About Social Values-coufused

[ayadew]

Interesting thread.

Hello Quantum,

I will attempt to formulate my view of STS very simply, because I see it as very simple. The creation is in essence very simple, we humans have a love for complicating things. You may be placing too much thought into the karmic subject. I believe an 3rd density entity is merely stuck in karma until it has polarized appropriately, because that is all there is to learn in this density. Remember the goal of our density: To Understand Free Will.

Hatonn

This is how we were meant to live. Man on Earth has forgotten this very simple principle. He believed that he can generate, through plans and activities, great pleasure that will come to him as a result of these plans and activities. And then he goes forth and does these things in great complexity. And very seldom does he glory in their product, but he does not learn, for he does not meditate. For within him is the truth, the truth of the pathway to the ecstasy that awaits him. It is not a complex pathway. It is not a product of his intellect, or of his ability to act in the physical, producing great changes in the many things that he desired for his pleasure.

True STS is to control, manipulate, everything, including your own emotions, for your own gain. STS people aren't "evil" in the popular sense, they do not kill things for the sake of killing, that is being in control of the urge of killing.
They wish to be in service to themselves, not other things. I do not think the STS-killer person you describe really is STS, he is simply lost in his desire, quite lukewarm.

The ultimate goal of the STS person is to Learn, and to Progress, by the use of all other things. He wishes to use all available resources to gain power and knowledge. This might just be your everyday person, but his Intention is to use every moment for himself. The intention, thought, is as powerful as an act. We are all energy.
He might be manipulatively kind to people, only to help himself spiritually progress. A STO person might be genuinely kind to people, to help others spiritually progress.

One does not have to be a "grand, evil" STO person with a great network of malice to be 100% STO.

STS and STO aren't very different really. It's just a polarity of the same path. They are both a spiritual path with the same ultimate goal.

"Manipulation" is the keyword of STS.
"Acceptance" is the keyword of STO.

Peace and love, my friend.

[qqliudl]

Wow, greet comments from everyone here, hope we all gain more balance for both STS and STO here from these intelligent views. Love & Light~

[Quantum]

My, you really hold STS in high regard. Perhaps my choice of the serial killer was a little too provocative. Let me say, as a brief tangent, that I do not feel that most harvestable STS entities are nearly as "evil" as this. Indeed, I think a significant number of people in the public eye, as it were, are such harvestable STS entities. In many ways, the actions of a high profile STO and STS entity might even be the same, it is the intent behind the action that makes the difference.

The intent is always revealed, if not sooner, then later. History is proof. The thought exercise of STS has offered a small if not humble glimpse for me to perhaps a clearer understanding of what STS may possibly look like as regards karma. I thank you for this 3D. If I may diverge for a moment, I might offer in kindness 3D, that a thought exercise is best left unjudged. Assuming or even alluding I hold STS in high regard would be presumptuous if not false. It further trivializes the thought exercise, if that is indeed what we are engaging in? To take up the gauntlet as sport, for example, perhaps it would indeed be wise to hold a proficient STS in the greatest and highest regard, in as much as it might be folly not to. I have never met a true proficient STS'er mastered in his art. Nor would I care to. On the other hand, and more to my truer point, as a thought experiment, comparing what one can not hold clearly in thought (STS in my case to some extent), comparatively analyzed to what one can (STO in my case), is a most elegant manner of scientific exploration and examination to deduce, if not induce, a nomological-theory verses a standard cookbook theory on appetizers. It is a common process. Every single bit of this we presently have taken up the mantle for is as an engagement in theory at the end of the day in any case anyway, wouldn't you agree? Keeping always one's eye focused on the ball, it is well to remember that arguing theory is very much like an exercise, if taken too seriously, like arguing over the possession of fake diamonds. It will serve well to always remember that "we simply don't know" as much as "we are not supposed to know". The Logos knew that knowing would change everything. Thus the veil of forgetting. As we are all pilgrims stumbling in the dark, who knows whats truly what?

Back to the sharpness of your mind:

I said: If one is aware by presence alone of an awakened soul serving in the STO, and that it would be hard to miss, according to Ra, then it stands to reason that it may be as hard to miss an awakened STS'er as well? But it equally stands to reason that he may be more elegant at camouflaging his proficiency much like the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I believe that both would be hard to miss, even in a crowded room. I believe that this is a part of what we refer to as "charisma". We've all met the people that are simply fun to be around, and seem always at the top of their universe. Examine these and how they use their resources and abilities and I think you will find you have quite a discerning eye.

The STO would have almost no reason to wish to be missed or be deceptive, whereas being stealthy, the STS might have every reason to engage in camouflage for the express purpose in given scenarios, even if only momentarily, to in fact act in stealth, for nothing else but indeed to be missed with intent. As for charisma, I'm sure this is as true as it is not, in as much as charisma is more oft than not defined as an attractor, as though by a divinely conferred gift or power by definition in the theological context, as much as by standard understanding. Many of STS are surely sorely lacking in charisma, as this needn't be a signifier by any stretch I'm sure.

In closing, and this was the purpose for raising the question to begin with, given the Ra material addressed STS at great depth and length all throughout it's teachings, I have cause to believe there was reason. Either this information has been conferred to us by Ra from beginning to end as the express purposes for us to hold STS in high regard, as you define it, or for the express purposes of drawing and polarizing distinctions. There is a learning to be explored in having the courage to tread these conversations of STS verses what might be construed as a more innocent if not pollyanna attitude of focusing exclusively on the STO. "Were it not so, Ra would not have told us so", to turn a phrase. I believe Ra gave us this knowledge so that we might indeed draw these lines of distinction ever more grandly, this towards the ultimate aim of pointing us to the polarization of Service to Others in the abstract.

Questioner: Can you tell me how this newly created physical complex was suited to third-density lessons and what those lessons were?

Ra: I am Ra. There is one necessity for third density. That necessity is self-awareness, or self-consciousness. In order to be capable of such, this chemical complex of body must be capable of abstract thought. Thus, the fundamental necessity is the combination of rational and intuitive thinking. This was transitory in the second-density forms operating largely upon intuition which proved through practice to yield results.

The third-density mind was capable of processing information in such a way as to think abstractly and in what could be termed “useless” ways, in the sense of survival. This is the primary requisite.

There are other important ingredients: the necessity for a weaker physical vehicle to encourage the use of the mind, the development of the already present awareness of the social complex. These also being necessary: the further development of physical dexterity in the sense of the hand, as you call this portion of your body complex.

Questioner: Will you go ahead and comment on this?

Ra: I am Ra. The lobes of your physical complex brain are alike in their use of weak electrical energy. The entity ruled by intuition and impulse is equal to the entity governed by rational analysis when polarity is considered. The lobes may both be used for service to self or service-to-others. It may seem that the rational or analytical mind might have more of a possibility of successfully pursuing the negative orientation due to the fact that in our understanding too much order is by its essence negative. However, this same ability to structure abstract concepts and to analyze experiential data may be the key to rapid positive polarization. It may be said that those whose analytical capacities are predominant have somewhat more to work with in polarizing.

May we continue forward in the abstract,

Q

[3D Sunset]

The intent is always revealed, if not sooner, then later. History is proof. The thought exercise of STS has offered a small if not humble glimpse for me to perhaps a clearer understanding of what STS may possibly look like as regards karma. I thank you for this 3D. If I may diverge for a moment, I might offer in kindness 3D, that a thought exercise is best left unjudged.

I perceive that I struck a nerve with an obviously ill advised, intendedly facetious, and uncharacteristically flippant, remark. For this, I sincerely apologize. I was merely trying to respond to the disdain in which you appear to hold our STS brethren, and making the observation that although they are self-focused, they needn't be evil. In a similar manner to which, although our STO brethren may be highly other-focused, yet are not all Mother Theresa.

Separately, if you perceived any judgment on my part, then I am inexcusably guilty of presenting my humble view in an egregiously inappropriate manner. Please rest assured that in my heart, I make no judgment of you or any other entity and will redouble my efforts to communicate such more effectively.

I have never met a true proficient STS'er mastered in his art. Nor would I care to.

Few people, I think, can accurately make this claim, perhaps you are one. Recall though, as you said yourself, "But it equally stands to reason that he may be more elegant at camouflaging his proficiency much like the wolf in sheep's clothing."

It will serve well to always remember that "we simply don't know" as much as "we are not supposed to know". The Logos knew that knowing would change everything. Thus the veil of forgetting. As we are all pilgrims stumbling in the dark, who knows whats truly what?

I quite agree, and reiterate my conviction that I do not know anything. I have hypotheses, theories, experiments, and concepts. Together they provide me a model that fits well with my experience, but I am utterly convinced that they are as far from truth as the amoeba is from man.

Many of STS are surely sorely lacking in charisma, as this needn't be a signifier by any stretch I'm sure.

I would suggest that this is probably not the general case for STS individuals. Recall:

Ra Book III, Session 54

Questioner: A positively oriented entity may select a certain narrow path of thinking and activities during an incarnation and program conditions that would create physical pain if this were not followed. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Questioner: Would a negatively oriented entity do anything like this? Could you give me an example?

Ra: I am Ra. A negatively oriented individual mind/body/spirit complex will ordinarily program for wealth, ease of existence, and the utmost opportunity for power. Thus many negative entities burst with the physical complex distortion you call health.

However, a negatively oriented entity may choose a painful condition in order to improve the distortion toward the so-called negative emotive mentations such as anger, hatred, and frustration. Such an entity may use an entire incarnative experience honing a blunt edge of hatred or anger so that it may polarize more towards the negative or separated pole.

I tend to believe that with the relatively few exceptions referred to in the last paragraph, the nature of: wealth; ease of existence; and opportunity for power; combined with a high regard for the health of the physical body is pretty much a recipe for "charisma". As I write this, the movie Broadcast News is brought to mind. In it, the character played by William Hurt is, I think, an appropriate example of a highly polarized STS entity from pop culture.

Ra material addressed STS at great depth and length all throughout it's teachings, I have cause to believe there was reason... "Were it not so, Ra would not have told us so", to turn a phrase.

Recall that Ra did not lead the conversations, he followed Don's lead. As such, I think that a lot of the STS material you see from Ra is directly traceable to Don's curiosity and the real concern he had about protecting the group (especially Carla) from those entities that would otherwise truncate the contact, as it were. The consistent message that I hear from Ra is that All are One and all are held in the same regard by the One Infinite Creator. Clearly, I think Ra viewed their approach as unbalanced, but I believe he saw the same issues with STO. The difference being, that he was familiar with some of the pitfalls and challenges inherent in learning the LOO and advancing along the STO path. He would have, I think, been perfectly happy to give advice to STS individuals - because he wanted to be of service in whatever way possible - but would have been at a complete loss for what to say!

So, I do not see STS entities as those to be necessarily avoided, pitied, disparaged, or (most of all) feared. There is a place for them in this great universe, and they play a vital role. One must always remain focused on the task at hand and remain vigilant against any and all things that may distract us from our mission and opportunities to serve.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Quantum]

I perceive that I struck a nerve with an obviously ill advised, intendedly facetious, and uncharacteristically flippant, remark. For this, I sincerely apologize.

No apologies needed my friend, if we are sharpening the blade of our understanding in care of the other. We are all in this together, in a room full of folk, and at a party no less, where we're bound to step on toes. Maybe we were in fact designed by the LOGOS to supposed to step on toes, as there is no avoiding same at a party, this as a lesson to be humble in retrospect. "Toe stepping and the March to 4D"...my next book in a bookstore appearing soon in a neighborhood near you. The high mark of differentiation is that in an environment with true respect, there is sensitivity to the toes.

I said: Many of STS are surely sorely lacking in charisma, as this needn't be a signifier by any stretch I'm sure.

I would suggest that this is probably not the general case for STS individuals. Recall:
Ra Book III, Session 54

Questioner: A positively oriented entity may select a certain narrow path of thinking and activities during an incarnation and program conditions that would create physical pain if this were not followed. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Questioner: Would a negatively oriented entity do anything like this? Could you give me an example?

Ra: I am Ra. A negatively oriented individual mind/body/spirit complex will ordinarily program for wealth, ease of existence, and the utmost opportunity for power. Thus many negative entities burst with the physical complex distortion you call health.

However, a negatively oriented entity may choose a painful condition in order to improve the distortion toward the so-called negative emotive mentations such as anger, hatred, and frustration. Such an entity may use an entire incarnative experience honing a blunt edge of hatred or anger so that it may polarize more towards the negative or separated pole.

I tend to believe that with the relatively few exceptions referred to in the last paragraph, the nature of: wealth; ease of existence; and opportunity for power; combined with a high regard for the health of the physical body is pretty much a recipe for "charisma".

I might challenge this by offering that wealth; ease of existence; and opportunity for power; combined with a high regard for the health of the physical body as a recipe for "charisma" is not the definition of charisma. A total sloth, devoid of personality and charm, and altogether a despicable individual, may exhibit all of the above, and be barren of charm or charisma. One such as described above may in fact repel rather than attract, and yet obtain and possess all of the wealth, ease of existence; and opportunity for power; combined with a high regard for the health of the physical body, as the mark explicitly defined by Ra as that of a potential STS, not as one for a signifier of charisma.

I said: I have never met a true proficient STS'er mastered in his art. Nor would I care to.

Few people, I think, can accurately make this claim, perhaps you are one. Recall though, as you said yourself, "But it equally stands to reason that he may be more elegant at camouflaging his proficiency much like the wolf in sheep's clothing."

Were this true, as you seem to agree, then it stands to reason that he (STS'er in question) might in fact then be more than hard to miss as you stated in the earlier post, he would be impossible to recognize if so desired, and missed with intent altogether.

I said: The Ra material addressed STS at great depth and length all throughout it's teachings, I have cause to believe there was reason... "Were it not so, Ra would not have told us so", to turn a phrase.

Recall that Ra did not lead the conversations, he followed Don's lead. ...The consistent message that I hear from Ra is that All are One and all are held in the same regard by the One Infinite Creator.

I would agree Ra no doubt followed Don to be sure. But, I assume Ra would not have given this information for purely this reason alone, nor to this extent, otherwise Ra I believe would have at some point offered, at least once, that this information on STS was transient. Don's keen questioning, I suspect, drew the material out to the extent that Ra even made himself present, much less available for same. I again feel strongly it is far from transient, particularly as replete as the teachings are with respect to same.

So, I do not see STS entities as those to be necessarily avoided, pitied, disparaged, or (most of all) feared. There is a place for them in this great universe, and they play a vital role. One must always remain focused on the task at hand and remain vigilant against any and all things that may distract us from our mission and opportunities to serve.

Here I agree to some extent, with exceptions. One following one's path of the light needn't fear or disparage his brethren following his path of darkness, as this would be contrary to STO in any case. But he may choose very strongly to avoid, perhaps as a result of the diverse paths walked as a consequence, as much as he may pity (love) for the choice his darker brethren makes as regards the often less than loving consequences to his fellow brethren, who the STO'er would pity (love) , as much as (love) pity the STS'er for having inflicted and chosen same. As STO, what other choice may he offer himself?

These conversations make for grand points I think,and I thank you 3D humbly for engaging in them.

Best regards my new friend. May we sharpen our minds, while softening our hearts, as we increase in our understanding.

Q

[3D Sunset]

I might challenge this by offering that wealth; ease of existence; and opportunity for power; combined with a high regard for the health of the physical body as a recipe for "charisma" is not the definition of charisma. A total sloth, devoid of personality and charm, and altogether a despicable individual, may exhibit all of the above, and be barren of charm or charisma. One such as described above may in fact repel rather than attract, and yet obtain and possess all of the wealth, ease of existence; and opportunity for power; combined with a high regard for the health of the physical body, as the mark explicitly defined by Ra as that of a potential STS, not as one for a signifier of charisma.

True, and one could take eggs, flour, oil, sugar and chocolate and make a great mess, but add in a little time and care, and one easily comes up with cake. Now, given the ingredients above, I propose that an entity interested in domination and control of others (especially) is much more likely to look tempting, shall we say, than sloth-like.

Were this true, as you seem to agree, then it stands to reason that he (STS'er in question) might in fact then be more than hard to miss as you stated in the earlier post, he would be impossible to recognize if so desired, and missed with intent altogether.

On the contrary, I said, and maintain, that they would stand out even in a crowded room, as would a harvestable STO entity. I'm merely questioning your assertion that you've never met one. I still propose that "a significant number of people in the public eye, as it were, are such harvestable STS entities." And I suggest that one can detect them with a discerning eye.

Here I agree to some extent, with exceptions. One following one's path of the light needn't fear or disparage his brethren following his path of darkness, as this would be contrary to STO in any case. But he may choose very strongly to avoid, perhaps as a result of the diverse paths walked as a consequence, as much as he may pity (love) for the choice his darker brethren makes as regards the often less than loving consequences to his fellow brethren, who the STO'er would pity (love) , as much as (love) pity the STS'er for having inflicted and chosen same. As STO, what other choice may he offer himself?

I'm not sure that I follow your point of exception here, but I would offer the observation that the opposite of "love" is not "pity", as you seem to imply, it is "fear".

These conversations make for grand points I think,and I thank you 3D humbly for engaging in them.

Best regards my new friend. May we sharpen our minds, while softening our hearts, as we increase in our understanding.

Q

Perhaps, but I think we lost track of the original points of the thread in our verbal tennis match, which I am happy to concede at this point, as it seems that all the points are made and I'm not keeping score. As I recall, our original tangent was on the topic of karma. Is that exhausted as well? If so, then let us return to the questions of qqliudl.

Your humble servant,

3D Sunset

[Quantum]

I think we lost track of the original points of the thread in our verbal tennis match, which I am happy to concede at this point, as it seems that all the points are made and I'm not keeping score. As I recall, our original tangent was on the topic of karma. Is that exhausted as well?

I believe we are speaking to STS vs STO as a general principle, and karma as a specific? My intent is not to match, as much as explore? If explored together towards the higher goal and ground of understanding there are no points, as much as discovery?

I might challenge this by offering that wealth; ease of existence; and opportunity for power; combined with a high regard for the health of the physical body as a recipe for "charisma" is not the definition of charisma. A total sloth, devoid of personality and charm, and altogether a despicable individual, may exhibit all of the above, and be barren of charm or charisma. One such as described above may in fact repel rather than attract, and yet obtain and possess all of the wealth, ease of existence; and opportunity for power; combined with a high regard for the health of the physical body, as the mark explicitly defined by Ra as that of a potential STS, not as one for a signifier of charisma.

True, and one could take eggs, flour, oil, sugar and chocolate and make a great mess, but add in a little time and care, and one easily comes up with cake. Now, given the ingredients above, I propose that an entity interested in domination and control of others (especially) is much more likely to look tempting, shall we say, than sloth-like.

Should we wish to continue in drawing out the potential distinctions of STS vs STO, as you invite, I agree that an STS with charm "may" appear more tempting as you suggest, but needn't be "at all charming" as a rule, and am confident we could draw from an exhaustive laundry list of sloth like STS characters that history is replete with that had all or many of the qualities named by Ra as qualities of wealth, ease of comfort, etc, but that charm is not necessarily one required, and that the qualities of wealth, ease of comfort etc, in my humble opinion, were offered as signifiers of STS. Charm = equaling charisma, is not offered in this quote by Ra as a signifier of STS, as much as conjectured by your assessment that it may assist greatly in being tempting for an STS to utilize. Charm, I maintain, is a quality of a developed personality, and one that is not discernible as implying STS only, or even primarily, but one without question possessed by the developed STO personality without a desire to even consider as camouflage. His STO light would radiate to such an extent, that he indeed more so than his brethren the STS, would be hard to miss in a crowded room, and moreover he would freely give of his light/love, as opposed to potentially holding it as might an STS.

Were this true, as you seem to agree, then it stands to reason that he (STS'er in question) might in fact then be more than hard to miss as you stated in the earlier post, he would be impossible to recognize if so desired, and missed with intent altogether.

On the contrary, I said, and maintain, that they would stand out even in a crowded room,

If they may camouflage, as you seem to agree, then it stands to reason they may wish to not stand out, and thus would choose not to stand out

I'm merely questioning your assertion that you've never met one.

In my humble opinion, I've never met one. If I did, he may have chosen to camouflage, and thus operating on stealth mode such that I did not detect him?

I still propose that "a significant number of people in the public eye, as it were, are such harvestable STS entities." And I suggest that one can detect them with a discerning eye.

Same point...same response. I wouldn't know. I would offer one would instead know them with certainty by their fruit, as Jesus answered when asked "how may we know them?" As shared above, Charm is a quality of a developed personality, and one that is not discernible as implying STS only, or even primarily, but one without question possessed by the developed STO personality. His light would radiate to such an extent that he would be hard to miss.

I said: Here I agree to some extent, with exceptions. One following one's path of the light needn't fear or disparage his brethren following his path of darkness, as this would be contrary to STO in any case. But he may choose very strongly to avoid, perhaps as a result of the diverse paths walked as a consequence, as much as he may pity (love) for the choice his darker brethren makes as regards the often less than loving consequences to his fellow brethren, who the STO'er would pity (love) , as much as (love) pity the STS'er for having inflicted and chosen same. As STO, what other choice may he offer himself?

You said: I'm not sure that I follow your point of exception here, but I would offer the observation that the opposite of "love" is not "pity", as you seem to imply, it is "fear".

I imply not the antonym, but the synonym. Love and pity may be seen as congruent. The Brothers of Sorrow look down upon us of 3D out of love, and reacting from sympathetic (pity) vibrations, equal to empathetic vibrations (love), have no choice, but from both, to turn back and assist, if not become involved.

Q

[ayadew]

STS more "charming"? How can one in comparison resist being in awe of a very harmonised person. To look upon him and find peace, in all situations. To find indiscriminate love towards all. To find that which truly matters behind the transient. They are equally "charming". How could I, having been almost 100% STS, have freely chosen STO if STS was the "preferred" state. STO "personality" will develop as others reflect the love he projects. They look beaming, infused with true love. STS people must do it themselves, putting up a façade.
In this case, STO might have been even more "charming" to me... it feels like a very subjective discussion. About what the natural individual progression of the entity will be, while striving towards the one Creator.

Perhaps a more relevant discussion is if this planet has more "masters" of STS than STO. This I would be inclined to agree with. This planet is quite negative, if we look at society as a representation of our people's wishes. One often sees more STS and lukewarm activities than STO.

Quantum, your formulations are very eloquent. I'm not sure if that's your intention, my friend. I'm having a slight difficulty following your trail of words.

Peace and love.

[spero]

Hi Guys,
First post (still a little new at this)

Just thought i'd help out on the topic of karma and the STS path by introducing the following quote from a recent channeling (October 11, 2008)...

G: I’ll take the final query at this time. If it is too long or too much on the instrument’s energy, please feel free not to answer and I’ll ask it again in another session.

Ra says of karma that an entity that acts in a consciously unloving manner in action with other beings can become karmically involved. They also say that the stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. This raises an interesting question considering that in order to polarize, the negative entity is consciously attempting to exclude the energies of the heart chakra from all of its interactions with other selves.

What then is karma to the negative entity? And if the negative entity accumulates such a thing as karma, how does the negative entity alleviate karma?

We are those of Q’uo, my brother. To answer that query we must put you into the negative mindset. To the negative mindset, karma is delicious. The building up of it is delicious. There is joy in creating more karma because this is the by-product of control over others and manipulation of others. Consequently, there is no attempt to alleviate karma in the service-to-self path, but only to hone the edge of rage and anger until it is ever more penetrating and ever more effective.

May we answer you further, my brother?

G: So then, karma operates universally on third-density entities but there are two different attitudes with respect to karma?

We are those of Q’uo. That is precisely correct, my brother.

G: Thank you, Q’uo. That’s all for me.

Hope this helps,
spero

[AppleSeed]

Can't resist jumping in here - hope you don't mind.

ayadew wrote:

Perhaps a more relevant discussion is if this planet has more "masters" of STS than STO. This I would be inclined to agree with. This planet is quite negative, if we look at society as a representation of our people's wishes. One often sees more STS and lukewarm activities than STO.

Could it be that "mastery" is not a primary goal within 3D, and for the STO probably sits farther down on the top 10 list than for the STS? Don't both Ra and Quo say that it is possible, but certainly not necessary within 3D (sorry, I'm not a great quote finder)? There's mastery required in the seemingly simple task of fully opening up towards loving this place as it is with all its grit and pain, and its thick beautiful veil. Our time here is so short.

Thanks Spero for the quote, I found it very helpful!

[Quantum]

Hi Guys,
First post (still a little new at this)

Question to Quo as above: What then is karma to the negative entity? And if the negative entity accumulates such a thing as karma, how does the negative entity alleviate karma?

Answer: We are those of Q’uo, my brother. To answer that query we must put you into the negative mindset. To the negative mindset, karma is delicious. The building up of it is delicious. There is joy in creating more karma because this is the by-product of control over others and manipulation of others. Consequently, there is no attempt to alleviate karma in the service-to-self path, but only to hone the edge of rage and anger until it is ever more penetrating and ever more effective.

May we answer you further, my brother?

G: So then, karma operates universally on third-density entities but there are two different attitudes with respect to karma?

We are those of Q’uo. That is precisely correct, my brother.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope this helps,
spero

Welcome Spero. How interesting that with your one single participation thus far (meant to mean that we hope to see much more of you) that this ongoing subject may have offered a clearing of sorts (if not altogether) by putting a definitive grasp to my quandary. The answer seems elegant;almost sublimely. Understanding the question is difficult enough, while grasping the negative mindset seems almost impossible. "Karma is delicious"? How delightfully bizarre, profoundly simple, and altogether sweetly painful, to awaken to what surely was there all along. It seems to suggest, rather poetically perhaps, that while STO attempts to ascend into the light, that STS strives to descend into the darkness.

Are you familiar with the Buddhist koanes, e.g. "the sound of one hand clapping?" Karma is delicious is as dumbfounding of a koane to an STO mindset as is the sound of one hand clapping.

I am happily saddened with this knowledge, and grateful to you Spero,

Q

[ayadew]

Can't resist jumping in here - hope you don't mind.

ayadew wrote:

Perhaps a more relevant discussion is if this planet has more "masters" of STS than STO. This I would be inclined to agree with. This planet is quite negative, if we look at society as a representation of our people's wishes. One often sees more STS and lukewarm activities than STO.

Could it be that "mastery" is not a primary goal within 3D, and for the STO probably sits farther down on the top 10 list than for the STS? Don't both Ra and Quo say that it is possible, but certainly not necessary within 3D (sorry, I'm not a great quote finder)? There's mastery required in the seemingly simple task of fully opening up towards loving this place as it is with all its grit and pain, and its thick beautiful veil. Our time here is so short.

Thanks Spero for the quote, I found it very helpful!

I say "mastery" because this seems to be a topic of discussion, personally I'm quite busy with that you desribe hehe

[AppleSeed]

I say "mastery" because this seems to be a topic of discussion, personally I'm quite busy with that you desribe hehe

I realized after posting that not being a "master" I have no idea what the term means... My point (I think) was that to the STO, achieving spiritual mastery may more often be an item of lesser conscious importance at this time and place, so having a larger percentage of STS "masters" could make sense.

On the other hand, I see STO "masters" around me all the time. The comic strip Dilbert comes to mind, where the person with the most wisdom is the garbage man.

[spero]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I’m glad I could be of help

[Quantum]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I’m glad I could be of help

Your welcome for my welcome (lol). Your post this morning actually caused me much consternation and befuddlement, this during several important negotiations today (I often find myself as much engaged in conversations with self with respect to the larger questions as regards love, life, the LOO, and the deeper philosophical whatnots, as much as I do in: did I forget to turn the coffee off, and what am I doing here, all while in a board meeting, or sitting with a rather important decision).

There was much discussion on "The Attachment To Karma ,or lack thereof" as regards a successful STO or STS. But by the sentiment expressed by Quo, and by Ra below, STS in fact ingests, ravages, and to the converse, delights in the creation of ever increasing amounts of karma, this to fuel and hone his rage, like a blunt instrument. He digs his hole ever deeper, in a sense, burrowing his way to and through the other side, becoming the master of it, this by the very accumulation of karma, verses "burning it off" as would his brother of STO. He as a result is in fact EXTREMELY ATTACHED to his karma, and craves always more of it, this in an unending pathology of desiring more. And herein lay my dilemma. I was looking for "what does his karma look like" attempting to view it through STO eyes from an STO mindset. It seems it looks as horrible, pitiful, or painful as does the karma of STO.

I therefore humbly submit that perhaps all/most of us, as more leaning to STO, are in fact somewhat dense to the sublimely simple answer, that it (STS karma) in fact looks exactly the same....PAIN....SUFFERING....but with the chief difference being that STS delights in it, craves it, even when his own, to the extent of causing chaos and control through his own pain to and over others.

Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates the momentum towards the chosen path of service to self?

Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.


I can not find it in the search, but am reminded of what I believe is a Ra quote that draws the distinctions between an STS vs STO both dying of a disease. The STO utilizes his dying/disease as an opportunity to create love, togetherness, family, as well as compassion and harmony in the room and in the experience between family and health care worker alike, while the STS utilizes his dying/disease as a means to inflict rage, hostility, ugliness, disdain, and dishramony between family and health care worker alike.

Karma is karma. Pain is pain. Suffering is suffering...just like the air is the air, the sun is the sun, and the night is the night. It looks exactly the same, with the chief difference being that STS delights in it.

The exercise has been worth the effort. Thank you again Spero

Q

[Quantum]

Perhaps a more relevant discussion is if this planet has more "masters" of STS than STO. This I would be inclined to agree with. This planet is quite negative, if we look at society as a representation of our people's wishes. One often sees more STS and lukewarm activities than STO.

Peace and love.

As I feel that perhaps my original question as to "what Karma looks like" for the STS oriented entity has to a large extent been answered profoundly by the Quo reading offered by Spero, I would close by offering you ayadew this pearl of hope to your feeling above as relates to the observation in your post #38 that the planet may be more populated by STS masters than by STO, based presumably on what the news reports, verses what we perceive, to be followed up and ingrained in consciousness as true at the water cooler during lunch break:

17.23 Questioner: Can you tell me why you say that the Earth will be fourth density positive instead of fourth density negative since there seems to be much negativity here now?

Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your time/space present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.

A very famous newscaster (Walter Cronkite in a recent historical interview) was asked why the news seems so predominantly negative. He smiled and replied, "Talking about the dogs that didn't run away isn't exactly news".

Keep the faith, while casting your eyes and thoughts always upward,

Q

[ayadew]

My current view of the world might be baised, since I only recently stopped watching any kind of news. I concluded they are of extreme negative intent. As you say, "Talking about the dogs that didn't run away isn't exactly news".

I will have to observe further before I give my opinion about this again.

Many a STO wanderer is so innocent and kind that they give into others persuasion, simply to be kind and make that person feel accepted, without noticing he might become like the persuader in the process.
It is thus difficult to really see polarity in people when they're not in the extremes.

[paddy]

...It is thus difficult to really see polarity in people when they're not in the extremes...

The idea of having difficulty accessing another person's polarity may be simply a reflection of oneself that acts as catalyst for self-integration. That is, interpret the people around you as mirrors of yourself, who offer reflections that may enable greater degrees of self improvement and self acceptance. From that perspective, then the difficulty of accessing another's polarity may be the simple quandary of distinguishing the appearance of another person (as such a reflection of oneself), from the core of the person. Knowing oneself well, this distinguishing becomes easier. (Tarot seems a tool for this.)


paddy