(02-09-2021, 07:15 PM)Glow Wrote: COVID could spell the end of animal testing as drug makers turn to human organs on microchips

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/business/2020/12/05/could-covid-spell-the-end-of-animal-testing.html

“ The virulence and highly contagious nature of COVID-19 is demanding a new model of research that bypasses animals, instead using human-biology-based testing. A growing number of scientists suggest that accelerated COVID-19 research is exposing animal modelling for what many have long claimed it to be: a scientific anachronism.”

(02-09-2021, 07:03 PM)Diana Wrote: I would like to add one point to this conversation that will likely be unpopular. Vaccines, including COVID vaccine (as far as I have read) are tested on animals.

(02-08-2021, 07:22 AM)Agua Wrote: Since there are many interesting links you guys posted, here is another one.
A very interesting „talk“ about the subject I came across:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0ZnNPPH6N4

(02-08-2021, 12:41 PM)Diana Wrote: Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and this is a discussion board, so that's why we are here. The whole COVID situation is very divisive. Many people seem to think "the other side" of the vaccination issue is deluded. This reminds me of politics here in the US, where Republicans think Democrats are idiots/wrong and vice versa. One might say I am being cavalier in that analogy, but recall that governments send hundreds of thousands of people to war to maim and kill other people (not to mention the wildlife and environment in the wake of it).

I personally don't like the inference in this thread that in order to be STO one must take the vaccine. This kind of thinking reminds me of the Christian Jesus, who died for others' sins. If I were to believe that, I would argue that Jesus had no right to do that, to take away catalyst from others and even more, take away their responsibility and accountability.

Service to others is not so simple as everything you do is for others. This leads to martyrdom, and as Ra pointed out, this is not a state that is in balance. It seems to me that extremity either way on this issue might be examined in the light of balance and free will. I will repost Ra's words on a contagion:

Quote:34.7 ▶ Questioner: Do what we call contagious diseases play any part in this process with respect to the unmanifested self?

Ra: I am Ra. These so-called contagious diseases are those entities of second density which offer an opportunity for this type of catalyst. If this catalyst is unneeded, then these second-density creatures, as you would call them, do not have an effect. In each of these generalizations you may please note that there are anomalies so that we cannot speak to every circumstance but only to the general run or way of things as you experience them.

Ra Wrote:54.18 Questioner: Which entities incarnate at this time on this planet would be of that category, manufacturing all of their catalyst?

Ra: I am Ra. We find your query indeterminate but can respond that the number of those which have mastered outer catalyst completely is quite small.

Most of those harvestable at this space/time nexus have partial control over the outer illusion and are using the outer catalyst to work upon some bias which is not yet in balance.

(02-09-2021, 07:57 PM)zedro Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 07:03 PM)Diana Wrote: I would like to add one point to this conversation that will likely be unpopular. Vaccines, including COVID vaccine (as far as I have read) are tested on animals.

The mRNA vaccines testing (prior to Covid vaccines) were tested on animals, and frequently there was a 100% death rate on reinfection. This is because mRNA vaccines create a strong inflammatory immune response (type 1 microphage) but the natural anti-inflammatory response (type 2 microphages) is suppressed due to the nature of the process, this results in a hyper inflammatory immune response that kills or damages the patient, even from a non-target virus (basically it destroys natural immune function and makes you more susceptible to pathogens). This actually has historically happened with some standard vaccines that were not tested to specific ethnic and age groups, which had disastrous results to those specific groups.

Animal testing was somehow bypassed from normal safety testing protocols for the Phizer mRNA vaccine. At least there was no animal testing data submitted (there's always a chance some testing was internally done and the results suppressed, but given the history of animal testing results they most likely decided to skip that step). Of course you can justify not doing such testing, this is why science is not absolute, but merely a practice where the acceptability of conclusions is from consensus of institutional groups.

All the above can be researched, although some may choose to call it conspiracy theories, it is actually part of the historical record, you just need to find the direct sources. Unfortunately the pharma industry has a wide financial reach, and can afford to influence 3rd party reporting sources.

(02-09-2021, 08:22 PM)Louisabell Wrote: Not everything is a slippery slope to martyrdom. It's only an act of martyrdom if you truly believe that the vaccine has a significant chance to kill or maim you.

(02-09-2021, 08:22 PM)Louisabell Wrote: I see this COVID situation as offering much learn/teaching for humanity on the global and individual scale... I mean it's allowing us to have this discussion, isn't it?

(02-09-2021, 08:22 PM)Louisabell Wrote: I do believe that getting the COVID vaccine in order to reduce potentially spreading the disease to more vulnerable people is a STO act. Choosing not to take the vaccine doesn't mean you're not a STO person in general, but in that specific choice, I don't see how it's STO.

(02-09-2021, 08:59 PM)Diana Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 08:22 PM)Louisabell Wrote: Not everything is a slippery slope to martyrdom. It's only an act of martyrdom if you truly believe that the vaccine has a significant chance to kill or maim you.

Not sure I agree with that. I think martyrdom is doing something for other(s) with no consideration for self in the equation. This is separation, as the self is an other, or there is self and others (separation). My opinion only, of course.

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 08:22 PM)Louisabell Wrote: I do believe that getting the COVID vaccine in order to reduce potentially spreading the disease to more vulnerable people is a STO act. Choosing not to take the vaccine doesn't mean you're not a STO person in general, but in that specific choice, I don't see how it's STO.

I don't really think it is that simple. How the material seems to define the key toward negative polarization is control of catalyst, while the key toward positive polarization is acceptance of catalyst.

Ra Wrote:82.3 Questioner: Jim has a personal question which is not to be published. You— He asks, “It seems that my balancing work has shifted from more peripheral concerns such as patience/impatience, to learning to open myself in unconditional love, to accepting my self as whole and perfect, and then to accepting my self as the Creator. If this is a normal progression of focus for balancing, wouldn’t it be more efficient once this is discovered for a person to work on the acceptance of self as Creator rather than work peripherally on the secondary and tertiary results of not accepting the self?”

Ra: I am Ra. The term efficiency has misleading connotations. In the context of doing work in the disciplines of the personality, in order to be of more full efficiency in the central acceptance of the self, it is first quite necessary to know the distortions of the self which the entity is accepting. Each thought and action needs must then be scrutinized for the precise foundation of the distortions of any reactions. This process shall lead to the more central task of acceptance. However, the architrave must be in place before the structure is builded.

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Where I stand in my beliefs, to not take the vaccine is a way to empower faith and personal growth in both myself and others. For years now I have seen synchronicities and non-randomness within the catalysts that I face, easily seeing purpose and opportunity in how and when they come to manifest. Then, to want to take the vaccine would be walking backwards in these realizations and it is definitely not what I want to inspire to others. That we need to fear catalyst and control it.

Ra Wrote:49.6 I am Ra ... Each experience will be sequentially understood by the growing and seeking mind/body/spirit complex in terms of survival, then in terms of personal identity, then in terms of social relations, then in terms of universal love, then in terms of how the experience may beget free communication, then in terms of how the experience may be linked to universal energies, and finally in terms of the sacramental nature of each experience.

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Now I am not saying that everyone has to make this choice for the same reasons that I do, everyone's biases and limits of perception will determine how they have distilled the polarity behind their choice. That's why I said it is important to follow one's own intuition in accomplishing one's role, rather than to let oneself be manipulated by the chaos of other people's thoughts and emotions.

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I don't really think it is that simple. How the material seems to define the key toward negative polarization is control of catalyst, while the key toward positive polarization is acceptance of catalyst.

(02-10-2021, 12:34 AM)Spaced Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I don't really think it is that simple. How the material seems to define the key toward negative polarization is control of catalyst, while the key toward positive polarization is acceptance of catalyst.

When Ra said "To a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body" is this not what you describe as controlling catalyst? Is your opinion that we should just accept that others are starving and that that is their catalyst to deal with?

(02-10-2021, 12:17 AM)Louisabell Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 08:22 PM)Louisabell Wrote: I do believe that getting the COVID vaccine in order to reduce potentially spreading the disease to more vulnerable people is a STO act. Choosing not to take the vaccine doesn't mean you're not a STO person in general, but in that specific choice, I don't see how it's STO.

I don't really think it is that simple. How the material seems to define the key toward negative polarization is control of catalyst, while the key toward positive polarization is acceptance of catalyst.

Well, I don't see that acceptance of catalyst is so easily deduced as just letting a pandemic run its course without taking any precautions for yourself or others because that's accepting. That strikes to me of a very surface level kind of acceptance. In order to accept catalyst, one must know what they are accepting, otherwise we run into the territory of simply trying to "overcome" or "ignore" catalyst, which can cause other imbalances. So where is the acceptance that many people have died from this pandemic? Where is the acceptance that one could more readily spread the disease to a vulnerable person if not taking precautions? If one is willing to believe/say that the service they're doing in not taking precautions is more worthwhile than potentially saving a life from COVID by taking precautions, then one would have to make the case, not hold firm to a simplistic view of acceptance, in my view.

Ra Wrote:82.3 Questioner: Jim has a personal question which is not to be published. You— He asks, “It seems that my balancing work has shifted from more peripheral concerns such as patience/impatience, to learning to open myself in unconditional love, to accepting my self as whole and perfect, and then to accepting my self as the Creator. If this is a normal progression of focus for balancing, wouldn’t it be more efficient once this is discovered for a person to work on the acceptance of self as Creator rather than work peripherally on the secondary and tertiary results of not accepting the self?”

Ra: I am Ra. The term efficiency has misleading connotations. In the context of doing work in the disciplines of the personality, in order to be of more full efficiency in the central acceptance of the self, it is first quite necessary to know the distortions of the self which the entity is accepting. Each thought and action needs must then be scrutinized for the precise foundation of the distortions of any reactions. This process shall lead to the more central task of acceptance. However, the architrave must be in place before the structure is builded.

Ra Wrote:14.14 Questioner: Would there be any value to the people of this planet now, at this time, to complete this machine?

Ra: I am Ra. The harvest is now. There is not at this time any reason to include efforts along these distortions towards longevity, but rather to encourage distortions toward seeking the heart of self, for this which resides clearly in the violet-ray energy field will determine the harvesting of each mind/body/spirit complex.

(02-10-2021, 12:17 AM)Louisabell Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Where I stand in my beliefs, to not take the vaccine is a way to empower faith and personal growth in both myself and others. For years now I have seen synchronicities and non-randomness within the catalysts that I face, easily seeing purpose and opportunity in how and when they come to manifest. Then, to want to take the vaccine would be walking backwards in these realizations and it is definitely not what I want to inspire to others. That we need to fear catalyst and control it.

Yes, I believe in the power of faith and the Creator's ability to realize what we are faithful in. Our Logos has created a vivid and very realistic experience, where we are encouraged to turn to the use of our vocal chords for communication and our opposable thumbs to express inspirational energies. I love this world, its challenges and its victories, and the beings here who are very convinced of its materialism. In my assessment (based on the research I have done which I feel is my STO duty to perform), this vaccine is safe and effective. For me to forgo such a solution would be not following my faith and empowerment. It would be me exerting a bias to live in a world different to the one I am in now; I would be operating from a bias that healing should occur miraculously, on my own terms and in my own timeframe, instead of the realized solution that the Creator has presented right in front of me. Afterall, I just don't see there being any "lesser" or "higher" realities as everything can be seen to have a sacramental nature. As the saying goes "we are not material beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a material experience".

Ra Wrote:49.6 I am Ra ... Each experience will be sequentially understood by the growing and seeking mind/body/spirit complex in terms of survival, then in terms of personal identity, then in terms of social relations, then in terms of universal love, then in terms of how the experience may beget free communication, then in terms of how the experience may be linked to universal energies, and finally in terms of the sacramental nature of each experience.

(02-10-2021, 12:17 AM)Louisabell Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Now I am not saying that everyone has to make this choice for the same reasons that I do, everyone's biases and limits of perception will determine how they have distilled the polarity behind their choice. That's why I said it is important to follow one's own intuition in accomplishing one's role, rather than to let oneself be manipulated by the chaos of other people's thoughts and emotions.

What of the chaos of our own thoughts and emotions Minyatur? You can't read fear, anxiety or attempts to guilt or undermine into my statements, unless you are projecting those onto me. You can't assume that people are being "manipulated by the chaos of other people's thoughts and emotions" in coming to their opinions, if you're not projecting that onto their experience. So why read fear in the words of those willing to take a vaccine to prevent catching COVID, yet no fear into those who reject and are suspicious of the vaccine or 'big pharma' in general? I am genuinely interested in how you have come to make that assessment?

I have personally decided to make my choices based on scientific information. Infact, I can be skeptical of medical professionals as I realise they often don't have the time or energy to be up to date on the latest scientific research. When I have medical concerns, I will often do my own scientific research (from scientific journals, not media articles). I therefore feel well informed and have little emotionality to it in general.

And may I ask to those who will choose nature over medical intervention, if you caught nits, would you use nit shampoo?  

Ra Wrote:17.30 Questioner: Well, if an entity wants to learn ways of it, wants to be of service to others rather than service to self while he is in this third density, are there best ways of being of service to others, or is any way just as good as any other way?

Ra: I am Ra. The best way to be of service to others has been explicitly covered in previous material. We will iterate briefly.

The best way of service to others is the constant attempt to seek to share the love of the Creator as it is known to the inner self. This involves self knowledge and the ability to open the self to the other-self without hesitation. This involves, shall we say, radiating that which is the essence or the heart of the mind/body/spirit complex.

Speaking to the intention of your question, the best way for each seeker in third density to be of service to others is unique to that mind/body/spirit complex. This means that the mind/body/spirit complex must then seek within itself the intelligence of its own discernment as to the way it may best serve other-selves. This will be different for each. There is no best. There is no generalization. Nothing is known.

(02-10-2021, 12:34 AM)Spaced Wrote: When Ra said "To a mind/body/spirit complex which is starving, the appropriate response is the feeding of the body" is this not what you describe as controlling catalyst? Is your opinion that we should just accept that others are starving and that that is their catalyst to deal with?

(02-10-2021, 12:17 AM)Louisabell Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 09:49 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Now I am not saying that everyone has to make this choice for the same reasons that I do, everyone's biases and limits of perception will determine how they have distilled the polarity behind their choice. That's why I said it is important to follow one's own intuition in accomplishing one's role, rather than to let oneself be manipulated by the chaos of other people's thoughts and emotions.

What of the chaos of our own thoughts and emotions Minyatur? You can't read fear, anxiety or attempts to guilt or undermine into my statements, unless you are projecting those onto me.

(02-10-2021, 12:17 AM)Louisabell Wrote: And may I ask to those who will choose nature over medical intervention, if you caught nits, would you use nit shampoo?  

(02-10-2021, 11:10 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Part of the argument is failing to see the need of my mind/body/spirit, or most people's mind/body/spirit complexes, to be fed a vaccine they do not need. So your quote does not really make any sense within this context, and this does not deny that it can make sense for the smaller percentage of the population that is more at risk to take precautions either if they do not believe in their ability to deal with this virus, nor that I can take precautions with such people.

(02-10-2021, 01:14 PM)Spaced Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 11:10 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Part of the argument is failing to see the need of my mind/body/spirit, or most people's mind/body/spirit complexes, to be fed a vaccine they do not need. So your quote does not really make any sense within this context, and this does not deny that it can make sense for the smaller percentage of the population that is more at risk to take precautions either if they do not believe in their ability to deal with this virus, nor that I can take precautions with such people.

Except that's bot how viruses work. If only some people get the vaccine and others don't then the virus will still spread and every new infection gives it a chance to mutate and then the at risk population will be at risk of catching the new strain.

(02-10-2021, 01:14 PM)Spaced Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 11:10 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Part of the argument is failing to see the need of my mind/body/spirit, or most people's mind/body/spirit complexes, to be fed a vaccine they do not need. So your quote does not really make any sense within this context, and this does not deny that it can make sense for the smaller percentage of the population that is more at risk to take precautions either if they do not believe in their ability to deal with this virus, nor that I can take precautions with such people.

Except that's bot how viruses work. If only some people get the vaccine and others don't then the virus will still spread and every new infection gives it a chance to mutate and then the at risk population will be at risk of catching the new strain.

This virus has killed 2.3 million people globally, and many who have recovered are still experiencing symptoms months later that may actually never go away.

Your idea that people are suffering ill effects because they don't believe in their ability to deal with the virus is lacking in compassion as well as being completely ungrounded in reality.

(02-10-2021, 02:09 PM)confusedseeker Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 01:14 PM)Spaced Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 11:10 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Part of the argument is failing to see the need of my mind/body/spirit, or most people's mind/body/spirit complexes, to be fed a vaccine they do not need. So your quote does not really make any sense within this context, and this does not deny that it can make sense for the smaller percentage of the population that is more at risk to take precautions either if they do not believe in their ability to deal with this virus, nor that I can take precautions with such people.

Except that's bot how viruses work. If only some people get the vaccine and others don't then the virus will still spread and every new infection gives it a chance to mutate and then the at risk population will be at risk of catching the new strain.

Are you saying that you support mandatory vaccinations for us?  If so, this goes against everything this site stands for.  I think it should be made clear.

(02-10-2021, 02:47 PM)Spaced Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 02:09 PM)confusedseeker Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 01:14 PM)Spaced Wrote:

(02-10-2021, 11:10 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Part of the argument is failing to see the need of my mind/body/spirit, or most people's mind/body/spirit complexes, to be fed a vaccine they do not need. So your quote does not really make any sense within this context, and this does not deny that it can make sense for the smaller percentage of the population that is more at risk to take precautions either if they do not believe in their ability to deal with this virus, nor that I can take precautions with such people.

Except that's bot how viruses work. If only some people get the vaccine and others don't then the virus will still spread and every new infection gives it a chance to mutate and then the at risk population will be at risk of catching the new strain.

Are you saying that you support mandatory vaccinations for us?  If so, this goes against everything this site stands for.  I think it should be made clear.

No, I still support people's right to choose, I just want people to make informed decisions and not selfish ones based around the fear of vaccines.

(02-11-2021, 01:09 AM)Spaced Wrote: On a metaphysical level see this as a global catalyst that is testing to see if we can work together on a global level to overcome an obstacle rather than retreating into self-centered concerns about individual rights.

(02-11-2021, 01:09 AM)Spaced Wrote: On a metaphysical level see this as a global catalyst that is testing to see if we can work together on a global level to overcome an obstacle rather than retreating into self-centered concerns about individual rights.

(02-11-2021, 02:07 AM)Spaced Wrote: I'm sick of this lock down and I know the fastest way to end it is for as many people as possible to get vaccinated.

(02-09-2021, 07:15 PM)confusedseeker Wrote:

(02-09-2021, 07:03 PM)Diana Wrote: I would like to add one point to this conversation that will likely be unpopular. Vaccines, including COVID vaccine (as far as I have read) are tested on animals.

I know most people care more about people than they do animals. I don't. I care about all life forms. I don't imagine STO means service only to humans. I do not think it is fair for humans to test their products on animals causing untold pain and suffering. They should test products on themselves and use computer models.

This is one reason why I don't support vaccines (or any pharmaceuticals that use these methods, though I am not judging anyone who does). The other is that I trust my immune system. I also trust in what Ra said about second-density entities offering catalyst, and that catalyst not causing harm if it's not needed (for anyone). 

That said, if there was a vaccine not tested on animals, I would look at that as a possibility if I thought it would actually help the world by taking it. I am not at this time convinced it would. 

Good point.  I'd also like to point out that 80-90% of Covid hospitalizations are in people who are Vitamin D deficient, so you might as well supplement that along with Vit C and Zinc.  If you feel symptoms, look into Ivermectin.  Our immune systems are amazing.