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+--- Thread: The Narcissist/Submissivity Thread (inb4 cognitive dissonance) (/showthread.php?tid=19842)
The Narcissist/Submissivity Thread (inb4 cognitive dissonance) - meadow-foreigner - 03-25-2022
Narcissism (orange-ray pattern) is a consequence of social conditioning (orange/yellow rays). Its causes are social (yellow-ray). It is a pattern.
Straight to the point: narcissists seek gains in each and every relationship they have because they believe every gain comes from external sources of validation or providence.
Oftentimes it's not possible to starve a narcissistic structure (i.e.: household); however, it is possible to predict their behavior, rendering their tactics and salads useless.
To every narcissist, love is conditional, and every relationship transactional.
They have been conditioned to believe that fear precedes any gain, and thus they project its expectation to other-Selves: as long as [an]other Self/Group fears them, the narcissist feels safe and/or loved, belonging, and working for a cause deemed valuable.Thus, the narcissist rationalizes every relationship on zero-sum terms: "to exist a gain, there has to exist a loss".
The narcissist, consequently, is indebted to their own limiting beliefs, and tends to worship greater narcissists ー usually suppliers of resources ー while draining lesser narcissists seeking their praise: submissive people.
Every narcissist, in a masked crying wojak manner, feels superior to their prey. They engage in micro-aggressions, covertly or overtly, to make their target believe they are the dominant part, that is, the supplier part, in a relationship.
And, because everyone has demands, everyone is vulnerable to narcissistic manipulation.
There are two main variants of narcissistic behavior:
The external-oriented narcissist,
and the internal-oriented narcissist:
and the internal-oriented narcissist:
▪The former seeks to rationalise their lacks by believing that the one true change can only come from an external source of power: God, Government, Spirituality, money, affection, intercourses, family. When confronted with basic Buddhism, they spill some half-baked Marxism to attempt to justify their means of believing what they do.
▪The latter seeks to rationalise their lacks by believing that the one true change can only come from an internal source of power: their Self. When confronted with basic economics, they spill some half-baked Marxism to attempt to justify their means of believing what they do.
Other manipulations include proxying, drama-instilling, hooking, and blackmail.
▪Proxying: because they lack acceptance of things as they are, they tend to play with pronouns and make-believe stories, in attempts to guess a person's reasoning. Triangulation and objectification of affection or love are very common.▪Drama-instilling: because they lack balance, they seek positive reinforcement through negativity. Fallacies such as the lesser/necessary evil, separation-inducing rhetoric, tragedy fabrication and other similar manipulations are oftentimes used to gain resources from their counterparts.
▪Hooking: the narcissist offers a bait to catch anyone's attention, only to then drain their energy, usually keeping crumbles as their leeches' food.
▪Blackmail: the narcissist attempts to dissuade anyone from distancing from them throughout employment of emotional blabber, rationalization rethorics and heterodox ambivalent demonstrations of Self-change, to keep their targets dependant and/or submissive to the narcissist.
Every narcissist sees the world through their orange-tinged lenses. To them, any living being is merely a supplier of satisfaction, and there is no true fulfillment in life except for the continuous attainment of that false pleasure, usually erotic, but oftentimes also egotistical.
Every relationship with a narcissist is hierarchical, with a dominant/submissive dialectic, or drainer and drained.
Finally, there are healthy alternatives to living, and freeing beliefs to rewire a fundamentally narcissistic subjectivity.
Write down your experiences with narcissism, and share them with others.
Knowledge protects more than a triggerable button.
RE: The Narcissist/Submissivity Thread (inb4 cognitive dissonance) - Phoenix - 06-23-2022
I got mega, mega into this topic and have felt that a lot of people close to me are narcissists. Or at least have behaviours I can find in those videos.
My thoughts:
I think narcissism partly stems from the inability to admit 'wrongdoing'. And when the pressure grows on them to admit their behaviour may have been less than practical, sensible or moral they double down.
I also suspect, since this form of information, of creating a metaphorical term "narcissism" in order to explain certain behaviours, it is very similar to biblical and other spiritual teachings and I believe it comes at its most basic level from positive spirits. It is a very basic metaphor to explain the negative polarity in it's most basic, daily form.
Also, the term for 'protection' for non narcissists is something called "grey rock". I notice that this technique is also something that I learn from doing dream interpretation. Due to the personal nature of dreams (i.e. if you received a written letter from God would you tell anyone?) it creates this space in me of information I simply can't confide in others. Since part of what I have experienced as bullying is me freely sharing with others and this being used as gossip against me. After a few years of this I simply don't confide anything in anyone and my personality just completely changed!
RE: The Narcissist/Submissivity Thread (inb4 cognitive dissonance) - tadeus - 06-26-2022
meadow-foreigner, can you please elaborate the dependencies between Narcissism, Submissivity and the Cognitive Dissonance ?
RE: The Narcissist/Submissivity Thread (inb4 cognitive dissonance) - meadow-foreigner - 06-29-2022
(06-26-2022, 08:09 AM)tadeus Wrote: meadow-foreigner, can you please elaborate the dependencies between Narcissism, Submissivity and the Cognitive Dissonance ?
In short, it's a titter-totter dialectic. There's only a dominant part (the narcissist) while there's a dominated part (the submissive).
The cognitive dissonance part is an expected reaction from people in the aforementioned dynamic, usually expressed as denial or distortion of facts, which tends to block people from understanding the issues about such dialectic.
RE: The Narcissist/Submissivity Thread (inb4 cognitive dissonance) - IndigoSalvia - 06-29-2022
I've wondered about how what we call narcissism (and other names) translates into Law of One, e.g., STO/STS, free will, etc.
Initially, I related STS with narcissistic energies, and STO with the 'supplier' energies. Upon closer inspection, it is much more nuanced and subtle than this, IMO; it is not as clear cut and facile as this.
And, then there's the matter of one's level of awareness or consciousness. If/when one becomes aware that one is playing either role, what does one do?
Being sensitive, my experiences with narcissistic others/self leave me very drained and discombobulated. Though these interactions are challenging for me, they teach me a lot. AFOG.
I am still asking myself: where are the narcissistic and the giver parts of me? Am I satisfied with this balance or might I like to change it?
RE: The Narcissist/Submissivity Thread (inb4 cognitive dissonance) - meadow-foreigner - 06-30-2022
(06-29-2022, 10:49 PM)IndigoSalvia Wrote: I've wondered about how what we call narcissism (and other names) translates into Law of One, e.g., STO/STS, free will, etc.
Initially, I related STS with narcissistic energies, and STO with the 'supplier' energies. Upon closer inspection, it is much more nuanced and subtle than this, IMO; it is not as clear cut and facile as this.
And, then there's the matter of one's level of awareness or consciousness. If/when one becomes aware that one is playing either role, what does one do?
Being sensitive, my experiences with narcissistic others/self leave me very drained and discombobulated. Though these interactions are challenging for me, they teach me a lot. AFOG.
I am still asking myself: where are the narcissistic and the giver parts of me? Am I satisfied with this balance or might I like to change it?
It is indeed a subtle dynamic. In Ra's terminology, narcissistic/submissive dynamics are a consequence of orange ray blockage (either/or hyper/hypo activation).
An example of orange ray blockage, as stated by Ra, is a desire, in regards to other-Selves, to possess (usually narcissistic) and/or be possessed (usually submissive).
When you realize you're playing such role, it may be useful to engage in corporeal movement activities that promote true mindfulness to your mind-body connection.
True-color orange, as stated by Ra, simply is, without differentiation. It is movement in and on by itself.
As in the draining aspects of narcissism/submissivity; it is so due to its characteristic orange-ray blockage. Both are STS by definition, as there are egotistical gains in both ends of such dynamic.
An obvious and well-known example is that of the so-called 'toxic relationships', in that titter-totter dominant/submissive roles.
Other, more subtler examples are often explicited by people's behavioral attitudes in regards to other-Selves: patronizing/condescending attitudes, usually paired with micro-aggressions and a self-centered mentality. All signs of narcissism/submissivity.
It is a hierarchical dynamic by definition: predatory-like, inspiring itself from certain animal behaviors, usually feline.
Most importantly, it is incomplete, and unsustainable.
As for a sidenote: there's a close resemblance in the usage of the upside-down smiley and the archetypical Significator of the Body (The Hanged Man tarot card). You may want to check on why you subconsciously used it.
RE: The Narcissist/Submissivity Thread (inb4 cognitive dissonance) - Phoenix - 07-20-2022
I think this subject is probably too complex for a simple thread. I read through a bit of what has been said but it barely scratches the surface. As meadow foreigner explained it is a SUBTLE DYNAMIC. Creators in this field can make a video a day for many years. There is just so much.
When I was bullied in the office job and came away from that and discovered the term NARCISSIST It seemed to explain something so completely. But it is hard to explain this to others. It is something that is hard to capture. That sense of having someone focused on you and intending to create harm. It just can't be explained to people who are not inclined to understand it. There is a "feel" to it.
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I do think though of the narcissistic dynamics I have observed. Casual sex is very closely linked. It has clicked for me more than once someones behaviour when I have read the section on orange ray blockage in relation to causal sex.
Whenever I have seen a quote from Maria Consiglio I have thought it was spot on. I recall the Law of One material also said that people who are orange ray blocked feel they are "right on an individual level":
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I also don't know whether it is a real term or just a catch all term for energy blockages and toxic behaviour in general. In general there is a huge benefit to actually being able to name such a creature in order to start to understand. Without the term narc the terms of the problems such as "gaslighting" and "triangulation" would not become concepts. Where the Law of One stated that in relation to well meant and unintentional slavery it 'beggars our abilities to ennumerate on them', perhaps that is what some of wanderers here are doing.
One of the really good teachers on this area is a woman I believe to be a sixth density wanderer called Dr Ramani. Right now though I just wanted to drop this five minute clip from Sam Vaknin. He is one of those that has a very specific eye to the issue, and regularly corrects anywhere he believes there is a mis step in the theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE4nEbj8On0
I think the biggest mistake a lot of us make with narcissistic behaviour is we take it personally. But at the end of the day it really is all about them.