The undeniable truth of Darkness and STS

[Unbound]

Wow, I very much appreciate you pointing out that progression, as I did not actually notice that but I did indeed seem to step deeper and deeper in to consciousness with each paragraph. The Eternal One is indeed an interesting channel, it feels so timeless.

I am actually considering beginning to compile, and intentively work with the channelings of The Eternal One, I feel it is some of the purest information I have connected with in my consciousness.

Thank you for your words, I am now going to read my own post because it never seems like me when I read many of my posts afterwards, like I wasn't even writing it, but of course I was merely tuning in to a portion of consciousness which is divorced from the configuration which gives rise to my situation within this physical body.

[Aaron]

I am actually considering beginning to compile, and intentively work with the channelings of The Eternal One, I feel it is some of the purest information I have connected with in my consciousness.

Go for it!! As long as you play it safe, what have you got to lose? If all that is inside you, you've got a gift to share...

[Unbound]

Aha That is another thing, I am at no risk, the channel is not from an external source, The Eternal One is no entity, it is Me, I am The Eternal One. I am literally channeling my own soul, it is more of my pure being than the temporal identity which I use in this world.

To be honest, for me, "channeling" is no different than if I was thinking creatively. I am just translating the vibrations of my being, which is no different than when one speaks in regular conversation, just rather I am translating deep core vibrations rather than sensory or astral or whatever vibrations.

My sense of Self is quite malleable.

[Aaron]

Aha That is another thing, I am at no risk, the channel is not from an external source, The Eternal One is no entity, it is Me, I am The Eternal One. I am literally channeling my own soul, it is more of my pure being than the temporal identity which I use in this world.

To be honest, for me, "channeling" is no different than if I was thinking creatively. I am just translating the vibrations of my being, which is no different than when one speaks in regular conversation, just rather I am translating deep core vibrations rather than sensory or astral or whatever vibrations.

My sense of Self is quite malleable.

I find it fascinating that the "depth" of level of consciousness from this physical matter based viewpoint (i.e. a "deeper level of self") translates to a "higher" level of energies on the spirit side of things.

[Unbound]

Aha Oh yes, the terms "sinking in to consciousness" and "ascending in vibration" are actually more or less synonymous. Thus why the whole up and down, rising, descending thing gets a little confusing when trying to translate it to more direct concepts.

[Ankh]

Awesome post, abridgetoofar! Really awesome.

This is what has been bothering me all the time, but I couldn't nail it like you did:

Now, you've admitted that Shin'Ar has accused various members of being STS. Shin'Ar has openly admitted to "trapping" them into revealing themselves and then attempts to discredit those people...consistently saying (in many different words) "it is those who disagree with me that you should be wary of." Shin'Ar was (read, WAS...I understand his moderation notice seems to have been effective), very obviously trying to create an US Vs. THEM dynamic. Warning certain members to beware of other members, especially ones that disagree with him? Essentially what was happening was Shin'Ar would accuse any member who disagreed with him of being STS, and saying that that members words should be discredited because of it.

Shin'Ar, let's start over you and I. Parts of my upbringning were spent in service to self (as it is described by Ra) environment. It of course left marks inside of me, which I ever since have been trying to heal. I am on a good way to heal and understand them, but this takes time. Traps, lies, deception - is something that brings me personal catalysts. I am not going to ask you why you felt an urge to "prove" yourself right to such an extent that you felt forced to take such an action, as it is not important. I want on the other hand thank you for these catalysts. This discord showed me in a very clear way that I am not done with my past, and it pointed me to the specific points, the unhealed wounds, that are in need of healing and understanding.

Monica, I think that I understand how you think and feel in regards to veggies that you sneaked into your son's food, but only reading it, gave me catalysts. Thank you for pointing that out to me too. I have too black and white view about it. In my eyes - lies are lies. Deception is deception. And honesty is honesty. You are saying:

Ankh, it does still seem like you're trying to get me to judge Shin'Ar, because you already know my stance on such issues. You already know that I think any action taken with malicious intent isn't 'ok' for one aspiring to STO. And you already know that I cannot judge the motivation of another person, though I did state that I believe Shin'Ar's intentions to be good, based on what I've read of his posts.

I've heard that during those years. And there was nothing I could say or do to prove that I don't think in the lines like that!! It was never in my mind that I know what the other one thinks and feels. I never think in the lines like that!... I never trap anyone! Not that I am aware of it anyway...

My personal opinion about this situation is to not sweep it under the rug, as abridgetoofar said, not by judging anyone, but by learning.

My suggestion is to stop pointing fingers at others, to stop assuming what the other one thinks, knows and what their opinions are! If everybody could just stop looking around, and look inside themselves instead, this would be a much more harmonious community. And that advice goes to me too. No matter how much I try to learn, and to seek only personal reasons for reacting, again and again - I find myself in the discussions of this sort, due personal issues.

Shin'Ar - I don't know why you felt a need to prove your point, and point fingers at members of this community. To me it doesn't matter whether you call these members STS, or Sons of the Belial, and others STO or Sons of Light - it is still a division of members of this community. And by your own judgement alone you can divide members in two cathegories?

Let's start over and say that all of us are here to seek and study. By doing so we can either serve and aid each other, or we can serve ourselves. The choice is ours.

Peace.

[Shin'Ar]

Aha That is another thing, I am at no risk, the channel is not from an external source, The Eternal One is no entity, it is Me, I am The Eternal One. I am literally channeling my own soul, it is more of my pure being than the temporal identity which I use in this world.

To be honest, for me, "channeling" is no different than if I was thinking creatively. I am just translating the vibrations of my being, which is no different than when one speaks in regular conversation, just rather I am translating deep core vibrations rather than sensory or astral or whatever vibrations.

My sense of Self is quite malleable.

Now there is one who understands the connection between the One, the Fragment, and the All. When one is able to manke that connection with the Divine Nature that they are, waves of information begin to pour in and out. Channeling, as Azreal noted, is nothing more than being connected to other fields of consciousness and being aware of that connection so that it works both ways. it is nothing more or less than the simply interaction and process of natural design.

These are not alien entities, they are not in us trying possess us. They are fields of consciousness mating with our own to become the next new experience. The next new Sacred Eye.

Some of us are aware of this interplay and some are not. To others it will sound crazed and incredible. But as ones who understand we realize it as being as natural as breathing.

---

Shin'Ar - I don't know why you felt a need to prove your point, and point fingers at members of this community. To me it doesn't matter whether you call these members STS, or Sons of the Belial, and others STO or Sons of Light - it is still a division of members of this community. And by your own judgement alone you can divide members in two cathegories?

Let's start over and say that all of us are here to seek and study. By doing so we can either serve and aid each other, or we can serve ourselves. The choice is ours.

Peace.

There is no staring over dear Ankh. For some reason you do not want to let it go and that is your burden to bear. But what was done is done and cannot be removed. It is stored. We are what we have been and created. Your perception is of your making and that is the nature of our being.

The question now, is what shall we become? The interaction between us has been revealing. It is what it is and I have learned certain things from it about you. But I would not dare to presume to know you through this interaction alone. Not only are we both much more than the words in a forum, but we can also become very different than we now are as we grow into our Higher Being.

What was is memory. My focus is and always will be, not on the temporary or the past, but on the direction of moving toward the Light from whence I came. I will serve you whenever I can, I have no need to serve myself, for there is no such an entity. I am One with you. This temporary form is a vehicle by which my consciousness seeks to be of service to the All, which is the means by which I return to the One and the Light. To serve self is to attempt to satisfy a delsion of the physical. I am spirit.

[Shemaya]

We know what we will become, the question is who are we right now?

---

I am that I am. I am the ocean. I am the sky. I am the sand . I am the Tree. I am the thunder and the lightning. I am the Body and blood.

[Shin'Ar]

We know what we will become, the question is who are we right now?

---

I am that I am. I am the ocean. I am the sky. I am the sand . I am the Tree. I am the thunder and the lightning. I am the Body and blood.

Right now? oops wait thats gone! you mean right now/ oooops there it goes again.

It seems that right now is hard to hang onto. Right now becomes what we will be too quickly to determine. I wonder how it is that YOu know what you will become?

The point is that you do not seem to like me and that is your choice. the reality is that you don't know me. So you do not like someone that you do not know. That is who you are right now. But it is not who I am.

I am one who seeks to be my Higher Being, who understands that this temporary being will pass and will become another temporary being. In that process I try to evolve and become more than that same old cycle of temporary being because I know that I am far more than that.

That understanding I offer to you should you want it. You can choose to accept it, and know me for what I really am, or you can choose to reject it and be what you think you really are right now.

[Shemaya]

Yes, there it goes again like the waves of the ocean. Dynamic stillness, the ocean moves and yet there is a deep unmoving peace contained therein.

How do I know what I will become? If I know what I am then I know what I will become.

I do not know you Shin'Ar, I only know the catalyst you have given me. Thank you, it has given me a deeper understanding of myself.

I will be as I choose, I am choosing to find love in the moment.

[godwide_void]

@plenum: Oh, I'm always around. I always read what is going on here, but often times I'm accessing the forum from a mobile device and as such am only in a position to read, preferring instead to post when I am behind a computer as it becomes tedious trying to post lengthy and thoughtful responses from an iPod.

@Austin: I tell Shin'Ar to do what he feels he must do because I am well aware that much of what he says is channeled, dictated by higher guides, and it is the Creator which guides him every step of the way (as It does for all here). I do not foresee Shin'Ar ever intentionally inciting disharmony, nor do I find it likely that disharmony would ever establish itself due to his words/actions. I do not believe he is purposely trying to further the gap, and feel that he aims instead to create greater unity here by offering caution and speaking out on the potential the darkness has to damage that unity, hoping that none here would ever find themselves led astray by it. Every interaction which occurs here is underlined with light. There is no need, nay, it is a close impossibility, to exchange thoughts here that do not contain within themselves some measure of a desire to spread love and light. And yes, hugs may indeed be in order.

[Oldern]

Oh, so much progress in this thread since I last checked.

Thank you, everyone.
This is yet another resolved conflict in Bring4th when I was not quite sure what will happen.

TheEternal, a very powerful and beautiful message, that was, thanks.
And Shin'Ar, please understand that we are not garnering hate or dislike towards you. But you also need to recognize in the meantime that using things as "I will be the light in the darkness" regarding this place suggest that there is much darkness here. I just do not see it o_o

Love to all of you!

[Monica]

Traps, lies, deception - is something that brings me personal catalysts.

They would bring anyone catalyst! But even more so, given your background.

Monica, I think that I understand how you think and feel in regards to veggies that you sneaked into your son's food, but only reading it, gave me catalysts. Thank you for pointing that out to me too. I have too black and white view about it. In my eyes - lies are lies. Deception is deception. And honesty is honesty.

For the record, I didn't lie to my son and tell him it had no veggies. I just sort of 'forgot' to mention it, until after he tasted it. The point was for him to realize that he really did like the taste, instead of having his mind already made up before he tasted it. And he wouldn't even taste it if he knew what was in it.

It's not so black and white with children. Someday, if/when you ever have a child, I think you will understand!

My suggestion is to stop pointing fingers at others, to stop assuming what the other one thinks, knows and what their opinions are! If everybody could just stop looking around, and look inside themselves instead, this would be a much more harmonious community.

Yes it sure would.

And that advice goes to me too. No matter how much I try to learn, and to seek only personal reasons for reacting, again and again - I find myself in the discussions of this sort, due personal issues.

You are not alone!

Shin'Ar - I don't know why you felt a need to prove your point, and point fingers at members of this community. To me it doesn't matter whether you call these members STS, or Sons of the Belial, and others STO or Sons of Light - it is still a division of members of this community. And by your own judgement alone you can divide members in two cathegories?

Shin'Ar, I agree with Ankh on this. It's fine to talk about STS/STO as general concepts, but not ok to label individuals.

Let's start over and say that all of us are here to seek and study. By doing so we can either serve and aid each other, or we can serve ourselves. The choice is ours.

Peace.

Good idea!

[Shin'Ar]

I am seeing alot of confusion over my poor use of generalities as well. Often when I am speaking in general I continue to use the word 'you', my meaning manking in general, when I should be using the word 'one' to avoid it sounding personal.

does that make sense? It is something I find hard to write out.

Even with my use of the word darkness as Oldern just pointed out. I know what I mean when I use it but obviously it does not come across the samw way to thoase who are not aware of my understanding of the word.

Most often, unless specifically for referring to the Sons of Darkness or Sons of Belial, when I use the word darkness it will be without the capital letter and referring to the cycle of darkness which is reincarnation.

So 'shining the light in the darkness' is meant to mean bringing awareness to a need to realize that we are more than the tempoary flesh to which we are so intimately attached.

And Monica you are right my dear. It is wise to make sure that people are not hurt by your terminoligies even though it is their misunderstanding that causes the problem. One must use their words carefully when touching on subjects of such intimate concerns.

And so it is best for to avoid using the words that I use in other circles when they are not understood in this circle. I continue to forget that not everyone comes to this place with backgrounds in esoteric study. It is strange to find so many understanding the complexity of the One, that does not also have prior undertsanding of the Mystery. For thosuands of years it has been the norm for a consciousness to follow a very elusive gnosis to arrive at the understanding of the One. But with today's access to mass media the Mystery is more widely revealed. We are experiencing very unique times.

[Steppingfeet]

I wish to say to the community that I love you all. I love reading your words on this screen and feeling the intention behind those words. Even when struggling with difficult catalyst, you always reach for solutions and perspective that are rare in this world. What takes place on the forums is as real as any other sector of life, and I thank you all.

Like Abridgetoofar and Ankh, I favor – in general and in this case specifically – reflection. Sometimes it is indeed best not to reflect, at least in a multi-party way, and move on without another word. But as I wrote to another member recently, in most cases, especially ones involving dynamics as complex as those represented in the forums, I think it much, much healthier to actually use the catalyst at hand. Look at it. Identify it. Discern the imbalance. Open respectful dialogue about it. Apply spiritual principles. Accept, integrate, and ultimately learn from it. This is all possible and can be undertaken without judgment for any party. As long as no one is villainized and no one engages in personal antagonism, all parties involved in some form of dispute can meet together at the MLK-Table of Brotherhood. : )

Shin’Ar, you are the bomb dot com for the massive effort you made towards returning the energies to balance and harmony in these two posts:

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...3#pid78153

http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthrea...0#pid77890

Ankh, Austin, Diana, Monica, Tenet AND others who have made genuine heartfelt efforts to reach out, you also rock my world.


Reflection
To reflect on my end of things, I wish to be clear that I have no personal animosity toward Shin’Ar. Godwide_Void, as you pointed out, he’s a beautiful person with positive intentions. He, like all of you, knows things I don’t. He’s got incredible insight to offer. And he’s an asset to the community.

In my participation in this particular energy snafu, I targeted not Shin’Ar the person - who is welcome as an equal brother in seeking alongside and among a community of fellow seekers - but a specific, particular activity and intention: evangelism.

I conferred with Aaron, my co-moderator, regarding my analysis of the situation. I sought the sage advice of another community member. And I paid attention, watching the dynamics of the forum, taking into account the reactions to Shin’Ar. A clear picture emerged.

It wasn’t that Shin’Ar had disagreements, or had a unique take on polarity or other points, it was rather a method and intention to proselytize that created the disturbance and warranted further attention, even if that activity was unconsciously undertaken. The proselytizing was not 100% of his interaction, but it became increasingly predominant, peaking on Tuesday or Wednesday until, with the help of Aaron, the moderators requested that it be discontinued.

Not speaking to *all* of Shin’Ar’s postings, but in the main there became an increasing desire to push a message. There seemed less interest in two-way, mutually edifying discussion and greater interest in converting others to and convincing them of a pre-determined message which he, the messenger/chosen one, was appointed to "reveal".

When any human being casts themselves into the role of messenger of “truth”, and seeks to persuasively and insistently hammer that into the consciousness of others despite requests to chill out, it immediately discounts everyone else’s capacity to know and to discover what is true for themselves. It elevates one to an authority over and above others. This is not humble, positively oriented service, in my opinion.

Just as the religious proselytizer is “genuinely” concerned for the soul of those they are seeking convince of the better/higher/truer way, so to Shin’Ar seemed genuinely concerned for what he sees as the “dangers” of the STS path.

It is an easy rut to fall into. I know when I first began my path I had LOADS of advice for those near me, especially my family, regarding how they ought to best live their lives. For some reason though push as I may, then never seemed to adopt my enlightened wisdom.

I'm sure many of us have had these moments, especially at the beginning of our conscious paths. And most of us have realized that it just doesn't work. We can't change people through coercion or insistent persuasion. (Godwide_Void, I recall that you recently encountered an individual of this orientation on the bus. I recall that the individual did not succeed in winning you over to their truth. )


First Guideline
The cornerstone of this community is written in the first guideline: We are here to respect each other’s views, not campaign against their wrongness.

And a campaign was being initiated. Multiple threads created on the same topic, inability to hear others’ very careful and nuanced explanations of what service to self is and how the seeker relates to it on both a practical and philosophical level, hammering home the same message ad infinitum, and stating out right that there was a mission to which this particular seeker was called and felt compelled to complete, any disagreement with that message indicating that other’s “risk” of being swept up into the negative polarity.

This particular energy, not the entity behind it, is against the guidelines and is not cool. And I thank Shin’Ar profusely for taking the hard step of reflecting and seeking to amend that particular behavior. At no point did anyone seek to stifle discussion, just reel in the promulgation/promotion/pushing of a one-way message often delivered in the form of sermon.


Terminology
Now to reflect further, there does seem a conflict of terminology and philosophy. Thank you, Shin’Ar, for going to the trouble of explaining the differences. I see how that could create some dissonance, confusion, and tension.

Yet I’m somewhat baffled that such a confusion still persists given that a) the material on which this community is founded is freely available for reading and study, and, b) members have made great effort to communicate what polarity means in their understanding.

But things being as they are, there remains confusion about these terms. No harm no foul.

As a solution, then, I propose this thread wherein we as a community seek to clarify what service to self and service to others mean, how they apply to the life, etc.

As I've said elsewhere, polarity will be something we embarked upon the conscious path of seeking will grapple with for the remainder of our incarnations, and into densities beyond our own, but for the moment let’s try to be as clear and concise as possible and generate understanding in this thread.


Integrating your light
(I borrowed that term/idea from another member. )

You've got such good energy to share, Shin'Ar and are entirely welcome here. You are not “wrong” and other members “right”. And vice versa. It’s simply a matter of a particular form of energy that, naturally of its own accord & without reference to the guidelines, disrupts forum harmony. The guidelines are written with this foreknown and thus do they seek to protect the temple from he or she who would evangelize members. Any other human being who sought to proselytize the temple would be met similarly, though uniquely, of course.

And I am GRATEFUL that that energy seems to have dissipated! I hope that we can continue to reflect with an eye not toward blame and accusation (not implying that anyone is doing that), but toward working together without this particular energy baffling our mutually constructive discussion. (And you guys are already doing that!! You rock so hard.)

At any rate, just my perception among other perceptions, that is.

Peace out - GLB

[Plenum]

thanks Gary. Excellent post.

I would also possibly add that in addition to the definitions of STO and STS that Ra presents, a particularly nuanced view of Free Will is also enunciated.

This Law of Free Will is also referenced as the Law of Confusion, which highlights that invasions of Free Will do not only occur at the physical/action level, but also apply to issues of information and who/how it is conveyed.

to an outsider (and this is not just referring to this case) this fine understanding of Free Will might seem like un-necessary logic chopping.

but it IS the First Distortion, and from which this whole experience of Reality takes place. The understandings we have of STO and STS spring from this foundation stone - as you have referenced here:

Service to others:

---

Seeks to respect the free will of all others and intends to reduce all possible infringement on the free will of others.

Service to self :

---

Seeks to infringe upon the free will of others. The Creator is seen only in the self, others deemed inferior to the self.

perhaps this debate of STO and STS might be more enlightening if we go back ONE STEP, back to where it all began.

THE FIRST DISTORTION.

[Shin'Ar]

Gary,

I realize that as moderator you have your hands full and also want to make your poiunts, just like the rest of us. We do not have to agree to be brothers. Now look at that last sentence! Do you see hwo it sounds like it is saying that we are not going to agree to be brothers, when instead what it meant was that we could be brothers even if we do not agree? If I had not picked up on this and left it that way that could easily have been taken as an insult and caused you to respond negatively inciting confusion.

I had laready respondrd to your other thread before reading this post, but I will say that I am defintley not getting my concerns voiced the way that I would like to. And I really don't know whow to say these things any differently than I already have except to say that what GWV said pretty much nailed it for me. I wonder if I can hire him to be my translator?

Anyway gary you state here :Yet I’m somewhat baffled that such a confusion still persists given that a) the material on which this community is founded is freely available for reading and study, and, b) members have made great effort to communicate what polarity means in their understanding.

This is true however I tell you that this information is being misinterpreted by some in a dnagerous way. It has been revealed to me through many discussions here. But as you have all so eagerly made clear, this community does not tolerate those who come here to bring a message of concern. It is considered bad manners and unwelcome. I will comply with that as it is your authority to set such guidelines. And so I will just have to rest on the knowledge that I have made my concern public and now let it takes its course. I do apologize for having violated the communitie's comfort guidelines and zones.

The intention was not malicious, even though it may have been ignorant of those policies.

[godwide_void]

Gary, yes it was indeed recently that I encountered an individual who came off as rather imposing (though it was in the subway, not the bus). Forceful coercion/persuasuin and a disregard for the other's capacity to know and learn never produce fruitful results; of this, I do not believe Shin'Ar is guilty of.

Shin'Ar, you don't have to hire me. I offer my diplomatic services on the house! Translating Lightenese to English is my specialty.

[Unbound]

We sense that much catalyst has "digested" here, and would express the likely benefit of the process of "elimination". Forgive, Learn, Grow. Blessings all, adonai.

[Shin'Ar]

Gary, yes it was indeed recently that I encountered an individual who came off as rather imposing (though it was in the subway, not the bus). Forceful coercion/persuasuin and a disregard for the other's capacity to know and learn never produce fruitful results; of this, I do not believe Shin'Ar is guilty of.

Shin'Ar, you don't have to hire me. I offer my diplomatic services on the house! Translating Lightenese to English is my specialty.

HAH larious!

[yossarian]

I just think Shin'Ar has as much to learn from this forum as vice versa. I think he's seeing scary ghosts where none exist and so the forum is helping his to learn some kind of lesson relating to how he relates to people who appear to be going down a bad path.

[godwide_void]

I just think Shin'Ar has as much to learn from this forum as vice versa. I think he's seeing scary ghosts where none exist and so the forum is helping his to learn some kind of lesson relating to how he relates to people who appear to be going down a bad path.

We are all simultaneously teachers and students. Teach/learn, learn/teach as Ra termed it. Everyone here is aware of and is rooted in the same common truth, yet we all have our own perspectives on it, some hold knowledge pertaining to certain information that others aren't aware of or don't quite comprehend fully yet, came across it in varying ways, studying different aspects of it with varying lenses and biases, etc.. So almost every post here is our way of teaching each other what we have come to know, and at the same time every subsequent response we get will help us refine what we profess to know, thus we all teach and we all learn. It's good to take a Socratic approach to all this with a sort of 'intellectual humbleness'. Through Socrate's stance of "not knowing anything" and viewing all around him as potential teachers he ended up amassing much wisdom.

I mean, we have a zen master, a practitioner of ancient esoteric rites, channellers, psychonauts, metaphysicians, theologists, and just 'regular' people with no prior initiation or spiritual learning who've come across truth and seek to incorporate this enlightenment into their daily life; a whole motley crew of truth seekers, really. Everyone here has much to offer one another.

[yossarian]

Is zenmaster actually a zen master?

I guess i'm one of the regular people. argh!

[godwide_void]

Don't worry, you're not just a 'regular' person. Since, y'know, you're kind of a mini avatar of the Creator and whatnot.