mapping the archetypes onto astrology (query)

[Plenum]

Ra gives us three choices from which to study the archetypal mind of our Logos (our sun, or solar system).

* tarot, of which Ra provides an exhaustive description, taking up much of the last 25 sessions.

* tree of life, which is constructed from 10 'stations' or nodes, and when you draw lines between those nodes, you get 22 inter-relationships, which correspond to the 22 archetypes of the tarot

* astrology, which commonly consists of '12 signs' but of which Ra mentions it is based on 10 planets, which can easily be transposed to the 10 stations of the tree of life above. An example here:



however, let us say that astrology is not that simple, and not a direct transposition of the tree of life. Instead we are left with 12 'star signs' from which to generate the understandings of the tarot.

I have made a 'brute force' attempt at an initial correspondance of possible archetypes.

1) take the first 4 star signs. These are Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer. I will let these correspond to some of the archetypes of the 'Mind'

2) next 4 signs are Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio. These will map onto some of the Archetypes of the 'Body'.

3) last set of four is Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces. These will be the spirit archetypes.

so how to map them? I just took a stab and said they might correspond to the matrixes, the catalysts, the significators, and the Transformations. at first glance there appear to be some surface matches. For eg:

aries = magician, tarurus=empress, gemini=hierophant, cancer=lovers
leo = balance, virgo=wheel, libra=hanged man, scorpio = death
sagittarius=devil, capricorn = star, aquarius=sun, pisces=judgement

some may see some patterns, some may not.

this may seem to be a misguided adventure; but I think the takeaway message is that those who immerse themselves in astrology can come to the same understandings and insights as those who work with the tarot, especially Ra's system of the tarot.

and the question is begged; what of the Potentiator cards, the Experience cards, and the Great Way cards? where do those understandings come from?

possibly from the interplay of the aspects of the signs; the trines, squares, sextiles, etc. I dunno. I'm just guessing and making a wild reach.

[Meerie]

Hm some resonate, some not... like for example libra could also be justice, or the judgment card,
death and scorpio sounds spot on, although some link the tower to scorpio, for example, I don't know if one can really draw concrete correlations here. And for whatever reason I have always associated the hermit with capricorn.
I have been trying something similar lately, linking tarot and kabbalah and astrology.
What I noticed when I looked at the tree of life, is that the "malefic" and traditionally male planets like saturn and mars are on the female side?
The makers of the kabbalah seem to have been old patriarchs, women probably did not have much of a say back then anyways, since for example Kether, corresponding to the crown chakra and our connection to the divine, is symbolically portrayed as an old white haired bearded man.
Just a couple of things that did not resonate with me and that seem "old style".

[JustLikeYou]

76.9
You may choose astrology, the twelve signs, as you call these portions of your planet’s energy web, and what has been called the ten planets. You may choose the tarot with its twenty-two so-called Major Arcana. You may choose the study of the so-called Tree of Life with its ten Sephiroth and the twenty-two relationships between the stations.

The strongest interpretation of this passage is that Ra meant the 10 planets and 12 signs to be taken together to equal 22 archetypes.

There is actually a standard map which has been in use for sometime now among the Golden Dawn and its splinter groups. It may seem odd that planets are attributed to both spheres and pathways, but that's precisely the traditional method. They may be difficult to see on this map, but they're all marked. Note that there are actually 12 signs, seven planets and 3 elemental signs (fire, water, air) rather than 12 signs and ten planets:



For my part, I have not yet come to any firm conclusions about these associations. More and more I find myself thinking that they are not directly mappable onto each other. But I still try.

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Also, Meerie, the male and female switch in the lower spheres -- just like on the body. So Chesed and Netzach are very feminine spheres. It is a simple fact of the matter that there is only one planet with a female name, so Jupiter and Saturn had to be taken as female energies rather than overtly female gods. The feminine triad is represented here fairly faithfully: Saturn (crone), Jupiter (mother), Venus (maiden).

[Plenum]

thanks Joseph. That makes a LOT more sense the way you've interpreted that passage.

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perhaps that is why Ra recommended we choose one system of study, and study it deeply. All 3 systems of archetypes possibly offer the same potential to penetrate the deep mind (the unconscious being the nature of concept, rather than words), but perhaps the skew is like viewing a pyramid from different angles. One can look top down and see the pyramidal structure in such a way, and one can look side on, and see the same structure, but with different angles.

and yet all 3 systems add up to 22.

- -

also - the tarot was a Venusian invention, and conveyed to the priests of Egypt via Ra. It was 'their' construction of the deep mind, and positing the 22 nodes in such and such a fashion.

perhaps the Jews were warded over and instructed by Yahweh, and Yahweh understood the same '22 nodes' in a different structure and communicated it to those peoples via the Kaballah and their mystical teachings.

- -

which leaves the system of western astrology, and who initially seeded that knowledge. Perhaps it originates from Atlantis, and there was a confederation contact there too, right?

and the '22 nodes' were more 'lost in time' because of the fall of that civilization, and only a faint echo of the original archetypal conception is left today.

[reeay]

Aleister Crowley attempted to integrate all 3 with his Thoth cards:

Card - Hebrew letter/astrology/tree of life

Fool = Aleph/Air/Kether to Chokmah
Magician = Beth/Mercury/Kether to Binah
High Priestess = Gimel//Moon/Kether to Tiphereth
Empress = Daleth/Venus/Chokmah to Binah
Emperor = Tzaddi/Aries/Netzach to Yesod
Heirophant = Vau/Taurus/Chokmah to Chesed
The Lovers = Zain/Gemini/Binah to Tiphereth
The Chariot = Cheth/Cancer/Binah to Geburah
Adjustment (Justice) = Teth/Libra (ruled by Venus exhaled in Saturn)/Geburah to Tiphereth
The Hermit = Yod/Virgo/Chesed to Tiphereth
The Wheel = Kaph/Jupiter/Chesed to Netzah
Strength/Lust = Lamed/Leo/Chesed to Geburah
The Hanged Man = Mem/Water/geburah to Hod
Death = Nun/Scorpio (Scorpio/Serpent/Eagle)/Tiphereth to Netzach
Art = Samekh/Sagittarius/Tiphereth to Yesod
The Devil = Ayin (Eye)/Capricorn/Tiphereth to Hod
The Tower = Peh/Mars/Netzach to Malkuth
The Star = He'/Aquarius/Chokmah to Tiphereth
The Moon = Quoph/Pisces/Netzach to Malkuth
The Sun = Resh/Sun/Hod to Yesod
The Aeon/Judgment = Shin/Libra/Hod to Malkuth
The Universe/World = Tau/Saturn/Yesod to Malkuth

Note: he does not use the outer planets - Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto
but I think Tower could be Pluto, Hanged Man could be Neptune, and Fool may be Uranus

[Confused]

aries = magician, tarurus=empress, gemini=hierophant, cancer=lovers
leo = balance, virgo=wheel, libra=hanged man, scorpio = death
sagittarius=devil, capricorn = star, aquarius=sun, pisces=judgement

Nice thread.

The following page gives a similar table, an attempt on the lines of what you have done, plenum. I got it after I googled on the lines of your comments.

@Meerie - I think you may find this interesting, as well, Meerie.

Tarot and Astrology: Major Arcana Correspondences

[Phoenix]

Deleted.

[third-density-being]

Hello,
 
I've tried to map star/planet signs base solely on the Great Arcanum presented in IV Book of The Law of One.
I’ve based “mapping” on the symbols that are present at the top of each Arcanum.
 
In case of Potentiator of the Mind I was uncertain – I couldn’t find meaning of those two symbols (one of them is “water over basket”) therefore I assumed that “Moon” at the top of the High Priestess head-cloth would be the “Planetary Sign” for this Arcanum – but I am not sure.
 
In case of the Significator of the Body, some star-sign I’ve found of “Libra” was quite similar to the symbol at the top right of the Hanged Man.
 
Last one of which I’m uncertain is Transformation of the Body. There’s literally no clue within this Arcanum – except for the “rainbow” which (with star “inside”) is labeled as “7 Iris”. Below I’ll enclose sources of those symbols.
 
 
Number                       Arcanum                                       Star Sign                              Symbol
 
1                          Matrix of the Mind                                     ?                                    Comet
2                      Potentiator of the Mind                                   ?                                    Moon(?)
3                         Catalyst of the Mind                                   ?                                     Venus
4                      Experience of the Mind                                   ?                                     Jupiter
5                      Significator of the Mind                                 Aries                                   Mars
6                   Transformation of the Mind                            Taurus                                  Moon
7                      Great Way of the Mind                               Gemini                                   Sun
8                         Matrix of the Body                                  Cancer                                Venus
9                      Potentiator of the Body                                  Leo                                  Jupiter
10                      Catalyst of the Body                                  Virgo                                Mercury
11                    Experience of the Body                                   ?                                    Mars
12                    Significator of the Body                               Libra(?)                                Moon
13                    Transformation of the Body                             ?                                   (7 Iris)
14                    Great Way of the Body                               Scorpio                                 Sun
15                       Matrix of the Spirit                                 Sagittarius                            Saturn
16                    Potentiator of the Spirit                              Capricorn                             Jupiter
17                      Catalyst of the Spirit                                     ?                                  Mercury
18                    Experience of the Spirit                               Aquarius                              Venus
19                    Significator of the Spirit                                 Pisces                               Jupiter
20                  Transformation of the Spirit                               ?                                   Saturn
21                    Great Way of the Spirit                                    ?                                    Sun
 
22                            The Choice                                            ?                          Newmoon/Full moon
 
Sources:
 

 
and
 

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Other interesting sources:
 

 
Egyptian Hieroglyphics
 
Symbols and Definitions

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I've tried my best to present complete mapping, but I lack proper knowledge in this field to “compensate” for lack of clues in the Arcanum.
Maybe above will be helpful for some-One and it facilitate completion of this Work.
 
 
All I have Best in me for You

[chaospanda]

I would suggest that in the process of mapping the astrological signs onto the archetypes, the possibility that more than the signs and planets themselves are considered. There is the concept of ascendant, planets in the houses, natal returns, and so on. It may be a dynamic relationship.

Also, it may not be completely possible to directly map it. Instead, with an understanding of the direct archetypes, we can deduct relationships between astrology, mystic symbolism, and archetypes.

[rva_jeremy]

Amazing conversation. Love feeling like the dumbest guy in the room! Thanks for sharing everybody.

[Spaced]

Interesting discussion. My thanks to the spammer for bumping it.