Elder Race

[unity100]

Unity, a quick reply.

I disagree. Firstly, you've turned this:

..requires a certain degree of self determination.

.. into this...

when you accept enslavement, you cannot have self determination

You're making deductions/generalisations and passing them as Ra's own words.

i think you have not read the quotes attentively :

there is no positive harvest possible in a negative majority harvest, because positive polarity requires a certain degree of self determination. since there is no positive polarity possible, it does mean that in negative majority harvests, that level of self determination is not possible.

and, what is being offered to the confederation, is not a situation at a negative majority harvest - they are being offered enslavement by an outfit that has entire range from 3d negative to 5d negative - the control approximates absolute levels.

Secondly, Ra may not have been talking of an Earth incarnation, the statement was in the context of the entire universe :¬) There could be conditions vastly different to ours that infringe far more on one's free will (i.e. constant torture), which make it vastly harder to polarise.

the question is of a self determination question. it doesnt matter how the enslavement happens. if you are not able to self determine to an acceptable extent, you cant polarize positively.

in the case of enslavement, you cant have that self determination - it wouldnt matter whether you accept what is thrown at you or not - it is not a choice.

Thirdly, your deduction implies that a person born into slavery/captivity cannot polarise positively. I would assume one born into such a circumstance, regardless of their captors or controllers, could still choose love. I would also assume that, given those STS conditions, managing to choose love would be an incredibly powerful means of polarisation.

thats highly unlikely. manifesting green ray requires yellow ray being open. if you are not able to afford enough level of yellow ray, which will require you being able to choose, you wont be able to 'choose love'. 'mentally', maybe, but it wont be a polarization in the sense that is needed. it is a situation thats energetical.

Just as Jesus 'made the grade' for forgiving his captor(s)/killer(s) upon his death, even after taking the life of another.

is it where your misconception about positive polarization under slavery comes from ?

jeshsuah did not 'make the grade' of 4d harvest. he was already 5d harvestable. and, he did not accept enslavement - he accepted being killed. this, is a lesson in wisdom. he was at the brink of 5d, after being able to polarize positively while having choice in 3d, and 4d like the other positive harvestees.

.............

this discussion is actually moot - if, positive polarization under enslavement was possible, there would be positive harvestees in negative majority harvests.

---

I know, in the deepest part of my heart, that I have to help the world change. And I am not going to sit and wait for a glorious day of harvest where it all disappears; I am going to work to make it disappear myself.

Amen to that brother. One must take responsibility :¬)

how would you take responsibility 2 months pending to maldek's destruction ?

[Bring4th_Austin]

how would you take responsibility 2 months pending to maldek's destruction ?

Not knowing the destruction is inevitable, I would work to prevent it.

[Namaste]

Unity, there is a misunderstanding between our offered perspectives. I am talking of polarising positively (not in the context of the harvest) when under difficult circumstances in 3D Earth. Any entity incarnated here is partial to 3D laws - including Jesus.

[Jesus] was absolved karmically of the destruction of an other-self when it was in the last portion of lifetime and spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma.

Can you clarify; are you implying that - as an example - when held captive, an entity giving love towards the persons holding them captive will not polarise them positively?

how would you take responsibility 2 months pending to maldek's destruction ?

Exactly as ABTF states. How else can one take responsibility? Help those who ask for help (albeit physically, emotionally or mentally), keeping one's own vibration as positive as possible.

How would you help?

[unity100]

[Jesus] was absolved karmically of the destruction of an other-self when it was in the last portion of lifetime and spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma.

in case you arent aware, this is not an energetic situation. it pertains to karma.

Can you clarify; are you implying that - as an example - when held captive, an entity giving love towards the persons holding them captive will not polarise them positively?

it is not a matter of polarizing THEM. it is a matter of polarizing the entity itself.

the entity does not have self determination.

Exactly as ABTF states. How else can one take responsibility? Help those who ask for help (albeit physically, emotionally or mentally), keeping one's own vibration as positive as possible.

How would you help?

the proper course of action there would be all entities getting harvested through death at the time of the harvest. this would saved the planet from destruction, allowed any harvestable to get harvested, and saved all the others from getting tangled into a knot of fear.

of course, this assumes the planet would be able to withstand until the hour of the harvest.

[Bring4th_Austin]

the proper course of action there would be all entities getting harvested through death at the time of the harvest. this would saved the planet from destruction, allowed any harvestable to get harvested, and saved all the others from getting tangled into a knot of fear.

of course, this assumes the planet would be able to withstand until the hour of the harvest.

How exactly is this something within our power?

[Unbound]

Oy vey, I feel some of you may so buried in your questions you may miss the flight out!

[Bring4th_Austin]

Azrael, this forum is for discussion! We are discussing! What's wrong with that?

[unity100]

the proper course of action there would be all entities getting harvested through death at the time of the harvest. this would saved the planet from destruction, allowed any harvestable to get harvested, and saved all the others from getting tangled into a knot of fear.

of course, this assumes the planet would be able to withstand until the hour of the harvest.

How exactly is this something within our power?

that is a question of wisdom. it may or may not be within your power.

however, all entities' collective desires sum up to the factors acting on an experiential nexus. this, may affect the choices those entities take. such as destroying a planet in the end or not, and many many moooreeee ...

[kycahi]

Azrael, this forum is for discussion! We are discussing! What's wrong with that?

LOL

As long as you have a life in the real world.

[3DMonkey]

Azrael, this forum is for discussion! We are discussing! What's wrong with that?

LOL

As long as you have a life in the real world.

Uh......oh........ Excuse me. I think I made a mistake......

[Unbound]

I only offer gentle reminders.

[Bring4th_Austin]

Azrael, this forum is for discussion! We are discussing! What's wrong with that?

LOL

As long as you have a life in the real world.

Real....world?

[Raman]

It is interesting. I see the gradual vs sudden as a choice about 3d tolerance. A date is given --very precise..obscured just enough to basically make it a choice. It is even more that tolerating and wishing 3d to continue is about an acceptance of evolution and then evolution per se becomes a choice. Is it just the old e-v-o-l-u-t-i-on (read veeeryyy sloooooow) or the clock striking determined to reach the creator...is it the e-v-o-l-u-t-i-on from below or Evolution from above?

This even applies to a fairly peaceful 3d existence such like Ra's in Venus...are you really ready for 4d if you only see 3d as "commom sense" (culturally inherited)...are you getting enough "self-determination"?

Isn't just a contradiction, a paradox...to be afraid of losing the 3d body the 3d existance and then claiming to be ready for 4d? Being so attached to 3d? Is not just logical for you if you feel so comfortable with 3d continuing for you to remain in 3d? Is not what many are really asking for? In spite of being given a date...a formula? (all are harvested regardless) a mechanic "the striking of the clock upon the hour") still many claim (most? we are told harvest is small) that it is against evolution...in spite of you being told evolution is not what it seems...Is one ready to leave 3d? It is so interesting this "gestalt" about Harvest...it is indeed a choice...

[Bring4th_Austin]

Interesting post Raman, but there are two sides to that coin.

You put tolerating 3D and wishing 3D to continue in the same boat, and I must point out the fault in that. They are different things, and one may do both, or one, or the other. For someone who wishes to end suffering, wanting 3D to continue would be silly.

But the sudden vs. gradual debate could be linked to 3D tolerance, no? To be completely candid, for a long time, I was a very strong proponent for the instant transition, because I wanted it so bad. I wanted so bad to experience something different. I wanted so bad to be elevated from the suffering. I wanted so bad to be rid of this constrictive 3D body, 3D incarnation, and just move to the next step. I wanted all the problems to be solved for me so I could sit back and enjoy flying around in a 4D body, just enjoying the love.

But I meditated a lot on this, and realized it was my intolerance of 3D which was leading me to reject a gradual transition theory. I wasn't looking at the evidence objectively, I was looking at it very subjectively. I believed that there was going to be an instant transition because I wanted to believe it.

Who is afraid to lose their 3D body? I surely am not. I'd love to be rid of it. But should that be what determines what I believe? Should I let my intolerance of my 3D body distract me from the service I am here to provide?

The world is suffering, and I would love to just sit and meditate, and think, "Oh goody goody, this will all be over soon...any day now, the suffering will end. Any day now, this will all be different, and we can start our 4D lives fresh and renewed, we don't have to do anything!"

But what if that day comes, and we're still here? And there's still suffering? Will I re-evaluate the date, and say, "Oh, just a miscalculation...it will be here soon...the suffering will end soon." And I live out my days, waiting, waiting for the suffering to end...waiting, waiting for a 4D society to enjoy.

I don't care what Ra says. I don't care what I draw from Ra's words. I will not wait. I will not believe that the suffering will end itself. I will not believe that our 3D society does not have to be transmuted to a 4D society. I will work. I will pour my heart into creating the reality, I will not wait for the reality to be created for me.


I would love a 4D body right now. I would love to have an instant transition into a harmonious 4D sphere, where everything is beautiful and the suffering is gone. I don't fear the idea of instant evolution. I have absolutely no fear of death. What I fear is that I will have spent my incarnation not doing as much as I could to change the world, to relieve the suffering, and to make a peaceful 4D future a reality.

[Raman]

Did not like this post I deleted.

[Ankh]

It is interesting at this point to note that we are given a date October 28 2011...Indeed precise.

Raman, you keep talking about this date. What is your source for this date? What will happen at this exact date? I am not going to lie to you. As soon as I see any dates, my defense mechanism rises and I get extremely sceptical. Well, no wonder perhaps, is not a dategiving a kind of a hallmark of STS based information? Anyway, where did you get this date?

[Meerie]

According to Calleman, the Mayan calendar ends then
http://www.calleman.com/content/articles...cycles.htm

[unity100]

But what if that day comes, and we're still here? And there's still suffering? Will I re-evaluate the date, and say, "Oh, just a miscalculation...it will be here soon...the suffering will end soon." And I live out my days, waiting, waiting for the suffering to end...waiting, waiting for a 4D society to enjoy.

if that day comes, and we are still here, we keep going on. we would keep going on even if we knew that everything pertaining to this particular experiential nexus ended at that date. we would keep going on even if we knew that the experience would end tomorrow. we would do what we could do.

the date is not particularly relevant to what we would do. what we would do is relevant to our polarization and spiritual expertise in whatever our spirit has become apt at.

but my point is, we should be ready for all kinds of possibilities. like, gateway opening and being able to reach that gateway at a point in time soon and infinite intelligence calling.

[Namaste]

I will work. I will pour my heart into creating the reality, I will not wait for the reality to be created for me.

Wonderful words, brother. I am working for this cause too.

There is a simple quote you will have all heard many, many times. It's one that I hold very close to me.

"Be the change you want to see in the world"

Simple, profound, and beautiful. As is the nature of all truths.

[BlatzAdict]

i wish i came to this thread earlier.

As per hidden hand's suggestion I've started reading the book of chuang tzu.
i was really curious to read about what vbaba had to say.
Sometimes the way you guys ask questions can be drilling, and it made me think of a part of the book I just passed. The way questions are asked can be ignorant of how it might make the other person feel, as opposed to the pure logical content. We forget when dealing with other selves, that they won't necessarily react the way we would as if we are asking ourselves the very same questions.

Coming from a place of channeling is tough, there is fear involved in the subconscious, where they would be prone to thinking something like.... Is any of the information coming from me true? As channelers themselves can and are baffled as to where the information comes from, thru who.. I feel the tone of the questions here probably pushed this vbaba person to feel threatened.

---

I want to share this excerpt of profound intensity from the book of chuang tzu

"Do you know how virtue is ruined, or where knowledge comes from? Virtue is ruined by game and knowledge comes from argument. Struggling for fame, people destroy each other, and knowledge is used for argument. Both of them are used for evil and you should have nothing to do with them. You may have great virtue and unquestionable sincerity. You may be kind hearted and without interest in fame, but if you do not understand how people feel and think, you will do harm, not good. Such people try to force the people to be benevolent, to act properly and impose laws, and as a result they end up being hated precisely because they care about others. This is known as hurting others. Those who hurt will themseles be hurt and this is likely to be what will happen to you!"

'Imagine, he could be the sort of king who values the good and hates the bad, so what point would there be in you trying to make him change his ways? Keep your advice for yourself. Kings and princes tend to assume they are right and will do al they can to win. You will find your eyes dazzled, your colour changing and your mouth trying to fight fire with fire, or water with water. This is to pile more on to more. Once you do this, you will be unable to argue with him again. Your words will be of no avail, for he will not believe them. As a result, you will be killed by a dictator like this."

---

i realize how much this mirrors me as well... something i've decided to take on learning in light of .. my own events and these events, and just the past 6 months.

[Oceania]

i agree in general. i just don't think it's that simple. vbaba is also responsible for his reaction. does he fear or love the responses. that's what you said to the witch.

[Bring4th_Austin]

One of the very first things vbaba said, to 3DM to be taken as advice, was "Question everything!".

Did she mean "...except me."?

[Raman]

Aren't we all doing that...