Finding Acceptance in the Face of Control

[flofrog]

I sure SO agree about what we do to 1st and 2nd density. I was just talking in general about the human experience...

[sillypumpkins]

I have no idea if it would be better without the veil in terms of evolution of consciousness. 

I believe that, while the veil goes hand in hand with suffering, it is absolutely vital for the evolution of consciousness. Of course we don't like to see others suffer, but ultimately, it is the suffering and the "darkness" that often brings people to the light. And so, without the veil, it would be like the garden of eden. There would be no reason to grow. That's just how I see it.

I don't like to see my loved ones suffer. I have a close, close relative who is in the midst of a really dark time right now. It pains me on one level, on the emotional level perhaps. But on a higher level, I know that this is something that will aid his growth, in one way or another.

I don't know, maybe I'm off with all that. I found this quote sort of relevant:

105.17 Questioner: Now, as an example I would like to take the distortion of a disease or bodily malfunction prior to [the] veil and compare it to that after the veil. Let us assume that the conditions that Jim, for instance, experienced with respect to his kidney malfunction had been an experience that occurred prior to the veil. Would this experience have occurred prior to the veil? Would it have been different? And if so, how?

Ra: I am Ra. The anger of separation is impossible without the veil. The lack of awareness of the body’s need for liquid is unlikely without the veil. The decision to contemplate perfection in discipline is quite improbable without the veil.

[Diana]

I believe that, while the veil goes hand in hand with suffering, it is absolutely vital for the evolution of consciousness. Of course we don't like to see others suffer, but ultimately, it is the suffering and the "darkness" that often brings people to the light. And so, without the veil, it would be like the garden of eden. There would be no reason to grow. That's just how I see it.

I don't like to see my loved ones suffer. I have a close, close relative who is in the midst of a really dark time right now. It pains me on one level, on the emotional level perhaps. But on a higher level, I know that this is something that will aid his growth, in one way or another.

It is difficult to see others suffer. But my point included other life forms, which is at the center of my concern. The planet, plant life, animal life, and even insects (which are poisoned and sickened continually by people spraying pesticides in their yards. I used to have countless scorpions in my last back yard when I lived in an urban setting, because all of my neighbors sprayed. You can't kill scorpions with pesticide, they just sicken. So they would migrate to a spot where there was no poison). This is the sort of suffering that I find so unnecessary. It may be necessary for a 3rd-density human to suffer to evolve, but those same humans cause suffering for other life forms in order to learn. I comprehend that all is one, and in some way that learning flows to those other life forms, but the suffering humans cause just seems SOOO unnecessary to me just so they can learn faster.

Central to the question I have about control regarding the veil is this: Why must we evolve faster? Why isn't it just okay to limp along slowly (if that's the case) in the evolution of consciousness, without a veil? Toward what end? So the Creator can experience itself or something of that nature? Though all is one—it still feels like being a pawn. And that might be fine, except for the unnecessary suffering of real innocents.

I comprehend that my view here is so very limited, ironically due to the veil. I understand that the key is to make choices. But it seems to me that this is part of an outside plan, and that is what's at issue, and seems like control to me—that 3rd-density beings, here, are being experimented on with this particular control. 

Understand that I am just canvassing this subject, and I'm not trying to be right or be a cosmic conspiracy theorist.

[sillypumpkins]

@Diana

I gotcha. The suffering of other life-forms is something I've struggled to understand as well. It certainly seems quite senseless and unnecessary from our point of view.....

I appreciate your "canvassing" lol. Your posts often give me things to think about. Sorry if I come off as argumentative sometimes :p

[flofrog]

Lol, you’re fine Silly !

I wonder if in our quest for helping Gaia, it might not make it easier to request first harmony and balance for first and second density entities, before we address the third density humans ...

[Aion]

I believe that, while the veil goes hand in hand with suffering, it is absolutely vital for the evolution of consciousness. Of course we don't like to see others suffer, but ultimately, it is the suffering and the "darkness" that often brings people to the light. And so, without the veil, it would be like the garden of eden. There would be no reason to grow. That's just how I see it.

I don't like to see my loved ones suffer. I have a close, close relative who is in the midst of a really dark time right now. It pains me on one level, on the emotional level perhaps. But on a higher level, I know that this is something that will aid his growth, in one way or another.

It is difficult to see others suffer. But my point included other life forms, which is at the center of my concern. The planet, plant life, animal life, and even insects (which are poisoned and sickened continually by people spraying pesticides in their yards. I used to have countless scorpions in my last back yard when I lived in an urban setting, because all of my neighbors sprayed. You can't kill scorpions with pesticide, they just sicken. So they would migrate to a spot where there was no poison). This is the sort of suffering that I find so unnecessary. It may be necessary for a 3rd-density human to suffer to evolve, but those same humans cause suffering for other life forms in order to learn. I comprehend that all is one, and in some way that learning flows to those other life forms, but the suffering humans cause just seems SOOO unnecessary to me just so they can learn faster.

Central to the question I have about control regarding the veil is this: Why must we evolve faster? Why isn't it just okay to limp along slowly (if that's the case) in the evolution of consciousness, without a veil? Toward what end? So the Creator can experience itself or something of that nature? Though all is one—it still feels like being a pawn. And that might be fine, except for the unnecessary suffering of real innocents.

I comprehend that my view here is so very limited, ironically due to the veil. I understand that the key is to make choices. But it seems to me that this is part of an outside plan, and that is what's at issue, and seems like control to me—that 3rd-density beings, here, are being experimented on with this particular control. 

Understand that I am just canvassing this subject, and I'm not trying to be right or be a cosmic conspiracy theorist.

Actually, it seems like variety is the spice of life.

79.27 Questioner: I was just wondering since this seems to be the crux of the experiment— this seems to be the large breaking point between no extension of the first distortion and the extension of the first distortion— what the result of this original experiment was with respect to that which was created from it. What was the result of that?

Ra: I am Ra. This is previously covered material. The result of these experiments has been a more vivid, varied, and intense experience of Creator by Creator.

I think it is almost silly, and perhaps infuriating, that the Creator would engage in all this simply... to experience something new?

The Universe was just bored, guys.

[sillypumpkins]

Lol, you’re  fine Silly !

I wonder if in our quest for helping Gaia, it might not make it easier to request first harmony and balance for first and second density entities, before we address the third density humans ...

and I think youre on to something there flo! we certainly seem to be the culprits in the suffering of first and second density entities. so it only makes sense for us to address ourselves before those entities.

The Universe was just bored, guys.

Lol! It is a hard thing to grasp from where we are collectively...... "all this suffering... is just because the universe was BORED?? what??" it sounds SO absurd, and even infuriating like you said, but really.... it's as good a reason as any.... ha ha

[Aion]

The suffering is samsara, but the truth is nirvana.

[sillypumpkins]

The suffering is samsara, but the truth is nirvana.

I thought samsara was the cycle of death and rebirth, which is perpetuated by the suffering (dukkha)?

it's been a while since I've read any eastern literature so i really am not sure

[Aion]

Dukkha is more like a fundamental feature of existence in Samsara.

Dukkha (suffering, incapable of satisfying, painful) is an innate characteristic of existence in the realm of samsara
Samudaya (origin, arising) of this dukkha, which arises or "comes together" with taṇhā ("craving, desire or attachment")
Nirodha (cessation, ending) of this dukkha can be attained by the renouncement or letting go of this taṇhā
Magga (path, Noble Eightfold Path) is the path leading to renouncement of tanha and cessation of dukkha.

So, yes you could say it is perpetuated by the suffering, but it's more like, they are coupled together, in my opinion. It would seem more that it is renouncing the tanha that actually makes the movement towards the cessation of suffering, and thus moving towards freedom from Samsara.

Perhaps, perpetuated by attachment is closer to the idea.

[Navaratna]

I believe that, while the veil goes hand in hand with suffering, it is absolutely vital for the evolution of consciousness. Of course we don't like to see others suffer, but ultimately, it is the suffering and the "darkness" that often brings people to the light. And so, without the veil, it would be like the garden of eden. There would be no reason to grow. That's just how I see it.

I don't like to see my loved ones suffer. I have a close, close relative who is in the midst of a really dark time right now. It pains me on one level, on the emotional level perhaps. But on a higher level, I know that this is something that will aid his growth, in one way or another.

It is difficult to see others suffer. But my point included other life forms, which is at the center of my concern. The planet, plant life, animal life, and even insects (which are poisoned and sickened continually by people spraying pesticides in their yards. I used to have countless scorpions in my last back yard when I lived in an urban setting, because all of my neighbors sprayed. You can't kill scorpions with pesticide, they just sicken. So they would migrate to a spot where there was no poison). This is the sort of suffering that I find so unnecessary. It may be necessary for a 3rd-density human to suffer to evolve, but those same humans cause suffering for other life forms in order to learn. I comprehend that all is one, and in some way that learning flows to those other life forms, but the suffering humans cause just seems SOOO unnecessary to me just so they can learn faster.

Central to the question I have about control regarding the veil is this: Why must we evolve faster? Why isn't it just okay to limp along slowly (if that's the case) in the evolution of consciousness, without a veil? Toward what end? So the Creator can experience itself or something of that nature? Though all is one—it still feels like being a pawn. And that might be fine, except for the unnecessary suffering of real innocents.

I comprehend that my view here is so very limited, ironically due to the veil. I understand that the key is to make choices. But it seems to me that this is part of an outside plan, and that is what's at issue, and seems like control to me—that 3rd-density beings, here, are being experimented on with this particular control. 

Understand that I am just canvassing this subject, and I'm not trying to be right or be a cosmic conspiracy theorist.

It's up to an individual if they want to take 10 lifetimes to move up through a density or see them all through exploring their mind and recognizing 14 of them.

When I first started reading forums I was thinking "No, that sounds terrible. Why do so many people feel that they are permanently stuck in 3rd or 4th density?"

I felt the need to share with people my perspective because to me that is like picturing someone with the idea that they are stunted at the level of consciousness in the pit of their stomach at 3rd, or thinking they are only in their heart or only worthy of it at 4th but never developed to the 6th energy level and need to wait until they die, after doing a life of good deeds to possibly be chosen to move up when it's far from my opinion of truth.

It's like comparing being a person with a vertebrae to a invertebrate life form.
This might sound "holier-than-thou" but I can think of conversations I've had with people in life speaking about the third eye and a decent number of young people actually saying to me "What's the point in having a third eye if I am completely functional without it?"

I'd just...be silent or sigh when I'd take a step back from it. To each their own, if someone wants to stay that way they're allowed to but I could never picture myself actually being comfortable with that attitude. "I'm completely fine with being in the dark."

Anyone is free to, but I myself don't think I'd ever want to.

"What are you DOING with that New Age bs?"

To me is like saying
"What are you doing with an intellect or consciousness...when you could just be a sack of potatoes?"
I don't fit with that mentality. Yet people have it. I won't get upset or argue with someone over it. I'll just slow shake my head in privacy....uh no.

[Aion]

Never mind those of us who make it out and then come back to help the others.

[Navaratna]

Never mind those of us who make it out and then come back to help the others.

"All your numbers don't mean anything to me. And crystals, what are those good for? psssh"

While taking enormous amount of time trying to comprehend densities divided in to numbers and focused on receiving light while in a dark room at a screen with solely synthetic computer light entering the physical form

[Aion]

All that wonderful blue light.

[Navaratna]

All that wonderful blue light.

I've been waiting for an excuse to post this

[Aion]

For some reason that brings to mind the concept of Rigpa in Tibetan Dzogchen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigpa

[Navaratna]

For some reason that brings to mind the concept of Rigpa in Tibetan Dzogchen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigpa

The Bardo being artwork reminds me of what humans would look like beyond 7th density.

To visualize, picture a tornado
so picture a grid, like a checkerboard with a dimension of density 1. one square
density 2x2 squares, meaning 4 total

this checkerboard moving up and up
3x3-4x4-5x5-6x6-7x7-

notice in the Tibetan bardo artwork the head expands like a tornado even more. google image "bardo being" 8th density. 8x8 = 64

except not only does the physical form expand how interwoven it is, but on the smallest level of our gene structure is that pattern present

[Asolsutsesvyl]

In large part, what people do on this physical level is just like paint on a canvas. In that sense, there's no bullshit - only bits and pieces which add up to a larger painting. The veil prevents viewing the painting, however it may look, and all impressions within the veil of how the painting looks are actually things included in the painting.

Almost everything which people imagine about the meaning of what they do mainly has the value of influencing what they do. Because the gap between imagination at this level and reality is almost complete, almost nothing in imagination works as an accurate description, no matter how much happens in connection with it. It is only a game when people, for a little while, think otherwise. As I very often do myself.

Almost all descriptions we can come up with are false. Almost everything which people have believed in over the entire course of human history has been pure bullshit. Almost everything which, for the time, is presented as an exception, is not. There's no end to the games of that kind being played as long as the veil is there.

[Navaratna]

In large part, what people do on this physical level is just like paint on a canvas. In that sense, there's no bullshit - only bits and pieces which add up to a larger painting. The veil prevents viewing the painting, however it may look, and all impressions within the veil of how the painting looks are actually things included in the painting.

Almost everything which people imagine about the meaning of what they do mainly has the value of influencing what they do. Because the gap between imagination at this level and reality is almost complete, almost nothing in imagination works as an accurate description, no matter how much happens in connection with it. It is only a game when people, for a little while, think otherwise. As I very often do myself.

Almost all descriptions we can come up with are false. Almost everything which people have believed in over the entire course of human history has been pure bullshit. Almost everything which, for the time, is presented as an exception, is not. There's no end to the games of that kind being played as long as the veil is there.

I think this embodies the way I think about the flaw of using the scientific method to discern truth.

Let's say everything I've written turns out to be "true"
It means that nothing about it is correct or incorrect, it is all one and any opinions of bias are a mental projection.

Determining if I am correct or incorrect if opposite of the point in a sense..

Not completely-- as in data and numbers need to be accurate and will exist in certain parameters..
but a person using the scientific method..

A lab coat wearing educated "scientist" so concerned with appearing straight and thinking only in constructed cultural contexts will have his BIAS with a very strong opinion and agenda WANTING to prove that I am completely incorrect because it flies in the face of whatever "science" is in his or her opinion...science as in what they think.."What I already know."

Despite the fact that this is all based off of science...and I give credit to scientists who meticulously studied light to determine octaves, developed l.a.s.e.r. technology, tracked lunation and DNA accurately. Developed the understanding of benzene for example...some of this knowledge came from dreams and Ouroboros as an image of the underpinning of life. Look at this for example and the story of Watson and Crick discovering DNA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Kek...lé's_dream

I think trying to present this to a "scientist" you'd run in to so much EGO and BIAS it would prevent 90% of them from even looking at the data.

This isn't religion, this isn't mysticism. This is data and there's a false assumption that everything couldn't possibly be intricately interwoven. Why the Hell do people think that? Muons, photons, biophotons, gravity, magnetism. They all interact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biophoton
Biophotons are light but differ from sunlight and moonlight...that 8th and 9th variety of light contains UV rays which I highly doubt biophotons would contain.

These are concept that are legitimate and scientific yet many would blow off this entire concept out of presumption, "likely story" ignorance, (ever heard of biophotons?) assumption "you must be a religious believer", biases "reality can't have a purpose. Evolution is survival not ever-complexifying organization and self-recognition"...not scientific understanding.

Bias/duality
Correct or incorrect?
Choose only one.

I just picture people looking at this and feeling inspired suddenly on a mission to PROVE HE'S WRONG.

Time will tell.

[meadow-foreigner]

Maybe this will clarify these semantic concepts:

The dialectic control/non-control refers to the subjective mechanism of Verdrändung (Psychoemotional displacement) of events, things, interpretations, thoughts &c. that are deemed inadequate, untimely, annoying, or aversive.

In this sense, with this mechanism of subjective displacement/control, a self-alienation from reality of the Self within the world spurs, which stems behaviors such as wishful thinking and other cognitive biases.

To displace, thus, is to attempt to 'control' the catalytic effect on the Self.

It comes from a place of unwillingness to deal with the totality of the Self.

To accept the catalytic effect on the Self is to not displace its presence when defronted by the Self; rather, to face that with may be deemed aversive or undesirable and understand its origins and its subjective interpretations by the Self.

This is the building of understanding that is the theme to develop in 4-D.

Whereas in 3-D you polarize the choice of action before catalysts.

Verdrängen oder nicht verdrängen? Das ist die Frage.