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+---- Thread: Are you going to take the vaccine? (/showthread.php?tid=18793)
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - LeiwoUnion - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 08:06 AM)Patrick Wrote: That paper is a good reminder for the authorities.
Quote:...Many decisionmakers assume that the vaccinated can be excluded as a source of transmission. It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures.
Knowing that our current vaccines are not very good at preventing infection from variants, authorities should not ignore that.
Thankfully, the same data demonstrate protection against severe disease and death.
Here in Québec I often see the argument that nearly half of the people in hospitals, because of Covid, are fully vaccinated. But they forget that we are talking about half being from 85% of the population and the other half, unvaccinated, coming from just 15% of the population. If vaccination was not protective we would be seeing a ratio similar to the actual vaccination ratio of the population.
Are you saying that the vaccination prevents anomalous covid deaths and the need for catalyst of severe hospitalization? What we experience, we invited. I wonder how many of the hospitalized unvaccinated are the most confused of them all, ridden with the fear of the vaccine and related control measures, and the disease itself. Alas, there's no data of the amount of severely hospitalised self-reliant, responsible and non-fearing (/relatively balanced) unvaccinated (or vaccinated) individuals. In my mind, the vaccine and the dis-ease of covid are the same; some take it consciously, some unconsciously but always willingly invited. Those who wish to sleep can only be let sleep as comfortable as possible but only the Logos may gatekeep catalyst or karma. Let them have their catalyst, then comfort them in their possible suffering. You preach this yourself, Patrick, yet throw hails at data that doesn't take any of your own teachings into account. Your left hand seems to have little awareness of what your right hand is doing. I may sound harsh at times but I must trouble you for the seeming trouble you cause yourself (you know why I must continue). Try to detach yourself from both sides and contemplate. No Love, no Light; only the middle point of the pendulum, the void of balance. What do you see? This is my understanding.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 09:08 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: Are you saying that the vaccination prevents anomalous covid deaths and the need for catalyst of severe hospitalization? What we experience, we invited.
A very succinct way of continuing to beat this dead horse lol.
When one determines that this is a unique catalyst with a narrow universal meaning, that's all they will see. We both have been trying to make the same universal points on the broader dynamic implications, only to have them ignored and obfuscated by all the narrow band transient matters. It is the way of the Law of Confusion.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 09:08 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: Are you saying that the vaccination prevents anomalous covid deaths and the need for catalyst of severe hospitalization? What we experience, we invited.
I am pointing out that a sizable part of those whom are not in need of going through the experience of being hospitalized for Covid ended up taking the vaccine (the mechanical part of a metaphysical aspect).
(12-03-2021, 09:08 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: I wonder how many of the hospitalized unvaccinated are the most confused of them all, ridden with the fear of the vaccine and related control measures, and the disease itself.
The control measures are a serious issue. I thought that sadly most of the population was for it. But based on the dinner I hosted last weekend and all my guests being against control and in favor of acceptance. I am glad to see that the picture is not as bad as I had thought.
(12-03-2021, 09:08 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: Alas, there's no data of the amount of severely hospitalised self-reliant, responsible and non-fearing (/relatively balanced) unvaccinated (or vaccinated) individuals. In my mind, the vaccine and the dis-ease of covid are the same; some take it consciously, some unconsciously but always willingly invited.
Yes, I would say that metaphysically in the case of vaccination, what we observe is how the underlying metaphysical aspect looks like from our physical point of view. For example, when an entity has already decided they won't get very sick from Covid on the metaphysical level, what we observe in the physical is that person getting vaccinated.
Of course, this is not the only way this will manifest in the physical. For example, someone who already decided that they would not get vaccinated and also decided on the metaphysical level not to get sick, we will observe something else in the physical protecting them. Might be anything really. Even something as simple as being exposed to the virus and simply not getting sick from it.
(12-03-2021, 09:08 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: Those who wish to sleep can only be let sleep as comfortable as possible but only the Logos may gatekeep catalyst or karma. Let them have their catalyst, then comfort them in their possible suffering. You preach this yourself, Patrick, yet throw hails at data that doesn't take any of your own teachings into account. Your left hand seems to have little awareness of what your right hand is doing. I may sound harsh at times but I must trouble you for the seeming trouble you cause yourself (you know why I must continue). Try to detach yourself from both sides and contemplate. No Love, no Light; only the middle point of the pendulum, the void of balance. What do you see? This is my understanding.
I think you are assuming this about me. How else could it be really (no one knows how others are thinking).
But I can assure you that you are mistaken, I am always pondering the metaphysical aspects of everything the reaches my awareness, including scientific data. I think it would be unwise to ignore those tools. Data can inform us within the physical of what is going on on the metaphysical. Because really this is all connected. We can't ignore the metaphysical and we can't ignore the physical either. We can't ignore the Law of One and we can't ignore science.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 10:31 AM)zedro Wrote:(12-03-2021, 09:08 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: Are you saying that the vaccination prevents anomalous covid deaths and the need for catalyst of severe hospitalization? What we experience, we invited.
A very succinct way of continuing to beat this dead horse lol.
When one determines that this is a unique catalyst with a narrow universal meaning, that's all they will see. We both have been trying to make the same universal points on the broader dynamic implications, only to have them ignored and obfuscated by all the narrow band transient matters. It is the way of the Law of Confusion.
I think that what is the most confusing is this assumption that those Covid vaccines are a bad thing. This in my opinion is what is the most obfuscating aspect.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 11:03 AM)Patrick Wrote:(12-03-2021, 10:31 AM)zedro Wrote:(12-03-2021, 09:08 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: Are you saying that the vaccination prevents anomalous covid deaths and the need for catalyst of severe hospitalization? What we experience, we invited.
A very succinct way of continuing to beat this dead horse lol.
When one determines that this is a unique catalyst with a narrow universal meaning, that's all they will see. We both have been trying to make the same universal points on the broader dynamic implications, only to have them ignored and obfuscated by all the narrow band transient matters. It is the way of the Law of Confusion.
I think that what is the most confusing is this assumption that those Covid vaccines are a bad thing. This in my opinion is what is the most obfuscating aspect.
The fact that you still believe this is my (and Leiwos) message or point simply means you are not listening or comprehending. You literally just contradicted the crux of my own statement in your response.
There is simply no point here, we aren't even talking about the same context or framework. We are trying to impart a broader viewpoint based on the teachings of the LOO, and you keep returning to the material world narrative. So I will leave you there.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 11:25 AM)zedro Wrote: The fact that you still believe this is my (and Leiwos) message or point simply means you are not listening or comprehending. You literally just contradicted the crux of my own statement in your response.
There is simply no point here, we aren't even talking about the same context or framework. We are trying to impart a broader viewpoint based on the teachings of the LOO, and you keep returning to the material world narrative. So I will leave you there.
I think there is a point. I am trying really hard to see what you are trying to show. Maybe if you would expand on your vision of that said framework and how it relates to this current subject?
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - SeekerSimon - 12-03-2021
At the present space/time the condition of well-meant and unintentional slavery are so numerous that it beggars our ability to enumerate them.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 11:38 AM)Patrick Wrote:(12-03-2021, 11:25 AM)zedro Wrote: The fact that you still believe this is my (and Leiwos) message or point simply means you are not listening or comprehending. You literally just contradicted the crux of my own statement in your response.
There is simply no point here, we aren't even talking about the same context or framework. We are trying to impart a broader viewpoint based on the teachings of the LOO, and you keep returning to the material world narrative. So I will leave you there.
I think there is a point. I am trying really hard to see what you are trying to show. Maybe if you would expand on your vision of that said framework and how it relates to this current subject?
Just re-read what I've been posting for the last month, it's all there.
And here is the start of the error:
Quote:I think that what is the most confusing is this assumption that those Covid vaccines are a bad thing.
We are not saying that. Substitute "ARE" with "CAN BE", and then understand that all consequences are personal catalysts and all consequences are possible. I have literally said a dozen times here, both the virus and the vaccines (and all surrounding social/relationship offshoots) are personal catalysts that will be what they need to be for the individual's learning. There is no one size fits all solution or outcome. So data only confirms one's illusionary biases, personal discernment at a higher level of spiritual understanding is what's needed. You can go back maybe 40 pages and my message has not changed.
I gave my personal account of what it is for me (and some others who share in the resolve) in my unique situation and guidance, that which some here assume is due to being directly manipulated by negative sources supplanting our internal guidance, or that being indirectly manipulated by negative sources via counter mainstream messaging/narrative. This is the source of judgement based on a predisposed belief of what is and what isn't in absolute terms. There are no absolutes.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Diana - 12-03-2021
I hope this doesn't offend anyone. But this guy is really funny (to me—I like some sarcasm). He is riffing on big pharma/vaccines. There is no option for rumble.com browser, so here are the links:
Drug Companies Don’t Fund The Media! Stop Asking!
and:
What the FDA is Like…
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 12:21 PM)zedro Wrote: ...We are not saying that. Substitute "ARE" with "CAN BE", and then understand that all consequences are personal catalysts and all consequences are possible. I have literally said a dozen times here, both the virus and the vaccines (and all surrounding social/relationship offshoots) are personal catalysts that will be what they need to be for the individual's learning. There is no one size fits all solution or outcome. So data only confirms one's illusionary biases, personal discernment at a higher level of spiritual understanding is what's needed. You can go back maybe 40 pages and my message has not changed.
I gave my personal account of what it is for me (and some others who share in the resolve) in my unique situation and guidance, that which some here assume is due to being directly manipulated by negative sources supplanting our internal guidance, or that being indirectly manipulated by negative sources via counter mainstream messaging/narrative. This is the source of judgement based on a predisposed belief of what is and what isn't in absolute terms. There are no absolutes.
All right, thank you for pointing this out. I do agree that in veiled 3d there are no absolutes and that everything is subjective.
I think the only part where I still do not understand your point of view is this part: "data only confirms one's illusionary biases". Everything being subjective does not mean it is worthless to try and share our observations to see if there are any commonalities in each others experiences. I think this exercise is useful.
For me, putting my hand in fire is hurtful. This data might be useful to others and might make it so that all of us do not have to experience/test this ourselves.
The way I currently understand what "scientific data" mean is that it is what is most commonly observed/measured, not just in the physical. Afterall, the metaphysical is also a system of illusion with its own natural laws that can be observed and measured in action. So the difference in between the physical and metaphysical is not the illusionary aspect, but only the form experiences take in each environment.
So then the form that a confirmation bias takes is not in the "data" per se, but in the act of accepting the data that fits the bias and rejecting the data that does not fit. Rejecting the data that does not fit might not make it irrelevant to your experience. You might very well get hurt while putting your hand in fire even if you rejected my observation that it did that to me. I think this is due to a form of collective contract we all agree to before incarnating on this planet. But yes this is just a generalisation, there are probably some people who are able to put their hands in fire without getting hurt.
But maybe what you mean is that nearly everyone is only using "data" to confirm their own biases, even scientists? Thus making most of our "data" nearly worthless in your opinion?
That may very well be so, but just as we here share our "data" on the Ra material to see if we find commonalities that might be useful in furthering our own understanding, so it is with scientific data. It's a way of understanding ourselves better. We are the environment we experience after all.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-03-2021
Putting your hand in a fire is personal experience. The outcome is actually somewhat subjective, and has different contextual levels. You can look at it from a purely materialist view as a chain of circumstances leading to pain and injury. Or associate a higher level context involving fear and learning, and deeper meanings. But what happens when that basic convention is broken? Because it can be (miracle) or will be (transmutation).
Data is not absolute, it is selected, everything is, because you cannot select/measure everything at once, you are choosing what to focus on and introduce bias into that seeking. Then there is interpretation, which in turn re-informs the selection process, creating a feedback loop, or law of attraction.
If you want a mundane 3d example, you cannot know what true "infection rates" are, because the data is self reported, I.e. only if I choose to get tested, and if the testing is accurate, and if the reporting is accurate....then I match that incomplete data set to an interpretation of what exactly is the cause of an illness....is it specifically only from a pathogen we are biased to look for, or is it from a litany of pre-existing health problems? Now I do not want to debate the above, because it is inherently impossible to properly correlate the relationships, because it is impossible to do in 3d, hence the metaphysical position that everything is personalized catalyst in the end. If you believe data=truth=reality, then there's not much more we can discuss. This is the schism, this grasping onto the illusions of the "material" world.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 12-03-2021
It's not that I disagree with the basis of what you are saying. But I think I react differently to those same realisations. You seem to be concluding that it is not worthwhile to exchange data because we have been mostly doing it wrong on this planet so far. As if there was no way that such a thing as unbiased data could exist. I have a more optimistic outlook. I even think that some of our current data is provided in a raw enough and open enough format to actually be useful to the experience of a great many people.
But then, let's say we just agree to disagree on that. What is there left for us to communicate? These words are data, we are data. If none of it has value to others because of subjectivity, then what are we doing here? Not just on the subject of this thread, but why have a forum or the Internet?
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-03-2021
I revealed it before, context and not data is what's important. What you observe people saying vs acting. Analyse narratives and constructs. Data is just another part of the illusion that serves higher dimensional relationships, it doesn't define them (there is a directionally to it, a hierarchy) . People and how they behave are not an illusion, only their motivations are obscured, to both themselves and to others. It's the difference between asking WHAT and WHY. Huge difference.
If you go back and find Leiwo's writings on how new chemical compounds are initially observed vs how they they get galvanized into the collective observation, or how quantum principles work, you will begin to understand the fallibility of so called data and the scientific method as it is used now.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 12-03-2021
Ok well thank you for taking the time to share your point of view.
Then let's disregard any notion of data or science.
If we come full circle now and apply what you are saying to vaccination. Why would it matter in the least what the vaccine is intended to do by its creators? If people are taking it with the intent that it will be a good thing for them. Taking it within the context that it is a positive manifestation for themselves. It will do just that. We could achieve the same goal with sugar pills as well I suppose.
So I'm left wondering why this thread is so full of posts saying it will hurt us. Won't that just end up actually helping it do just that?
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - MonadicSpectrum - 12-03-2021
Personally, I agree with Patrick about the importance of collecting and analyzing scientific data. From the spiritual perspective, I view it as providing insight into the conscious and subconscious beliefs that exist in the collective. I see scientific data as a 'snapshot' in time on what everyone involved in the data collectively believes at that time. However, I don't believe this data holds truth forever or is representative of the unique beliefs of each individual. I think we can change the laws of physics, for example, if we all collectively had enough conscious awareness of our subconscious beliefs and chose to do so. Much of the physical world is a result of our subconscious beliefs that live beyond our control and awareness, but we can gain more awareness of them by observing the physical world and accepting and understanding these existing beliefs. Fundamentally, everything is us, and if something is being manifested anywhere, it is a result of our collective beliefs, and it is helpful to learn more about these beliefs if we ever want to change them. One cannot change something that one does not know or accept, and science is one method of knowing ourselves.
Quote:74.11... Ra: I am Ra. The heart of the discipline of the personality is threefold. One, know yourself. Two, accept yourself. Three, become the Creator.
The third step is that step which, when accomplished, renders one the most humble servant of all, transparent in personality and completely able to know and accept other-selves. In relation to the pursuit of the magical working the continuing discipline of the personality involves the adept in knowing itself, accepting itself, and thus clearing the path towards the great indigo gateway to the Creator. To become the Creator is to become all that there is. There is then no personality in the sense with which the adept begins its learn/teaching. As the consciousness of the indigo ray becomes more crystalline, more work may be done; more may be expressed from intelligent infinity.
All that said, I think it is important to understand the possibility of deception and one being unaware of one's complete set of beliefs. For example, I may bake someone an apple pie, put poison in the pie, and give it to them to eat. The person may not have awareness that poison is in the pie nor that they believe poison will kill their physical vehicle, but it will still kill them nonetheless.
Regarding how this manifests with vaccines, I believe that the service-to-self faction are metaphysically manipulating vaccines and masks as a method of control. They view everyone who acquiesces to their attempt at control as their 'slave' or 'cattle' to be used for their service-to-self purposes. They use fear to get people to do what they want them to do as well as use them as a tool to expand their control across the globe. People may not be aware that there exists collective beliefs about being a slave when you take the vaccine nor that one is choosing not to believe in one's capability to build natural immunity when they acquiesce to the control. But they are being controlled nonetheless from the perspective of the service-to-self faction. It is difficult to polarize positively or negatively if one is subconsciously choosing to be controlled by the service-to-self faction leading to most people in this controlled reality not being ready for harvest.
All that said, I do believe the vaccines have some short-term positive effects when it comes to avoiding hospitals and death from the virus although they aren't capable of preventing spread of the virus. Whether these short term positive effects are worth giving up one's sovereignty is up to each individual to decide. Personally, I think science is on the side of natural immunity through a healthy diet, regular exercise, and meditation to minimize anxiety and depression. I also think it is helpful to understand that sometimes viruses are helpful for people who are ready to transition from their current incarnation and that death is not something to be feared to the point of giving up one's freedom.
Quote:76.20 Questioner: What was the form of disease, and why did this exist at beginning third density?
Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, that which you speak of as disease is a functional portion of the body complex which offers the body complex the opportunity to cease viability. This is a desirable body complex function. The second portion of the answer has to do with second-density other-selves of a microscopic, as you would call it, size which have in some forms long existed and perform their service by aiding the physical body complex in its function of ceasing viability at the appropriate space/time.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - LeiwoUnion - 12-03-2021
(12-03-2021, 07:02 PM)Patrick Wrote: Why would it matter in the least what the vaccine is intended to do by its creators? If people are taking it with the intent that it will be a good thing for them.
I guess this is the case, if one believes the vaccine to contain metaphysical creational basis or purely physical one. I, for example, think there is 'dark intent' behind it, so that the thought form of the vaccine is corrupted to such degree that the generic confused intent cannot hope to affect it; black magic some call it. This is also why it's such a red herring that the focus is in 'intent'. While intent via will and thought certainly can have a potent effect, it is finnicky in nature and cannot gather much power behind it unless there is a large and powerful group that can 'grasp the needle and point the compass in one direction'. Imagine Ra, literally a godlike entity in 3D terms, who could barely control the muscles of one human body and only if the rituals and appurtenances enhancing the contact were 'spot on'. Global scale white magic is not achievable instantly just because the 'intent' of some barely 4th chakra activated entities will it so. At that level it would probably take years to manifest and that, if there were no opposition whatsoever.
Quote:Taking it within the context that it is a positive manifestation for themselves. It will do just that. We could achieve the same goal with sugar pills as well I suppose.
Then we get here, the true gist of things. The wisdom in the matter, the green-blue Love/Light Light/Love, higher in vibratory state than pure green. The entity seeking balance does not need this. It is as simple as that. The loving and wise entity does not try to achieve balance via imbalance here and other imbalance there, because balance is not an achieved state, it is a returned state. I personally cannot see (whoever created the vaccine and for whatever purpose) any reason to go towards taking it, it is AT BEST an unnecessary detour and at worst who knows what trouble. Ask yourself this; what kind of distilled experience comes from the vaccine experience, except perhaps 'it is not wise to go on a detour' which brings you back to the start. Whatever experience it is, it is anchored in this low vibratory matter which is in no way forward to people like us (I'd LIKE to think; I could be wrong). This is also just the ideal theory, the reality application of this vaccine experience can be seen all over the place, and it is not pretty. Any compasses pointing certain direction somewhere? If one reaches stable spiritual and meditation practice, peace and joy in life, what use would be indulging into a state of alcoholism then? Difficulty?? You are correct that acceptance, forgiveness and seeing others as Creator and such are important lessons to face every day on every topic, issue and concept, but the lesson does not end there, not for people gathering around the Ra material anyway. Remember, ignorance exists and it cannot be dispelled by intent alone (I dare you to say that perhaps 'the others' are the ones wallowing in ignorance). Again, please explain: how can artificial proteins and nucleic acid be relevant to our evolution? As a contrast: could injecting water into your veins be useful for one's evolution or is it an unnecessary complexification?
This all disregarding the fact that these vaccines are not even working as they were marketed in the beginning. These middle management people cannot even control their own stories or science. Is the lesson the acceptance of massive 'sike!' or perhaps 'whoopsie'?
Quote:So I'm left wondering why this thread is so full of posts saying it will hurt us. Won't that just end up actually helping it do just that?
In my understanding the thought form must be pretty much set at this point, it will do what it was set to do but there lies the great debate. Answers should arrive at some point and they will be what they will be. This thread says what it says because it is a vaccine thread and there are sources which say negative words (I was almost tempted to write sound vibratory complexes to enhance the irony) about it and the most active members here wish to raise awareness and their version of understanding this way. Also, I would say that from the third injection onward it would definitely begin hurting the arms, so they are definitely in their thinking technically correct, the best kind of correct.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 12-03-2021
I wanted to really put myself in your shoes as much as I could. I think I have reached a threshold now. For a while there the whole image flipped and I think I really glimpsed things from the perspective you were trying to share. It flipped right back after that, but that's ok. The point wasn't to convince/change each others anyway.
Yet I am changed from the experience. I am really glad you all took the time to share this.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - LeiwoUnion - 12-04-2021
(12-03-2021, 10:33 PM)Patrick Wrote: I wanted to really put myself in your shoes as much as I could. I think I have reached a threshold now. For a while there the whole image flipped and I think I really glimpsed things from the perspective you were trying to share. It flipped right back after that, but that's ok. The point wasn't to convince/change each others anyway.
Yet I am changed from the experience. I am really glad you all took the time to share this.
Sometimes there are things that just need to be said. What happens after depends on the wills and desires of those taking part in the communication, there can be nothing else. I think this is a proper time to say 'all is well'. Love is a powerful force that can drive even 3D mbs complexes to great lengths of whatever. You are Loved, Patrick, it is the only reason there is this discussion. See you in the next raised point.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-04-2021
(12-03-2021, 07:02 PM)Patrick Wrote: If we come full circle now and apply what you are saying to vaccination. Why would it matter in the least what the vaccine is intended to do by its creators? If people are taking it with the intent that it will be a good thing for them. Taking it within the context that it is a positive manifestation for themselves. It will do just that. We could achieve the same goal with sugar pills as well I suppose.
So I'm left wondering why this thread is so full of posts saying it will hurt us. Won't that just end up actually helping it do just that?
I never claimed your ego could make/wish it anything it wanted, I'm saying that there may be an important choice to be made by the individual. It definitely CAN hurt someone, not WILL, again, huge difference. Not all bullets hit their targets, not all bullets kill. Some will miss, others will maim. Some will offer enlightenment, some may draw compassion. These are hidden lessons for some, or obvious pitfalls for others. I know what it is for me. And it may be completely different for you. There are no absolutes, and you may not have the control of intention you think you do. Or maybe you will. But claiming it to be something absolute and will be OK for everyone is a disservice and may possibly have karmic ramifications. You need to understand the totality of possibilities, this is called wisdom.
You can't seem to find the middle ground Patrick, you are always oscillating between the extremes, always missing the central point.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 12-04-2021
(12-04-2021, 11:45 AM)zedro Wrote: ...You can't seem to find the middle ground Patrick, you are always oscillating between the extremes, always missing the central point.
It is true. There are many aspects for which I have no middle. I think I would have to first let go of my absolute optimism before I could settle in any kind of middle position on those aspects. But I do not wish to change that, I'm ok with it.
There is indeed an important choice to be made by each individuals. That is pretty much my understanding of what 3d is all about.
I think I am collecting viewpoints and then pondering how those can be integrated into who I am, thus creating movement and changing me, but not directly towards these viewpoints, something else changes that is not very obvious even to me. That's ok though, I don't feel the need to get it. I'm ok with just observing the movement. It might be somewhat frustrating for those observing/thinking that I'm always missing the central point, but at least it doesn't feel this way for me. I don't feel that I'm missing anything. I don't know where that's leading me, but the process feels right. Mostly I just end up drunk on Love and within a state of thanksgiving. Another extreme yes.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Margan - 12-06-2021
"Drunk on love and within a state of thanksgiving " - lovely, Patrick
A few thoughts on the vaccine
You know I am more „against“ than in favor of it
But I have been thinking, especially about those who are seemingly forced into taking it at this point in time and space – it could even be a karmic thing. You know like those souls have been forcing others in previous lives.
As said before, I think we are all in this here to get liberated and karma relieved.
And should it be indeed so that there is no „way out“ of this and you have to get the jab – well just get it, pray for it to serve the highest and best good and if you want, (mentally) tell those who force you „that is your karma to deal with in the future“
A Vedanta teacher who has said many intelligent things (some of them I resonate not so much, but this was good imo) – he said „well if you indeed took the jab or have to take it – instead of worrying so much about any physical consequences or harm it might have – use the time consciously and always remind yourself THAT YOU ARE NOT THIS BODY and thus use it to transcend the worldly illusions“
which I think it boils down to
I see the danger in some of us, who are extremely health conscious (not excluding myself here) – the body becomes some kind of big attachment and we only want to give it the best foods and supplements. Let us not forget that we don't own this body, we have to give it up one day, no matter how healthy we might have lived.
We are only temporary guests here on this planet and also – the majority „beats“ the minority.
Which I see in my country also – most of people believe the story about pandemic and the vaccine as the only way out.
So who are we to expect that this narrative will change any time soon?
„the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few“ wasn't that a Star Trek quote
or „if you cant beat them, join them“
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Diana - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 05:27 AM)Margan Wrote: You know I am more „against“ than in favor of it
But I have been thinking, especially about those who are seemingly forced into taking it at this point in time and space – it could even be a karmic thing. You know like those souls have been forcing others in previous lives.
As said before, I think we are all in this here to get liberated and karma relieved.
And should it be indeed so that there is no „way out“ of this and you have to get the jab – well just get it, pray for it to serve the highest and best good and if you want, (mentally) tell those who force you „that is your karma to deal with in the future“
I agree that if an individual is forced into being vaccinated against their own wishes, then the best thing to do is optimize the situation by not buying into the fear and continuing to focus on health. That doesn't even mean you have to flip and now believe the vaccination was good, only that your attitude is always to remain in health no matter what is thrown at you (pollution, toxic media, unclean water, and so on).
(12-06-2021, 05:27 AM)Margan Wrote: A Vedanta teacher who has said many intelligent things (some of them I resonate not so much, but this was good imo) – he said „well if you indeed took the jab or have to take it – instead of worrying so much about any physical consequences or harm it might have – use the time consciously and always remind yourself THAT YOU ARE NOT THIS BODY and thus use it to transcend the worldly illusions“
which I think it boils down to
I see the danger in some of us, who are extremely health conscious (not excluding myself here) – the body becomes some kind of big attachment and we only want to give it the best foods and supplements. Let us not forget that we don't own this body, we have to give it up one day, no matter how healthy we might have lived.
I do not agree with this teacher, and all who say "you are not your body." I see what they mean, but I think they go too far in dismissing part of what a human is here in this density (mind-body-spirit complex). The body may be temporary in the larger scheme of things, but we are caretakers of that gift (a physical vehicle in which to traverse a lifetime in this density).
I think this idea is a block for some who polarize STO. STS individuals are the ones who attach to the body I think. One can be STO and honor the body for what it is while here, and care for it with compassion and wisdom just as one cares for one's home or one's children (who are also not owned and must be let go at some point).
(12-06-2021, 05:27 AM)Margan Wrote: We are only temporary guests here on this planet and also – the majority „beats“ the minority.
This may be true in the sense of survival of a species, but personally I don't agree with it. I feel the individual is just as important as the many. What an individual adds to the world is unique in every case. I don't want to obtuse about this idea, so I will add that it is more devastating in scale to see a thousand people die at once (by a bomb for instance) than one person, but that thousand-person group is still a group of individuals.
Being a guest here, from my perspective, you ("you" in the general sense meaning anyone) respect the place you are visiting. Not infringing upon free will, in my mind, of the culture you are visiting does not mean you have to be a slave to that culture or allow that culture to harm you. There is a responsibility to self as well as others. The way I see it is to balance the two with respect for both.
(12-06-2021, 05:27 AM)Margan Wrote: Which I see in my country also – most of people believe the story about pandemic and the vaccine as the only way out.
So who are we to expect that this narrative will change any time soon?
„the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few“ wasn't that a Star Trek quote
or „if you cant beat them, join them“
I don't think the narratives will change. They may fade away as many have done before, which I imagine to be the best-case scenario.
Personally I would never join something because I couldn't beat it. I am not out to fight either, but when it comes to my body, which I am caretaker of, I will defend my right to choose. I do not agree with the EU of these vaccines. In addition, I have never taken a flu shot or any other medical procedure I don't agree with. I reserve the right to change my mind at any time. And because I have brought this up, I still see no convincing evidence that I am harming anyone else by not complying.
I realize that I am likely flaming the fires here, and I am speaking generally, not specifically to call your comments out, Margan
. I must be authentic. I respect everyone's choices and perspectives and free will. I am not out to convince anyone of anything; but if if I am a poster on these forums, I am not going to pretend to be other than what I am—a unique member of this community interacting with other unique individuals with unique perspectives, who are drawn here because of a group of individuals magnetized into a harmonic SMC imparted to us the LOO—Ra.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-06-2021
(12-06-2021, 05:27 AM)Margan Wrote: I see the danger in some of us, who are extremely health conscious (not excluding myself here) – the body becomes some kind of big attachment and we only want to give it the best foods and supplements. Let us not forget that we don't own this body, we have to give it up one day, no matter how healthy we might have lived.
We are only temporary guests here on this planet and also – the majority „beats“ the minority.
Do people forget the purpose of being here? We are not guests of the planet, we ARE the planet, the planet is a vessel to serve incarnations and experience. There's a weird disconnect people make between the planet, the animals and the people incarnate which creates a weird form of spiritual bypassing, like as if we are passively here on a family vacation? A planet without 2d/3d/4d inhabitants is not fully serving the creation. How am I supposed to serve without a properly functioning body incarnate (according to my pre-incarnate requirements) ? If my destiny is to use my body interface energy systems to heal people and this planet, how do I accomplish that task if I insert substances into my body that may destroy those functions? I take care of my body because it's becoming a finely tuned instrument for divine purposes, and it is still subject to limitations of the 3d veil (I.e. may be damaged beyond servicing). Now some may argue that intent can heal/protect from all harm, well don't test that theory on the ledge of a building or with a friendly game of Russian roulette (I have also been tested on this, was not pretty). We still need to navigate the pitfalls of the illusionary game, because this is the interface that souls remain stuck in if they can't graduate to the next density.
Quote:„the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few“ wasn't that a Star Trek quote
or „if you cant beat them, join them“
This is STS type doctrine/deception IMO, this mentality always leads to genocide or control of others because it has a built in justification. So some will claim that there are the 'correct' justifications, we just need to figure it out. We'll we've been told time and time again by positive sources that there are no 'purely correct' justifications to infringing on free will, hence why acceptance is the key.
Pure polarized STO would understand that 'the many' need to serve 'the individual', because that individual is also 'the many' (other selves), so sacrificing/controlling the individual is tantamount to controlling the whole. This false wisdom of "the greater good by force", or distorted 5th ray blocking 3rd ray, obscuring pure 4th ray.
What do you think happens to the traumatized souls that were unwillingly sacrificed for the greater good? Is it just up to them to accept that they were martyrs by someone else's will? It's nice to offload the burden on someone else, and convince them that they are not the victim of others, but the victim of their own lack of understanding, and so not a victim whatsoever? (and yes I do understand the illusions of victim narratives at the higher level). And just why is the burden need to be put on the minority, just for convenience? Because 'majority rules' is the true path of the STO SMC? You get to join us, just sign here to state you agree with us...
I have always found the 'greater good' argument, even as a child, was a fundamental problem with our society, and this is a massive source of 3rd ray blockage/distortions.
Accept your own individual fears, and do not project them onto others to force actions of them, because you cannot possibly fully understand what is exactly going on. That is hubris to believe otherwise. This is why acceptance is key, because you simply cannot know what is right for someone else. The level of consequence can vary, there is risk and reward (because you can sometimes get it right), but the price of playing with someone else's health DIRECTLY THRU FORCE is very serious karmically.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-06-2021
Just to add Re: the greater good, there are tangible reasons/scenarios where one sacrifices themselves for the 'greater good', i.e. Spock saving the ship (and dying for their sins....then resurrecting?....oh wait, a Christian message you don't say? Lol), but no one forced him (they tried to stop him). If one wants to believe getting this medical treatment is such a path, then that's fine (it would be odd to consider it a sacrifice if you believe in it tho). But to believe that humanity is dependent on it and all must participate to save the ship from the flood? That is not born from acceptance, but fear that the ignorant individual can harm the ascending group.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - omcasey - 12-06-2021
The human virome is not something most people are apt to be very aware of. - trillions of viruses help to not only compose us but keep us alive. If we go to the heart of this, it can be seen that what the past two years have been about is not a virus but the relationship we are choosing to go into with viruses. Some are choosing conflict/kill, some are focused into something more friendly/benign. As a proponent of the latter, it is within my view to see that if as a collective we continue to choose a relationship with viruses that is adversarial, we ( as the human species ) are going to die. So, here, I will stand aside Diana, and say there is not an ounce of me which will ever join in with this.
It is not a small matter we are at the crux of. It is a turning point.
Noone save ourself can make or miss it.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - the - 12-07-2021
I guess Patrick will be happy with this news. I hope others will also find a relief, and make their 3D LIFE GAME more enjoyable. in the end, no matter pro or against c19 vaccine, it's not a good thing to stay in fear and anger emotion for a long time. https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=18366&pid=307670#pid307670
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - zedro - 12-07-2021
(12-06-2021, 08:18 PM)omcasey Wrote: The human virome is not something most people are apt to be very aware of. - trillions of viruses help to not only compose us but keep us alive. If we go to the heart of this, it can be seen that what the past two years have been about is not a virus but the relationship we are choosing to go into with viruses. Some are choosing conflict/kill, some are focused into something more friendly/benign. As a proponent of the latter, it is within my view to see that if as a collective we continue to choose a relationship with viruses that is adversarial, we ( as the human species ) are going to die. So, here, I will stand aside Diana, and say there is not an ounce of me which will ever join in with this.
It is not a small matter we are at the crux of. It is a turning point.
Noone save ourself can make or miss it.
This is an interesting context to put viruses in, and is very transferable to other matters, and essentially comes back to acceptance.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Diana - 12-07-2021
(12-06-2021, 08:18 PM)omcasey Wrote: The human virome is not something most people are apt to be very aware of. - trillions of viruses help to not only compose us but keep us alive. If we go to the heart of this, it can be seen that what the past two years have been about is not a virus but the relationship we are choosing to go into with viruses. Some are choosing conflict/kill, some are focused into something more friendly/benign. As a proponent of the latter, it is within my view to see that if as a collective we continue to choose a relationship with viruses that is adversarial, we ( as the human species ) are going to die. So, here, I will stand aside Diana, and say there is not an ounce of me which will ever join in with this.
It is not a small matter we are at the crux of. It is a turning point.
Noone save ourself can make or miss it.
You bring up an excellent point about the relationship between humans and other life forms, in this case, viruses.
"Humancentricity" is, to me, one of the major problems in the world today. Many talk about the separation between peoples, but people are not the only life on this planet. And as you point out, our own bodies host microorganisms which help us and are part of our physiology. The human virome and microbiome are vital to functioning human health. So if a person has fear and even hatred toward microorganisms one is also fearing and hating a part of their own body. Separating "bad" viruses from "good" viruses does not take into consideration that they all operate in the same way and are not intending harm. Ra stated that they offer catalyst which may be utilized or not (and catalyst is not just "bad" but everything we experience here).
Regardless of the drama around Covid and the vaccines, it is worth considering how much separation is engrained in one's thinking. How much harmony and acceptance is experienced with all life on this planet? By this I do not mean not to take care of one's health when there is disease or illness. What I mean is that there can be an underlying mindset of "us vs. them" or keeping humanity segregated from nature. Insecticides are a good example. Here in Arizona people are so afraid of "bugs" they regularly spray their yards. It is nonsensical to me. First of all, they spray for scorpions but scorpions can't be killed by the insecticides and only get sick. Their pets and other wildlife also get sick from it, and they themselves are continually being affected by the insecticides. It's a mess. Many pets are also poisoned from the poisons put out to kill mice and rats. Why not just try to live with nature? There are also options such as moving away from the desert or taking measures to seal up their house.
Just as STS influences may be endeavoring to keep the public disempowered and controlled, so too does it keep people distracted from things that might really inform empowerment with dramas that instill fear (Covid, hyped news) or fascination (celebrities, and other meaningless entertainment). The best way I know to override this control and manipulation is to spend time in nature. Of course meditation and other things are good as well. But the separation in the modern world from the environment and the ecosystem is detrimental to achieving any sort of harmony with this existence.
One could argue then that connection to Intelligent Infinity is what really matters, so why bother with this ephemeral existence? But this ephemeral existence is part of the whole. By not respecting all life here and imagining that one is separate from things like viruses or insects or scorpions, how then does one ever advance to a level of acceptance with all? It's not just about people.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - omcasey - 12-07-2021
Quote:Diana wrote:
Separating "bad" viruses from "good" viruses does not take into consideration that they all operate in the same way and are not intending harm. Ra stated that they offer catalyst which may be utilized or not (and catalyst is not just "bad" but everything we experience here).
Regardless of the drama around Covid and the vaccines, it is worth considering how much separation is engrained in one's thinking. How much harmony and acceptance is experienced with all life on this planet? By this I do not mean not to take care of one's health when there is disease or illness. What I mean is that there can be an underlying mindset of "us vs. them" or keeping humanity segregated from nature.
If a true Naturopath, the view is that there are no diseases "as such", but rather blockages, imbalances.. And, yes, I, too, would suggest to correct/address the imbalance, not set out to destroy a perceived culprit. The culprit is always ourselves, we create the imbalance, we are the ones who must restore it. If we are creating no imbalance, no opportunity, no "opportunistic" situations present ( for the most part. catalyst of course will in some way always be a part of life experience ). - but when we do not create a habit out of creating blockages/imbalance, catalyst is far more simple to work through. On the other hand, if as individuals and a collective we continue pointing the finger away from ourselves, the illusion will be strengthened, perpetuated, and potentially reach a catastrophic point of self annihilation.
Now it must be said that it is not only ourselves who must correct/address imbalance, the planet also does.
Correcting imbalance within ourselves, helps prevent being shaken off before we are ready.
Cleanse within, our own mind, energy, body systems and organs.
This is the work that must be done.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Diana - 12-08-2021
(12-06-2021, 08:18 PM)omcasey Wrote: If a true Naturopath, the view is that there are no diseases "as such", but rather blockages, imbalances.
Yes, this is true. Every naturopath I have seen, including individuals who sometimes spent many years as practicing allopathic doctors and switched to naturopathy, view all conditions of ill-health this way. They focus on wellness and how to restore balance. This includes Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine.