my thoughts on the belief of karma being a punishment-type system

[schubert]

i was watching this video in the video thread and had this reaction (the story in the video im talking about starts at 1:23)

woah woah wHAT? im sorry but im a couple minutes into this video and the narrator just casually mentions in a disturbingly nonchalant voice that a guy in a story had to "suffer the agonies of hell" to work out the karma related to calming a storm and then a ship with people on board sunk because of the loss of wind. i really dont like this perspective of karma being a punishment-type system, i think it's very toxic, fear-based, and not how it works (unless you believe that's how it works in which you may create that experience for yourself, and of course to each their own).

the narrator even calls it a sin, saying he "had to bear the sin of killing so many innocent people" and calls it a "terrible sin." it's literally an honest mistake. that doesnt mean the person in the story didnt play a role in the ship sinking and it doesnt mean he can't take a level of responsibility and doing things to make up for it (especially learning the lesson and doing his best not to do something like that in the future), but if you want to "suffer the agonies of hell" for anything, that's you punishing yourself out of your own shame and guilt.

ive heard a couple people's takes on karma that come to mind. these most resonated with my intuition. this is just my remembrance and paraphrasing of what they said so take it with a grain of salt and look into them yourself if you would like. bashar said that karma is us balancing things out in the way that we prefer. dolores cannon said that karma is something we do to ourselves, there's no higher power that punishes us. i love this quote from michael leblanc: "You are The Divine Mind...God Consciousness...Intelligence, Source ...the very thing itself. Because that is who and what we are then what we believe and know to be true about ourself is what manifest in our world." full quote here instagram.com/p/CBddrX2BB2V/ "In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma." Ra from session 17.20.

what are your thoughts on this and karma in general?

[mayojojo]

well...religion has a way to twist metaphysical laws into oblivion.

[meadow-foreigner]

The way I perceive it, "karma" is a mere name of a complex series of events that often occur and often dictate entire lifetimes.

The almost irresistible tendency to react to a certain trigger is an indication of "karma".
The patterns of behavior, of attraction, of emotions, thoughts, and feelings are influenced by a certain "karma".

That won't cut to the chase though. Naming life "life" won't comprise all of its idiosyncrasies and perils. The same applies to "karma" – however easier it is to attribute things to such a term instead of trying to figure it out.

You act in certain patterns when faced with certain stimuli. We call that programming.

Such programming might be more or less effective/efficient based on your discomfort/restlessness/unease levels, as well as your tension levels – which works much like Joule effect in an electrical system, though it is from a biological perspective. The more dammed energy you have within you (termed "blockage" by the Ra Contact) the more energetical waste you incur: an uninteresting outcome in an already very much short lifetime.

Does that mean eternal damnation? Well, as long as you're stuck in the damnation loop, you'll re-enact the same scenarios, begetting pleasant/unpleasant effects as long as you please, until you surpass/overcome the craving for more sensations.

This oscillation between pleasure and unpleasant stimuli, along with its characteristic tension, also known as a burden, Sisyphus myth, etc., is termed Dukkha by Hinduists and Buddhists.

Call it the way you want, as long as you thoroughly understand the mechanisms and don't rely on outside explanations for an inner phenomenon.

A close-minded individual, be him/her attached to things or ideas, is a being fated to what you call "karma".

How about giving yourself more interesting outcomes in this already short lifetime?

[Spaced]

I see Karma as a balancing system. If a pendulum is pulled in one direction, when you let go it will swing to the opposite direction setting in motion a pattern that must play out until equilibrium is once again met. The fulcrum point from which the pendulum is suspended is the source of one's being.

My personal metaphysical belief is that, just as the planets have their orbits, we have our own paths. We, however, are subject to the veil of forgetting and are subject to free will. To me sin is the equivalent of straying from one's true path, the pendulum is drawn in one direction and then when when it's let go (at death for example) the pattern of Karma is set in motion and must be played out over subsequent lifestyles. One can work in life to slow or stop this momentum, or one can pull it in yet other directions, further increasing the eccentricity of it's orbit.

The hell experience is a form of purification. The things you do in life can weigh on you, stain your consciousness, and that must be worked off. In the terms of the Ra material, when asked about Hitler or Aleister Crowley Ra states that they are "undergoing healing in the inner planes." This is a more pleasant (and accurate, hell is a very loaded term) way of saying "they are undergoing the hell experience." It's not a punishment, it's centered on the desire to return to equilibrium as directed by the true nature of self which is the fulcrum of the pendulum.

My two cents.

[Minyatur]

People that see karma as a punishment mechanism are most likely only projecting their own relationship with it, which mirrors their own relationship with themselves. If for their mistakes they believe they deserve to be punished, then they will experience exactly that as a mean to teach them to forgive themselves. If on the other hand they believed that there are no mistakes, forgave themselves and accepted what was, then there would be no need for any catalyst. Karma is a teaching tool that serves to bring you into alignment with yourself. The tensions of your life that are manifested originate from within yourself.

An important quote on forgiveness in the material says that forgiveness of other-selves always includes the self. The things we disaprove of within others are always about misunderstood and unaccepted portions of ourselves for which we lack love. So when people wish punitive karma for others, it is much like they are simply calling out for their own catalysts, proclaiming out loud their own state of imbalance. Anger and other such emotions beget nothing more than that, only forgiveness can break the cycle into something other.

It is not for nothing that the STO path is the path of acceptance. Karma, like all things, can only be fully understood through the lenses of the Law of One. Would it make any sense if the One Infinite Creator could never be brought into alignment with Itself? To never come to accept and love Itself? To remain eternally stuck in a state of tension without salvation? No, it does not. There are no mistakes, only the perfect reflection of what we are. As such we should strive to love the world in all its ways, as it truly is nothing less and nothing more than exactly you.

[dexter101]

that video was pure crap. just like all the other major religions. in 4th density these "occult, bad" powers come naturally and are a part of evolution. angels have powers too and use them all the time just like the gods and the one infinite creator who gives them these powers. the danger lies in using these powers not to help others but to intentionally take their energy to further ones own powers. this is the trap that must be avoided if you seek the sto path.

you can use fire as a light in the darkness or you can use it to burn down a village.
i cant believe people are still so superficial and just stupid. this is worse than being the dog who keeps coming back to the master that beats him. this really fills me with anger. im gonna stop here before i write an entire book about it.

[kycahi]

A sin is a mistake. 3D folk make mistakes all the time and every day. Our job is to make mistakes because that gives us experiences, which lead to our personal growth.

The only other thing we do in 3D is to make the Choice. Read about that elsewhere.

[AnthroHeart]

that video was pure crap. just like all the other major religions. in 4th density these "occult, bad" powers come naturally and are a part of evolution. angels have powers too and use them all the time just like the gods and the one infinite creator who gives them these powers. the danger lies in using these powers not to help others but to intentionally take their energy to further ones own powers. this is the trap that must be avoided if you seek the sto path.

you can use fire as a light in the darkness or you can use it to burn down a village.
i cant believe people are still so superficial and just stupid. this is worse than being the dog who keeps coming back to the master that beats him. this really fills me with anger. im gonna stop here before i write an entire book about it.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't watch the video.

BUt I do have abilities such as being able to lower temp 10 degrees without AC. I just don't use that much because when you have abilities you have no real desire to use them much.

Right now I'm wanting to manifest an object that doesn't exist here. But I may have to wait until I fully heal.

[Dtris]

Karma is typically described as a wheel. As a wheel turns the same point returns again and again. Karma as a punishment and reward system is a very simple view of it. I think it is simply the lessons we need being repeated, and the consequences of previous actions being enacted to allow for learning. A small child should not know what it feels like to be hit and hurt, and may think it is fun to hit and hurt another child. Then that child gets hit back one day and realizes it hurts. So the child stops hitting and hurting other children. Sometimes we do not realize the consequences of our own actions, and have to assume the other role to realize their effects.

As far as casually mentioning hell I am not sure why that is surprising. There are many hells in eastern religion. Someone who adheres to one of these religions faithfully will believe in the hells as surely as we believe that the Law of One is real. There is some truth to the concept of hell. Many people feel the desire to be punished for their sins. As Hatonn says, you will find what you seek. So the hells will exist for someone who desires it. There are even modern NDE accounts of hell, although much less common than ones of a heaven like atmosphere.

The concept of shunning occult powers is also not unique. This version is slightly extreme but the general idea is also present in Qigong. The simple reason is that the powers should be a byproduct of the practice, and not the goal. If they become the goal then you are losing sight of the real goal post. Similarly in our discussions the major goal is to make the choice and graduate STO, but we can get caught up in discussing the chakras, densities, channeling, and other minutia of the Ra Material which can lead us away from the goal if we aren't careful.