How do you feel about Psychic Surgery & Uri Geller?

[Theaone]

Hi, I just want to hear what people think and feel on the topic of psychic surgery and Uri Geller.

I finished reading the first book and on the verge of re-reading it. I feel quite good about the information but there are 2 things I am not too sure of relating to the Law of One.

1) Psychic surgery: All evidence I found seems fraudulent and I do not believe this is real. I have a bad feeling about this.

2) Uri Geller: All evidence I found points to him being a magician and not a psychic. I have a really bad feeling when watching him perform. I do not believe he is a real psychic.

As much as I resonate with the Law of One, their support for these 2 subjects are bothersome to me.

How do you guys feel about this?

Thanks

[Ocean]

is it the stuff where they fake pulling out tumors?

[Theaone]

is it the stuff where they fake pulling out tumors?

Psychic surgery is where the "doctor" performs an operation using his or her hands (sometimes tools as claimed by Rueckert). The doctor makes an incision with bare hands and pulls stuff out from the body. The blood is wiped off immediately and there are no signs of the incision or scarring.

I believe that this is nothing more than an act from my own view. At least, this is the conclusion I am able to make from the evidence that I am able to find.

[Ocean]

a soul retriever said it's symbolic to the patient, or placebo. but that in effect it is removing of negative thought patterns or something. i don't remember his name.

[Namaste]

I believe anything is possible. Anything :¬)

For what it's worth to you, Carla experienced psychic healing personally. Read the introduction in Book 1, from page 43. A snippet...

In the most interesting case in which I took part, the healer was told that I had arthritis. He scanned my body with the help of his assistant. Then he opened the abdominal cavity and with a very liquid sounding action pulled gently, but firmly, at what seemed to be organs rather than joints. It was not unpleasant but, to me, the patient, it was puzzling, as I had no arthritis in my organs. He then removed what seemed to be three rather small, long pieces of bloody material at the center of which was a small piece of hard material.

This done, he removed his left hand. The “incision” vanished without a scar or trace of any kind. The two men, in this case, mopped up what had become a fairly considerable amount of blood, rinsed their hands, and then took baby oil and worked it over the abdominal skin, massaging in silence.

When I asked what the healer was doing working in the abdominal area the interpreter relayed my request, and relayed back the information that the scanning had produced the knowledge of three cysts upon my right ovary, and the misplacement or dropping of both ovaries which had occurred through years of very active life. The pulling had been to reposition the ovaries so that I would not be in discomfort during menstruation. The removal of the cysts had had the same purpose.

Although my gynecologist had diagnosed these three small cysts when I was a very young woman, I had never spoken of them to Don Elkins and, indeed, to no one, since such conversation is not fascinating. One other person knew of these cysts, my mother, but she was 12,000 miles away.

[Ocean]

i do believe the surgery was real, spiritually.

[Bring4th_Austin]

To supplement Namaste's reference, I offer this interaction where Don asks Ra about psychic surgery. Ra references both of Carla's psychic surgeries.

66.13 Questioner: I have observed many activities known as psychic surgery in the area of the Philippine Islands. It was my assumption that these healers are providing what I would call a training aid or a way of creating a reconfiguration of the mind of the patient to be healed as the relatively naive patient observes the action of the healer in seeing the materialized blood, etc. and reconfigures the roots of mind to believe, you might say, the healing is done and, therefore, heals himself. Is this analysis that I have made correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. We may speak slightly further on the type of opportunity.

There are times when the malcondition to be altered is without emotional, mental, or spiritual interest to the entity and is merely that which has, perhaps by chance genetic arrangement, occurred. In these cases that which is apparently dematerialized will remain dematerialized and may be observed as so by any observer. The malcondition which has an emotional, mental, or spiritual charge is likely not to remain dematerialized in the sense of the showing of the objective referent to an observer. However, if the opportunity has been taken by the seeker the apparent malcondition of the physical complex will be at variance with the actual health, as you call this distortion, of the seeker and the lack of experiencing the distortions which the objective referent would suggest still held sway.

For instance, in this instrument the removal of three small cysts was the removal of material having no interest to the entity. Thus these growths remained dematerialized after the so-called psychic surgery experience. In other psychic surgery the kidneys of this instrument were carefully offered a new configuration of being-ness which the entity embraced. However, this particular portion of the mind/body/spirit complex carried a great deal of emotional, mental, and spiritual charge due to this distorted functioning being the cause of great illness in a certain configuration of events which culminated in this entity’s conscious decision to be of service. Therefore, any objective scanning of this entity’s renal complex would indicate the rather extreme dysfunctional aspect which it showed previous to the psychic surgery experience, as you call it.

The key is not in the continuation of the dematerialization of distortion to the eye of the beholder but rather lies in the choosing of the newly materialized configuration which exists in time/space

How I interpret this: any real psychic healer is adept, and able to access time/space (through whatever method). Entering into this state, the actions manifest in space/time, sometimes appearing paranormal. The healer works upon the illness through time/space, offers a new time/space configuration to the entity being healed, and this time/space configuration is manifested through space time. As with all healing, the patient must be open and willing to be healed, not just physically but spiritually and mentally.


This is how I view psychic surgery and it seems to satisfy my skeptical mind, at least within the limits of my knowledge of adept-hood, time/space, and the nature of reality in general.

[3DMonkey]

I don't have an opinion.

The thread makes me think of "John of God". Have you these videos? Very very interesting.

I also believe anything is possible. Sadly, I don't believe I'll be possibly performing anything like this, ever.

[Theaone]

Thank you everyone for the replies. They are very informative and interesting as I did not expect those responses. I do apologize if I seem a bit too skeptical. I am always very open minded and researched at the fringe but these 2 things just nagged me a bit and I felt like expressing it. Its not that I don't believe in these 2 things fully but more like they are harder to believe even at my current state of awareness.

BTW, if anyone has not seen the interview of Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert, I would suggest seeing it. It is on youtube.

On the video Carla claims to have had a psychic surgery with a kidney transplant. This would imply that she had 2 psychic surgeries. One with her ovaries and another with kidneys. BUT in both cases it was said to heal her arthritis! How can this be?

Can someone also give thoughts on Uri Geller? In the video Don strongly supported him. I am not sure and don't remember if this was mentioned in the book. Uri Geller to me is definitely not a psychic based on my interpretation of all the evidence available on youtube.

I also believe that anything is possible but I also believe there are people out there that would take advantage of that. So far from my interpretation of the responses, it seems like psychic surgery is more of a placebo effect. Which isn't a bad explanation. In terms of being "adept" Uri Geller seems no where near spiritually intelligent. No need for me to explain this as it is too obvious if one is to watch his videos (unless someone wants me to explain). He is a classic example of a psychic fraud. BUT Don Elkins supports him and I find this disturbing.

Actually these 2 anomalies are usually enough for me to debunk a subject and move on to further research. But everything else holds strong enough that I feel the Law of One is too much to just throw away... if anyone else can help further the input on these 2 anomalies I would greatly appreciate it.

[Bring4th_Austin]

On the video Carla claims to have had a psychic surgery with a kidney transplant. This would imply that she had 2 psychic surgeries. One with her ovaries and another with kidneys. BUT in both cases it was said to heal her arthritis! How can this be?

From the intro to Book 1 of the Ra material:

In the most interesting case in which I took part, the healer was told that I
had arthritis. He scanned my body with the help of his assistant. Then he
opened the abdominal cavity and with a very liquid sounding action pulled
gently, but firmly, at what seemed to be organs rather than joints. It was not
unpleasant but, to me, the patient, it was puzzling, as I had no arthritis in
my organs. He then removed what seemed to be three rather small, long
pieces of bloody material at the center of which was a small piece of hard
material. This done, he removed his left hand. The “incision” vanished
without a scar or trace of any kind. The two men, in this case, mopped up
what had become a fairly considerable amount of blood, rinsed their hands,
and then took baby oil and worked it over the abdominal skin, massaging in
silence.
When I asked what the healer was doing working in the abdominal area the
interpreter relayed my request, and relayed back the information that the
scanning had produced the knowledge of three cysts upon my right ovary,
and the misplacement or dropping of both ovaries which had occurred
through years of very active life. The pulling had been to reposition the
ovaries so that I would not be in discomfort during menstruation. The
removal of the cysts had had the same purpose.
Although my gynecologist had diagnosed these three small cysts when I was
a very young woman, I had never spoken of them to Don Elkins and,
indeed, to no one, since such conversation is not fascinating. One other
person knew of these cysts, my mother, but she was 12,000 miles away.
Upon returning to the United States I had my gynecologist examine the
area and he confirmed that the three cysts were no longer palpable. They
have remained gone, and the comfort level of my menstrual cycle is
correspondingly far better.

You can find the entire book here: http://www.llresearch.org/library/the_la...book_1.pdf
The intro has detail of their experience with psychic surgery.

I also believe that anything is possible but I also believe there are people out there that would take advantage of that. So far from my interpretation of the responses, it seems like psychic surgery is more of a placebo effect. Which isn't a bad explanation. In terms of being "adept" Uri Geller seems no where near spiritually intelligent. No need for me to explain this as it is too obvious if one is to watch some of his videos (unless someone wants me to explain). He is a classic example of a psychic fraud. BUT Don Elkins supports him and I find this disturbing.

Actually these 2 anomalies are usually enough for me to debunk a subject and move on to further research but everything else is so strong that I feel the Law of One really hard to just throw away... if anyone else can help further the input on these 2 anomalies I would greatly appreciate it.

I'd say it is more of an advanced placebo effect. The "placebo effect" is obviously in action, but the psychic surgeon offers a more powerful catalyst that actually has configuration in time/space, where-as a normal placebo effect has no external catalyst literally working in time/space.


I cannot speak on Uri Geller, but I can say that just because Don has faith in him and you do not doesn't mean the rest of Don's work is worthless. Take what resonates with you, leave the rest. It's what Ra wants, it's what Carla wants, and it's what Don wants as well, wherever he is now.

[kycahi]

I was in the room, operating a video camera, when Pachita did Carla's "kidney transplant" That said, the conditions made possible any manner of foolery. Nevertheless, she felt extreme pain during the procedure and afterward had symptomatic relieve that lasted for years.

Prior to the surgery, the group gathered at Pachita's house to meet her and discuss how the process would work. Don said, "I hope that Pachita will work on Carla to give her relief from arthritis." Pachita asked Carla to stand in front of her and said (translated), "The problem is with her kidneys, and I will be able to fix them," or something like that. Maybe she actually said "and I will do a transplant."

After that first visit, Carla said that she knew her kidneys were a little messed up, but didn't connect them with the arthritis. At this point, everybody was acting and feeling very open and non-judgmental. Recall that Don said investigation into these things requires complete gullibility until after the fact and only then to analyze the data.

Dr. Puharich had seen Pachita work before, but none of the rest of us had. He provided the video equipment that I operated. The camera was monochromatic and extremely light sensitive because Andrija knew that she worked in very low light. Before knowing about her, he had spent considerable effort studying Arigo, a healer in Brazil. There's a book about that called, Arigo, Surgeon of the Rusty Knife by John G. Fuller. It's a very good read.

Puharich himself wrote a book called Uri, another good read. Don and Carla contacted him after reading it, and they became friends. Don also spent some time with Uri. He recounted the time that he, Don, was piloting a small plane and the instrument called the artificial horizon failed. One pilot would tell another, "that's when the horizon went out." This isn't a serious problem for most pilots most of the time, but it is very useful. He was surprised when the instrument began working again because it's expensive and very mechanical with gyroscopes and, when it fails, it stays failed. Don mentioned the incident and Uri excitedly jumped up and looked for a piece of paper. On it he had written, "Horizon is out." He didn't know what that meant, but he felt the same sensation that he gets when he psychically fixes something, so he wrote it down.

Edited to add hyperlink to Arigo title.

[maxer]

Hi, I just want to hear what people think and feel on the topic of psychic surgery and Uri Geller.

I finished reading the first book and on the verge of re-reading it. I feel quite good about the information but there are 2 things I am not too sure of relating to the Law of One.

1) Psychic surgery: All evidence I found seems fraudulent and I do not believe this is real. I have a bad feeling about this.

2) Uri Geller: All evidence I found points to him being a magician and not a psychic. I have a really bad feeling when watching him perform. I do not believe he is a real psychic.

As much as I resonate with the Law of One, their support for these 2 subjects are bothersome to me.

How do you guys feel about this?

Thanks

here is some fun for you

for uri geller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTn0t_7pGZo

and for psychic surgery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMLl0lVZM...re=related

[lightning]

Thank you everyone for the replies. They are very informative and interesting as I did not expect those responses. I do apologize if I seem a bit too skeptical. I am always very open minded and researched at the fringe but these 2 things just nagged me a bit and I felt like expressing it. Its not that I don't believe in these 2 things fully but more like they are harder to believe even at my current state of awareness.

By the way, if anyone has not seen the interview of Don Elkins and Carla Rueckert, I would suggest seeing it. It is on youtube.

On the video Carla claims to have had a psychic surgery with a kidney transplant. This would imply that she had 2 psychic surgeries. One with her ovaries and another with kidneys. BUT in both cases it was said to heal her arthritis! How can this be?

Can someone also give thoughts on Uri Geller? In the video Don strongly supported him. I am not sure and don't remember if this was mentioned in the book. Uri Geller to me is definitely not a psychic based on my interpretation of all the evidence available on youtube.

I also believe that anything is possible but I also believe there are people out there that would take advantage of that. So far from my interpretation of the responses, it seems like psychic surgery is more of a placebo effect. Which isn't a bad explanation. In terms of being "adept" Uri Geller seems no where near spiritually intelligent. No need for me to explain this as it is too obvious if one is to watch his videos (unless someone wants me to explain). He is a classic example of a psychic fraud. BUT Don Elkins supports him and I find this disturbing.

Actually these 2 anomalies are usually enough for me to debunk a subject and move on to further research. But everything else holds strong enough that I feel the Law of One is too much to just throw away... if anyone else can help further the input on these 2 anomalies I would greatly appreciate it.

Just as with anything else, including channeling, caveat emptor (buyer beware) applies. There are frauds everywhere. In my opinion, an authentic psychic surgeon works on the etheric body which might to some degree appear to be the physical body to those present.

[Namaste]

I was in the room, operating a video camera, when Pachita did Carla's "kidney transplant" That said, the conditions made possible any manner of foolery. Nevertheless, she felt extreme pain during the procedure and afterward had symptomatic relieve that lasted for years.

Prior to the surgery, the group gathered at Pachita's house to meet her and discuss how the process would work. Don said, "I hope that Pachita will work on Carla to give her relief from arthritis." Pachita asked Carla to stand in front of her and said (translated), "The problem is with her kidneys, and I will be able to fix them," or something like that. Maybe she actually said "and I will do a transplant."

After that first visit, Carla said that she knew her kidneys were a little messed up, but didn't connect them with the arthritis. At this point, everybody was acting and feeling very open and non-judgmental. Recall that Don said investigation into these things requires complete gullibility until after the fact and only then to analyze the data.

Dr. Puharich had seen Pachita work before, but none of the rest of us had. He provided the video equipment that I operated. The camera was monochromatic and extremely light sensitive because Andrija knew that she worked in very low light. Before knowing about her, he had spent considerable effort studying Arigo, a healer in Brazil. There's a book about that called, Arigo, Surgeon of the Rusty Knife by John G. Fuller. It's a very good read.

Puharich himself wrote a book called Uri, another good read. Don and Carla contacted him after reading it, and they became friends. Don also spent some time with Uri. He recounted the time that he, Don, was piloting a small plane and the instrument called the artificial horizon failed. One pilot would tell another, "that's when the horizon went out." This isn't a serious problem for most pilots most of the time, but it is very useful. He was surprised when the instrument began working again because it's expensive and very mechanical with gyroscopes and, when it fails, it stays failed. Don mentioned the incident and Uri excitedly jumped up and looked for a piece of paper. On it he had written, "Horizon is out." He didn't know what that meant, but he felt the same sensation that he gets when he psychically fixes something, so he wrote it down.

Edited to add hyperlink to Arigo title.

Fantastic, thanks.

[kycahi]

here is some fun for you

for uri geller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTn0t_7pGZo

and for psychic surgery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMLl0lVZM...re=related

Welcome to these forums, maxer!

Don knew about James Randi and made a wisecrack about him one time when I was around. He didn't consider Randi as serious opposition, and felt that anybody who really dug for truth would learn it, despite that showman's efforts.

Don and Carla investigated psychic healers for their research into phenomena with her as a subject. They didn't care one way or the other what others may have thought or what James Randi did for a living.