An Ethical Delimma

[rva_jeremy]

Anyway, I knew this post was going to create very mixed reactions but now is kinda late to erase it.

As long as we all practice our attempts to understand each other instead of find ways to undermine each other, there's nothing wrong in principle with exploring these issues. It seems obvious to me that anybody attempting to practice politics in our messed up world is going to have plenty of opportunities for depolarization. To me, it's more an issue of understanding the acts and context rather than bestowing judgment on the person himself, whom none of us knew personally. And in revolution, it seems obvious that people will die, that this will depolarize, and that people can be both well guided and misguided in reacting to catalyst. Should any of this surprise us?

[Eddie]

Che Guevara, as a possible example of working on blue/indigo ray because his behavior (on those circumstances) was involving work in a planetary scale probably at the highest level with possibly the highest socialistic ideals (regarding rays).

At one point, there was the risk of (very real) of blowing up the planet due to the Cuban missile crisis. The threat was real and his stand was --paraphrasing --"well if they blow up the planet it was USA's (or the elite's) decision it is not our responsibility". On another level, when on Bolivia, he was dealing with native Bolivian culture but is there a question about imposing socialist beliefs, imposing your will on a different culture? --Even though many Bolivians there compared him to Jesus and possibly set a precedent to Evo Morales ( I know it did for Venezuelan Cesar Chavez)

His actions in Africa and Vietnam were of similar nature although with different results on that continent (Angola for example).

Can I ask you to work at the indigo level --involving others? Or since we are in 3rd density going to fourth, green is more appropriate?

On the other hand, probably he raised planetary vibrations significantly although gained much karmic debt due to the many killings he probably did.

Also, this deals with this planet's current situation. Might be different on other planets.

Are you aware of how many people Che Guevara tortured and murdered with his own hands? Of how he grinned and laughed as he joined in and directed his firing squads in Cuba? Whatever Che was doing, it wasn't "working on blue/indigo ray".

CIA propaganda. Have you read the "Bolivian Diaries" and the "motorcycle ones"? Have you researched his story, history, speeches, numerous writings?. Most of the time he let captured enemies free. Besides I mentioned he had to kill so I was questioning trying to make the world a "paradise" before green ray settles in.

Anyway, I knew this post was going to create very mixed reactions but now is kinda late to erase it.

It's not "CIA propaganda". My Spanish teacher was a Cuban exile, not a CIA agent.

Check out this portion of an article by Humberto Fontova, from the American Thinker:

In a famous speech in 1961, Che Guevara denounced the very "spirit of rebellion" as "reprehensible." "Youth must refrain from ungrateful questioning of governmental mandates," commanded Guevara. "Instead, they must dedicate themselves to study, work and military service, should learn to think and act as a mass."

Those who "choose their own path" (as in growing long hair and listening to "Yankee-Imperialist" rock & roll) were denounced as worthless "roqueros," "lumpen," and "delinquents." In his famous speech, Che Guevara even vowed "to make individualism disappear from Cuba! It is criminal to think of individuals!"

Tens of thousands of Cuban youths learned that Che Guevara's admonitions were more than idle bombast. In Guevara, the hundreds of Soviet KGB and East German STASI "consultants" who flooded Cuba in the early 1960s found an extremely eager acolyte. By the mid-'60s, the crime of a "rocker" lifestyle (blue jeans, long hair, fondness for the Beatles and Stones) or effeminate behavior got thousands of youths yanked out of Cuba's streets and parks by secret police and dumped in prison camps with "Work Will Make Men Out of You" emblazoned in bold letters above the gate and with machine-gunners posted on the watchtowers. The initials for these camps were UMAP, not GULAG, but the conditions were quite similar.

Today, the world's largest image of the man whom so many hipsters sport on their shirts adorns Cuba's headquarters and torture chambers for its KGB-trained secret police. Nothing could be more fitting.

The most popular version of the Che T-shirt, for instance, sports the slogan "fight oppression" under his famous countenance. This is the face of the second-in-command, chief executioner, and chief KGB liaison for a regime that jailed political prisoners at a higher rate than Stalin's and murdered more people in its first five years in power than Hitler's murdered in its first six.

"When you saw the beaming look on Che's face as the victims were tied to the stake and blasted apart by the firing squad," former Cuban political prisoner Roberto Martin-Perez recounted to this writer, "you saw there was something seriously, seriously wrong with Che Guevara."

"Castro ordered mass murder," remembers Martin-Perez, "but for him it was a utilitarian slaughter, in order to consolidate his power. A classic psychopath, the butchery didn't seem to affect him one way or the order. But Che Guevara, as his chief executioner, obviously relished the slaughter."

As commander of this prison/execution yard, Che often shattered the skull of the condemned man by firing the coup de grace himself. When other duties tore him away from his beloved execution yard, he consoled himself by viewing the slaughter. Che's second-story office in La Cabana had a section of wall torn out so he could watch his darling firing squads at work.


One day before his death in Bolivia, Che Guevara -- for the first time in his life -- finally faced something properly describable as combat. So he ordered his guerrilla charges to give no quarter, to fight to their last breaths and to their last bullet. With his men doing exactly what he ordered (fighting and dying to the last bullet), a slightly wounded Che sneaked away from the firefight and surrendered with fully loaded weapons while whimpering to his captors, "Don't shoot! I'm Che. I'm worth more to you alive than dead!" His Bolivian captors viewed the matter differently. In fact, they adopted a policy that has since become a favorite among Americans who encounter (so-called) endangered species threatening their families or livestock on their property: "Shoot, shovel, and shut up."

Justice has never been better served.

[Crimson]

Hahah!
Most first generation Cuban exiles have no credibility. This is part of the propaganda. They had to make those declarations in order to have a good paying and comfortable job (hahah that is not blue ray neither!). Take Posada Carriles for example. But I do not care. It seems the amount of times somebody reads (or years spent on) the Ra Material books is not statistically significant...

You seem to be getting emotionally involved. I will stop my participation on this discussion now.

[Confused]

As long as we all practice our attempts to understand each other instead of find ways to undermine each other, there's nothing wrong in principle with exploring these issues.

In fact I think these are the very issues at the center of spiritual evolution in 3D. From the LOO -

18.6 Questioner: Basically I would say that to infringe upon the free will of another entity would be the basic thing never to do under the Law of One. Can you state any other breaking of the Law of One than this basic rule?

Ra: I am Ra. As one proceeds from the primal distortion of free will, one proceeds to the understanding of the focal points of intelligent energy which have created the intelligences or the ways of a particular mind/body/spirit complex in its environment, both what you would call natural and what you would call man-made. Thus, the distortions to be avoided are those which do not take into consideration the distortions of the focus of energy of love/light, or shall we say, the Logos of this particular sphere or density. These include the lack of understanding of the needs of the natural environment, the needs of other-selves’ mind/body/spirit complexes. These are many due to the various distortions of man-made complexes in which the intelligence and awareness of entities themselves have chosen a way of using the energies available.

Thus, what would be an improper distortion with one entity is proper with another. We can suggest an attempt to become aware of the other-self as self and thus do that action which is needed by other-self, understanding from the other-self’s intelligence and awareness. In many cases this does not involve the breaking of the distortion of free will into a distortion or fragmentation called infringement. However, it is a delicate matter to be of service, and compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness.

The area or arena called the societal complex is an arena in which there are no particular needs for care for it is the prerogative/honor/duty of those in the particular planetary sphere to act according to their free will for the attempted aid of the social complex.

Thus, you have two simple directives: awareness of the intelligent energy expressed in nature, awareness of the intelligent energy expressed in self to be shared when it seems appropriate by the entity with the social complex, and you have one infinitely subtle and various set of distortions of which you may be aware; that is, distortions with respect to self and other-selves not concerning free will but concerning harmonious relationships and service to others as other-selves would most benefit.

[Aaron]

Uggh, I didn't know Kroger still used the whole union thing... That sucks! I don't think I could ever work at a place where employees formed a union, unless it was a really huge company like the automobile industry.

Well, Lynn, if I was in your situation, I would start looking for a second part-time job. Just be open to finding something that you love that will bring you wealth. (not necessarily monetary riches... just wealth)

You can always try to get in to what I'm just now picking up: http://www.norwex.com/norwex.php?lng=7&cnt=223 (click "become a consultant")

Other ideas abound... You could make homemade things and sell them on etsy.com Or get licensed and start your own home daycare center... You could start writing for a local newspaper until you get your book published...

[rva_jeremy]

Uggh, I didn't know Kroger still used the whole union thing... That sucks! I don't think I could ever work at a place where employees formed a union, unless it was a really huge company like the automobile industry.

It's a shame what has happened to labor in this country. The big unions are basically junior partners in the same establishment that has been cheating labor all along. I'm more into workers organizing themselves; to trade a employer's bureaucracy for a labor union's bureaucracy isn't much of an improvement in my book.

There's so many more possibilities for organization and cooperation than what is readily available.

[Eddie]

At the 2009 Homecoming, one of the participants was a woman from Norway who described herself as "one of the founders of the Norwegian Maoist Communist party". During one session I asked her if it bothered her that Mao and his henchmen killed 30 million people during forced collectivization and the imposition of his totalitarian rule.

She squirmed in her chair. "Aach! It's rubbish!" she said. "It didn't happen!"

I will stop my participation on this discussion now.

A clear indication that, like her, you are unable to refute the evidence....and unwilling to accept the truth.

[Confused]

She squirmed in her chair. "Aach! It's rubbish!" she said. "It didn't happen!"

Clearly indicates the hold that political ideologies can have on us humans.

Looking at the way that this thread has veered from an individual person's professional dilemma to discussion of political killings, I can see the influence that politics can have. If people on bring4th can be disrupted, at least momentarily, by its power, the ugly hand of politics can then reach anywhere in this earth.

[Eddie]

She squirmed in her chair. "Aach! It's rubbish!" she said. "It didn't happen!"

If people on bring4th can be disrupted, at least momentarily, by its power, the ugly hand of politics can then reach anywhere in this earth.

And probably well beyond. Politics is, at heart, a vehicle for the ego, an opportunity to divide any sphere of existence into "us" and "them". At another level it's also a lot of fun, especially viewed from a LOO perspective. We will all have a good laugh about it when we're in time/space.

[Brittany]

Crimson, I liked your first post a lot. I feel as though this post is starting to tip into the usual "debate"/ "in depth discussion of related topic" format that so many posts on this site are falling into, and therefore I will withdraw from the discussion as well, as it saps my energy. I thank everyone for doing their best to help me with my issue. You have my love.