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+---- Thread: Are you going to take the vaccine? (/showthread.php?tid=18793)
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - LeiwoUnion - 07-27-2021
(07-26-2021, 10:20 PM)Patrick Wrote: Here is a thought experiment that I would like to ponder with you guys.
Let's say the international community were to come up with a way to fully recognize freedom of choice regarding Covid vaccination.
Something like you can either get a proof of vaccination or a proof that you understood and accepted any consequences of your personal choice to not get vaccinated. Then the QR Code is the same and gives all the same access for stuff like travel. No person checking that code can ever know if you got the vaccine or if you acknowledged responsibilities instead. The only difference is if you ever find yourself in hospital in need of a respirator and there are not enough for everyone, then you already accepted this as a possible risk and cannot really complain.
I wonder if such a type of solution would be acceptable or if the ethical issues would be just as unworkable?
It is unworkable, because it's more about politics and appearances than actual 'solutions' or 'compromises'. A true solution would not even have to be 'loaded' such as this is, it would be obvious and 'Loving' in its core function.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 02:57 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote:(07-26-2021, 10:20 PM)Patrick Wrote: Here is a thought experiment that I would like to ponder with you guys.
Let's say the international community were to come up with a way to fully recognize freedom of choice regarding Covid vaccination.
Something like you can either get a proof of vaccination or a proof that you understood and accepted any consequences of your personal choice to not get vaccinated. Then the QR Code is the same and gives all the same access for stuff like travel. No person checking that code can ever know if you got the vaccine or if you acknowledged responsibilities instead. The only difference is if you ever find yourself in hospital in need of a respirator and there are not enough for everyone, then you already accepted this as a possible risk and cannot really complain.
I wonder if such a type of solution would be acceptable or if the ethical issues would be just as unworkable?
It is unworkable, because it's more about politics and appearances than actual 'solutions' or 'compromises'. A true solution would not even have to be 'loaded' such as this is, it would be obvious and 'Loving' in its core function.
What would a true solution look like then? I am pondering how each "side" sees the other and trying to see what shape a solution would have. I know that a lot of people are starting to simply push for mandatory vaccination because of fear of the unvaccinated. And I also know that many do not even believe the virus exists.
So how do we bridge such a gap in perception? Since All Is Well, this bridge exists and all we need to do is perceive it so we can manifest it.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Ohr Ein Sof - 07-27-2021
(07-26-2021, 10:20 PM)Patrick Wrote: Here is a thought experiment that I would like to ponder with you guys.
Let's say the international community were to come up with a way to fully recognize freedom of choice regarding Covid vaccination.
Something like you can either get a proof of vaccination or a proof that you understood and accepted any consequences of your personal choice to not get vaccinated. Then the QR Code is the same and gives all the same access for stuff like travel. No person checking that code can ever know if you got the vaccine or if you acknowledged responsibilities instead. The only difference is if you ever find yourself in hospital in need of a respirator and there are not enough for everyone, then you already accepted this as a possible risk and cannot really complain.
I wonder if such a type of solution would be acceptable or if the ethical issues would be just as unworkable?
I like your wording as it poses a question rather than a demand to remain fixed on fear, rebellion and possibly paranoia. This opens opportunities for our imagination to explore such things instead of us erecting another wall of rejection.
I also understand exactly what your are saying within your question to explore this idea.
I had covid so I know what it feels like to be sick with it and I have a friend that also had covid who experienced slightly different symptoms.
Respirator or ventilators are the last ditch effort to perserve someone's life and well, as you may have realized during your investigation of the virus and the treatments available, etc...they were placing people on vents right away and most died from pneumonia or ARDS (probably caused by being placed on a vent). I know this because this is exactly what killed my mother (ARDS).
In medicine, the last thing you want to do is place a healthy lung or even a damaged lung on a ventilator. This is literally a last ditch effort to save someone's life and it is a toss of a coin as to whether they can survive the life saving measures of a ventilator and the medications to induce a coma. Or........
We can always try alternative methods such as certain medications coupled with vitamins and minerals that were used and worked with the healing of the body. I think this is what the anti-vaxx is saying exactly along with the theories about the government's involvement which in the USA they have zero right to be in our medical business at all. For that matter, the government should allow free choice to its people and by not doing so, they are pruning the free will of the people. If it weren't for the involvement of the government I would bet that the anti-vaxxers would approach this differently. Also, consider the fact that there is new evidence that this was a bio-weapon, ok? I am not advocating this theory but consider that it could be. What if it were? What if you believed it is a bio-weapon? Would you be suspicious to take the offered, virtually untested vaccination? This is where we are. Both sides posing excellent questions in order to reach a stalemate. Which I do not think can be reached because it is based on beliefs. One believes the government would not try to kill its people and the other saying they will attempt genocide to bring down population numbers. Didn't Q'uo say that it was a way to attempt to control population? Not that it matters anyway but it seems I read something like that.
Bottom line: Free choice is the only way, there is no other way. Sorry for the wall of text.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Ohr Ein Sof - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 08:45 AM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 02:57 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote:(07-26-2021, 10:20 PM)Patrick Wrote: Here is a thought experiment that I would like to ponder with you guys.
Let's say the international community were to come up with a way to fully recognize freedom of choice regarding Covid vaccination.
Something like you can either get a proof of vaccination or a proof that you understood and accepted any consequences of your personal choice to not get vaccinated. Then the QR Code is the same and gives all the same access for stuff like travel. No person checking that code can ever know if you got the vaccine or if you acknowledged responsibilities instead. The only difference is if you ever find yourself in hospital in need of a respirator and there are not enough for everyone, then you already accepted this as a possible risk and cannot really complain.
I wonder if such a type of solution would be acceptable or if the ethical issues would be just as unworkable?
It is unworkable, because it's more about politics and appearances than actual 'solutions' or 'compromises'. A true solution would not even have to be 'loaded' such as this is, it would be obvious and 'Loving' in its core function.
What would a true solution look like then? I am pondering how each "side" sees the other and trying to see what shape a solution would have. I know that a lot of people are starting to simply push for mandatory vaccination because of fear of the unvaccinated. And I also know that many do not even believe the virus exists.
So how do we bridge such a gap in perception? Since All Is Well, this bridge exists and all we need to do is perceive it so we can manifest it.
Well, it is up to you as you know Patrick. Like bridging the gap is up to me. We just accept the fact that we honor another's choice to be.
If all is mental and made of mind-stuff then all that needs to be done is to make the shift in your own perception. If you believe in your heart that I am you and you are me. According to our deepest understanding, I have already been vaccinated a million times and you are unvaccinated. If we are to go with the understanding there is no more to do, to think, to reason or to pose.
If we continue to speak about it then someone believes there is more to say and therefore there is a part of all of us that remains unsettled. I say, ok, allow it until it has finished its investigation into such matters. The only mind "to change" is yours/mine depending on the perspective.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Dtris - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 08:45 AM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 02:57 AM)LeiwoUnion Wrote:(07-26-2021, 10:20 PM)Patrick Wrote: Here is a thought experiment that I would like to ponder with you guys.
Let's say the international community were to come up with a way to fully recognize freedom of choice regarding Covid vaccination.
Something like you can either get a proof of vaccination or a proof that you understood and accepted any consequences of your personal choice to not get vaccinated. Then the QR Code is the same and gives all the same access for stuff like travel. No person checking that code can ever know if you got the vaccine or if you acknowledged responsibilities instead. The only difference is if you ever find yourself in hospital in need of a respirator and there are not enough for everyone, then you already accepted this as a possible risk and cannot really complain.
I wonder if such a type of solution would be acceptable or if the ethical issues would be just as unworkable?
It is unworkable, because it's more about politics and appearances than actual 'solutions' or 'compromises'. A true solution would not even have to be 'loaded' such as this is, it would be obvious and 'Loving' in its core function.
What would a true solution look like then? I am pondering how each "side" sees the other and trying to see what shape a solution would have. I know that a lot of people are starting to simply push for mandatory vaccination because of fear of the unvaccinated. And I also know that many do not even believe the virus exists.
So how do we bridge such a gap in perception? Since All Is Well, this bridge exists and all we need to do is perceive it so we can manifest it.
As long as their has been humans there has been plagues and illnesses. This is nothing new. What is new is that those who fear the virus, have a means of protecting themselves.
If the vaccine works, then those who take it have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated. Why then not just go about your life thinking those who refuse the vaccination are being stupid and if they get sick it is on them? Why are those who are vaccinated still fearful? A poll a saw recently said 24% of vaccinated are still wearing a mask despite there being no need if the vaccine works. In the US I have health insurance and my own money to pay for my medical bills, there is no financial incentive to mandate vaccines. The economic impact is from the lockdowns, not from the virus, even a more lethal virus would not cause a severe economic impact if there weren't shutdowns. So why mandate the vaccine?
The solution is to go about living your life and to allow other people to do the same. Allow the fearful to isolate, distance, or whatever, allow the ones wanting the vax to get it, and allow those who don't care to not care.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:02 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: ...Well, it is up to you as you know Patrick. Like bridging the gap is up to me. We just accept the fact that we honor another's choice to be...
Oh for myself and many others here there is simply no issue.
Personally, I don't mind any of it at all and I have zero fear of either the bio-weapon or vaccination.No what I am trying to bridge is all the differing perceptions of everyone in the world. What solution would be acceptable to everyone?
We cannot ask people to change, so those who fear the unvaccinated will continue and those who fear vaccination will continue. Yet a solution exists and we can manifest it. The best place for this to be born is within a spiritual community such as this one. We here have the proper framework to see this whole thing clearly and without fear and so we should be able to glimpse towards the All Is Well Always and see what it looks like. Then we can manifest it within this now and this here.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Nikki - 07-27-2021
(12-22-2020, 01:42 PM)throwawaynegative132 Wrote: Btw in a couple of years from now you won't be able to get a job without an cybernetic implant, including one in your brain that is capable of reading and writing. I am not even joking. I find it shocking that so few people know about this.
This ties in to my last post from the other post. Wasn't able to make a poll there so made one here.
I do not see or feel the love in this agenda. No love I gave none of my power.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:22 AM)Dtris Wrote: ...The solution is to go about living your life and to allow other people to do the same. Allow the fearful to isolate, distance, or whatever, allow the ones wanting the vax to get it, and allow those who don't care to not care.
What of those wishing to freely travel without vaccination?
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Nikki - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:29 AM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 09:22 AM)Dtris Wrote: ...The solution is to go about living your life and to allow other people to do the same. Allow the fearful to isolate, distance, or whatever, allow the ones wanting the vax to get it, and allow those who don't care to not care.
What of those wishing to freely travel without vaccination?
Hi Patrick: It is your choice. Do what is right for you within, if in doubt, check it out.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:35 AM)Nikki Wrote:(07-27-2021, 09:29 AM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 09:22 AM)Dtris Wrote: ...The solution is to go about living your life and to allow other people to do the same. Allow the fearful to isolate, distance, or whatever, allow the ones wanting the vax to get it, and allow those who don't care to not care.
What of those wishing to freely travel without vaccination?
Hi Patrick: It is your choice. Do what is right for you within, if in doubt, check it out.
My choice is to be an explosion of Love and acceptance.
I personally have full respect for whatever choices others make. I am fully vaccinated and it will be easy for me to travel.But this is not what I am trying to discuss with you guys. I want everyone to be happy and feel safe and be able to travel with or without vaccination. This is not utopic, a solution exists.
Please note that the solution will not ask anyone to change their perception or who they are...
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Nikki - 07-27-2021
(07-26-2021, 10:20 PM)Patrick Wrote: Here is a thought experiment that I would like to ponder with you guys.
Let's say the international community were to come up with a way to fully recognize freedom of choice regarding Covid vaccination.
Something like you can either get a proof of vaccination or a proof that you understood and accepted any consequences of your personal choice to not get vaccinated. Then the QR Code is the same and gives all the same access for stuff like travel. No person checking that code can ever know if you got the vaccine or if you acknowledged responsibilities instead. The only difference is if you ever find yourself in hospital in need of a respirator and there are not enough for everyone, then you already accepted this as a possible risk and cannot really complain.
I wonder if such a type of solution would be acceptable or if the ethical issues would be just as unworkable?
Trust is very important, the feeling of love and truth in all agendas just does not seem to exist right now and believe it is part of the evolution of the test we are now going through. When one says yes to another's thoughts (whether governments, groups, medical systems, person's, scientists, etc) and accept as y/our truth, so it is and y/our power to decide on a choice or change your mind is eliminated by y/our choice. This is not to say or indicate the other's choices are right or wrong, one can only decide for themselves. If one is given a choice of this way or that way, this still would be forcing y/our will onto other(s) by giving the illusion of choice - 2 choices is not much of a choice where the vaccinated are chosen first for medical attention - hierarchy. I want to live in a world where love rules not dictatorship from others or systems. All systems will fall as they all are based on a illusion not love.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 10:57 AM)Nikki Wrote: ...2 choices is not much of a choice where the vaccinated are chosen first for medical attention - hierarchy...
I did not mean to imply that the vaccinated would get prioritized at the emergency department.
I just meant to say that the unvaccinated acknowledges the risk that the healthcare system might not be able to take care of everyone at the same time. I am leaving the difficult ethical decisions of prioritizing the emergencies to the healthcare professionals at each hospitals. This they already do, Covid or not.
If I was afraid of vaccination but not afraid of the virus, I would be perfectly ok with acknowledging that risk, either because I would not believe there is a virus or that it would be an issue for me or simply because I am ok with taking responsibilities for what happens to me (taking responsibilities for my choices).
Otherwise, how do we honor the fear that some has of the unvaccinated and its consequences to others and also honor the choice of not getting vaccinated. I just thought that if those that fear the unvaccinated would see that the unvaccinated are not delusional and are indeed taking responsibility for that choice, that this would ease the experience for all and restore freedom of travelling.
(07-27-2021, 10:57 AM)Nikki Wrote: ...I want to live in a world where love rules not dictatorship from others or systems. All systems will fall as they all are based on a illusion not love.
I agree. I am trying to glimpse what the transition to that state looks like so that we can all help manifest it.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Nikki - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 11:37 AM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 10:57 AM)Nikki Wrote: ...2 choices is not much of a choice where the vaccinated are chosen first for medical attention - hierarchy...
I did not mean to imply that the vaccinated would get prioritized at the emergency department.
I just meant to say that the unvaccinated acknowledges the risk that the healthcare system might not be able to take care of everyone at the same time. I am leaving the difficult ethical decisions of prioritizing the emergencies to the healthcare professionals at each hospitals. This they already do, Covid or not.
If I was afraid of vaccination but not afraid of the virus, I would be perfectly ok with acknowledging that risk, either because I would not believe there is a virus or that it would be an issue for me or simply because I am ok with taking responsibilities for what happens to me (taking responsibilities for my choices).
Otherwise, how do we honor the fear that some has of the unvaccinated and its consequences to others and also honor the choice of not getting vaccinated. I just thought that if those that fear the unvaccinated would see that the unvaccinated are not delusional and are indeed taking responsibility for that choice, that this would ease the experience for all and restore freedom of travelling.
(07-27-2021, 10:57 AM)Nikki Wrote: ...I want to live in a world where love rules not dictatorship from others or systems. All systems will fall as they all are based on a illusion not love.
I agree. I am trying to glimpse what the transition to that state looks like so that we can all help manifest it.
These are all thoughts, fear is an illusion, fear of death, fear of an unseen enemy (virus), fear of another because they do not think like you do, act like you do, look like you, jabbed or not, outright discrimination. Exactly the agenda. Whatever you believe so it is, you will always be proven right. When people got the flu shot, did they worry about whether their neighbour did? No because you are suppose to be protected, if you do not feel that way, look within yourself.
We can all manifest this state of love with love. Love the virus, those that do not think like you do, love yourself with all the imperfections, we are the darkness and the light which shining brightly behind the darkness which is only love in bloom. All ancient texts teach you must change yourself before you will change the world. Look for love Patrick, you will find yourself. Change your thoughts, change your vibration. Be aware of what you believe and give you power to. Look for answers within yourself, your inner guidance, ask what is love? Search the web if you wish or books. Ask and you shall receive, knock and the door will be opened. When you meditate (if you do) focus on love and you will connect to the vibration of love and many others with like mind. Love is our greatest power, it is what will save the world. May this help you, your heart is pure and beautiful and your intentions are honourable.
Patrick, feel I know you from another site.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Diana - 07-27-2021
(07-26-2021, 10:20 PM)Patrick Wrote: Here is a thought experiment that I would like to ponder with you guys.
Let's say the international community were to come up with a way to fully recognize freedom of choice regarding Covid vaccination.
Something like you can either get a proof of vaccination or a proof that you understood and accepted any consequences of your personal choice to not get vaccinated. Then the QR Code is the same and gives all the same access for stuff like travel. No person checking that code can ever know if you got the vaccine or if you acknowledged responsibilities instead. The only difference is if you ever find yourself in hospital in need of a respirator and there are not enough for everyone, then you already accepted this as a possible risk and cannot really complain.
I wonder if such a type of solution would be acceptable or if the ethical issues would be just as unworkable?
I like the practical proactive approach here. I will try and contribute, and sort out how one might be practical and accepting in a situation that appears not to be practical or accepting. What I mean by that is the free will infringement that is global at this point.
First of all, acceptance is obviously a key feature. As many people here in this thread have been saying, it is the right of each individual to have sovereignty over their own bodies.
In your above scenario, let's assume that an individual who chose not to get vaccinated wound up with covid and ended up in the hospital in critical condition. Let's also assume that the individual actually does have covid which is the cause of the respiratory distress. Already, we have a loveless situation about to unfold, not to mention an unethical one. It is not ethical for a medical professional to deny care or to "do harm" by elimination or a false hierarchy, if one goes by the Hippocratic Oath. Logically, the person with the most need would get the ventilator first and so on. (This brings up something I have wondered since the beginning. Aside from the idea that people were actually harmed from being ventilated, why was procuring ventilators such an issue? It seems insane to me that in this whole world, we could not find a manufacturer to produce such and supply the need. It is also a mystery why triage centers weren't set up and volunteers solicited, and so on. I bring this up because there was no love in any of that.)
So now we come to the first layer of acceptance. The person who has been vaccinated is being faced with the idea that they will receive vital care over a person who has not been vaccinated (how does a STO-oriented person feel about this idea?). And the person who is not vaccinated will face the idea that they will not receive the vital care until after others who have complied with the mandates get it. The problem with these choices is that something external (government control; violation of the Hippocratic Oath, and so on) is involved in the situation and free will has been infringed upon. There is a myriad of issues imbedded here.
A deeper layer of acceptance must now be considered, as, the above layer appears untenable, or at the least, made of compromises one can't avoid. That acceptance is: the human world is what it is. Specifically at this time in human history (this is not 1918 and the Spanish flu, or polio in the first part of the 1900s—this world now is much more complicated, advanced in technology, plugged in, especially since computers became accessible to all), and according to Ra the time of transition to 4th density, there are issues that speak to the first distortion—free will, and then the next two distortions—love, and light. All three are important.
If we all chose to be here at this time, we must have accepted this time frame and the possibilities inherent in this nexus point. Rather than try to analyze whether or not one is operating from fear or love (because this idea is very much rooted in human language and paradigms), it might be better to dive as deep as possible into self. Why are you here? Dive below the surface ideas that first come to mind, and dig until you find the authentic self, the self which has been there since the beginning of this life. What things have always mattered? What part of self rose up at a time when one was controlled? For example, was there a revulsion as a child when told to dissect a frog in science class? Was there a resistance to being forced to go to school when you just wanted to dream and look at flowers and trees? Somewhere inside us all is an authentic self and I think this situation is driving us to reconnect with it if it has been lost due to the enormous human societal pressures to survive.
This is like an exaggerated version of "The Choice." To take the leap off the cliff not seeing where it leads following the prompts of the authentic self. But in order to follow the prompts of the authentic self, one must dig deep to expose it.
-----
In writing the above I don't think I was answering the question, but I just followed where my thoughts took me.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Dtris - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:29 AM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 09:22 AM)Dtris Wrote: ...The solution is to go about living your life and to allow other people to do the same. Allow the fearful to isolate, distance, or whatever, allow the ones wanting the vax to get it, and allow those who don't care to not care.
What of those wishing to freely travel without vaccination?
They should be able to go wherever they want. They are the ones that will get sick. If they spread to other unvaccinated individuals they chose not to get vaccinated.
You seem to think that some mutually agreeable solution exists, which is true. However as long as some seek to use force and coercion on others, then there will be no mutually agreeable solution. Since the force group will not accept another solution than the one they believe they should use force to impose, and those who would be subject to force will either give in, or resist.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 12:21 PM)Nikki Wrote: ... Look for love Patrick, you will find yourself. Change your thoughts, change your vibration. Be aware of what you believe and give you power to. Look for answers within yourself, your inner guidance, ask what is love? ...
Oh I myself am aware of all that. I choose Love always and it makes my life stupidly easy and beautiful. It boggles my mind how happy and abundant my experiences are.
But here I am putting myself in the shoes of others. The mainstream views those refusing vaccination as either crazy or uninformed. I know that is not the case, but that is why they will try to enforce vaccination. It's not governments or the Elites that will do that, it's the fearful people that will allow it to happen.
So how do we deal with this? How do we preemptively resolve this conundrum? How can those fears be alleviated within the current mainstream system? (Speaking of love and oneness will unfortunately not do the trick with the mainstream).
But if no one else cares about such things, I can certainly just sit back, relax, enjoy my personal life and let the maelstrom engulf the whole world. Yet I gave my whole incarnation to the One Infinite Creator to make of me the best instrument it can in order to help manifest its perfect will down here.
So my guess is that this impulse to help is not just a fabulation of my little-self's will. I am already helping the world by helping others focus on innerwork and on the now without too much regard to external happenings. I just wonder if this community could do more by finding a path of transition. One that does not ask people to change and yet begins in a state that is acceptable to everyone on Earth.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - omcasey - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 12:44 PM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 12:21 PM)Nikki Wrote: ... Look for love Patrick, you will find yourself. Change your thoughts, change your vibration. Be aware of what you believe and give you power to. Look for answers within yourself, your inner guidance, ask what is love? ...
Oh I myself am aware of all that. I choose Love always and it makes my life stupidly easy and beautiful. It boggles my mind how happy and abundant my experiences are.
But here I am putting myself in the shoes of others. The mainstream views those refusing vaccination as either crazy or uninformed. I know that is not the case, but that is why they will try to enforce vaccination. It's not governments or the Elites that will do that, it's the fearful people that will allow it to happen.
So how do we deal with this? . . .
The mainstream does not educate itself. mainstream media is used, which pushes its own drugs of choice. TURN IT OFF -- this would be step one.
The next step(s) would involve a deep dive into researching how to find actual, unbiased and peer reviewed information these days.
Which is not easy, so means each person is genuinely going to have to care.
As well as have the where-withal to drop everything they think they know right now.
We are very far away from this as a society at the moment.
Social and mainstream media is a drug of choice.
The withdrawal is forthcoming but will not be fun.
Casey
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
You guys are preaching to the choir here. I do not need to be convinced.
@Diana
I see now that I did not expose this idea in the most skillful way. Since many seems to think I was implying prioritizing the vaccinated. This is not the case, as I have explained here: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=18793&pid=302361#pid302361
(07-27-2021, 12:26 PM)Diana Wrote: ...It is also a mystery why triage centers weren't set up and volunteers solicited, and so on. I bring this up because there was no love in any of that...
This is bothersome yes. Volunteers were rarely solicited as far as I know. Here in Canada, the army was called in to help instead of calling for volunteers.
(07-27-2021, 12:26 PM)Diana Wrote: ...it might be better to dive as deep as possible into self. Why are you here?...
I am a brother of sorrow.
(07-27-2021, 12:26 PM)Diana Wrote: ...Dive below the surface ideas that first come to mind, and dig until you find the authentic self, the self which has been there since the beginning of this life. What things have always mattered? What part of self rose up at a time when one was controlled? For example, was there a revulsion as a child when told to dissect a frog in science class? Was there a resistance to being forced to go to school when you just wanted to dream and look at flowers and trees? Somewhere inside us all is an authentic self and I think this situation is driving us to reconnect with it if it has been lost due to the enormous human societal pressures to survive.
This is like an exaggerated version of "The Choice." To take the leap off the cliff not seeing where it leads following the prompts of the authentic self. But in order to follow the prompts of the authentic self, one must dig deep to expose it...
Yeah ok. Everything that comes within my sphere of influence is soft, relaxing, beautiful, enjoyable, loving, etc... I could not ask more of the reality I live in. Yet I am a brother of sorrow. But maybe there is nothing else to do in order to help, other than making an example of my life and being a passive radiator of love and light. Maybe you are all the Creator telling me this is just fine and dandy and that I can just love the world as it is and let it all burn down all around me if this is what the world wants to experience?
I have a nice romantic dinner to lookup to this evening. And I won't have any issues traveling to Cancun next winter. So why care about anything else right? All Is Well...
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Diana - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 01:23 PM)Patrick Wrote: @Diana
I see now that I did not expose this idea in the most skillful way. Since many seems to think I was implying prioritizing the vaccinated. This is not the case, as I have explained here: https://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=18793&pid=302361#pid302361
No, I didn't think that, and my post was in general to no one in particular. I can see that you, in spite of whatever decisions you have made personally, are neutral.
Your intention as I see it is just to forge a bridge as you put it. To possibly look at what is underneath the controversy. I like the idea. It works with what is.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 12:59 PM)omcasey Wrote: ...
The mainstream does not educate itself. mainstream media is used, which pushes its own drugs of choice. TURN IT OFF -- this would be step one.
The next step(s) would involve a deep dive into researching how to find actual, unbiased and peer reviewed information these days.
Which is not easy, so means each person is genuinely going to have to care.
As well as have the where-withal to drop everything they think they know right now.
We are very far away from this as a society at the moment.
Social and mainstream media is a drug of choice.
The withdrawal is forthcoming but will not be fun.
Casey
The question is being asked here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8eOQSRVh_s&t=26m16s
And here is an example of someone very well informed on the subject and yet the conclusion that is reached is not going to go well in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8eOQSRVh_s&t=23m6s
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Ohr Ein Sof - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 09:25 AM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 09:02 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: ...Well, it is up to you as you know Patrick. Like bridging the gap is up to me. We just accept the fact that we honor another's choice to be...
Oh for myself and many others here there is simply no issue.
No what I am trying to bridge is all the differing perceptions of everyone in the world. What solution would be acceptable to everyone?
We cannot ask people to change, so those who fear the unvaccinated will continue and those who fear vaccination will continue. Yet a solution exists and we can manifest it. The best place for this to be born is within a spiritual community such as this one. We here have the proper framework to see this whole thing clearly and without fear and so we should be able to glimpse towards the All Is Well Always and see what it looks like. Then we can manifest it within this now and this here.
The solution is to accept it all as it is. There is no solution because there is no problem. Manifesting peace is to simply place it in your mind that regardless of what any of us choose you are able to find strength in faith that all is as it should be and peace, acceptance, love and all things that are a biproduct of the very acceptance you seek will manifest. There are no both sides in reality for it to be acceptable or unacceptable if we stretch that to its furthest level which is that heart center and above of which we all seek to know and be. This is why I said it begins with you as you were the one who posed the question.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Ohr Ein Sof - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 01:51 PM)Patrick Wrote:Ugh that guy....this is a doctor? Or a dictator?(07-27-2021, 12:59 PM)omcasey Wrote: ...
The mainstream does not educate itself. mainstream media is used, which pushes its own drugs of choice. TURN IT OFF -- this would be step one.
The next step(s) would involve a deep dive into researching how to find actual, unbiased and peer reviewed information these days.
Which is not easy, so means each person is genuinely going to have to care.
As well as have the where-withal to drop everything they think they know right now.
We are very far away from this as a society at the moment.
Social and mainstream media is a drug of choice.
The withdrawal is forthcoming but will not be fun.
Casey
The question is being asked here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8eOQSRVh_s&t=26m16s
And here is an example of someone very well informed on the subject and yet the conclusion that is reached is not going to go well in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8eOQSRVh_s&t=23m6s
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Nikki - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 04:47 PM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote:(07-27-2021, 09:25 AM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 09:02 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: ...Well, it is up to you as you know Patrick. Like bridging the gap is up to me. We just accept the fact that we honor another's choice to be...
Oh for myself and many others here there is simply no issue.
No what I am trying to bridge is all the differing perceptions of everyone in the world. What solution would be acceptable to everyone?
We cannot ask people to change, so those who fear the unvaccinated will continue and those who fear vaccination will continue. Yet a solution exists and we can manifest it. The best place for this to be born is within a spiritual community such as this one. We here have the proper framework to see this whole thing clearly and without fear and so we should be able to glimpse towards the All Is Well Always and see what it looks like. Then we can manifest it within this now and this here.
The solution is to accept it all as it is. There is no solution because there is no problem. Manifesting peace is to simply place it in your mind that regardless of what any of us choose you are able to find strength in faith that all is as it should be and peace, acceptance, love and all things that are a biproduct of the very acceptance you seek will manifest. There are no both sides in reality for it to be acceptable or unacceptable if we stretch that to its furthest level which is that heart center and above of which we all seek to know and be. This is why I said it begins with you as you were the one who posed the question.
It is a very tangled web that we are living through right now. It is a time when many are giving away their power to systems or others because of the fear of death. There are many lessons to learn and all our brothers and sisters are learning what will benefit them in their growth as light beings. We do live in a dream state and nothing is real, it is a thought. A Master Teacher told us that in the dream state, nothing is real BUT the experience of it is real. The experience that many are going through or whatever they will go through does affect my essence because I do have compassion and understand it is not easy, real or not. We are one. Shared in love.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - omcasey - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 01:51 PM)Patrick Wrote:(07-27-2021, 12:59 PM)omcasey Wrote: ...
The mainstream does not educate itself. mainstream media is used, which pushes its own drugs of choice. TURN IT OFF -- this would be step one.
The next step(s) would involve a deep dive into researching how to find actual, unbiased and peer reviewed information these days.
Which is not easy, so means each person is genuinely going to have to care.
As well as have the where-withal to drop everything they think they know right now.
We are very far away from this as a society at the moment.
Social and mainstream media is a drug of choice.
The withdrawal is forthcoming but will not be fun.
Casey
The question is being asked here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8eOQSRVh_s&t=26m16s
And here is an example of someone very well informed on the subject and yet the conclusion that is reached is not going to go well in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8eOQSRVh_s&t=23m6s
Patrick -
Thank you, this is a very good example of what I mean by researching how to find actual, unbiased and peer reviewed information these days.
To get to information that is truly unbiased, let's say "independent" of processes in play you have to first look for those scientists, infectious disease experts, virologists, vaccine developers that have no financial ties to the process. No financial gain/incentives behind a particular point of view. Dr. Paul Offit does not fit this criteria. Nor can I find any peer reviewed white papers he has written, on this or any other subject. If you can find those and post them here I would be interested in reading them.It is not easy to find real data, I know, but we all must begin the process of learning how to look for it, and sharing where we find it.
Casey
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Diana - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 01:51 PM)Patrick Wrote: The question is being asked here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8eOQSRVh_s&t=26m16s
And here is an example of someone very well informed on the subject and yet the conclusion that is reached is not going to go well in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8eOQSRVh_s&t=23m6s
Maybe I am dense, but I did not hear the question really answered why unvaccinated people are a threat to vaccinated.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-27-2021
Exactly. I did not either. It's just an example of how the majority will convince themselves that true mandatory vaccination is required. I would have loved to preempt that, but it seems the world wishes to experience this catalyst.
So like Nikki and Ohr Ein Sof said, the solution is to accept all that is. I find this easy enough. I just wished I could have saved the trouble for humanity, but we cannot learn for others. If I were to exclude the fate of others from my thinking, I would believe I am living in paradise right here and now.
My wish is simply for ALL to live in paradise and in abundance of love as well. So I was thinking how would such a transition look like? But from what I am gathering, such a transition is not wanted.
Now I must simply let others experience what they wish and listen to cries for help if any ever comes. Otherwise, there is simply no help to provide since none is requested.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - omcasey - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 06:25 PM)Patrick Wrote: Exactly. I did not either. It's just an example of how the majority will convince themselves that true mandatory vaccination is required. I would have loved to preempt that, but it seems the world wishes to experience this catalyst.
So like Nikki and Ohr Ein Sof said, the solution is to accept all that is. I find this easy enough. I just wished I could have saved the trouble for humanity, but we cannot learn for others. If I were to exclude the fate of others from my thinking, I would believe I am living in paradise right here and now.
My wish is simply for ALL to live in paradise and in abundance of love as well. So I was thinking how would such a transition look like? But from what I am gathering, such a transition is not wanted.
Now I must simply let others experience what they wish and listen to cries for help if any ever comes. Otherwise, there is simply no help to provide since none is requested.
This is not what I see happening from my vantage.
What I see is the MEDIA attempting to push this picture out - but not it actually being the case of what is happening.
We each have a role to play in bringing this to light. Recognizing the difference between a picture being pushed - and an actuality.
Alerting people when you see/hear them repeating the picture is necessary. Like I am doing right here now. This is a media picture being pushed. It is not the actuality.
But you/me/we....are going to have to let go of that picture to get to the real truth. Which actually is right here all around us when we let go.
Even though ( attempting to be ) censored by the mainstream media outlets.
It is right here. And everyone does have access.
.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - confusedseeker - 07-27-2021
(07-27-2021, 06:57 PM)omcasey Wrote:(07-27-2021, 06:25 PM)Patrick Wrote: Exactly. I did not either. It's just an example of how the majority will convince themselves that true mandatory vaccination is required. I would have loved to preempt that, but it seems the world wishes to experience this catalyst.
So like Nikki and Ohr Ein Sof said, the solution is to accept all that is. I find this easy enough. I just wished I could have saved the trouble for humanity, but we cannot learn for others. If I were to exclude the fate of others from my thinking, I would believe I am living in paradise right here and now.
My wish is simply for ALL to live in paradise and in abundance of love as well. So I was thinking how would such a transition look like? But from what I am gathering, such a transition is not wanted.
Now I must simply let others experience what they wish and listen to cries for help if any ever comes. Otherwise, there is simply no help to provide since none is requested.
This is not what I see happening from my vantage.
What I see is the MEDIA attempting to push this picture out - but not it actually being the case of what is happening.
We each have a role to play in bringing this to light. Recognizing the difference between a picture being pushed - and an actuality.
.
I totally agree with this. Most people think it should be a personal choice. Very few people want to FORCE vaccinations, it's just not a good precedent. However, the media is now trying to place blame on the unvaxxed and blame them for bad policy decisions, and this is just a pure divide and conquer exercise that we are witnessing right now.
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - omcasey - 07-27-2021
.
I just want to throw this out here for those who maybe do not know yet.
Right now, and for the past months there are cases in the courts to revoke the emergency use authorization currently in use and being used to push vaccination. This is a part of why the media is doing everything possible to make it seem like you will lose rights if you do not go ahead with their agenda, ie: vaccination. When the emergency use authorization is revoked, and it is indeed being revoked *there is no more emergency, the power just does not want to be relinquished, hence having to be taken to court - noone will be able to even give the illusion of pushing imaginary mandates. The same moves are being made to remove the RT PCR test - likewise only approved through the emergency use authorization - ( it is not a diagnostic tool and has never been able to diagnose active infection ) - as a valid test for SARS Cov2. You can see this on the CDCs own website in preparation of the EUA removal. You can also see additional information there that may surprise you. If you are able to read between the lines of what this means. --> here is the direct link.
I am putting this here solely to help show what I mean by what I have said above.
The show of this past year is coming to a close. Thanks to all who stepped up and forward to make it so.
Most of the real data, is behind the scene(s) the masses give their attention over to.
Is it not always the way? ( it is ). As spiritual seekers we know this.
Casey
RE: Are you going to take the vaccine? - Patrick - 07-28-2021
I'm fine with any way this catalyst ends. Especially the it ending part.