From He who established the Tarot

[Shin'Ar]

When ye have freed thy soul from its bondage,
know that for ye the darkness is gone.
Ever through space ye may seek wisdom,
bound not be fetters forged in the flesh.

Mysteries there are in the Cosmos
that unveiled fill the world with their light.
Let he who would be free from the bonds of darkness
first divine the material from the immaterial,
the fire from the earth;
for know ye that as earth descends to earth,
so also fire ascends unto
fire and becomes one with fire.
He who knows the fire that is within
himself shall ascend unto the eternal fire
and dwell in it eternally.

Hark ye, O man, and know of thy bondage,
know how to free thyself from the toils.
Out of the darkness shall ye rise upward,
one with the Light and one with the stars.

[Plenum]

this is a good poem.

[Richard]

That ol' Thoth...he does get around considering his age.

One of my favorites...

Lift thou thine eyes to the Cosmos.
Lift thou thine eyes to the Light.
Speak in the words of the Dweller,
the chant that calls down the Light.
Sing thou the song of freedom.
Sing thou the song of the Soul.
Create the high vibration
that will make thee One with the Whole.
Blend all thyself with the Cosmos.
Grow into ONE with the Light.
Be thou a channel of order,
a pathway of LAW to the world.

Richard

[Shin'Ar]

When ye have freed thy soul from its bondage,
know that for ye the darkness is gone.
Ever through space ye may seek wisdom,
bound not be fetters forged in the flesh.

Mysteries there are in the Cosmos
that unveiled fill the world with their light.
Let he who would be free from the bonds of darkness
first divine the material from the immaterial,
the fire from the earth;
for know ye that as earth descends to earth,
so also fire ascends unto
fire and becomes one with fire.
He who knows the fire that is within
himself shall ascend unto the eternal fire
and dwell in it eternally.

Hark ye, O man, and know of thy bondage,
know how to free thyself from the toils.
Out of the darkness shall ye rise upward,
one with the Light and one with the stars.

There are many who dislike the calling of the Ancients to free from the bondage of darkness. But that is often the result of misunderstanding of the darkness to which the Ancients referred.

In my opinion, if we can learn one thing from this experience as human, it should be that opinion and interpretation do not establish truth. And misunderstanding does not alter the reality of truth.

Memory is information to be discerned, not individual experiences of creating parallel realities, as some imply. Memory may be unique to individual experience, but just because one remembers an apple being orange, does not mean that in reality and truth the apple was not really red. Perception designs memory, not reality. Divine Process designs reality.

So those misinterpretations of darkness, righteousness, morality, STS, STO, free choice, duality, etc., do not establish truth and reality
around those misconceptions. They are nothing more than misunderstanding.

When the Ancients attempt to reveal the cycle of darkness to us, they do not discern the degrees to which their revelations may or may not be distorted, they simply advise and teach based upon their understandings.

The baggage we attach to those messages are our individual problems.

So those who might take offense or be swayed from further study of such teachings, will miss out on the truth behind the information being offered.

Others will seek to understand the message and might come to learn great truths about their true reality and design. Truths that extend far beyond the limits of the human experience within the Grand Design of the infinite universe.

Ever through space ye may seek wisdom,
bound not be fetters forged in the flesh.

There is so much more awaiting than this experience of the flesh. the flesh is just one experience of many on a long and endless journey of the One.


Let he who would be free from the bonds of darkness
first divine the material from the immaterial,


To understand the temporary aspect of the flesh, one must come to understand the difference between the material and the immaterial. And as humans this has always been done through the acknowledgment of earth and sun, matter and Spirit.


Hark ye, O man, and know of thy bondage,
know how to free thyself from the toils.
Out of the darkness shall ye rise upward,
one with the Light and one with the stars.

No one is suggesting that the flesh is bad or evil. Or that there is not much to benefit from the experiences offered in the flesh. This is one part of a infinite process evolving. The flesh is of the earth, of matter, or darkness/reincarnation as human flesh. The earthly aspect of the Divine Process of the evolving One.

The spirit is of the Sun, the Light, the Infinite Spirit, the Sacred Fire that dances within the form of every creation. Nwyfre. It is the life and awareness of the One Consciousness. The Infinite Energy of the Infinite Source. The spark of creation, born from the Creator, in every form or creation.

Bondage is in not knowing this, and prolonging the human experience through ignorance of the Grander Process.


Let he who would be free from the bonds of darkness
first divine the material from the immaterial,

This is the Alchemy of the Ancients, and the message relayed here by Great Thoth.

Blend the two aspects of creation, spirit and matter, observe and experience what becomes, but learn from the experiment, and come to understand the Design and Process, so that you see more than than one ingredient of many possibilities.

To become the alchemist that never learns from his experiments, and continues over and over, again and again, to perform the same mixing with the same results, and never seeing the bigger picture, is to become one trapped in the bondage of ignorance and the cycle of darkness.

It has nothing to do with evil flesh or dark paths.

Darkness, and those referred to as dark Ones, does not translate into concepts of evil or righteousness. It simply refers to choices made which result in the absence and retardation of ascending and evolving into the Spirit/Light, as we are all designed to do.


Out of the darkness shall ye rise upward,
one with the Light and one with the stars.

This is my understanding of the teachings of Thoth, and not meant to be the preaching of any particular religion, or for the purpose of recruiting anyone into any following. These are my thoughts and speculations, as are yours when you read this yourself and discern what is said here.

What is stated here should not be taken as an attack on anyone's thoughts that might be in contradiction to the thought process revealed here. No attack is meant. Every mind is free to discern and I would not impose my thinking upon anyone's choice to think differently.

But I do take advantage of the opportunity to express my own, seeing as how this thread was bumped by someone else's thought process.

[Tenet Nosce]

To understand the temporary aspect of the flesh, one must come to understand the difference between the material and the immaterial. And as humans this has always been done through the acknowledgment of earth and sun, matter and Spirit.

I don't know how authentic the Rider-Waite tarot deck is to the original images, however "The Devil" card seems to me most representative of addiction to the flesh. I observe that the chains about their necks are large enough to be able to be cast off at any time, therefore I conclude that the man and woman remain there voluntarily.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Tenet Nosce]

Speaking of alchemy... has anybody seen this?

The Book of Aquarius

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Shin'Ar]

I would perhaps add to this my own observances of the Lesser Work of the Alchemist is done. The whole first phase of the Alchemical process includings the first breaking down of the Primal Matter, done in an athanor (the body), and kept at an even temperature. In this first phase, the material is broken down again and again until it is in its base materials, going through the same process time and time again. (When alchemists distill, and redistill water over and over it supposedly creates "heavy water" which is one speculation for aging). This phase not only breaks down the matter in to its refined, usable components but more important within the alchemist themselves they develop a patience, and an understanding of substance as process that few have.

However, I have one major qualm I have with what you are expressing here is the neglect of the fact that change is constant, and so it is both impossible to do the "same thing" again and again, and also impossible to get the "same results". Experiences and results may be similar, or recognizable, but they are never the same. If ever you have an experience repeated, I guarantee that in each experience is a new gem of wisdom that may be added to the pile, however in this case, the OBSERVATION of the Alchemist is what is especially important to develop with the Lesser Work.

That being said, the undynamic view of one being either in growth or in stagnation seems to me to be a little bland, although I obviously understand the simplification.

Naturally, I can see that what you see is to inform people that they are much more than human, and that the root of what we are is not in our bodily forms, but in our spirits. That being said, in my personal belief, I don't think that when we "ascend" that we cease to use or experience bodily forms, or that we permanently become something "not of flesh".

"fetters forged in the flesh."

This is a very interesting line here. "Fetters" are a word for chains, or restriction. When something is forged it is heated nearly to the point of melting, so the new state of the molecules becomes strong and solid as it cools, like when a muscle is worked and strengthens. In this case, I think we can think of it in terms of the conditions that result from the forging. A sword that has been forged will have a very strong, cohesive molecular structure, and this strength thus then becomes inherent in the blade due to the forging process. I would also like to add an interesting bit that the intense flame of the forge can be likened to the Sacred Fire.

This being said, it was the Spirit which forged the flesh, and inherent in the flesh (as a result of the forging, once again which is a heating up then CONDENSATION of molecules), are the fetters that are a natural result of the patterns of the body. That being said, it is of the utmost to really stop and consider, WHAT are the restrictions and limitations of the body? It is not here the flesh itself that is the fetters, it is the natural limitations of the flesh that are the fetters.

---

Also interesting to consider here it says "in the flesh", suggesting that the limitations of the flesh only actually appear once you are incarnate. Outside of incarnation, it is very possible that each body is seen as perfect and without limitation, it is then only the personal identification with the body within incarnation that creates the fetters.

Azrael you are accurate in certain points, although you see them as opposition to what I have said when they really are not. For example clarification of what you mean when you speak of flesh, which then leads to the discussion about reincarnation.

However your pint about performing experimentation that always leads to change adheres to my suggestion that change is the goal. With every experiment there is the goal of seeking the result and consequence of said experiment. This is the very definition of experimenting.

But you suggest that it is the experimenting that is the thing one should be seeking regardless of the ever changing aspect of it and the time involved experimenting in one dimension, whereas Thoth is suggesting that the goal of alchemy is not the simple experimentation, but to discover the truth behind the results which are revealed in the experiment. That truth in my opinion being that the human is a temporary part of a much more complex Process, and one in which the human will be left far behind to become much higher forms of creation.

Our differences of thought are there. you seem to think that even in mush higher states of evolved consciousness that the human remains as a higher state of being. Why do you think this? Or is this your way of pointing out that there are ancient consciousnesses which do choose to return to human form for whatever reasons?

The forging of the human is not the forging of its flesh and blood, it is the forging of the consciousness which uses the human vessel in this dimension. It is the evolving consciousness that is the grade of the steel and the mettle of the blade. Not the holder that the sword is placed in.

I compare the blacksmith to the ancient teacher, whereas you are comparing the blacksmith to the beautician that makes the body look appealing.

The breaking down of matter does not mean that it cannot be broken down forever without at some point coming to its core origin. At some point the body is nothing more than molecular DNA. if that is actually a scientific term.

Within that blob of gel exists the true nature of the human body and it has nothing to do with flesh and blood. Just as the tempered blade has nothing to do with the flesh and blood that forged it besides the process of forging, the human has nothing to do with the flesh and blood it wears besides the Divine Process in which it is caught up.

Be aware that this is only my speculation of course and not in any way an attempt to get you to believe anything I have to speculate on.

---

To understand the temporary aspect of the flesh, one must come to understand the difference between the material and the immaterial. And as humans this has always been done through the acknowledgment of earth and sun, matter and Spirit.

I don't know how authentic the Rider-Waite tarot deck is to the original images, however "The Devil" card seems to me most representative of addiction to the flesh. I observe that the chains about their necks are large enough to be able to be cast off at any time, therefore I conclude that the man and woman remain there voluntarily.

tenet I would suggest that you are reading more into it than necessary.

In my opinion, where there are chains, the suggestion of bondage is represented regardless of how big their necks might be or how large the chains are.

Certain symbols designate certain meanings. But I would not want to use the card to speculate on the man's ability to procreate based upon the penis size shown there.

Just my thoughts TN, but I do think that such has been the demise of the true tarot, diluted with far too much personal speculation on way too many recreated images.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Shin'Ar]

I think what you are doing is using the word human in the way that I would use it as consciousness.

It seems strange to me that you understand the fundamentals of Sacred Geometry and the One Consciousness and yet continue to speak of the human form as one of never ending process. I guess I am just missing something that you are elaborating on to a degree that i am unable to keep up. And believe me that lately that is not unusual for me.

In my thinking, all creation is vibration no matter what form it takes. the human one is just another of many vibrations our consciousness will experience in its evolution. I do not divorce the arm and the blade, I simply define them differently. I see them as process and result whereas you seem to see them as one and the same. I do not see Process as Creation, I see Creation as a result of the process.

Incarnation is an incubation period and at some point the thing being created must leave the incubator and evolve. To remain in the incubation period forever is to never grow into the experiences awaiting outside of the incubator.

In Sacred Geometry what we find is that in the transfiguration of the one form, the center does not reveal itself where it should, and when applying the golden ratio the true forms are then revealed. Process cannot be ignored. To transfigure from one form to another, from one vibration to another, a process is involved and the human vibration is experiencing one aspect of many in the transforming of matter to spirit.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Shin'Ar]

I see all forms as never-ending process, indeed, that is what form is, motion! Geometry is relationships within that motion. If you have stillness, there is only a point, which is the beginning and end of Geometry.

You are associating the progress with the "leaving behind" of the human form, e.g., evolving, in to some new form, I presume. To me, I am viewing the progress as the progress of my spirit, that which is behind the human form, which is geometrizing to give rise to the human form. The Human Form Matrix is a vehicle/instrument/tool for the development and transmutation of rougher, denser consciousness, or rather, more restrictive geometry, in to that which is more malleable and self intelligent. Humans are Souls in the Womb. We are Souls growing here, within these bodies, and we are creating them.

In my awareness, the human form is a gateway. It isn't just a randomly decided body, which we have unfortunately become entrapped in. (Although that is a convenient story for some.) The Human Form was specially and precisely designed to fulfill vast potentials of Creation. There is a level to the Human Form that gives it access to Infinity, and to unlimited potential.

Think about what you are speaking about for a second. You say there are vast potentials and experiences beyond being human, and sure this is true, but I guarantee you that you could access all of it through humans. Humans are active parts of the Mind of the Creator.

I think I can only best explain this by suggesting that the Human Form is based on the Golden Spiral. The Human Form is a configuration of numbers and ratios which allows us to mutate, to evolve within our lifetimes beyond our flesh. A Human is a God Child, and of course, as Consciousness grows, the option to stop using a bipedal, mammalian form (which to me, is not what a Human is, as to me a Human is not to be identified with its body but with the Human Essence, and Spirit, which is the Creator's Spirit Which We Are) inevitably is available, but I would say that there are many in the universe who are quite fond of the form.

---

My friend, Shin'Ar, what does it mean to be human? Ask yourself this, all the things that Human implicates. Do you only think of experiences you have had with your body, or do you include all the experiences of your consciousness, which is truly what makes you Human?

---

I would note that Thoth does not refer to the "fetters of being human", but rather the "fetters of the flesh".

---

Oh! If you are still confused, this may be a hint. Every piece of consciousness, no matter where it is in infinity, has been, is, or will be, Human at some point in time, and so, it is a level that the Entirety of Existence can relate to INTELLIGENTLY.

---

Also, in relation to my incubation reference, does the chicken that is the egg only become a chicken once it is incubated? No, it is a chicken as soon as it comes in to existence, the only difference is whether or not its potential is actualized through nature's intention. The Chicken and the Egg co-exist, and arrived at the same time.

Yes I see now that what I expected is the cause of my confusion over your thinking.

When you apply the term human, you are not using it in the sense that many others do.

You said, "A Human is a God Child, and of course, as Consciousness grows, the option to stop using a bipedal, mammalian form (which to me, is not what a Human is, as to me a Human is not to be identified with its body but with the Human Essence, and Spirit, which is the Creator's Spirit Which We Are.." UNQUOTE

What you are speaking of is the same thing I speak of when I use the tern consciousness.

In my opinion you are trying to separate the mammal from its sacred fire, and yet continuing to call that separated essence a mammal.
In the confusion of the semantics I cannot actually argue what you are saying because you are basically saying the same thing that I am, except that because of your application of the word 'human', it sounds as though it contradicts what I have said.

Might I ask you to consider that the 'human' form that we know on this planet, that those trying to understand your application of that word would think of as the human body of flesh, would not be the same form found on billions of other planets throughout creation. Those trying to make sense of what you are saying would want to ask how you could think that the human is the god child of the entire universe when there are many other forms that would not be humanoid abounding throughout.

As a matter of fact there are many who proclaim that the vast majority of flesh found in the universe would be reptilian. Of course I think that is highly speculative given the scope of the universe but the point is that the human would certainly not be considered a main player in the entire universe of beings and forms of intelligence.

However, this confusion only comes about because they would not understand your application of the word 'human' as being, not the human body of flesh, but the spirit within which you choose to also call human.

[Tenet Nosce]

Might I ask you to consider that the 'human' form that we know on this planet, that those trying to understand your application of that word would think of as the human body of flesh, would not be the same form found on billions of other planets throughout creation.

An insightful point- what constitutes a human has more to do with a state of consciousness than a particular physical form.

[Shin'Ar]

Might I ask you to consider that the 'human' form that we know on this planet, that those trying to understand your application of that word would think of as the human body of flesh, would not be the same form found on billions of other planets throughout creation.

An insightful point- what constitutes a human has more to do with a state of consciousness than a particular physical form.

yes and I know that Azrael understands this. It is his using the word human to define the consciousness within that becomes confusing. But I do think that it goes to show his reverence for the human process in the grand Design, that he chooses to define both consciousness and human form as one and the same.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Shin'Ar]

Aha You are misunderstanding me. I absolutely see where you're coming from, that my application of the word human may be misleading, however, I use it because of the context that we are human and animal. (In my mind, our mammalian "name" is homo sapien)

I am not using the word human to define the consciousness within, but rather I am expressing that the human design (which, by the way, applies to all HUMANoid forms, whether they are of feline, canine, or primate or some other base impulse) is a gateway tool for, one, accessing all of the vast realms of infinity, and two, for understanding the workings of the universe, for the human form, like all forms, is a microcosm of the unified macrocosm.

So rather, I use human as referring to a characteristic, or concept of "humanness", which we commonly identify with "personification". I came here to discover what it means to be human and now I see that to be human is to experience the unfoldment of God, to be the process. The human is not a body, the human is a creative spirit, nay, the creative mind of the Creator itself.

I use this word very particularly as a context.

So would you say, in this context, that you could also use the form of a cat, dog, or ape to achieve the same results of experiencing the geometric experience of transforming between microcosm and macrocosm?

---

Perhaps it might clear up this confusion if I said that I could be in any form and say the same thing from the same perspective and I feel it would hold true. This is exactly my point, is that humans are as significant as their existence. Some people find the human form fascinating, and what is wrong with that? There is nothing evil about the human form in and of itself, once again the choice of "polarity" or indeed morality comes from the choice of the use of the form.

That being said, at no point am I expressing that there are not multitudes of other forms out there, nor that I even intend to always stick to the human form, but rather I would try to draw attention away from attitudes that attempt to create illusory distinctions of good and evil.

That being said, I'm almost unsure how I'm even actually defining good and evil. There are so many things and situations that are apparently circumstantial, although I'm also lead to believe that we choose everything we experience. This reminds me of a story I read recently whereby a buddhist monk was on a ship, and he found out there was a man who intended to kill everyone and commandeer the ship, and the monk knew the man had this capability. Of course, being a buddhist, the idea of killing a man was abhorrent, but what could he do? He chose to kill the man and saved hundreds of lives.

Naturally, he felt very guilty and upon landing he immediately went to the buddha to confess and ask for advice. He express how deeply he felt his guilt, but the buddha gently stopped him and said, "Do not regret your actions, for what you did was out of love and a desire to protect."

I've realized that there is hard force and there is soft force, all is change, all involves force, you have only the choice of how you are going to direct that force.

The way I approach discussing with anyone is to try to bring things in in steps so it is graspable by the other individual. You do not need to use too much or too little force in any situation, and this is why wisdom is so important, because Love is Force.

What is human? FEELING, living, being, breathing, smelling, tasting, sensing, thinking, experiencing, growing, evolving, expanding and ever more in its rich experiences.

okay, that is what I get for not reading all of the posts before I respond to one. I see that you had already answered my question in this one.

It is interesting to see you use polarity and morality as synonyms. when describing choice, and then in the next sentence state that you are " I would try to draw attention away from attitudes that attempt to create illusory distinctions of good and evil."

here you have pointed out that the use of the vehicle is what designates its polarity and/or morality, and you want to draw our attention away from those who would also point out the same.

Why do you feel the need to draw attention away from such profession?

And then you go on to make note of the fact that you are not really certain about your definitions of evil and good and use the Buddhist monk story to define the differences that do exist and the choices around them.

I have to first state that I am not trying to convert anyone here, or to persuade anyone to believe as I do about anything in particular. this is a two way conversation on matters that include the speculations of two consciousnesses. I am not judging anyone's abilities to comprehend or express their understandings. I seek only to discuss what they have to say on matters in the hopes of using what they say to enhance my own understanding by discerning the credibility or applicability of their thought process.

Azrael, is it possible that are not actually settled on this in your mind and that you are only trying to stabilize what you would like to believe and find it difficult to change your thinking even when you admit to not being certain on a matter?

You don't have to answer that. I just ask it so that you may consider it. You have already stated that, "I'm almost unsure how I'm even actually defining good and evil."

In my opinion you are fighting a battle between the wisdom and memory of your consciousness, and the desires that your 'human/cat/dog/ape experience would like to enjoy. I have heard you quite adequately explain the dilemma around good and evil many times before without any confusion whatsoever. I have also heard you express full understanding of the spirit/flesh complex. I am also aware that there are some in this community who come here offering the thoughts of consciousness which speaks through them in one post and then in another speak via their own and reveal a very different character.

I can see in your case both the Eternal and the Azrael that I first came to know. And I hear here Azrael and the shadow.

Would you consider this in as much as you are aware that such things are possible and that it could be that you are experiencing this?

[godwide_void]

I would like to very briefly interject and point out that the human form is but one of many vehicles animated by consciousness, however the extreme nature of the potential connection between the microcosm of man and the macrocosm moreso than any other microcosmic element is due to the particular capabilities we have been endowed with, namely that of abstract thought. Recall that thoughts become manifest and that the vibrational frequency of what is willed shall come to be attracted to the willer. Thus why, with out ability of having access to an essentially infinite range of thoughts and concepts we may formulate, do we give rise to a reality as infinitely various. The microcosmic form of man has a greater semblance of manifestation of macrocosmic representation and a more enhanced degree of connectivity than, say, a kitty, because we hold the ability necessary to conjure up the concept of microcosm and macrocosm and construct an in-depth mythos concerning the nature of reality, and indeed we are even afforded the opportunity to forge the concepts of "reality", "vibations", "experience", "spirit", "flesh", "transcendence", "polarity", "morality", "wisdom", "understanding", "expression", what have you. We may develop mannerisms. Personalities are formed. Beliefs arise. Theories are made. Speculations are held. Opinions come to be. Our entire realities are shaped by the thoughts we hold. Even going beyond the mental paradigms which distinguish the human from other forms of Earth-bound life, are the uniqueness and extreme flexibility of the physical vehicle. We are also not solely instinctual, though we are intuitive, but for the most part it is our technically unlimited scope of external navigation and internal experience that certifies our much higher and established connection and ability to generate the essence of the divine through the human form.

As above, so below. As we oftentimes create realities fraught with supposed paradoxes, contradictions, and misunderstandings amongst one another, these are indicative of the vast array of possibility of what may constitute "truth". We oftentimes interchange subjectivity with objective truth, and indeed our individual perspectives embed and solidify what is considered the foundational underlying truth for each of us. And oftentimes, our personal truths will clash with the personal truths of others, yet does this cause negation of either truth if those truths were founded upon what one has come to know as truth?

I will now bow out of the conversation for the time being as I am more fascinated in following the correspondence between the both of you, Shin'Ar and Azrael, as I always am when you both discourse, for many points to muse upon and extract wisdom and understanding from are begotten from your dialogues.

[Shin'Ar]

I would like to very briefly interject and point out that the human form is but one of many vehicles animated by consciousness, however the extreme nature of the potential connection between the microcosm of man and the macrocosm moreso than any other microcosmic element is due to the particular capabilities we have been endowed with, namely that of abstract thought. Recall that thoughts become manifest and that the vibrational frequency of what is willed shall come to be attracted to the willer. Thus why, with out ability of having access to an essentially infinite range of thoughts and concepts we may formulate, do we give rise to a reality as infinitely various. The microcosmic form of man has a greater semblance of manifestation of macrocosmic representation and a more enhanced degree of connectivity than, say, a kitty, because we hold the ability necessary to conjure up the concept of microcosm and macrocosm and construct an in-depth mythos concerning the nature of reality, and indeed we are even afforded the opportunity to forge the concepts of "reality", "vibations", "experience", "spirit", "flesh", "transcendence", "polarity", "morality", "wisdom", "understanding", "expression", what have you. We may develop mannerisms. Personalities are formed. Beliefs arise. Theories are made. Speculations are held. Opinions come to be. Our entire realities are shaped by the thoughts we hold. Even going beyond the mental paradigms which distinguish the human from other forms of Earth-bound life, are the uniqueness and extreme flexibility of the physical vehicle. We are also not solely instinctual, though we are intuitive, but for the most part it is our technically unlimited scope of external navigation and internal experience that certifies our much higher and established connection and ability to generate the essence of the divine through the human form.

As above, so below. As we oftentimes create realities fraught with supposed paradoxes, contradictions, and misunderstandings amongst one another, these are indicative of the vast array of possibility of what may constitute "truth". We oftentimes interchange subjectivity with objective truth, and indeed our individual perspectives embed and solidify what is considered the foundational underlying truth for each of us. And oftentimes, our personal truths will clash with the personal truths of others, yet does this cause negation of either truth if those truths were founded upon what one has come to know as truth?

I will now bow out of the conversation for the time being as I am more fascinated in following the correspondence between the both of you, Shin'Ar and Azrael, as I always am when you both discourse, for many points to muse upon and extract wisdom and understanding from are begotten from your dialogues.

There is something within your perception of the All that I need to wrap my head around that I have not yet been able to accomplish. But I know that you have some key to opening that door. I would like to dissect you like a biological experiment but of course it is not in the biology or the physics that the answer will be found. Wink/Hint

Both of you cause me to constantly rethink this aspect of the All and my place in it, and both trigger aspects of my consciousness that I might not have otherwise been able to access.

On the one hand I have Az who knows that vibration is the key to form and sees all in such a way that even the human form rests in stillness in such awareness.

On the other hand i have GW who views the All from a perspective that human experience cannot comprehend which awakens the realization that mere human form is far from the potential of higher being.

Somewhere between those two is a place of rest.

In my opinion as I have stated many times before, extremity is not the friend of awareness and being. balance will not be had at either end, it must be sought after constantly as the infinite change of evolving consciousness. A process which requires the continuous walking back and forth, or straddling of, that ancient see saw to find the place where it neither tilts to fat to one side or the other. Perfect balance will never be had as long as motion is in progress, and motion and change is, as AZ has been saying, the state of existence.

Polarity is necessary for this reason. Direction is necessary for this reason. Choice is necessary for this reason. Because the universe is in constant change and motion, balance is neverending.

The extremes are loss of connection to the 'other'. The place of rest is somewhere between the two. Ask Ahktu. She resides there now.

[godwide_void]

I would like to very briefly interject and point out that the human form is but one of many vehicles animated by consciousness, however the extreme nature of the potential connection between the microcosm of man and the macrocosm moreso than any other microcosmic element is due to the particular capabilities we have been endowed with, namely that of abstract thought. Recall that thoughts become manifest and that the vibrational frequency of what is willed shall come to be attracted to the willer. Thus why, with out ability of having access to an essentially infinite range of thoughts and concepts we may formulate, do we give rise to a reality as infinitely various. The microcosmic form of man has a greater semblance of manifestation of macrocosmic representation and a more enhanced degree of connectivity than, say, a kitty, because we hold the ability necessary to conjure up the concept of microcosm and macrocosm and construct an in-depth mythos concerning the nature of reality, and indeed we are even afforded the opportunity to forge the concepts of "reality", "vibations", "experience", "spirit", "flesUh", "transcendence", "polarity", "morality", "wisdom", "understanding", "expression", what have you. We may develop mannerisms. Personalities are formed. Beliefs arise. Theories are made. Speculations are held. Opinions come to be. Our entire realities are shaped by the thoughts we hold. Even going beyond the mental paradigms which distinguish the human from other forms of Earth-bound life, are the uniqueness and extreme flexibility of the physical vehicle. We are also not solely instinctual, though we are intuitive, but for the most part it is our technically unlimited scope of external navigation and internal experience that certifies our much higher and established connection and ability to generate the essence of the divine through the human form.

As above, so below. As we oftentimes create realities fraught with supposed paradoxes, contradictions, and misunderstandings amongst one another, these are indicative of the vast array of possibility of what may constitute "truth". We oftentimes interchange subjectivity with objective truth, and indeed our individual perspectives embed and solidify what is considered the foundational underlying truth for each of us. And oftentimes, our personal truths will clash with the personal truths of others, yet does this cause negation of either truth if those truths were founded upon what one has come to know as truth?

I will now bow out of the conversation for the time being as I am more fascinated in following the correspondence between the both of you, Shin'Ar and Azrael, as I always am when you both discourse, for many points to muse upon and extract wisdom and understanding from are begotten from your dialogues.

There is something within your perception of the All that I need to wrap my head around that I have not yet been able to accomplish. But I know that you have some key to opening that door. I would like to dissect you like a biological experiment but of course it is not in the biology or the physics that the answer will be found. Wink/Hint

---

On the other hand i have GW who views the All from a perspective that human experience cannot comprehend which awakens the realization that mere human form is far from the potential of higher being.

The transfigured perception of Creation I have experienced is fairly simple in a way, when one envisions the entirety of Creation as the various sentient organs and cells of One infinitely expanding being, each organ and cell being a lower derivative of the entirety in its own way in that it is at its deepest core beyond the illusion of separation and identity every being and experiences the same exact process that the higher all-encompassing being does: creates new experiences, contains new experiences, sustains these experiences, is what the experiences and contents all coalesce into. I have mentioned to you before that I have observed my true form for a substantial period of awareness and very intricately recall each and every single detail and have correlated these observations with what I have come to consciously know and understandings drawn from this Source.

One being. Its face/body is comprised of all galaxies. The background is the blackest void you can imagine, and all it does is expand outwards, with no sense of cessation, at a chaotically frenzied yet tranquil pace with a simultaneous sense of absolute stillness of a calmed yet furious tempest; I did not merely observe my form but re-experience exactly what it felt like to exist as that vibrational spectrum of entirely sentient being. I am working on a digital rendition from memory to share if my description still does not provide an adequate visualization.

Though the illusion has descended and I am back in this density of being I retain the memory of what exists directly behind all which I perceive in my external awareness thus it is easy for me to "overlay" this experience in a variety of manners over my continuum of consciousness. For instance, when I speak to another life form I am able to "see" with my mind's eye the One who speaks the words spoken by this person, dwelling within them and behind them and as them and in all that surrounds Us. I am able to recall with absolution that all moments are being sustained upon and within and as the direct process of Its nature of Being, that all sounds and visions are what It has given rise to yet at the same time with each new experience that occurs each and every moment It is discovering more of Itself and Observing Itself unfold infinitely with each new synthesizes of Its systematization of experience of Itself.

This is how I am able to retain peace and acquiescence as the absolution and ineffability of this experience serves as the Truth that I both am this form and at the same time am only One of Many forms that all act as ambassador and distinctly unique replicant of my true self which exists far beyond what and where I currently am yet omnipresent, for It is what consciously observes through this one.

I experience equanimity in that I welcome all experience yet neither hold expectation for new experience and seek to move in harmony with the flux of experience, and cherish each new experience, and seek to understand and accept and integrate all new experience. I attempt to understand all points of view knowing that they are perspectives of One viewer.

---

Both of you cause me to constantly rethink this aspect of the All and my place in it, and both trigger aspects of my consciousness that I might not have otherwise been able to access.

On the one hand I have Az who knows that vibration is the key to form and sees all in such a way that even the human form rests in stillness in such awareness.

Somewhere between those two is a place of rest.

In my opinion as I have stated many times before, extremity is not the friend of awareness and being. balance will not be had at either end, it must be sought after constantly as the infinite change of evolving consciousness. A process which requires the continuous walking back and forth, or straddling of, that ancient see saw to find the place where it neither tilts to fat to one side or the other. Perfect balance will never be had as long as motion is in progress, and motion and change is, as AZ has been saying, the state of existence.

Polarity is necessary for this reason. Direction is necessary for this reason. Choice is necessary for this reason. Because the universe is in constant change and motion, balance is neverending.

The extremes are loss of connection to the 'other'. The place of rest is somewhere between the two. Ask Ahktu. She resides there now.

It is not surprising to me that both of them have been able to express their 'channeled' understanding inasmuch as their particular individualtions of consciousness are as a part of the respective entity which expresses Itself through either of them, just as that which you 'channel' Shin'Ar and feel to be a guiding field separate from your particular identity of consciousness is very intricately and representitavely connected to your true individuated higher identity, which is yet still as a part of only One identity.

I would like to say also that Azrael is very keen in his emphasized pursuits of vibration as key to form from the technical standpoints and would like to hear also what interesting synthesis of being and perspective Ahktu has forged.

[Shin'Ar]

I would like to say also that Azrael is very keen in his emphasized pursuits of vibration as key to form from the technical standpoints and would like to hear also what interesting synthesis of being and perspective Ahktu has forged.

Well thanks for the next kick in the butt. Do you think he will get the hint this time?

As for Lynn, I would guess that she would not want to disturb her place right now with such things. I could be wrong we all know how she likes to go on,lol.

But if she's reading this, I would stay let if ride for a lil bit hun. Enjoy the balance.

[godwide_void]

I have encountered and would like to correct a distortion-causing typo here, where I'd meant to say "our" instead:

Thus why, with *out* our ability of having access to an essentially infinite range of thoughts and concepts we may formulate, do we give rise to a reality as infinitely various.

---

I would like to say also that Azrael is very keen in his emphasized pursuits of vibration as key to form from the technical standpoints and would like to hear also what interesting synthesis of being and perspective Ahktu has forged.

Well thanks for the next kick in the butt. Do you think he will get the hint this time?

As for Lynn, I would guess that she would not want to disturb her place right now with such things. I could be wrong we all know how she likes to go on,lol.

But if she's reading this, I would stay let if ride for a lil bit hun. Enjoy the balance.

So the plot thickens... I will keep my intuitively revealed suspicions to myself for now as to the true nature and identity of those two and certain elements on how it is as such, though being subject to the Law of Confusion, it being this early on in this unfolding narrative of this story's chapter and with only fledgling details and clues budding, I may only say that my intrigued musings on the metaidentities of all parties involved remain as preemptive musings.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Unbound]

We seek within.

[Brittany]

Wow, people are talking about me. O__O I just hit my head and am kind of dizzy, so there's no way I can read and understand all this stuff right now. At least you're saying nice things.

[Oceania]

make sure you stay coherent!

[Lemurian]

I don't know how authentic the Rider-Waite tarot deck is to the original images, however "The Devil" card seems to me most representative of addiction to the flesh. I observe that the chains about their necks are large enough to be able to be cast off at any time, therefore I conclude that the man and woman remain there voluntarily.

Great tarot deck (great arcanum) is also from Oswald Wirth (1860 – 1943), "Swiss occultist, artist and author". Elizabeth Haich (1897-1994; most famous for her book Initiation) uses this deck in Wisdom of the Tarot (1983). Pretty good description of the initiation path, although a bit different than Ra's. For example, she uses system body, mind, spirit, instead of mind, body, spirit. But nonetheless very good read.

Here's a sample of that deck:
http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/imag...hcards.gif

[AnthroHeart]

Thank you Tenet about the comment on addiction to the flesh. Something I have been experiencing, but it's all been fantasy to me. I never associated it with the devil card before. I've been somewhat of a chronic masturbator to my own thoughts because the things I lust about don't really exist in the world.