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Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - reeay - 10-14-2012
Quote:18.5 Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here that I will read: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds the belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for the individual to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it is called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities to aid an individual to grow more into the Law of One?”
Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.
The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.
The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.
All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.
It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.
So with any desire, the first step is the curiosity to understand this desire and to infuse it with love/light, then certain experiences will come our way that will allow us to understand ourselves differently (i.e., not based on that desire)? At this point, the desire is unnecessary as a catalyst for a person's growth?
Ra suggests using imagination as a way to “work through” desires that are not in line with the Law of One. I’m assuming these are desires that are more dark, service-to-self, etc. Would there not be potential for the opposite effect, whereby imagining things that are not in lines with the Law of One may further confuse a person? It is my bias that this may potentially be dangerous/confusing, not according to what Ra said.
Ra talks then about having patience and experience to analyze with care, and with compassion. This almost seems like we need a level of maturity (perhaps not the right word) and centeredness to engage in such journey. What is your perspective?
I really do not like asking the “how do you do that” question because there are so many ways that fit each individual. The tools of astrology, tarot, tree of life, imagination etc., are available, yet not always accessible for one reason or another. Are there any other tools that Ra suggests or talks about or perhaps one that you find is helpful for those who are starting to think work on this issue?
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Bring4th_Austin - 10-14-2012
Ra's advice about experiencing desires is something I have not fully grasped either.
For instance, what would be the difference between temptation and desire? Ra claims that it is necessary for a proper channel to deny the former, yet says that it is the proper role of an entity to experience the latter. Where is the distinction between what we are tempted to experience and what we desire to experience?
I suppose it is worth note that Ra only addresses the concept of temptation in regards to channeling groups such as L/L, in where a 4th density negative entity attracted to the channel will "offer temptations" to the channel which, if given into, with detune the contact (such as aggrandizement of the channeling group or other types of selfish acts.) Perhaps these are the types of things that Ra suggests using our imaginations for rather than acting upon. But this doesn't seem to add up with the material for me, as denying temptation doesn't imply using the imagination to experience the desire.
I think one very important part of the passage you quoted is this line here: "We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires..."
This implies that Ra has had experience in this matter, and possibly at one point suggested to some entities to overcome desires. Perhaps at one point they believed that overcoming desires was an appropriate aspect of the STO path. However, they explain the results of such advice in a later passage:
Quote:52.7
Questioner: Am I correct, then, in assuming that discipline of the personality, knowledge of self, and control in strengthening of the will would be what any fifth-density entity would see as those things of importance?
Ra: I am Ra. In actuality these things are of importance in third through early seventh densities. The only correction in nuance that we would make is your use of the word, control. It is paramount that it be understood that it is not desirable or helpful to the growth of the understanding, may we say, of an entity by itself to control thought processes or impulses except where they may result in actions not consonant with the Law of One. Control may seem to be a short-cut to discipline, peace, and illumination. However, this very control potentiates and necessitates the further incarnative experience in order to balance this control or repression of that self which is perfect.
So in overcoming desires, we are simply "delaying the inevitable" with an issue that is begging to be addressed. Perhaps in some cases, it may seem better to "put off" the exploration of a certain desire for another lifetime, so we may concentrate on a particular task or objective before us. Understanding the consequences helps us make an (somewhat) informed decision.
Ra goes on to explain the alternative to "overcoming" desires:
Quote:Instead, we appreciate and recommend the use of your second verb in regard to the use of the will. Acceptance of self, forgiveness of self, and the direction of the will; this is the path towards the disciplined personality. Your faculty of will is that which is powerful within you as co-Creator. You cannot ascribe to this faculty too much importance. Thus it must be carefully used and directed in service to others for those upon the positively oriented path.
There is great danger in the use of the will as the personality becomes stronger, for it may be used even subconsciously in ways reducing the polarity of the entity.
This seems to suggest, to me, that to understand this issue of desires which seem to stray from our chosen path, we must understand the will and our ability to wield it as a co-Creator. I personally have never really been able to conceptualize "the will" and understand it in any sense that could help shed light on this issue.
However, Ra does touch some on the idea of strengthening the will:
Quote:42.12
Ra: I am Ra. There is but one technique for this growing or nurturing of will and faith, and that is the focusing of the attention. The attention span of those you call children is considered short. The spiritual attention span of most of your peoples is that of the child. Thus it is a matter of wishing to become able to collect one’s attention and hold it upon the desired programming.
This, when continued, strengthens the will. The entire activity can only occur when there exists faith that an outcome of this discipline is possible.
Quote:49.8
Questioner: Is it better, or shall I say, does it produce more useable results in meditation to leave the mind as blank as possible and let it run down, so to speak, or is it better to focus in meditation on some object or some thing for concentration?
Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this work time.
Each of the two types of meditation is useful for a particular reason. The passive meditation involving the clearing of the mind, the emptying of the mental jumble which is characteristic of mind complex activity among your peoples, is efficacious for those whose goal is to achieve an inner silence as a base from which to listen to the Creator. This is an useful and helpful tool and is by far the most generally useful type of meditation as opposed to contemplation or prayer.
The type of meditation which may be called visualization has as its goal not that which is contained in the meditation itself. Visualization is the tool of the adept. Those who learn to hold visual images in mind are developing an inner concentrative power that can transcend boredom and discomfort. When this ability has become crystallized in an adept the adept may then do polarizing in consciousness without external action which can affect the planetary consciousness. This is the reason for existence of the so-called White Magician. Only those wishing to pursue the conscious raising of planetary vibration will find visualization to be a particularly satisfying type of meditation.
Contemplation or the consideration in a meditative state of an inspiring image or text is extremely useful also among your peoples, and the faculty of will called praying is also of a potentially helpful nature. Whether it is indeed an helpful activity depends quite totally upon the intentions and objects of the one who prays.
May we ask if there are any brief queries at this time?
And I always try to hold this sentiment when contemplating these types of things:
Quote:52.11
Questioner: Is there then, from the point of view of an individual who wishes to follow the service-to-others path, anything of importance other than disciplines of personality, knowledge of self, and strengthening of will?
Ra: I am Ra. This is technique. This is not the heart. Let us examine the heart of evolution.
Let us remember that we are all one. This is the great learning/teaching. In this unity lies love. This is a great learn/teaching. In this unity lies light. This is the fundamental teaching of all planes of existence in materialization. Unity, love, light, and joy; this is the heart of evolution of the spirit.
The second-ranking lessons are learn/taught in meditation and in service. At some point the mind/body/spirit complex is so smoothly activated and balanced by these central thoughts or distortions that the techniques you have mentioned become quite significant. However, the universe, its mystery unbroken, is one. Always begin and end in the Creator, not in technique.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - caycegal - 10-14-2012
Very complex thread, not attempting to address all of it. Just the following:
It has been my experience that there is a difference between "desires of the heart" and desires of my monkey mind. I have devoted considerable focus to learning to distinguish between them.
I don't think desires of the heart can be ignored, because they come from a very deep and integral part of me. Desires of the monkey mind, however, are not even real - just attempts by my mind to get control of various situations.
Example: I might have a deep heart desire for love and companionship. My monkey mind might think it has to attract a particular person to satisfy this desire. The monkey mind might be and probably is fooling itself. The heart-felt desire for love and companionship, however, is real and worthwhile cultivating.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Siren - 10-14-2012
(10-14-2012, 06:36 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: For instance, what would be the difference between temptation and desire?
Temptation is a presented/offered catalyst (which may accepted or denied). Desire is related to the direction of will (i.e. what you desire to seek, pursue and experience).
Quote:I personally have never really been able to conceptualize "the will" and understand it in any sense that could help shed light on this issue.
The WILL is the quintessential principle behind all Creation/experience. It is the initial force/impulse of the One, the 1st distortion that lead to the focusing of Intelligent Infinity into the Original Thought, or "choice of attack" as Ra called it, that is the Logos, the active creative principle, or the 2nd distortion.
Wherever your thoughts, focus and attention are, your shall find your will there, for behind all thought, behind all focus and behind all action, there is WILL, there is desire. All action is preceded by will. Without that initial impulse there is nothing.
Will > Love > Light
EDIT. Curiously enough, but not surprisingly, I just happened upon the following quote as I randomly skimmed through one of Q'uo's sessions right now:
Quote:When you harness your will and focus it, you are a person of magic and power and that which you desire will come to you.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Spaced - 10-14-2012
I think that this issue of desire vs. temptation is related to the archetype of The Lovers, the Transformation of the Mind. Here's what Ra has to say about it:
Quote:99.8 Questioner: Thank you. In Card Number Six I see the Transformation of the Mind, the male with crossed arms, representing transformation. The transformation is possible either toward the left or the right-hand path. The path is beckoned or led by the female, the Potentiator. The one on the right has the serpent of wisdom at the brow and is fully clothed, the one on the left having less clothing and indicating that the Potentiator is more concerned or attracted to the physical as the left-hand path is chosen and more concerned and attracted to the mental as the right-hand path is chosen.
The creature above points an arrow at the left-hand path indicating that if this path is chosen the chips, shall we say, will fall where they may, the path being unprotected as far as the activity of catalyst. The intellectual abilities of the chooser of the left-hand path would be the main guardian rather than the designed or built-in protection of the Logos for the right-hand path. The entity firing the arrow seems to be a second density entity which indicates that this catalyst could be produced by a lesser evolved source, you might say. Would Ra comment on these observations?
Ra: I am Ra. We shall speak upon several aspects seriatim. Firstly, let us examine the crossed arms of the male who is to be transformed. What, O student, do you make of the crossing? What see you in this tangle? There is a creative point to be found in this element which was not discussed overmuch by the questioner.
Let us now observe the evaluation of the two females. The observation that to the left-hand path moves the roughly physical and to the right-hand path the mental has a shallow correctness. There are deeper observations to be made concerning the relationship of the great sea of the unconscious mind to the conscious mind which may fruitfully be pursued. Remember, O student, that these images are not literal. They haunt rather than explicate.
Many use the trunk and roots of mind as if that portion of mind were a badly used, prostituted entity. Then this entity gains from this great storehouse that which is rough, prostituted, and without great virtue. Those who turn to the deep mind, seeing it in the guise of the maiden, go forth to court it. The courtship has nothing of plunder in its semblance and may be protracted, yet the treasure gained by such careful courtship is great. The right-hand and left-hand transformations of the mind may be seen to differ by the attitude of the conscious mind towards its own resources as well as the resources of other-selves.
We now speak of that genie, or elemental, or mythic figure, culturally determined, which sends the arrow to the left-hand transformation. This arrow is not the arrow which kills but rather that which, in its own way, protects. Those who choose separation, that being the quality most indicative of the left-hand path, are protected from other-selves by a strength and sharpness equivalent to the degree of transformation which the mind has experienced in the negative sense. Those upon the right-hand path have no such protection against other-selves for upon that path the doughty seeker shall find many mirrors for reflection in each other-self it encounters.
The difference to me is the attitude regarding your desires. Do you act on them in the physical simply to satisfy your orange ray wants, or do you raise them up to higher energy center and think about WHY you want those things and whether you really need them? Once you consider the desire fully you can think about whether it would really benefit you to pursue it and then you can balance those desires with desires to serve others and follow the Law of One or simply let them fall away.
Does this make sense?
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Bring4th_Austin - 10-14-2012
(10-14-2012, 08:39 PM)Siren Wrote:(10-14-2012, 06:36 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: For instance, what would be the difference between temptation and desire?
Temptation is a presented/offered catalyst (which may accepted or denied). Desire is related to the direction of will (i.e. what you desire to seek, pursue and experience).
I'm not sure I see the distinction here. If there was no previous distortion/bias, then the offering of temptation would not even register as catalyst to the individual. Catalyst is only perceived as contrast due to our biases as an opportunity to explore these distortions. Ra says that encroaching negative entities may only energize pre-existing distortions. When Ra encourages an entity to experience all things desired, there is no specification or qualification; "all things desired."
What more is temptation, then, besides amplification of already-present desires? Why could one reserve the right to accept or deny "offered" catalyst and not other forms of catalyst, whatever that may be?
(10-14-2012, 09:00 PM)Spaced Wrote: The difference to me is the attitude regarding your desires. Do you act on them in the physical simply to satisfy your orange ray wants, or do you raise them up to higher energy center and think about WHY you want those things and whether you really need them? Once you consider the desire fully you can think about whether it would really benefit you to pursue it and then you can balance those desires with desires to serve others and follow the Law of One or simply let them fall away.
Does this make sense?
To a degree, but doesn't it seem a bit problematic when we try to combine the idea of "experiencing all things desired" and "considering all things desired?" It seems to me those two things may not always equal the same experience.
On top of that, removing the desire from the moment and subjecting it to study could potentially cause further distortion. "The key to balance may then be seen in the unstudied, spontaneous, and honest response of entities toward experiences, thus using experience to the utmost, then applying the balancing exercises and achieving the proper attitude for the most purified spectrum of energy center manifestation in violet ray. (41.19)" If we take the desire and think about it, how can we be sure that our distortions are not affecting our thought process in regards to this desire? Without the pure and raw desire it may not even be possible to be honest with ourselves about this desire.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - zenmaster - 10-15-2012
"Without the pure and raw desire it may not even be possible to be honest with ourselves about this desire."
Of course it's possible to be honest without being in that moment. You're just addressing another aspect of it. The mere fact that it's compelling to address the desire in that manner means that you're opening up to accept it. Honesty is taking what you've already accepted of yourself, so far, and addressing something, regardless of method. The unstudied response is from the standpoint of what has been accepted.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - reeay - 10-15-2012
My circular and multi-directional reasoning mind is at odds with linearity of temptation&desire, as well as will&desire. They interact with each other, not necessarily one causing the other? Maybe I'm just complicating things but there were lots of points that seem to converge for me.
Trying to understand these concepts with an example...
E.g., When there is temptation, perhaps, these temptations are offered through the understanding of a person’s existing desires. Temptations may also influence a person to develop certain desires, or strengthen a previously small desire. The STO person’s desire to help others may be used by STS to tempt the STO into believing that rewards for service may be earned (fame, success, being in a community etc.,). The reward for service ignites the desire to have these rewards as the STO experiences a satisfaction from a reward.
Yet the person with a discipline of personality, self knowledge, and control is able to observe what is occurring without immediately acting upon one’s desire. The desire is the catalyst thus must not be rejected as a temptation. For example, the STO’s desire to be a part of a community, with the understanding of Law of One may be in the form of collaborating and working with others. From a negative space, this may mean having groupies and such (like a cult-ish group). So why overcome this desire? It is a positive movement to desire a sense of community.
Control as repression vs. control as moderation
I took Ra’s mention of control as the capacity to moderate our impulses (thoughts/emotions/actions). For example, the “executive function” of our frontal lobe allows us to interpret information (memories, emotional memories, etc.,), develop various options, moderate our need to act immediately, execute response, and adjust them after obtaining external feedback/response.
And perhaps our ability to make choices using more than our “monkey brains” but our intuition, our collective memory etc. So as Spaced pointed, the difference between using the trunk and root of the mind and using the lower energy rays or higher energy rays .
If we were to have no control, we would be reacting upon our emotions and past emotional memories of our experiences, thus, in physical terms that would be like an “amygdala hijack” where the person is unable to moderate impulses and such to make decisions as the emotional charge becomes an overwhelming force. The decision is based more on survival.
When we are able to moderate and use our other capacities, we are able to step back and use other forms of knowing and understanding and decision making abilities.
So a disciplined personality would then, be able to step back and understand one’s desires to make better choices. Better choices could shift the nature of the desire that is more in tune with love/light. There's opportunity for understanding and accepting self without running on survival mode and reactive emotionality.
The focused attention of meditation or using imagination would then be instrumental to silently observe what is happening and more open to “communicating” with guidance. Perhaps then we may hear the “desire of the heart” as caycegal put? I always tell this to people... my mentor advises “think with your heart and sense with your brain.” I wonder if “heart” is an integration of body, mind, spirit?
Austin, 49.8, very useful thank you. Though I still believe that we need to even come to a point where we may sit in silence and without judgment.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Patrick - 10-15-2012
(10-14-2012, 09:00 PM)Spaced Wrote: ...
Quote:99.8 ...The right-hand and left-hand transformations of the mind may be seen to differ by the attitude of the conscious mind towards its own resources as well as the resources of other-selves......
The difference to me is the attitude regarding your desires. Do you act on them in the physical simply to satisfy your orange ray wants, or do you raise them up to higher energy center and think about WHY you want those things and whether you really need them? Once you consider the desire fully you can think about whether it would really benefit you to pursue it and then you can balance those desires with desires to serve others and follow the Law of One or simply let them fall away.
Does this make sense?
This is extremely helpful my friend.
Thank you so much!
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - native - 10-15-2012
(10-14-2012, 09:00 PM)Spaced Wrote: The difference to me is the attitude regarding your desires. Do you act on them in the physical simply to satisfy your orange ray wants, or do you raise them up to higher energy center and think about WHY you want those things and whether you really need them? Once you consider the desire fully you can think about whether it would really benefit you to pursue it and then you can balance those desires with desires to serve others and follow the Law of One or simply let them fall away.
I can agree with that statement, but it may not always be applicable. Perhaps a good definition of temptation is stimulation of past experience that has been proven to not be beneficial (energizing orange distortion further), whereas desire is actually pointing to orange blockage that needs to be experienced.
(10-14-2012, 10:19 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: If we take the desire and think about it, how can we be sure that our distortions are not affecting our thought process in regards to this desire? Without the pure and raw desire it may not even be possible to be honest with ourselves about this desire.
I've been focusing on communication between me and and ex lately, and it can be confusing. I've tried holding things in (because I know the response which at times can just push her away further) and attempting to accept what the experience is communicating to me (inpouring), yet the urge to express myself is still there. Once I do that, the energy is released and I'm able to be more accepting of the catalyst.
An issue I'm having is that I wonder if this desire to have certain perspectives addressed (i.e. my needs) isn't a "giving without expectation of return", or if it's the internal "polarities" waging a battle.
"The new material is this: once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of the individual. The indigo ray is opened only through considerable discipline and practice largely having to do with acceptance of self, not only as the polarized and balanced self but as the Creator, as an entity of infinite worth. This will begin to activate the indigo ray."
Perhaps a positively polarized individual has difficulty with the indigo ray, because that's where our positive and negative attributes are harmonized. I want to give always, but there is that part that pulls sometimes and says "me, me". So I feel like wanting my needs to be recognized is almost a form of control.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - native - 10-15-2012
More to chew on. I'll have to think about this..
Quote:80.11 Questioner: Could I say, then, that implicit in the process of becoming adept is the seeming polarization towards service to self because the adept becomes disassociated with many of his kind?
Ra: I am Ra. This is likely to occur. The apparent happening is disassociation whether the truth is service to self and thus true disassociation from other-selves or service to others and thus true association with the heart of all other-selves and disassociation only from the illusory husks which prevent the adept from correctly perceiving the self and other-self as one.
Category: The Two Paths
80.12 Questioner: Then you say that this effect of disassociation on the service-to-others adept is a stumbling block or slowing process in reaching that goal to which he aspires? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. This disassociation from the miasma of illusion and misrepresentation of each and every distortion is a quite necessary portion of an adept’s path. It may be seen by others to be unfortunate.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Patrick - 10-15-2012
(10-15-2012, 10:14 AM)Icaro Wrote: ...
"The new material is this: once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of the individual. The indigo ray is opened only through considerable discipline and practice largely having to do with acceptance of self, not only as the polarized and balanced self but as the Creator, as an entity of infinite worth. This will begin to activate the indigo ray."
Perhaps a positively polarized individual has difficulty with the indigo ray, because that's where our positive and negative attributes are harmonized. I want to give always, but there is that part that pulls sometimes and says "me, me". So I feel like wanting my needs to be recognized is almost a form of control.
Oh yes, that is the great work of balancing that comes with indigo ray work. Using the veiled 3d environment for this is very helpful.
(10-15-2012, 11:24 AM)Icaro Wrote: More to chew on. I'll have to think about this..
Here is even more to ponder on this interesting subject...
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2007/2007_0211.aspx Q'uo Wrote:...In this regard we would suggest that the skillful choice is always to work on the self without regard for working with other entities. Service to others, working upon what you perceive needs to be done in the world, begins and ends within yourself. Until the point at which you are asked specific questions that you may answer in what you hope is a spiritually helpful manner, the work you do on yourself is sufficient and more than adequate in terms of how you may affect the consciousness of planet Earth. Change yourself and you change the world. That is how powerful you really are...
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1995/1995_0924.aspx Q'uo Wrote:...The focus upon the self in the means of balancing distortions and looking for ways to understand more of what is occurring within the self is an activity that may seem to some to be full of pride and ego, yet we would suggest that such a concentration of an entity’s attention upon its own self in that manner is a means by which a seeker grows, for it needs to be aware of the activity of intellect, of emotion, and of the spirit that moves within one’s own being. Yet that information is used only to temper the steel, shall we say, the character of the entity, and not to impose this character upon another...
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2001/2001_0204.aspx Q'uo Wrote:...Many times, it seems to each, that there is no way that one person can be of service, that one person’s light can make a difference. However, this instrument is fond of saying that in a dark place the light of one candle can be seen for quite a distance. Metaphysically, this is far more true even than the physical truth of candles and sight. Each of you makes a significant difference to the lightening of the planet as well as to the lightening of your soul. For when each of you does one, each of you is doing the other. To work on the self is to work on the world. Indeed, to work on the self is the most direct and effective way to work on the outer world in a metaphysical sense...
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - AnthroHeart - 10-15-2012
I don't know but my desires seem pretty powerful and important to me.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - reeay - 10-15-2012
I really like the Qu'o quotes that Patrick posted. Thank you.
Even if a certain desire is difficult to understand and work through right now, with inner "work," our capacity to be able to understand and accept ourselves for what it is develops over time. Perhaps we may be able to see our desires in a new light with new self knowledge and more space for honesty. So perhaps what we could not do couple years ago, we could do now. E.g., if we all look at something we really wanted when we were teenagers. Looking at it now, is it the same? Might if we have not integrated that aspect of our self that still is attached to a certain desire.
Also I wonder if Ra's replies are contextually based on the question, e.g., re: temptation... is that a specific temptation of STS trying to tempt an STO? Is it a temptation that we experience in general? I thought it was a specific type of temptation that Ra was talking about (STS tempting STO). Doesn't seem to fit with our general temptations. Or is he talking about desires and temptations in general?
Another contextual issue re: desires. The original question was about the desire to "that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for the individual to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it is called, or enlightenment." Within this context, the answer is about the desire to give up our desires for the "ego" and "material world."
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - βαθμιαίος - 10-15-2012
I don't remember Ra saying to deny temptations. I think they just pointed out that channels would be offered temptations.
If the temptations are indeed tempting, imagining them as Ra suggested might be a helpful response.
In Don's case, he apparently wasn't even aware of the temptations he was being offered:
Quote:67.23 Questioner: I personally have felt no effect that I am aware of. Is it possible for you to tell me how we are offered this service?
Ra: I am Ra. The questioner has been offered the service of doubting the self and of becoming disheartened over various distortions of the personal nature. This entity has not chosen to use these opportunities and the Orion entity has basically ceased to be interested in maintaining constant surveillance of this entity.
However, that was in 1981. I wonder if by 1984 he was more receptive to the temptations to despair, etc.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Patrick - 10-15-2012
(10-15-2012, 04:09 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: ...
However, that was in 1981. I wonder if by 1984 he was more receptive to the temptations to despair, etc.
Probably. Or they decided to really temper with Don, the LOO being much too good information and so much too dangerous for the plans of domination of our planet.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Bring4th_Austin - 10-15-2012
(10-15-2012, 03:32 PM)rie Wrote: Also I wonder if Ra's replies are contextually based on the question, e.g., re: temptation... is that a specific temptation of STS trying to tempt an STO? Is it a temptation that we experience in general? I thought it was a specific type of temptation that Ra was talking about (STS tempting STO). Doesn't seem to fit with our general temptations. Or is he talking about desires and temptations in general?
There definitely is some context involved which may be confusing my understanding. Out of 11 mentions of temptation in the material, 9 are dealing specifically with psychic greeting from STS entities offering temptation to channels. The other 2 are dealing with the "temptation to feel different from those who are less intelligent and less strong," or temptation towards elitism.
What I am stuck on is the idea that we cannot be tempted with something unless there is an existing predisposition. I view this as our desires being highlighted, rather than random and spontaneous temptations. That's perhaps something else I am not understanding properly.
(10-15-2012, 04:09 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I don't remember Ra saying to deny temptations. I think they just pointed out that channels would be offered temptations.
If the temptations are indeed tempting, imagining them as Ra suggested might be a helpful response.
I suppose I am inferring something that wasn't really there, however, it seems to me that Ra is saying that in order for channels to continue offering useful material, temptation cannot be given into. Also, giving into offered temptations results in polarization for the STS being offering.
Do you think that in offering the self to be a channel, one must sacrifice their evolution in order to remain a clear channel?
Also, do you think that polarity is won by the offering entity if the person uses their imagination to explore the temptation? In a way, it is still giving in to the temptation.
Quote:In Don's case, he apparently wasn't even aware of the temptations he was being offered:
Quote:67.23 Questioner: I personally have felt no effect that I am aware of. Is it possible for you to tell me how we are offered this service?
Ra: I am Ra. The questioner has been offered the service of doubting the self and of becoming disheartened over various distortions of the personal nature. This entity has not chosen to use these opportunities and the Orion entity has basically ceased to be interested in maintaining constant surveillance of this entity.
Do you think this means that he wasn't aware of the temptations or that he was aware of them and chose to ignore them?
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - βαθμιαίος - 10-15-2012
(10-15-2012, 05:00 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I suppose I am inferring something that wasn't really there, however, it seems to me that Ra is saying that in order for channels to continue offering useful material, temptation cannot be given into. Also, giving into offered temptations results in polarization for the STS being offering.
Do you think imagining oneself in the tempting situation is giving in to the temptation? It doesn't seem that way to me.
(10-15-2012, 05:00 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Do you think that in offering the self to be a channel, one must sacrifice their evolution in order to remain a clear channel?
No, because I think they could work through the temptation just like they work through other desires "not consonant with the Law of One."
(10-15-2012, 05:00 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Do you think this means that he wasn't aware of the temptations or that he was aware of them and chose to ignore them?
Maybe he was aware of his tendency to doubt the self but didn't realize it was being Orion energized.
(10-15-2012, 05:00 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Also, do you think that polarity is won by the offering entity if the person uses their imagination to explore the temptation? In a way, it is still giving in to the temptation.
Just saw this part. I guess that's the crux. Is it wrong to give in to a temptation mentally?
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Bring4th_Austin - 10-15-2012
It was a ninja edit :p
I think that's a good question, and I suppose I would lean towards it not being "wrong" to explore temptation mentally. I still struggle with the idea of "the will" though, because it seems to me that the focus of one's attention is the focus of one's will. The question I would have is, "is the depolarizing effects of directing one's attention away from one's chosen path negated if the intent is to ultimately distill and interpret a service-to-others result from the experience?"
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - βαθμιαίος - 10-15-2012
I'm not sure it's depolarizing. You're accepting your complete self, vainglorious, despairing -- warts and all. That seems like a profoundly positive action.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - reeay - 10-15-2012
How about Jesus and the temptation to exercise his power over others? Did he have predispositions that correlated with the specific temptation?
Quote:17.16 Questioner: When Jesus of Nazareth incarnated was there an attempt by the Orion group to discredit him in some way?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
17.17 Questioner: Can you tell me what the Orion group did in order to try to cause his downfall?
Ra: I am Ra. We may describe in general what occurred. The technique was that of building upon other negatively oriented information. This information had been given by the one whom your peoples called “Yahweh.” This information involved many strictures upon behavior and promised power of the third-density, service-to-self nature. These two types of distortions were impressed upon those already oriented to think these thought-forms.
This eventually led to many challenges of the entity known as Jesus. It eventually led to one, sound vibration complex “Judas,” as you call this entity, who believed that it was doing the appropriate thing in bringing about or forcing upon the one you call Jesus the necessity for bringing in the third-density planetary power distortion of third-density rule over others.
This entity, Judas, felt that, if pushed into a corner, the entity you call Jesus would then be able to see the wisdom of using the power of intelligent infinity in order to rule others. The one you call Judas was mistaken in this estimation of the reaction of the entity, Jesus, whose teach/learning was not oriented towards this distortion. This resulted in the destruction of the bodily complex of the one known as Jesus to you.
17.19 Questioner: How did Jesus learn this during his incarnation?
Ra: I am Ra. This entity learned the ability by a natural kind of remembering at a very young age. Unfortunately, this entity first discovered his ability to penetrate intelligent infinity by becoming the distortion you call “angry” at a playmate. This entity was touched by the entity known as Jesus to you and was fatally wounded.
Thus the one known as Jesus became aware that there dwelt in him a terrible potential. This entity determined to discover how to use this energy for the good, not for the negative. This entity was extremely positively polarized and remembered more than most Wanderers do.
17.20 Questioner: How did this aggressive action against a playmate affect Jesus in his spiritual growth? Where did he go after his physical death?
Ra: I am Ra. The entity you call Jesus was galvanized by this experience and began a lifetime of seeking and searching....
...When the entity had become able to integrate or synthesize all experiences, the entity began to speak to other-selves and teach/learn what it had felt during the preceding years to be of an worthwhile nature. The entity was absolved karmically of the destruction of an other-self when it was in its last portion of lifetime and spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma.
I don't see why it can go the other way? Is there someone in our history that had no predisposition who, through temptations, created desires oriented to STS?
Is it possible to have desires on a collective level that we may not be aware of individually that may be brought up to the forefront with temptations offered?
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - Siren - 10-15-2012
(10-14-2012, 10:19 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: I'm not sure I see the distinction here. If there was no previous distortion/bias, then the offering of temptation would not even register as catalyst to the individual.
Maybe not, but temptation needn't be blatantly obvious, and non-recognition of a catalysts/opportunity doesn't deny the fact that the catalyst/opportunity is nevertheless being presented. Oftentimes both a temptation and catalyst may be very subtle.
Quote:What more is temptation, then, besides amplification of already-present desires?
Quote:Ra says that encroaching negative entities may only energize pre-existing distortions.
Naturally. To tempt somebody who has never in his life had any interest whatsoever in alcohol to get drunk would prove rather futile, for example. Temptation will always aim at the "chinks in the armor," as it were, to bring afloat and amplify already existing biases and distortions, negative (self-serving) desires, as well as repressed and subconscious desires.
Each entity holds several desires/distortions within itself. Not all of them hold the same degree of priority, purity or intensity. Some desires are so faint they may not even be considered/recognized as desires, but nevertheless exist, perhaps "hidden" (repressed?) within the deep recesses of the psyche.
Quote:Why could one reserve the right to accept or deny "offered" catalyst and not other forms of catalyst, whatever that may be?
You can accept or deny any presented catalyst, not just in the guise of "temptation."
Quote:When Ra encourages an entity to experience all things desired, there is no specification or qualification; "all things desired."
This derives from the very simple fact that repression of desire is not helpful/useful/beneficial for neither positive or negative entity, and is ultimately counter-productive. All distortions and desires need be dealt with accordingly sooner or later.
The original desire is that all entities seek and become One. Everything else are viable avenues/choices of experience, or distortions of that original desire.
It is ultimately recognized that the One will experience all things desired, and thus know Itself.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - βαθμιαίος - 10-15-2012
(10-15-2012, 05:45 PM)rie Wrote: I don't see why it can go the other way? Is there someone in our history that had no predisposition who, through temptations, created desires oriented to STS?
Is it possible to have desires on a collective level that we may not be aware of individually that may be brought up to the forefront with temptations offered?
Well, speaking of context, it's true that Ra gave this advice to three specific individuals and that it was to some extent a follow-up on the healing protocol that was, presumably, geared towards Wanderers. So maybe it wouldn't or doesn't work for everyone.
For me, though, it's been very powerfully healing.
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - reeay - 10-15-2012
Don, Jesus, and Carla?
Edit: Sorry - I get it now Don, Jim, and Carla... Jesus did not receive advice from Ra lol
RE: Overcoming Desires/Letting it Fall Away - native - 10-16-2012
Thanks for the quotes Patrick.
I know one example of temptation was in reference to Jim and his move to Portland. He was to become a part of some lightworker oriented group, and it potentially involved money I believe.