How does the traditional concept of "ego" relate to the densities?

[sjel]

Since Ra said that to be 'harvestable' one need not be fully balanced. Does that mean that most entities who enter fourth density are still attached to their ego? And that upon shedding the ego completely (enlightenment), an entity immediately becomes able to enter sixth density and above?

Part of why I ask is because what else does Eckhart Tolle have to learn in other densities? What else does Nisargadatta have to learn? - he says that he identifies with nothing, nothing affects him, he neither gains nor loses, experiences no time or inner change. What further experience or learning could even take place in these people?

[Infinite]

I believe that ego is the itself veil, so an entity from fourth density have no third density ego.

[Aion]

15.12 Questioner: How does an individual go about balancing himself? What is the first step?

Ra: I am Ra. The steps are only one; that is, an understanding of the energy centers which make up the mind/body/spirit complex. This understanding may be briefly summarized as follows. The first balancing is of the Malkuth, or Earth, vibratory energy complex, called the red-ray complex. An understanding and acceptance of this energy is fundamental. The next energy complex, which may be blocked is the emotional, or personal complex, also known as the orange-ray complex. This blockage will often demonstrate itself as personal eccentricities or distortions with regard to self-conscious understanding or acceptance of self.

The third blockage resembles most closely that which you have called ego. It is the yellow-ray or solar plexus center. Blockages in this center will often manifest as distortions towards power manipulation and other social behaviors concerning those close and those associated with the mind/body/spirit complex. Those with blockages in these first three energy centers, or nexi, will have continuing difficulties in ability to further their seeking of the Law of One.

The center of heart, or green ray, is the center from which third-density beings may springboard, shall we say, towards infinite intelligence. Blockages in this area may manifest as difficulties in expressing what you may call universal love or compassion.

The blue-ray center of energy streaming is the center which, for the first time, is outgoing as well as inpouring. Those blocked in this area may have difficulty in grasping the spirit/mind complexes of its own entity and further difficulty in expressing such understandings of self. Entities blocked in this area may have difficulties in accepting communication from other mind/body/spirit complexes.

The next center is the pineal or indigo-ray center. Those blocked in this center may experience a lessening of the influx of intelligent energy due to manifestations which appear as unworthiness. This is that of which you spoke. As you can see, this is but one of many distortions due to the several points of energy influx into the mind/body/spirit complex. The indigo-ray balancing is quite central to the type of work which revolves about the spirit complex, which has its influx then into the transformation or transmutation of third density to fourth density, it being the energy center receiving the least distorted outpourings of love/light from intelligent energy and having also the potential for the key to the gateway of intelligent infinity.

The remaining center of energy influx is simply the total expression of the entity’s vibratory complex of mind, body, and spirit. It is as it will be, “balanced” or “imbalanced” has no meaning at this energy level, for it gives and takes in its own balance. Whatever the distortion may be, it cannot be manipulated as can the others and, therefore, has no particular importance in viewing the balancing of an entity.

[Stranger]

Since Ra said that to be 'harvestable' one need not be fully balanced. Does that mean that most entities who enter fourth density are still attached to their ego? And that upon shedding the ego completely (enlightenment), an entity immediately becomes able to enter sixth density and above?

Part of why I ask is because what else does Eckhart Tolle have to learn in other densities? What else does Nisargadatta have to learn? - he says that he identifies with nothing, nothing affects him, he neither gains nor loses, experiences no time or inner change. What further experience or learning could even take place in these people?

My take on this is: we are unable to fully or, perhaps, even partially conceive of the growth and learning entities experience in 4D, 5D or 6D.  In the same way that a rock cannot understand the challenges of an animal, and an animal cannot conceive of what humans are processing in their daily life.  Therefore an entity who attains perfect balance in 3D is like a school boy/girl who's mastered arithmetic.  Next year: welcome to algebra, trigonometry and calculus!

We're one step removed from tree apes here.  However skillfully we learn to drive these funky bodies and minds, the amount of learning remaining between us and a true grasp of the Universe around us can be reasonably approximated by infinity.

[anagogy]

Since Ra said that to be 'harvestable' one need not be fully balanced. Does that mean that most entities who enter fourth density are still attached to their ego? And that upon shedding the ego completely (enlightenment), an entity immediately becomes able to enter sixth density and above?

Part of why I ask is because what else does Eckhart Tolle have to learn in other densities? What else does Nisargadatta have to learn? - he says that he identifies with nothing, nothing affects him, he neither gains nor loses, experiences no time or inner change. What further experience or learning could even take place in these people?

The people that generally become "enlightened" are wanderers who were already close to 7th density to begin with. They've already done billions of years of incarnational school work.

The observations shared by others in this thread are entirely valid, but the ego is exactly what stands between oneself and conscious union with the cosmos. The ego is the line between WHO you are and WHERE you are. When the ego is dissolved so does that line. You become everyone and everywhere. The ego is like a barrier, or a bubble. When it is "popped", the consciousness inside the bubble, realizes its congruency with the consciousness outside of the bubble. The whole idea, or distintion, of inside and outside goes away.

The universe is entirely open and free.

The densities are just the gradual "letting go" of the attachment to separation (the ego is the belief in separation). There is no harm in it being a gradual process, by the way. It is not "higher" to race to the finish line. There is no finish line, actually.

4th density beings still very much have egos. Even sixth density beings have egos:

"We cannot say what is beyond this dissolution of the unified self with all that there is, for we still seek to become all that there is, and still are we Ra."

---

Ra:

"Free will does not allow, nor would predetermination disallow, experiential distortions. Rather the Law of Confusion offers a free reach for the energies of each mind/body/spirit complex"

"The original desire is that entities seek and become one. If entities can do this in a moment, they may go forward in a moment [...] "

"Enlightenment is of the moment, is an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?"

"However, the entity who penetrates intelligent infinity is basically capable of walking the universe with unfettered tread."

"Meanwhile the Creator lies within. In the north pole the crown is already upon the head and the entity is potentially a god. This energy is brought into being by the humble and trusting acceptance of this energy through meditation and contemplation of the self and of the Creator."

[Nau7ik]

My opinion may not be popular but that's okay...
Drop the concept of an "ego". There is no such thing. It is an empty concept. There's no solid thing there.

15.10 Questioner: Am I correct in assuming that one of the blockages [of] a mind/body/spirit complex might be due to an unbalance of, shall we say, ego, and this could be balanced using, say, a worthiness/unworthiness balance?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect.

15.11 Questioner: Can you tell me how you balance the ego?
Ra: I am Ra. We cannot work with this concept as it is misapplied and understanding cannot come from it.

A user above, Aion, has already highlighted Ra's comments on the ego. The closest thing to an ego would be third chakra blockage.
In 4D, you are transparent to yourself and others. Very interesting that it was said (by Infinite) that the veil could be said to be related to the "ego". I think there might be something to that.

[Plenum]

Part of why I ask is because what else does Eckhart Tolle have to learn in other densities? What else does Nisargadatta have to learn? - he says that he identifies with nothing, nothing affects him, he neither gains nor loses, experiences no time or inner change. What further experience or learning could even take place in these people?

I think you have to be careful here, because you don't know what someone needs to 'learn' until they are exposed to the situations that generate a learning potential.

This is how Ra describes one of the Harvest processes:

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light-bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

The way I understand this is that they 'subject' the entity to various 'scans' of frequencies, and see where it is able to be processed and utilised (integrated and re-radiated in the case of a positive entity, or absorbed and re-constituted within the self for a negative entity), and where it just 'falls flat', and the light is not recognised as a utilizable opportunity.

The greater the bandwidth and 'density' of light that that entity can usefully make use of, the more 'dense' the environment that they can actually survive and be a participant of.

So in terms of one's 'learning' regards compassion, wisdom, and power, there is much more to it than just non-attachment.  That is just one signpost to look for, in those who make claims as their inner experience, and what they have to share with others.

[anagogy]

My opinion may not be popular but that's okay...
Drop the concept of an "ego". There is no such thing. It is an empty concept. There's no solid thing there.

Even if you drop the concept of the ego, there is still the concept of identity, which does exist, even according to Ra's words. It is essentially self definition. In my opinion Ra couldn't work with the concept of ego because it has so many different definitions, many involving distortions of power. Too imprecise for their purposes.

It is ultimately an evolution of identity. Enlightenment is the shedding of all identities, essentially. The distinction between self/others, inner/outer, subject/object truly becomes nullified.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Even if you drop the concept of the ego, there is still the concept of identity, which does exist, even according to Ra's words. It is essentially self definition. In my opinion Ra couldn't work with the concept of ego because it has so many different definitions, many involving distortions of power. Too imprecise for their purposes.

It is ultimately an evolution of identity. Enlightenment is the shedding of all identities, essentially. The distinction between self/others, inner/outer, subject/object truly becomes nullified.

Even in this little thread, we see a lot of different interpretations of what the word "ego" means.

Otherwise, to the top-level point: I do agree that ego in the sense of "pride" would mostly be a 3D construct caused by the veil, but there are still a lot of variations on ego-as-identity which are probably not going away until 7D. And I sort of have my doubts as to whether an entity in 3D could become truly ego-less, but who knows?

[AnthroHeart]

Even if you drop the concept of the ego, there is still the concept of identity, which does exist, even according to Ra's words. It is essentially self definition. In my opinion Ra couldn't work with the concept of ego because it has so many different definitions, many involving distortions of power. Too imprecise for their purposes.

It is ultimately an evolution of identity. Enlightenment is the shedding of all identities, essentially. The distinction between self/others, inner/outer, subject/object truly becomes nullified.

Even in this little thread, we see a lot of different interpretations of what the word "ego" means.

Otherwise, to the top-level point:  I do agree that ego in the sense of "pride" would mostly be a 3D construct caused by the veil, but there are still a lot of variations on ego-as-identity which are probably not going away until 7D.  And I sort of have my doubts as to whether an entity in 3D could become truly ego-less, but who knows?

Certain drugs can cause at least a temporary ego-death. The experience is both infinite and terrifying from accounts. Without ego we realize we are God, and we are One. That we are Creator. The magnitude of this realization can be potentially overwhelming if you fight the experience and don't just let go into it. It is an experience as if one had actually died.

But I haven't had this experience myself, so I don't have a first hand account of it. I just am going by another's testimony that I respect. I believe he went truly ego-less for the short time the drug was active. It was 5-MeO-DMT if you're curious. It's not DMT though.

[APeacefulWarrior]

Right, maybe I should have been more clear: I know that short periods of ego death are possible, but I don't see how someone could be entirely ego-less and still function in day to day life. The vessel needs a pilot.

[Nau7ik]

My opinion may not be popular but that's okay...
Drop the concept of an "ego". There is no such thing. It is an empty concept. There's no solid thing there.

Even if you drop the concept of the ego, there is still the concept of identity, which does exist, even according to Ra's words. It is essentially self definition. In my opinion Ra couldn't work with the concept of ego because it has so many different definitions, many involving distortions of power. Too imprecise for their purposes.

It is ultimately an evolution of identity. Enlightenment is the shedding of all identities, essentially. The distinction between self/others, inner/outer, subject/object truly becomes nullified.

Yes, Ra says that there is ONLY identity, the one Creator. We are dropping that which is false in the evolution or the discovery of our true identity. A perfectly enlightened being standing against the backdrop of the Creator's Light would be totally transparent. So if we go back to what Ra said, the closest to "ego" is third chakra blockage. We do have a sense of self, but that sense of self is usually false. We think we are this body, this mind, this personality, this label or that identity (I'm a progressive, I'm a conservative, I'm a powerful banker, etc etc).

I've also wondered about whether Ra was completely discounting the concept of ego or if Ra discounted it because the term was "misapplied". Regardless, ego is not a concept I work with or ever use as a term. I'm not saying it's wrong to do so at all, but for me I dont think in terms of "ego".

[AnthroHeart]

Right, maybe I should have been more clear:  I know that short periods of ego death are possible, but I don't see how someone could be entirely ego-less and still function in day to day life.  The vessel needs a pilot.

I think in those cases are when you hear of the masters finishing their lives here and disappearing into a rainbow body from this dimension. I don't think you can remain here long if you were permanently ego-less. Although Eckhart Tolle is probably as close as they come to living without ego.

[rva_jeremy]

Does that mean that most entities who enter fourth density are still attached to their ego?

My guess is that they are, but "attached" is different than "limited by". For many of us in third density, the ego is the only identity we can apprehend. We don't have a good, solid way of understanding ourselves outside of the personality shell usually. I imagine in fourth density the ego is much more a narrowly-construed yellow ray vehicle. We're not trapped in the vehicle because we have an identity above and beyond it; we can take the ego on and off. Perhaps it is in some ways the yellow ray equivalent of the magical personality, something we don and remove in order to manifest and act yellow ray.

From my reading of Confederation transmissions thus far, I have to say as a side note how struck I am by their acceptance of the ego as a necessary, positive part of our experience. Their advice seems to always be not so much about shedding the ego or becoming egoless as much as putting the proper emphasis on it. It is the exclusive identification with the ego that seems for them much, much, much more problematic than simply having an ego. They describe it as a defense mechanism, too, so it's entirely possible that without anything to defend in fourth density, its character and utility changes mightily.

I'm gonna throw this excerpt on the pile since, while it may not directly apply to your question specifically, it's a nice taste of the attitude with which those of the Confederation regard the ego:

Each of you in the group, that has come to planet Earth at this time together, is a highly disciplined person. Ego is useful for being a chemical being upon a chemical planet. To be totally without ego would be somewhat awkward. We do not fear ego or ask you to dismantle it. We ask you to be aware of the way it works in your life. And when you feel that you have become offensive because of it, correct that action. That is all you need to worry about, in ego. If you are giving information to others, you may become tired of the sound of your voice. You may feel that you are showing off your information or your knowledge. But we ask you, why do you think that you had that information? Be humble in your heart and know that you are nothing without the Creator but clay and dust. But know also that you are a perfect created being. Do not be proud of the dust, but be unafraid to share the joy of being a child of God.

We ask you in all sincerity to have confidence and not to worry about your ego, but simply to analyze your actions in each case. And when you have determined whether your ego or your love was working, adjust your behavior accordingly. For you are not in a situation where others will understand you and it would do you no good to speak to others. Thus, you must be your own disciplinarian. You are always able to speak at any time on the physical plane with those others of your group with whom you came. If there is a question that you cannot penetrate, we urge you to speak to the one known as Don or any of the others in your group. And we assure you that we will send you our thoughts, if you ask us. But most of all, you must have the confidence to realize that you know the score, and that you are too much a student of life to allow something that has been a rather beautiful and loving existence up to this point [to] become marred by excessive egoism.

We are aware that you have been egotistic in the past; so has everyone that is incarnate in a chemical universe. Ego is a defense mechanism, it is a separator. Without ego you would become the proverbial doormat.

Know who you are, let your ego speak, but then let it be quiet. Simply see the balance between too little and too much. We are aware that many Eastern religions encourage the total abolishment of ego. This is all very well and good in a culture where the holy are fed. In your particular culture, the holy are normally considered quite insane, thus, retain your protective coloration and your ego [as] part of that. For you cannot function unless the society perceives you as normal. But know in your heart who you are. And let not your ego tell you that you have limitations.

Hatonn, September 13, 1979

[anagogy]

I think in those cases are when you hear of the masters finishing their lives here and disappearing into a rainbow body from this dimension. I don't think you can remain here long if you were permanently ego-less. Although Eckhart Tolle is probably as close as they come to living without ego.

I can't speak for Tolle, but I would speculate that the difference for such expressions is akin to the difference between a standing pool of water, and a moving stream of water moving through a "dip" or eddy in the contour of the stream. In the second case, the dip is a constant flowing, never static, phenomenon. At death, the contour is no longer there to dip through. In the first case, the water is simply poured into a different pool, or container (reincarnation). The container, of necessity, creates some "seeming" self definition (to outward observers -- they see the movement through the dip and see it as an object). In one, the identity is rooted in some degree of unchangingness (identity resists change because change threatens identity). In the other, the identity is unchanging in its constant changingness. Changingness and unchangingness have come to be congruent phenomena in some strange and wonderful way.

[sjel]

Know who you are, let your ego speak, but then let it be quiet. Simply see the balance between too little and too much. We are aware that many Eastern religions encourage the total abolishment of ego. This is all very well and good in a culture where the holy are fed. In your particular culture, the holy are normally considered quite insane, thus, retain your protective coloration and your ego [as] part of that. For you cannot function unless the society perceives you as normal. But know in your heart who you are. And let not your ego tell you that you have limitations.

Hatonn, September 13, 1979

Great points Jeremy. I've read several variations of the above concept in just the last week - the fact that the Western and Eastern spiritual cultures are fundamentally worlds apart. To blindly apply one's system to the other culture is absurd and can be self-destructive (especially applying East to West, where they often advocate sitting meditation and mindful inactivity for the majority of the day- that simply would not work in most of America!

4th density beings still very much have egos. Even sixth density beings have egos:

"We cannot say what is beyond this dissolution of the unified self with all that there is, for we still seek to become all that there is, and still are we Ra."

So Ra technically isn't enlightened??? :O And perhaps could be considered less spiritually evolved than Nisargadatta?

[anagogy]

So Ra technically isn't enlightened??? :O And perhaps could be considered less spiritually evolved than Nisargadatta?

Did you know that in many forms of Buddhism that while it is not exactly a theistic religion by any means they do not necessarily deny the existence of "the gods" as it were, but that enlightenment is actually more possible for a being born into the human realm than the god realm? The life of the gods are extremely long and pleasurable, but the pleasure actually becomes the downfall, or hindrance, to these more etiolated realms of existence. It actually slows down forward progress. It takes extremely good karma to elevate one to these realms (lots of service to others), however, the personality actually becomes, strangely enough, stronger in these higher realms in certain ways. The personality becomes more pure, more cognitively capable, but a being like Ra has essentially become a super personality -- the fused amalgamation of an entire race of beings. Such a personality, though it be pure in its desire for service to others, and existing in a far more pleasant realm of existence than 3rd density, is actually more difficult to dissolve into the cosmos. You might consider the analogy represented by e=mc2, wherein as something is accelerated to the speed of light, it requires infinitely increasing amounts of more energy to keep accelerating it, as mass increases without bound, to infinity, as well. There is always a give and take. The bigger the vessel, (or personality) the more it takes to accelerate it.   

---

Ra: [...] The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher-density catalyst.

---

Ra: [...] More importantly, the time/space mind/body/spirit analog, which is evoked as the magical personality, has its only opportunity to gain rapidly from the experience of the catalytic action available to the third-density space/time mind/body/spirit. Thus the adept is aiding the Creator greatly by offering great catalyst to a greater portion of the creation which is identified as the mind/body/spirit totality of an entity.

---

The catalyst of our realm is extremely intense, and powerful. Even more intense for a wanderer because their spirits are attuned to the more harmonized vibrational realms. If it can overcome this extreme harshness, the potential for spiritual acceleration is immense. But there is also a downside to this -- a being may, if it becomes lost, be potentially caught up in the planetary karmic vibration, and repeat the 3rd density cycle as a truly 3rd density being. Where there is potential reward, there is a corresponding potential risk to such "wandering". Note that negative beings will almost never engage in such wandering, because not only are they not interested in such enlightenment, or shedding of all identity barriers, or service to others (the usual overarching reason for wandering) they fear the the forgetting.

The question is a bit like the question: if Jesus was a 4th density wanderer and you are 6th density wanderer, does that make you more spiritually evolved than Jesus? Do you feel more spiritually evolved than Jesus? It feels almost wrong to make the comparison wouldn't you say? Even though it technically might be literally true. Something is lost in translation when you reduce it to such terms. But it is a very good question, nonetheless.

[Aion]

Right, maybe I should have been more clear:  I know that short periods of ego death are possible, but I don't see how someone could be entirely ego-less and still function in day to day life.  The vessel needs a pilot.

I have heard of individuals which are the heads of their traditional practices, in particular Mayan, and the 'head' is basically non-stop existing at 'Creator Level' and they have attendants. The Aghori are maybe a good example of those who achieve this consistently. I heard the current Mayan head is an enourmous guy who spends most of the time sitting in meditation. It is true that it is not possible to function in day to day life that way and why those who realize these states are typically not living in 'regular' society. These are people who stay away from the world in order to be vessels. It is usually considered both a sacred honour and a heavy responsibility. Not easy to be a prophet/oracle/wiseperson.