(06-20-2021, 09:11 AM)Patrick Wrote: Alternative medicine is a term often used as opposed to evidence-based medicine.

It does not mean that it does not work, it just means that no one is able to find evidence that it works. That is mostly due to personal testimonials not counting as evidence.

(06-20-2021, 09:03 AM)Dtris Wrote: In the US where I am at most of your primary care physicians and internal medicine doctors are M.D. and D.O., Medical Doctor and Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. Osteo vs Allo Some are even just D.O. You may have been seen by Osteopathic doctors yourself and never even noticed.

(06-20-2021, 09:20 AM)Dtris Wrote: The magnet thing got me interested and I starting searching. The media and youtube are going in hard trying to "debunk" the magnet claims. Seems like they are going to have a tough go of it if this video is any indication.

Street Test of Magnet Vaccine

If you don't want to watch. The Liberty Broadcast buys a magnet at the store, then has random people stop and see if it sticks. They reported 5 out of 20 who volunteered the magnet stuck.

This is certainly odd and a real phenomena given the number of videos out there and this one in particular, since these are just people out for the evening. What this means of course is a different story, but the phenomena itself does appear to be valid.

(06-20-2021, 10:07 AM)Margan Wrote: That is why if you go to one of these practitioners, it takes at least one hour for a start, and they will ask you all sorts of weird questions to find out what works for your special case

(06-20-2021, 10:48 AM)Louisabell Wrote: Yeah, it's a weird phenomena alright. The evidence would be classified as testimonial at this stage, so relatively lower on the scientific evidence validity scale. In any case, I asked a physicist about this and they said that the magnetic strength of a substance is in proportion to its mass. Considering these are nanoparticles, their magnetic strength would have to be far stronger than any other known magnetic substance out there to be able to cause this phenomena. If such a substance existed then it would apparently solve the "fusion problem", thereby solving the nonrenewable energy issues we face. That means clean cheap energy for all! It's still a long shot though.

(06-20-2021, 09:11 AM)Patrick Wrote: Alternative medicine is a term often used as opposed to evidence-based medicine.

It does not mean that it does not work, it just means that no one is able to find evidence that it works. That is mostly due to personal testimonials not counting as evidence.

(06-20-2021, 05:29 AM)Margan Wrote: I have a question, re the fear-mongering issue.
I notice that the claim "this is fear-mongering" usually is stated by those who see the vaccine as a positive thing, and regards information that warns of possible side effects, etc.
Why is that so?
If you are completely sure of this vaccine and see it as beneficial, then information stating otherwise should not bother you at all, imo.
Could it be that maybe, deep down inside, you are not entirely convinced, and that the so-called "fearful disinformation" triggers doubts that you don't want to raise?
Just asking, I am really curious about this phenomenon.
Edit: along with the general dismissal of stuff being posted on social media. I have seen it personally - we do have virologists and immunology professors, sometimes employed at universities, people with medical expertise who have differing opinions about covid and the measures than the medical staff advising our government. They are not being heard, they do not get to discuss and share their point of view in talk shows or in the news.
What happens instead is that sometimes in talkshows, the hosts and other invitees talk in a deprecating way about those virologists who are not there to defend themselves. So what is left for them to do? the only thing they can do, if they want to voice their opinion, is go on social media, make a youtube video etc. And then people say "oh it was on social media, it must be misinformation".....

(06-20-2021, 01:56 AM)Louisabell Wrote:

(06-19-2021, 08:48 PM)omcasey Wrote: .
It appears people have, rather than read the post or any of the source links I provided, including PubMed itself ( does everyone know what that is? ), simply continued the discussion based on nothing I posted in the link provided. Due to this, I will post this much of it here : you won't find anything here sourced in social media : regardless of where you yourself may have first interested with the information :


Magnetofection is a generally known technology in science, it is not a made-up thing.


PubMed, Superparagmagnetic Nanoparticle Delivery of DNA Vaccine
Magnetofection, the New Gene Transfection Technology
Covid Vaccines, Genetically Targeted Magnetic Control of the Nervous System?


Nowhere in here will you find anything about microchips.

This is technology in current development and use.

If you are not ready for the material,

I understand.


Casey

Hi Casey. Thank you for going to the effort of posting scientific publications for evidence. Doing so takes time and effort. I did read all the sources you posted and to be upfront, it has not convinced me that magnetic technology is being used in the Covid vaccines or that it is anything to be worried about. Of course, we must all come to our own conclusions when reviewing such material. I will give a few of my honest reflections on the various sources provided.

1. PubMed, Superparagmagnetic Nanoparticle Delivery of DNA Vaccine

This linked to the abstract of the study. The full paper can be found here:
https://sci-hub.st/10.1007/978-1-4939-0410-5_12

This study looks at the application of magnetics in medicine. Magnetics and medicine are both huge areas of science, and I am not surprised that scientists have attempted to combine the two. I will note that the study only looks at how magnetism may be used to improve gene uptake, which is a step in the general inoculation process. In the abstract, they only mention in vivo in terms of the technology showing promise, a pretty nebulous claim. However after reading the full scientific paper, it is clear that the stronger claims made are from in vitro experiments, which are mostly looking at cells in petri dishes. While in vitro experiments are useful, the results obtained are well known to not be easily transferable to in vivo situations. Also, all the in vivo experiments they reference in the introduction are on animals due to this technology being in a highly experimental state. I did not look at those referenced papers, but the actual paper linked to above is just outlining the method of making these magnetic particles in the lab, without further biological investigations. This technology may never become available for human applications, or only perhaps in extreme situations where it could cure someone with a terminal disease.

2. Magnetofection, the New Gene Transfection Technology

This looks to be a presentation written up by a biotech lab which has trademarked a new technology which uses magnetics in biological applications. Again, this technology is only claimed to be effective to "transfect cells in culture", this is in vitro, therefore it is in a very early state of development and may never be adopted as a medical practice.

3. Covid Vaccines, Genetically Targeted Magnetic Control of the Nervous System?

This article links to a few videos and articles in scientific magazines (not actual research papers). To keep what this article is discussing in perspective, the author states multiple times that they are just asking questions and making conjecture. There is nothing wrong with conjecture, especially when clearly stated. The first video that is linked is claimed to be from a medical doctor speaking. I can't confirm if she is a real medical doctor because she did not give her real name, however, I can also understand if she is wanting to protect her identity as well, so I'm not ruling it out. But she too is only claiming to be making a hypothesis and is not stating any conclusive facts. Some quotes from the video which supports this:

"I will now explain why I am proposing this hypothesis ...thousands of reports ... where they have been injected in their arm has become magnetic, there are a number of emerging patterns which need to be urgently investigated, they are all emerging patterns and all, some or none of them may be of significance." 

"This is my hypothesis, this is not me stating this as fact, but I must put this hypothesis out there."

Her hypothesis seems to be built on certain leaps in logic. Firstly she states this, "It is also of note that the listed ingredients do not include any metals or magnetic particles, however this magnetic nano technology does exist and extensive studies in animals and cells in vitro have taken place over the last 5 or 15 years." So, she has no other evidence that magnetic technology is being used in the Covid vaccine other than stating that research exists in magnetism applications in medicine, as well as noting that a potential magnetized particle was used in the development of the vaccine, but there is no source material on that.

Then the crux of her hypothesis is stated as this: "I hypothesise this magnetized mRNA is crossing the blood brain barrier and is causing harm there for a number of reasons". She uses the UK based reporting system for adverse effects of the vaccine MHRA Yellow Card Data Adverse Reactions. Then she talks about the cranial nerves and how they effect various body systems and relates them to a multitude of side effects reported that occur to various parts of the body. The brain is definitely involved in nearly every process of the body, but this is not proof that any vaccine particles are crossing the blood brain barrier.  She also brings up Bells Palsey (facial paralysis) as being a potential cause of this. However, this has also been looked at in the medical community. I recall it being stated that Bells Palsey has increased three-fold since the spread of Covid, so it is believed that it is the Covid virus proteins themselves that may be causing this. The vaccine is intended to make these proteins in the body, so there may be some relationship there, but it could be argued that the effects are mitigated through receiving it through the vaccine versus catching the virus in real life. Fortunately most of these cases appear temporary. I can try to find articles on this if anyone is interested.

She then goes on to make another hypothesis: "This leads me to my hypothesis that low level radiation from EMF may be directing where this damage takes place ... small temperature differences that occur in the brain with the use of mobile phones and other mobile devices has been debated but there is agreement that there is a very small increase in temperature that takes place within the brain with the use of mobile devices." She then points to EMF studies done on animals, then states that "EMF radiation has been listed as a possible carcinogen until 2011 by the IRAC". She seems to link EMF technology with the speculated about magnetised mRNA in the vaccine without any evidence. I see this to be another leap in logic. There is also no evidence that low level EMF has any negative effects.

Near the end she states this: "How can we proceed without these issues being fully investigated". I agree that any potential harm from medical interventions should be investigated, however I see a potential problem in this thinking. In the beginning of this same video there is shown various reports from "experts" who have "debunked" this theory. She does not find these claims credible, and I am not sure why. I'm not sure how one is to be convinced that a full enough investigation has been done on such hypotheses if one also rejects scientific mainstream views.

Moving on from that video, there are many scientific articles linked to which are mainly stating that research is being done on magnetics in medicine without reference to the Covid vaccine directly. The last two videos are interviews with a stated medical doctor, however this person is a doctor of osteopathic medicine, which is considered alternative to allopathic medicine. I am not saying this to diminish the expertise they have in this area, however as the vaccine is an allopathic form of healing, it stands to reason that the person being interviewed may not be the most qualified to make these calls.

So, I am just offering my perspective here. There are many people here who have received the vaccine and these claims can effect them in significant ways, so this is the main reason I am sharing these thoughts.

(06-20-2021, 12:21 PM)Diana Wrote:

(06-20-2021, 09:11 AM)Patrick Wrote: Alternative medicine is a term often used as opposed to evidence-based medicine.

It does not mean that it does not work, it just means that no one is able to find evidence that it works. That is mostly due to personal testimonials not counting as evidence.

This is too broad of a statement. We can't lump all healing modalities except for allopathic in one big category. Even homeopathy has evidence in the cause-and-effect observations of centuries, and is, in fact, the basic idea of traditional vaccines. This may be anecdotal as you say, but it is evidence nonetheless. You can't get past the idea of anecdotal evidence even in allopathy, which is unable to explain the placebo effect.

Naturopathic doctors are just as educated as allopathic doctors, though the education is oriented differently. Naturopaths are more more educated on nutrition and the person as a whole and how to balance their imbalances. Allopathy is more educated in the management of disease with pharmaceuticals and is great when it comes to trauma (burst appendix; heart attack, etc.). It has its place. When I was in a car accident, I was grateful to know I had no brain injuries from allopathic tests. If I was unwell and couldn't balance it myself, I would see a Naturopath. But that is just what I would do. 

Within these general descriptions, one must find a doctor—if needed—one is comfortable with.

As is stated in the Ra Material, the mind creates the body. So one might see the efficacy in any number of alternative therapies including even massage, breath work, aromatherapy. These things work with the mind as well as the body. Allopathy and Naturopathy can both heal and be helpful in their different ways. And belief matters as well. If you believe in allopathy by all means utilize it. 

Patrick, you made a statement earlier that I love: "As long as it's knowledge of fear and not fear of knowledge." Taking sides may close off information and effect discernment.

(06-20-2021, 12:21 PM)Diana Wrote:

(06-20-2021, 09:11 AM)Patrick Wrote: Alternative medicine is a term often used as opposed to evidence-based medicine.

It does not mean that it does not work, it just means that no one is able to find evidence that it works. That is mostly due to personal testimonials not counting as evidence.

This is too broad of a statement. We can't lump all healing modalities except for allopathic in one big category. Even homeopathy has evidence in the cause-and-effect observations of centuries, and is, in fact, the basic idea of traditional vaccines. This may be anecdotal as you say, but it is evidence nonetheless. You can't get past the idea of anecdotal evidence even in allopathy, which is unable to explain the placebo effect.

Naturopathic doctors are just as educated as allopathic doctors, though the education is oriented differently. Naturopaths are more more educated on nutrition and the person as a whole and how to balance their imbalances. Allopathy is more educated in the management of disease with pharmaceuticals and is great when it comes to trauma (burst appendix; heart attack, etc.). It has its place. When I was in a car accident, I was grateful to know I had no brain injuries from allopathic tests. If I was unwell and couldn't balance it myself, I would see a Naturopath. But that is just what I would do. 

Within these general descriptions, one must find a doctor—if needed—one is comfortable with.

As is stated in the Ra Material, the mind creates the body. So one might see the efficacy in any number of alternative therapies including even massage, breath work, aromatherapy. These things work with the mind as well as the body. Allopathy and Naturopathy can both heal and be helpful in their different ways. And belief matters as well. If you believe in allopathy by all means utilize it. 

Patrick, you made a statement earlier that I love: "As long as it's knowledge of fear and not fear of knowledge." Taking sides may close off information and effect discernment.

(06-20-2021, 03:06 PM)Margan Wrote: Magnets react to iron, is that correct? Omcasey, you seem to have a lot of scientific knowledge stemming also from your medical profession. Would you say, there is interaction going on with the blood iron, the red blood cells?
And if indeed the body is magnetized, and even more so thru these particles you mentioned, could that mean that exposure to electromagnetic fields will trigger a stronger reaction?
Thank you very much, I like your carefully worded elaborate postings

(06-20-2021, 03:06 PM)Margan Wrote: Magnets react to iron, is that correct? Omcasey, you seem to have a lot of scientific knowledge stemming also from your medical profession. Would you say, there is interaction going on with the blood iron, the red blood cells?
And if indeed the body is magnetized, and even more so thru these particles you mentioned, could that mean that exposure to electromagnetic fields will trigger a stronger reaction?
Thank you very much, I like your carefully worded elaborate postings

(06-20-2021, 05:58 PM)Margan Wrote: https://www.universallifetools.com/2021/06/more-on-spike-proteins-lipid-nanoparticles-adverse-events-pcr-test/

if you scroll down a bit, there is the 3hr interview Weinstein - Malone - Kirsch that got taken down from youtube.
I have a question, at 1hr 55 approx (see time stamp) Kirsch mentions 4 medications suitable for long-haulers....
could anyone of you please write them down for me? I am not a native speaker and he is pronouncing it too fast for me.

(06-20-2021, 09:11 AM)Patrick Wrote: Alternative medicine is a term often used as opposed to evidence-based medicine.

It does not mean that it does not work, it just means that no one is able to find evidence that it works. That is mostly due to personal testimonials not counting as evidence.

(06-20-2021, 10:00 PM)ScottK Wrote:

(06-20-2021, 09:11 AM)Patrick Wrote: Alternative medicine is a term often used as opposed to evidence-based medicine.

It does not mean that it does not work, it just means that no one is able to find evidence that it works. That is mostly due to personal testimonials not counting as evidence.

LOL

Are you talking about the vaccine which is non-evidence based but media-hype based?

Or are you talking about drugs that go through ten double blind placebo controlled studies where one study is found to achieve an extremely slight statistical significant result, and then the drug becomes a multi-billion dollar revenue producer that only gets marginal results if you take it every day for the rest of your life?

Of course, big pharma has no interest in performing any multi-million dollar double-blind placebo controlled studies on effective natural cures. There's no money in it for them if they find it works. So "evidence-based" can only mean something that makes big pharma big money?

The elite seem to have you captured in their web.

(06-21-2021, 06:55 AM)Patrick Wrote: I do not know many MDs personally, but only the youngest one is not using a holistic approach. I suspect they learn that in time. But they all agree on one thing. Vaccines are considered the greatest achievement of modern medicine. All other medication pales in comparison to how vaccination has helped humanity prevent needless suffering.

(06-21-2021, 11:14 AM)Louisabell Wrote:

(06-21-2021, 06:55 AM)Patrick Wrote: I do not know many MDs personally, but only the youngest one is not using a holistic approach. I suspect they learn that in time. But they all agree on one thing. Vaccines are considered the greatest achievement of modern medicine. All other medication pales in comparison to how vaccination has helped humanity prevent needless suffering.

Whoa, hold up there Patrick!

You forgot about antibiotics  

(06-22-2021, 02:38 PM)confusedseeker Wrote: ...As adults, do whatever you want, but involving children is an entirely different ballgame. They are innocent.

(06-23-2021, 02:27 PM)Patrick Wrote:

(06-22-2021, 02:38 PM)confusedseeker Wrote: ...As adults, do whatever you want, but involving children is an entirely different ballgame. They are innocent.

That bothers me as well. And by the looks of it, many in the mainstream are quite bothered too.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1396277191550242816.html