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Capitalism - turtledude23 - 04-18-2011
This thread is written from the perspective of someone who spent their whole life in Canada and watched alot of U.S. TV, I assume capitalism isn't as bad in Europe, Australia and New Zealand.
Capitalism was invented in a time when people thought resources were infinite, we now know this isn't the case. It's based on the idea that a company can grow forever, but this isn't possible, only cancer can do that. People who defend it like to say: the good lives we have now are a result of it. But can we know that for sure? As we know the technology we have today is mostly the result of wanderers, without which we would still be slaving away as serfs on a farm for 12 hours a day.
What are our alternatives?
I think the best option is The Venus Project as explained in Zeitgeist: Moving Forward http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w but it would be very difficult for an entire country to transition towards that immediately so there would have to be an intermediate step which still allows for the existence of money but which maintains an equality of wealth among all people (e.g. minimum and maximum income) but without restricting individual freedom as much as communism would. I think the ideal balance between Capitalism and Socialism is Social Democracy like what is in place in Sweden and other Scandinavian countries. Lets not confuse with freedoms for a business with freedoms for a human being, forcing businesses to act ethically is not fascism because a business without any regulation is literally a mafia - what Milton Friedman proposed is corporate controlled fascism. The only good businesses do for a country are: they create jobs, and they provide goods and services (though we now mostly get goods from other countries). A business is not concerned with maximizing job creation or providing the highest quality goods and services, they're concerned with maximizing profits. It was once argued they would achieve profits through quality products but this is no longer true with advertising, several companies can try to sell you the same bar of soap by appealing to your emotions and biases rather than providing you with factual information about the soap.
The biggest economic boom in the "Western" countries was between 1945 and 1973 when corporate taxes were high and governments invested in infrastructure. Its well known that the U.S. got out of the Great Depression because of WW2 because of the jobs created - but who paid for those workers? The government. If the government can end a depression by paying people to build things that kill people, they can do the same by paying people to help people - which is exactly why England created the NHS.
What I wonder is this: can a fair government be "forced" upon a society which "isn't ready" for it? I think some would argue a government is a natural result of the consciousness of a society, but I don't think that's true. As we saw in the Metaphysical Democracy thread we all firmly believe theres a large gap between the will of an average citizen who wants a better society and the will of those in power, so saying they'll make changes because a large portion of people who won't even express their opinion want it is ridiculous. My psychology professor said that Abraham Lincoln said something along the lines of: "if we wait for the people to be ready for an end to slavery it will never happen, we must force it" (if anyone could find the exact quote I'd appreciate it). Also Martin Luther King faced opposition from supposed liberal supporters who said "I want African-Americans to be treated equally but why are you getting so many people angry? Why not just wait longer and let it happen on its own?" to which he said something along the lines of "We've waited 100 years, if we don't act it will never happen. I'm only doing do this because I've been left with no other choice, why are you blaming the victims?". Frankly I don't think there's very many people on the planet who would not accept a fairer government where they're taken care of no matter what life throws at them, the only people who wouldn't like it are the rich elites and/or people on an STS path, in which case they can GTFO and move to a country more supportive of their views like Saudi Arabia or the U.S. because as far as I can tell rich people who only care about getting richer are harmful to a society, not helpful.
I think the main thing preventing a better society is mainstream media: it provides very little difference in opinions in large issues, and I don't mean the liberal vs conservative opinion, I mean the liberal-conservative cabal opinion vs the anarchist opinion, socialist opinion, social democrat opinion, libertarian opinion, zeitgeist movement opinion, etc. If our media had the gonads to remember Watergate, the fake Gulf of Tonkin incident, and the lies about WMDs in Iraq and assume politicians are lying rather than telling the truth then instead of the news being: government offical's speech, period; or government offical's speech, liberal opinion, conservative opinion; it could be: what the hell is wrong with our society and how can we fix it NOW? why are we paying attention to these lying jerks who won't do anything good for us unless we demand it? why do we have the money for corporate tax cuts but not for more jobs?
RE: Capitalism - Ocean - 04-18-2011
i don't trust Zeitgeist, as no one movement should be IT. and they are supported by the clintons.
i like the idea of corporations with souls, like Steve Rother puts it, where corporations are treated as one entity responsible for its actions. the entity and the people who make up the body and oversoul of the entity would be held accountable like any human, for its actions in the world.
i agree media is something that controls minds. my mom won't believe me when i say stuff about aliens but if she heard it on TV, from the president, she's be all oh, ok. she actually told me this. she won't believe aliens are here unless she hears it from the president. it's like people trust TV like it can't lie. if something is said on mainstream TV it's true.
RE: Capitalism - 3DMonkey - 04-18-2011
Oo. That's a long post. (going straight out the back door, Teach. J/k ;-))
USA helped to reshape the way the world works. It was necessary at the time and ultimately a good thing. As does everything, it is becoming outdated. The fast pace of today's progression won't allow any current government to keep it's tradition. The old rules don't apply anymore.
We are changing. We are in the process. It will have some ugly times ahead as the "hangers-on" will resist (they will be from both polarities). But we know, since we are open to LOO, that there is much more at play than politics. We, the people of 3D, have been changing the shape of our existence, and now, we continue as the truths presented in LOO start to take hold of us all in a real sense.
RE: Capitalism - norral - 04-19-2011
being part african myself and 63 years old i remember the civil rights struggle well. i live in new york city thank God i dont think i would have done well living in a place like mississippi. even though funny thing i was stationed in mississippi for over a year to go to tech school. didnt really like it never felt comfortable there. we were just talking about some of the ideas u broach last night at work. man has essentially destroyed the planet in the pursuit of wealth. these weather shocks we are having are a part of a great cleansing that is going on and imo it is going to get worse . instead of living in harmony with the planet we have raped her and she is not happy to say the least with what we have done. we've drilled and strip mined and put nuclear plants all over the place and the planet has had enuf. the next two years are going to be challenging to say the least. thanks for the stimulating thoughts turtle i always enjoy your posts. are u still in canada ?
norral
RE: Capitalism - 3DMonkey - 04-19-2011
On the other hand, all that we have is from earth. Nothing is here that wasn't already here. In that regard, we have loved the earth for all that it has provided us.
RE: Capitalism - turtledude23 - 04-19-2011
(04-19-2011, 07:15 AM)norral Wrote: thanks for the stimulating thoughts turtle i always enjoy your posts. are u still in canada ?
Thank you. Yes I am, in Toronto, not too far from New York.
The way many people rape the planet to use it for its resources (and sadly we all support this indirectly unless if we live totally self sufficiently - though its our intent that counts) reminds me of what Ra said about one of the tarot archetypes, I think it was Transformation of Mind, about how you can use the unconscious mind as a whore and it will treat you the same, or you can treat it well and it will treat you well.