Re: The English Language Can Only Convey So Much...

[Bring4th_Austin]

Moderator Note: This post and the 10 that follow it were originally part of a conversation that began with a lament from Adonai One about the limitations of the English language in conveying ideas.

I remember Joseph Campbell putting it like this:

The best things in the universe cannot be conceived of in thought, they are what thoughts can only point to. The second best things are those thoughts trying to grasp the greatest things. The third best are the words we attempt to use to convey those thoughts.

I think this is true of anything, but probably especially true about the archetypes since they're a more pure distillation of the workings of our experience, near the roots of the mind, even further from the grasp of our thoughts and words.

[Rake]

Words are heavily distorted. I will use the previous sentence as an example because 'Heavily' is a descriptive word to convey a general idea. Quite simply how heavily is a perception of each person who reads the sentence. Some will agree on my perception and the use of the word heavily and some will not. The one's who do not will then look for a better descriptive word to fit their perception of what degree they perceive words are distorted, if at all.

This was from a purely third density standpoint as I know some entities when communicating through channeling struggle to find the correct words to describe certain themes or ideas.

[native]

Yes this area is very interesting. I've been meaning to make a thread about language, the channelings, and the communication of concept in an attempt to teach. I'll post it eventually.

"The nature of your language is such that what is distorted cannot, to our knowledge, be fully undistorted but only illuminated somewhat."

[zenmaster]

That's why it often takes a seemingly redundant explanation of different aspects or contexts of a concept/situation in order that the concept may be adequately expressed in an informative manner. Not only to others, but to the self. The evaluation, like all experience, is an ongoing process of discovery. It's not really the words used to express the concepts, but the concepts behind the words which are insufficiently known to self when truly inspected.

Often our concepts, as charged and powerful as they may seem, are reliant on weak notional suggestion or tenuous associations which are incapable of standing up to scrutiny.

[reeay]

Isn't there utility in using poetic and metaphorical expressions when language cannot relay internal experiences? Or artistic expression?

[Adonai One]

Indeed, rie. I have underestimated the value of such as a strict intellectual especially in this regard. I still believe objective understanding can be attained but it will require unveiling of the unconcious mind through disciplined meditation.

While residing in a grounded experience, it seems art remains the key to explaining these concepts.

[Unbound]

The rational and the irrational must mate to birth the offspring of truth.

[zenmaster]

Isn't there utility in using poetic and metaphorical expressions when language cannot relay internal experiences? Or artistic expression?

Poetic and metaphorical expression rely on the same evaluation of experience, except the faculty used is going to be that of feeling which is an attempt at a holistic treatment of a concept. That is, feeling is where we consider something with some kind of periphery of wholeness. And since we are not yet whole, the conceptual apprehensions related from that attempt will of course also fall short.

Since we know about (external/internal) things and processes through other things and processes, examples of analogy and metaphor can have a great deal of utility - again, limited by what experience can provide.

[reeay]

In the Ra material, Ra uses poetic and metaphorical phrases to convey ideas like courting the maiden. Dunno if there was rationale for that maybe I try to read too much into it.

[AnthroHeart]

A social memory complex must be able to translate ideas more effectively.

[zenmaster]

In the Ra material, Ra uses poetic and metaphorical phrases to convey ideas like courting the maiden. Dunno if there was rationale for that maybe I try to read too much into it.

That's the feeling function. Same function used when deciding where a piece of furniture goes because it "fits".