunction with some messed-up ideas and insanity. (As an aside, I wonder where that soul is now? Not a question Q'uo is likely to answer, that's for sure!)

[βαθμιαίος]

Hi βαθμιαίος (I could use some help with the pronunciation here),

It's funny, I seem to get that response a lot

βαθμιαίος
β = Beta = B
a = alpha = a
θ = theta = th
μ = mu = m
i = iota = i
a = alpha = a
i = iota = i
o = omicron = o
ς = sigma = s

So all together it's Bathmiaios, which means (I hope!) step by step.

As a simple example of why I feel this way, I find it absolutely incomprehensible that the Higher Self would be remotely affected by it's 3D incarnation's proximity to a nuclear bomb.

I see why you say that but I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Or perhaps I should say, let's agree that it's a dangling thread

---

1. For something to be 'disarranged' implies that it still exists...just in a different form. If it were annihilated, it seems that Ra would have used a term like 'destroyed' ...but Ra said 'disarranged.'

We must have been posting at the same time. I don't disagree with the substance of your comments, that we are in good hands and can trust the process. And I don't think you'll disagree that should nuclear war occur it would be quite traumatic.

I hope you won't think me quibbling if I point out that Ra did use the word "destroyed" when they referred to "those who were destroyed ... by the energy release."

Really, though, it's a moot point. Perhaps the entities would have ceased to exist or maybe just one incarnation's experiences would have been lost. Either way it's pretty bad and we can be grateful to Ra that they intervened, and we can also take their implied suggestion to "attempt feelings of love towards the planetary sphere and comfort and healing of the scars and the imbalances of these actions."

[βαθμιαίος]

There is, as is frequently the case with Ra, some room for interpretation of what exactly he meant by the phrase "unique vibratory complex you have called the spirit complex, which we understand as a mind/body/spirit complex" when he refers to what was "completely disarranged" by the blast. To me, this is addressing the spirit complex that is a portion of the Higher Self and is tied into the unique 3D mind/body of that incarnation. This gets into an entirely different discussion about the relationship between the Higher Self, or ageless spirit and the "spirit" of an incarnational instance of the Higher Self. Some people believe that they are one in the same, I am of the opinion that there are a number of spirits, simultaneously at various levels of spiritual evolution distinct from the spirit of the 3D mind/body/spirit complex and the Higher self. Distinct from, yet wholely conatined in the Higher Self. (Sorry, if this is getting rather esoteric).

As a simple example of why I feel this way, I find it absolutely incomprehensible that the Higher Self would be remotely affected by it's 3D incarnation's proximity to a nuclear bomb. Thus, we are left with the question "what is the 'spirit' portion of the 3D mind/body/spirit complex that would have been disintegrated"? I bellieve that it is just that, a spirit fragment or holographic instance of that portion of the Higher Self that is appropriate for the incarnation. Hence my analogy to losing all the work of a single semester in college if that spirit is disintegrated. On another level, it's a moot question since we do have those of the Confederation and Ra looking out for us, just in case our worldly leaders get too aggresive with the Bomb or some other human made application of Intellegent Energy.

I fully intended to let this discussion rest, because I'm fine with disagreeing. However, since I do love a good Law of One debate with knowledgeable participants, and since I had an interesting, relevant discussion last night...

I was talking with my son, who is thirteen and wise beyond his years, about this question and he said, basically, "well, the higher self is you in the future. So if you are destroyed now, you never become your higher self. It's like the time travel conundrum where you go into the past and kill your grandfather. Do you still exist?"

[3D Sunset]

It's funny, I seem to get that response a lot

βαθμιαίος
β = Beta = B
a = alpha = a
θ = theta = th
μ = mu = m
i = iota = i
a = alpha = a
i = iota = i
o = omicron = o
ς = sigma = s

So all together it's Bathmiaios, which means (I hope!) step by step.

Thanks for that. You may find it funny or perhaps candid, but I found myself pronouncing it "Bucolic".

I see why you say that but I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Or perhaps I should say, let's agree that it's a dangling thread

No need for agreement, or disagreement. We are all here to share, learn/teach and teach/learn. I am happy just to be a part of it. Also, please don't take any of my statements as being my view of Eternal truths. They are interpretations and I know they are subject to all the distortions of 3D existence. In reality, the most any of us can do is look into the mirror darkly, and I'm certain that even my most strongly held beliefs are but pale reflections of their associated Eternal truths.

Really, though, it's a moot point. Perhaps the entities would have ceased to exist or maybe just one incarnation's experiences would have been lost. Either way it's pretty bad and we can be grateful to Ra that they intervened, and we can also take their implied suggestion to "attempt feelings of love towards the planetary sphere and comfort and healing of the scars and the imbalances of these actions."

I agree completely, and feel that this is the ultimate lesson in the story.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[3D Sunset]

Remember, Hitler's soul got rearranged, due to his extreme confusion and intense mixture of polarity... (As an aside, I wonder where that soul is now? Not a question Q'uo is likely to answer, that's for sure!)

Ra, Book I, Session 11,

Questioner: Can you tell us what happened to Adolf (Hitler)?

Ra: I am Ra. The mind/body/spirit complex known as Adolf is at this time in an healing process in the middle astral planes of your spherical force field. This entity was greatly confused and, although aware of the circumstance of change in vibratory level associated with the cessation of the chemical body complex, nevertheless, needed a great deal of care.

Ask and ye shall receive,

3D Sunset

[Monica]

Ask and ye shall receive,

Oh yeah, I remember that now...I remembered he needed healing but had forgotten where he ended up. Thanks!

[βαθμιαίος]

sos posted an interesting question that I think qualifies as a dangling thread on the length of time for third density on various planets and whether it is tied to the precession of the equinoxes.

[βαθμιαίος]

Another dangling thread I'm curious about: Ra said that the one known as Lucifer can be seen as the true light-bringer. Is there actually a being named Lucifer, or is it instead a principle/idea/concept?

[Horizon]

Another dangling thread I'm curious about: Ra said that the one known as Lucifer can be seen as the true light-bringer. Is there actually a being named Lucifer, or is it instead a principle/idea/concept?

Hello B
If what I read posted in another UFO type forum, via a person who calls himself Helping Hand, he is associated with the memory group Lucifer. They claim to be persuing a negative harvest. He claimed that that they needed a negative harvest to offset their karma, and that they were one of the primary bloodlines at the capstone of the Illuminati bloodline. I believe he mentioned the Orion group there too.

L&L

[βαθμιαίος]

Yeah, I have some idea of what Hidden Hand says, but I'd be much more interested in what Ra had to say!

[Horizon]

Yeah, I have some idea of what Hidden Hand says, but I'd be much more interested in what Ra had to say!

I read the entire thread on that site, and it did coincide with many things I read in LOO, although I think HH was looking to rally support for 4D-. I am much more interested in what Ra says, yet I felt compelled to follow that thread.... just so that I could understand both sides. I'm still on Ra's side though

[3D Sunset]

Another dangling thread I'm curious about: Ra said that the one known as Lucifer can be seen as the true light-bringer. Is there actually a being named Lucifer, or is it instead a principle/idea/concept?

I believe that this quote addresses your question:

Ra, Book IV, Session 84

Questioner:...It occurs to me that many statues or drawings of the one known as Lucifer or the Devil are shown with an erection. Is this a function of orange-ray blockage, and was this known in a minimal way by those who devised these statues and drawings?

Ra: I am Ra. There is, of course, much other distortion involved in a discussion of any mythic archetypical form. However, we may answer in the affirmative and note that you are perceptive.

This is consistent with other non-Ra sources I've read through the years. In another sense, one could see Lucifer as the Logos who first conceived of the veil, since this is the source of STS polarization.

Food for thought,

3D Sunset

[βαθμιαίος]

Interesting. The mention of a mythic figure with an erection made me think of the Matrix of the Spirit. But of course there's no light in that image, only darkness. The light doesn't come until the Potentiator of the Spirit. Do you think the mythical figure in the Matrix can be said to bring the light by emphasizing its absence?

I googled Lucifer and ended up at the wikipedia page, which includes this fascinating tidbit: "In Latin, the word "Lucifer", meaning "Light-Bringer" (from lux, lucis, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring"), is a name for the "Morning Star" (the planet Venus in its dawn appearances)." So perhaps Ra themselves can be thought of as Luciferian (and I'm sure they are thought of that way by some.)

One last tidbit from the wikipedia page that's interesting for those of us who have a fondness for Greek: the Greek word for Lucifer is "Φωσφόρος" (phosphoros).

One thing I've never been clear on is whether Lucifer and Satan are supposed to be one entity or two. I have no problem thinking of Satan as evil. I believe the name comes from the Egyptian "Set". But it's hard to think of anyone whose name means light bringer as purely evil. (I hope that's not too blasphemous a thought for this forum.)

[3D Sunset]

One thing I've never been clear on is whether Lucifer and Satan are supposed to be one entity or two. I have no problem thinking of Satan as evil. I believe the name comes from the Egyptian "Set". But it's hard to think of anyone whose name means light bringer as purely evil. (I hope that's not too blasphemous a thought for this forum.)

Hi βαθμιαίος,

After some investigation, I would recommend this link http://www.s8int.com/lucifer.html as the best explanation I can find about the distinction between Satan and Lucifer in the King James Bible (KJB). Bottom line is that it concludes that they are two different entities, or better stated that there is only one reference to Lucifer in the KJB, and it is actually a reference to the morning star, Venus.

That said, I think that when Ra refers to Lucifer, he is referring to a composite of mythological characters throughout human history that were responsible for bringing "light" to the world including (to name but a few) Prometheus to the Greeks, Mahasura to the Hindus, and Loki to the Scandinavian. Indeed, every religion has its equivalent figure.

It is also interesting, I think, to note that there is no reference to Satan in any of the five books or 106 sessions of the Law of One, and Lucifer is mentioned only twice. I take this as some indication of the amount of human distortion Ra saw associated with the very concept of Satan.

From my own perspective, I see Satan as the human metaphor for "evil", which could only exist after the concept of good/evil were give to mankind as described in the biblical Garden of Eden story. So to me, you could say that it was Lucifer that gave the knowledge of good and evil (and hence our entire dualistic existence) to mankind. Once the duality existed, we have Satan to personify the evil, and various prophets (Daniel, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, etc.) to personify the good, with God overseeing them all.

And now for my blasphemy, I think that it is then our logos' STO bias, tinged with STS distortions that creates our perception that we need to "control" our "evil" side. In reality there is no good or evil, there is just the Infinite Creator experiencing himself, and we are all simply enthusiastic participants in that glorious dance. This is not to say that we should go out and wantonly perform "evil" acts. Certainly, we must not infringe on others' free will (or risk a loss in our own polarization and harvestability), and it is quite unlikely that many of us could forgive ourselves for causing harm to others even if we acted within their free will (thus creating karma that also binds us to 3D). Still, I do believe that is the underlying message from Ra about the equivalence between STS and STO. They are both sides of the same coin, with equal stature to the One Infinite Creator.

Enough rambling for now,

Love and Light(bearing),

3D Sunset

[paddy]

...Still, I do believe that is the underlying message from Ra about the equivalence between STS and STO. They are both sides of the same coin, with equal stature to the One Infinite Creator....

Maybe the equivalence suggested is like a junction at a crossroads where one has a blind choice to go left or a blind choice to go right. So being blind one makes a choice and goes in some direction. After a while it either works out with no need to change course, or else it doesn't work out with a need to turn around and go back to the crossroads in order to go the other way to make progress.

Another way to interpret the equivalence may be to consider one style as offering contrast to another style in order to better grasp the relativistic differences. So our experiences with the dysfunctional ways may allow us to better appreciate the functional ways when we experience them, as if we can't have one without the other.

A pattern from nature may apply, that of predator and prey. When the predator eats the prey, then the prey becomes the predator by assimilation which is an equivalence of sorts. As all the prey disappears, then the predators are left with nothing to eat but each other until the last one dies alone from starvation. Then the prey and predators are all gone, and another equivalence is reached within that nothingness, neither is around. The predators and prey share their history of interaction, which is another equivalence, and so on.

paddy

[Lavazza]

Oh! Another Law of confusion occurred to me. When Don was asking about the creation of the atomic bomb, Ra mentioned that most of the developers of the bomb were fairly polarized to STO, but said that there was one significant exception who he refrained from naming because he was still alive. It's funny, but the first time I read that, I immediately thought of Edward Teller (father of the Hydrogen bomb), who did recently die. It might be interesting to get a confirmation of that from Q'uo. In looking at Teller's life, it's certainly easy to place him in the STS role.

I'm reading through some old threads today

I did a quick look up of Edward Teller... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Teller
From what I can tell, Mr. Teller was an outspoken advocate of nuclear energy / nuclear weapons for his entire professional career and life after they were developed. He even proposed using them to mine huge portions of land in order to create artificial water bodies. And at another point he coerced politicians in to not signing non-nuclear proliferation treaties. Yes, it does sound like Teller is at least leaning in the direction of STS. I don't know if he falls under the category of 'extremely STS polarized though', at least in comparison to other entities that we know were STS polarized, such as Himmler and Kahn.

Thoughts anyone?

[AnthroHeart]

Wasn't Lucifer a watery planet that fell to Earth some years ago? I think I saw that in the Esoteric Agenda but I'm not exactly sure which source.

[Questioner]

I'm a little confused on the theme.

By "loose ends" do you mean topics that Ra or Don brought up, but there wasn't a follow up discussion for Ra to explain fully?

Is the idea to list these topics, then see if later LLR channelling addressed these topics more fully?

Based on earlier discussions I imagine that outside channeling sources are outside the rules. Are the follow-ups to the dangling topics strictly from LLR material, or can we bring in our own interpretations, thoughts, feelings, meditations etc. to explore our own experiences?

[kylissa]

Doing a bit of study into free will today and I think I found one of the "dangling" statements...
Ra refuses to guide us on the invocation of "a great mass of light strength" here:

"Ra: I am Ra. The Law of Confusion or Free Will is utterly paramount in the workings of the infinite creation. That which is intended has as much intensity of attraction to the polar opposite as the intensity of the intention or desire.

Thus those whose desires are shallow or transitory experience only ephemeral configurations of what might be called the magical circumstance. There is a turning point, a fulcrum which swings as a mind/body/spirit complex tunes its will to service. If this will and desire is for service-to-others the corresponding polarity will be activated. In the circumstance of this group there are three such wills acting as one with the instrument in the, shall we say, central position of fidelity to service. This is as it must be for the balance of the working and the continuance of the contact. Our vibratory complex is one-pointed in these workings also and our will to serve is also of some degree of purity. This has created the attraction of the polar opposite which you experience.

We may note that such a configuration of free will, one-pointed in service-to-others, also has the potential for the alerting of a great mass of light strength. This positive light strength, however, operates also under free will and must be invoked. We could not speak to this and shall not guide you, for the nature of this contact is such that the purity of your free will must, above all things, be preserved. Thus you wend your way through experiences discovering those biases which may be helpful."

[Cyclops]

Could this light strength be this? since when you serve with a pure intent you alert the other polarity which then may work to snuff out positve service.. and at the same time "one-pointed in service-to-others, also has the potential for the alerting of a great mass of light strength. This positive light strength".. now lets look at this potential.

There is in the Ra material and the Q'uo sessions the writing of how service to others seeking in a group alerts inner and outer beings which lend their light to the already somewhat created light of the incarnated group.

To this modest gathering have—we correct this
instrument—has come myriads of what you would
term inner planes and outer planes entities, which
flock to those places where light is being generated
by natives, shall we say, of your sphere in order both
to join in the joy of the experience and to lend their
limitless light to the light which, by your seeking
together, you have also begun to create yourselves.

Q'uo

To then invoke this you must willfully know this and ask all the entities which lend their light to gather others??

For a great portion of your last major cycle of
75,000-plus years, those who have graduated to
fourth density have felt it necessary to defend their
polarity from the opposite polarity as if they were
still in third density. The entities involved in this
war are of the inner planes rather than coming from
outside the planet. Fourth-density wanderers are not
coming in to carry on this war. Rather, there are
entities coming in which, having reached
harvestability, have chosen not to go on to fourth
density but to remain in the inner planes of third
density.
Their awareness is that of fourth density, yet their
prejudices remain those of third density. So, they are
convinced that they must defend the souls of planet
Earth from negative polarity. Likewise, those who
have graduated in the negative sense see it as their
business to battle the light.

Q'uo

This is only a speculation about the great mass of light strength that Ra had mentioned.

[Brad N]

[quote='βαθμιαίος' pid='496' dateline='1231548312']
I love the premise of this thread.

One of the biggest dangling threads is the archetypical mind, specifically the body, the spirit, and the choice. There's many sessions worth of questions there.

Good-day. I am glad to see the interest in continuing the archetype study this is a central study for myself as well and one I would love to elaborate on.
On card six Ra encourages Don to explore the two echos of the shape of the crossed arms and I'm sure this is a dangling thread that we could explore. Transformation of the mind to me is a comittment to a direction of the choice and opens the door to the way. This is a turning point yet the rocking back and forth seems necessary to appreciate all aspects before (abandoning one path) to persue fully the other.
I appreciate this topic and further archetype study. Thank you.

[Brad N]

Good evening!
Here is one for the day to pick on if you-all are interested:

Session 78
These tools were of three kinds. Firstly, there was an awareness of the efficiency for experience of mind, body, and spirit. Secondly, there was an awareness of the most efficacious nature or, if you will, significator of mind, body, and spirit. Thirdly, there was the awareness of two aspects of mind, of body, and of spirit that the significator could use to balance all catalyst. You may call these two the matrix and the potentiator.

My interest is in the significator of the body. I interperet this as a Christ-like entity in that the sacrifice is about giving without the expectation of anything in return like the ultimate price.The indication is also given, I believe that the concepts and value of the incarnation live on.
I guess only the first seven (those of the mind) are detailed so we can try to unlock the rest over time in this forum.
Here's another one since I somewhat figured it out:
(I still don't see the quotation bubble above the chat box but I will keep trying.)


Ra: I am Ra. The original significators may undifferentiatedly be termed the mind, the body, and the spirit.

Questioner: Then we have, at the beginning of this galactic evolution, an archetypical mind that is the product of the previous octave which this galaxy then used as and acts upon under the first distortion so as to allow for what we experience as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service-to-self and service-to-others.

Now we see the significator before the veil being (innocently polarized) This I see as a state of balance, instinctually unblocked?
After looking at this it leads me to think this is where the blockage of previous incarnations would have sway also probably very vast in effect depending on the nature of the previous experience.

Session 92
Ra: I am Ra. The Potentiator of Mind and of Body are both involved in the questing of the infant for new experience. The mind/body/spirit complex which is an infant has one highly developed portion which may be best studied by viewing the Significators of Mind and Body. You notice we do not include the spirit. That portion of a mind/body/spirit complex is not reliably developed in each and every mind/body/spirit complex. Thusly the infant’s significant self, which is the harvest of biases of all previous incarnational experiences, offers to this infant biases with which to meet new experience

.

I will try to digest that a little and give you-all a chance to join.
This is great and I leave you all in love.