+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Studies (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Spiritual Development & Metaphysical Matters (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. (/showthread.php?tid=19800)
Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Ming the Merciful - 03-09-2022
Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price.
I don't know whether this is acceptable in the sense of Spiritual Awakening, except I am watching it in practice. The above quote is what I saw on the side of a truck, in the "Anti-Mandate Vaccination" Convoy. Has anybody been watching that on Social Media? I started watching it on YouTube a week ago, and now it has gotten to the point where if I cannot be there physically, (I am with them in Spirit). If you want to see Awakening people, then I highly recommend viewing it on live-stream.
The point I have always made since joining the "Law of One", is that Spirituality does not have to be Spiritual. What does that mean? In the act of spreading Peace, Love & Acceptance, (without preconditions), that in itself is a Spiritual Act. When I watch the Truckers from every State of the United States, and the Unity they are spreading, it gives you an insight of what Humanity could be if we all work together as a single entity. The Anti-Mandate Convoy is opening the eyes of a lot of people, meanwhile their core philosophy is, it must be done in peace and with respect. There have been several incidents where the convoy was cancelled or diverted the route so as not to cause offense or dangers to others. In other words, in their goal of achieving an anti-mandates, they are thinking of others first. That is true Altruism.
As far as I see it, the convoy is the proof that "Something" is happening within Humanity. We could look at the convoy at a mundane level and say it is only truckers demonstrating against a principle. I think it goes deeper than that, because there are Spiritual Undertones in their fight, (knowingly or unknowingly). It is because of actions like this, changes are made in Humanity.
I send Peace, Love & Blessings to all the truckers in the convoy and that they achieve their goals. Although since the beginning of the convoy in California, it has become more than mandates. There is talk of also demonstrating again the cost of fuel, food, political corruption and other issues. I wait in expectation as the movement grows.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Patrick - 03-09-2022
It seems that sometimes we need to ask for our freedom. Maybe fighting per se is like asking very loudly and strongly. But it is certainly not the only way to ask. Of course, we should not need to ask for our freedom, but that is another matter.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Ming the Merciful - 03-09-2022
(03-09-2022, 07:15 PM)Patrick Wrote: It seems that sometimes we need to ask for our freedom. Maybe fighting per se is like asking very loudly and strongly. But it is certainly not the only way to ask. Of course, we should not need to ask for our freedom, but that is another matter.
Thank you Patrick my friend. True Spirituality in itself is Freedom, or the realization of Freedom. True Liberation. Another point too, is that when we are aware of the Unity that it creates once we know ourselves as Liberated. That is true Spirituality. Not only are the truckers demonstrating against the mandates, they want to reverse the events of what has happened the last two years. We are only free once we have been liberated.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Mettadohm - 04-10-2022
Thank you for this thread. I appreciate the input from Ming and Patrick. Thank you for being. I enjoy exploring/contemplating concepts like freedom, justice, and karma.
Buckminster Fuller once said "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."
While I do not agree with absolutes (never/always) I see his underlying point of using your energy wisely. To fight something takes energy, sometimes it takes a lot of energy. To build something requires energy. The energy you expend while fighting is energy that you are not able to use for creation. Many systems that we find oppressive in our current reality seek opposition. They want you to fight, because when you attempt to overcome something/someone through opposition there is still an energy exchange. I cannot play "the game" unless I have an opponent to play against. If I believe/live in duality, I am seeking opposition to validate my position.
In terms of the concept of freedom, I see it as the default existence for all beings. Freedom is the absence of fear. Freedom or lack of freedom occurs only in the mind regardless of the perceived constraints on my physical body (illusion). If I am not free, it is because I believe that I am not free. Someone can break down my door, put a gun to my head and demand that I comply with whatever they want. I am free to not comply (or comply) and if they shoot my body then and there, I die free, ready to continue my mind/spirit development without any constraint or restriction (karma) from that previous interaction. Meanwhile the mind/body/spirit complex who fired the weapon has, in a way, imprisoned themselves through their own karma.
All this is merely a poorly articulated version of my limited perspective, which is derived from my experience in this current life. I welcome alternate perspectives and information that can be integrated with my current understanding. May we all walk in the love/light of the one infinite creator.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - IndigoSalvia - 04-10-2022
I enjoy the variety of interpretations of freedom. I like the notion of freedom as a state of mind regardless of circumstance (illusion). To me there seems to be a choice, an opportunity in each moment. Yet, frequently I act as if my sense of freedom is contingent upon something not of me. Perhaps I can look at each moment as an opportunity to choose freedom, choose love, choose unity ... in unexpected places.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Dtris - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 12:56 PM)Mettadohm Wrote: Thank you for this thread. I appreciate the input from Ming and Patrick. Thank you for being. I enjoy exploring/contemplating concepts like freedom, justice, and karma.
Buckminster Fuller once said "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."
While I do not agree with absolutes (never/always) I see his underlying point of using your energy wisely. To fight something takes energy, sometimes it takes a lot of energy. To build something requires energy. The energy you expend while fighting is energy that you are not able to use for creation. Many systems that we find oppressive in our current reality seek opposition. They want you to fight, because when you attempt to overcome something/someone through opposition there is still an energy exchange. I cannot play "the game" unless I have an opponent to play against. If I believe/live in duality, I am seeking opposition to validate my position.
In terms of the concept of freedom, I see it as the default existence for all beings. Freedom is the absence of fear. Freedom or lack of freedom occurs only in the mind regardless of the perceived constraints on my physical body (illusion). If I am not free, it is because I believe that I am not free. Someone can break down my door, put a gun to my head and demand that I comply with whatever they want. I am free to not comply (or comply) and if they shoot my body then and there, I die free, ready to continue my mind/spirit development without any constraint or restriction (karma) from that previous interaction. Meanwhile the mind/body/spirit complex who fired the weapon has, in a way, imprisoned themselves through their own karma.
All this is merely a poorly articulated version of my limited perspective, which is derived from my experience in this current life. I welcome alternate perspectives and information that can be integrated with my current understanding. May we all walk in the love/light of the one infinite creator.
I don't think I will present anything alternative to what you said. I think you articulated fairly well the central point. Freedom is not something you ask for. Free Will is a primal distortion of the Law of One, it exists in all life. You can never be given freedom from someone else, you can only give away your freedom yourself.
Buckminster Fuller was also spot on. The most intelligent way to fight something, is to put energy into an alternative.
I do think in our world freedom is something that needs to be fought for. But strictly speaking you don't fight for freedom, you fight against those who would attempt to have you give them your freedom. The best way to do this is by demonstrating that you will not do so. This takes many forms, and as long as you are true to yourself and maintaining your boundaries then you are affirming the freedom that is natural to all life.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Mettadohm - 04-11-2022
(04-10-2022, 10:26 PM)Dtris Wrote: I do think in our world freedom is something that needs to be fought for. But strictly speaking you don't fight for freedom, you fight against those who would attempt to have you give them your freedom. The best way to do this is by demonstrating that you will not do so. This takes many forms, and as long as you are true to yourself and maintaining your boundaries then you are affirming the freedom that is natural to all life.
Agreed! Thank you for the clarification. We fight by living our lives everyday, as you said, true to ourselves and not ascribing to an authority outside of one's self. This is the most powerful form of protest. Nonviolent noncooperation will always prevail.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - 3-24-2022 - 04-12-2022
These types of conversations remind me of the first amendment and it's origins.
Britain used to be a part of the Catholic kingdom until protestants made themselves presbyterians/anglicans/episcopalians and told the Catholic church to go away, starting I think in the 1500s and finishing in the 1700s
The Americans that were aboard the Mayflower were separatists from these separatists.
The word "protestant" sounds like the attitude Americans have, and look at the modern Brexit that England recently went through which resulted in them exiting the modern European Union. English people have a will to voice their opinions.
It's rooted in a strong will to go one's own way, and a value of womens rights. An example of this is how the Church of England allows female priests and there is a queen of England, while the Roman Catholics they separated from will not allow female priests and there has never been a female pope.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - tadeus - 04-12-2022
(03-09-2022, 06:11 PM)Ming the Merciful Wrote: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price.
I don't know whether this is acceptable in the sense of Spiritual Awakening, except I am watching it in practice.
There are interesting actual channelings around this question:
https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2022/0302 Wrote:Q’uo:
This is a difficult topic for us to speak to in a clear sense because the attitudes of bellicosity, as they present themselves and manifest upon your planet, are quite unfamiliar to us. Bellicosity has been a, shall we say, hallmark of third density for many members of the Confederation. Yet the level of technology and violence and destruction capable through the manifestation of bellicosity on your planet and other planets within your solar system, in what you would call the past, are much greater than we have personally experienced.
and
https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2022/0309 Wrote:Q’uo:
We are Q'uo, and we are aware of the query, my brother. We would begin addressing this interesting and complicated situation by first offering somewhat of a disclaimer, in that the battle described by those of Ra in this passage is a unique dynamic that plays out within realms and upon levels that are beyond the full grasp of the third-density being. There is a certain cosmological context to what has been described as a battle of thought that cannot be applied to the veiled existence of the third-density entity in a, shall we say, one-to-one fashion. Thus, we offer a response to this query in the hopes that there is some extrapolation to be made for the third-density entity, but caution any who reads or hears these words that these are unique circumstances that a third-density entity is unlikely to experience.
We first address the notion that the Confederation as a whole, which includes entities of primarily the fourth, fifth, and sixth densities, realizes that, to allow the crusaders of the Orion empire to carry out their self-proclaimed duty or calling to bring what they view as order and meaning to the universe—but may be seen in a positive context as enslavement and an infringement upon free will—that for the Confederation to allow this dynamic to unfold would result in, from the viewpoint of the Law of One and of the One Creator, an imbalance and an infringement upon the energetic cycles of the Creator.
Thus, the Confederation of Planets in Service to the One Infinite Creator, tapping into a certain grasp of these dynamics thanks to the guidance of what you know as the Council of Saturn, is able to move and interact in certain ways that may seem, from a certain perspective, antithetical to the overall goal of service to others and service to the Creator by participating in what is described as a battle. This task is given to those of the fourth density, for the higher densities of fifth and sixth density have a broader view of this—we correct this instrument—of these mechanisms at play that allows them to see how the Creator's will may unfold in both the actions of the [positive] fourth-density entities and the actions of the Orion empire. Thus, these higher densities do not participate in such a battle, but do not discourage or refrain from allowing the fourth-density entities to take up their own arms of thought in order to protect and serve through the act of defense, as you have called it.
The primary difference between this thought-battle and what you may experience in third density known as war, and the concept of bellicosity, is an attitude available to those of fourth density that allows these entities to see the Creator within those whom they are defending against. And thus, the actions that they take are based primarily within the green ray of universal love—that love being manifested as protection against enslavement and the preservation of free will.
This attitude is an incredibly difficult attitude to manifest within the third density, for the veil [is intended to] prevent an entity, who may take up defensive attitudes, from recognizing the presence of the Creator in any situation. The mechanisms of survival and tribalism are primary aspects of the catalyst that you experience within the third density. And in a moment at which one's life is threatened or one's loved ones are threatened, the Creator and thoughts of the Creator are generally outside of the reach of an individual, who instead feels a swell of survival. And an act that, in the end, may be based upon love of another, in the moment is undertaken with an attitude of separation that may be manifested as anger, as fear, or as even thoughts of revenge and retribution.
In the third and fourth it is "normal" that you have to "fight" for your freedom and free will.
Later on it is "possible" to do this as a thought-battle ...
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Mettadohm - 04-13-2022
(04-12-2022, 12:23 PM)tadeus Wrote: In the third and fourth it is "normal" that you have to "fight" for your freedom and free will.
Later on it is "possible" to do this as a thought-battle ...
I was unaware of my freedom until I had surrendered it to some authority, in one way or another and then had to claim it back. Looking back on my life, and of what I know of human history (as flawed as that story is), I see that my (and humanity's) conceptual boundaries are defined by exploring their opposites. What is sustainable is defined through unsustainable behavior. My happiness/bliss/joy is known/quantified only through my experience of sadness/misery/suffering. In my daily life, I often find that I enjoy letting myself become borderline dehydrated or very hungry before drinking water or consuming food. It is when I am dying of thirst that water is most precious and that glorious feeling of being quenched does not occur when I stay continually hydrated throughout the day.
In the same way, at a larger fractal scale, humanity as whole must experience moments (sometimes extended moments) of oppression to fully know and appreciate our natural state of freedom. Of course we want to "fight" long and hard for it because, as anyone who plays chess knows, it's not very much fun to make one move and win the game. The best games are the ones where the notion of victory and defeat flip-flop until defeat is all but certain and still, somehow there is a miraculous rising from the ashes of said defeat to claim a final victory. And although that victory may explicitly seem to be over others (the illusion), it is always over one's own self, specifically over one's ideas of limitations placed on one's self.
Thanks to Tadeus and everyone else who contributed to this conversation and allowing me to contemplate more on freedom.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - tadeus - 04-13-2022
(04-13-2022, 11:35 AM)Mettadohm Wrote: In the same way, at a larger fractal scale, humanity as whole must experience moments (sometimes extended moments) of oppression to fully know and appreciate our natural state of freedom. Of course we want to "fight" long and hard for it because, as anyone who plays chess knows, it's not very much fun to make one move and win the game.
Thank you, that are interesting thoughts.
I think the word "fight" should be differentiated here better:
A "physical fight" is necessary only, when there is an enslavement and the suppression of free will with physical force.
When there is an unintentional slavery, as currently in the most cases, then it should be enough to be aware of it and simply not agree and participate with it. This does not need physical force, but needs acting in the right way of the free will without concessions.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - flofrog - 04-13-2022
Thank you Tadeus for the Q'uo quote about the concept of bellicosity and the the 3rd density veils and its difficulty.
It somehow reminds me of a quote I read many, many years ago and when the books of Conversation with God By Neal Donald Walsh were published.
There was a passage that so intrigued me then, long ago, and on which I thought for w while, when I read and read again that passage.
Walsh mentions this : he is told about the example of a young girl being thrown on a heap of hay and raped by supposedly two or three youngsters. And God mentions how it is probably hard for Neal to still see love int this example in what takes place. ( Not that this was like a recommendation to follow... ) I remember reading and re-reading the passage, imagining the scene and thinking perhaps on her part the young girl could feel, perhaps I did this myself in another life, or perhaps she feels somewheree somehow indeed there is a sparkle of love hidden deep there, and then thinking, would I think of that myself ?
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - tadeus - 04-14-2022
Here is an interesting Video that fits here:
Ignorance is the Exercise of our Last Freedom (à la Krishnamurti)
Min. 1:10 "Ignorance is a choice we make"
When ignorance is a choice I would say it is a choice for STS ?
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Loki - 04-14-2022
(04-14-2022, 12:44 PM)tadeus Wrote: Here is an interesting Video that fits here:
Ignorance is the Exercise of our Last Freedom (à la Krishnamurti)
Min. 1:10 "Ignorance is a choice we make"
I would say it is a choice for STS ?
Someone can be ignorant about something or someone can ignore something.
These are two very different concepts which should not be confused.
Someone can be ignorant and fight like hell for what he understands as freedom. And freedom looks different from each side of the fence. Free will entitles every creature to its own freedom including the one to kill others. Who are we to throw stones? Ra never does.
For me ignorance is not a choice we make it is an adversity we need to overcome because we are born in ignorance. The illusion is the cornerstone of ignorance because it delivers us into separation.
The journey on this Earth is intended to make us escape the ignorance/separation around us and in us.
More we learn to ignore our ego and other people ego more we lose our ignorance, because we can only ignore things we make peace with.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - tadeus - 04-15-2022
(04-14-2022, 03:04 PM)Loki Wrote: Someone can be ignorant about something or someone can ignore something.
These are two very different concepts which should not be confused.
Someone can be ignorant and fight like hell for what he understands as freedom. And freedom looks different from each side of the fence. Free will entitles every creature to its own freedom including the one to kill others. Who are we to throw stones? Ra never does.
For me ignorance is not a choice we make it is an adversity we need to overcome because we are born in ignorance. The illusion is the cornerstone of ignorance because it delivers us into separation.
The journey on this Earth is intended to make us escape the ignorance/separation around us and in us.
More we learn to ignore our ego and other people ego more we lose our ignorance, because we can only ignore things we make peace with.
You missed to explain the ignore something in opposition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorance Wrote:Definition of ignorance
: the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness
Definition of ignorant
1a : destitute of knowledge or education an ignorant society also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified parents ignorant of modern mathematics
1b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence ignorant errors
2 : unaware, uninformed
Definition of ignore
transitive verb
1 : to refuse to take notice of
2 : to reject (a bill of indictment) as ungrounded
You are correct that there is a difference.
The word ignorance is definitely ambiguous, in the dictionary it is connected to knowledge and intelligence onesided.
I think in the video the word is used as noun for the verb ignore.
The really difference is very subtle, because someone can ignore something because he has no knowledge about it - that is caused by the "sinkhole of indifference", or he has got the knowledge and is actively ignoring something by choice.
This process of "actively ignoring something by choice" can be caused itself by psychological mechanisms such as cognitive dissonance or the panopticon.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - jafar - 04-18-2022
Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price.
So, many thanks to the negative entities, in which main purpose in 'existence' is to enslave and control others against their own free will, we have a something to 'fight for'?
Or in short, thanks to negative entities we could have a 'fighting experience'?
Imagine a universe where there are no negative entities, even the entire conception of 'fighting' thus the word 'fight' will not even exist.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Aion - 04-19-2022
I'm gonna have to be honest here, I don't really see the "unity" that so many others seem to be seeing in this. I live in Canada so my perspective is maybe a bit different, but the whole movement appears to me to be far from "unifying". Rather it seems to run on yet another "us vs them" mentality. The country has become covered in "f*** Trudeau" slogans (and I am not fan of Trudeau, I don't vote Liberal) and similar ilk. They created so much noise in Ottawa that people were becoming sleep deprived, something which is used as a torture technique.
You cannot fight a war without collateral damage, it's just a matter of opinion what is "too much". Everyone who feels like they are on the right side will always feel like their actions are justified.
That being said, I do agree that more or less revolutionary thinking and action is necessary to create changes in society. I however don't tend to view these things through rose-coloured glasses and see both good and bad coming from this. Like most things, this movement is not black and white.
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - Aion - 04-19-2022
Also to add my thinking about freedom.
I don't think freedom is something we "have" or "don't have". Freedom is a concept which we associate with the feeling of flow. When you are flowing, you feel free.
That being said, I do think one can be imprisoned. Perhaps a bit of paradox.
We can contemplate, is there "true" freedom and "false" freedom? How do we know which is which?
RE: Freedom is not free. Freedom has to be fought for and at a price. - tadeus - 04-19-2022
Here is a nice video about the principles of Liberty and Freedom.
It is from this website: https://www.jonathangullible.com/
There you can find the video in addtional 53 languages.