(11-09-2020, 12:23 PM)Agua Wrote: The Ra material is quite different, not by not withholding information, but by not containing the element of initation.

Quote:42.16 ▶ Questioner: I had one experience in meditation which I spoke of before which was very profound approximately twenty years ago, a little less. What disciplines would be most applicable to re-create this situation and this type of experience?

Ra: I am Ra. Your experience would best be approached from the ceremonial magical stance. However, the Wanderer or adept shall have the far greater potential for this type of experience which, as you have undoubtedly analyzed to be the case, is one of an archetypal nature, one belonging to the roots of cosmic consciousness.

42.17 ▶ Questioner: Was that in any way related to the Golden Dawn in ceremonial magic?

Ra: I am Ra. The relationship was congruency.

42.18 ▶ Questioner: Then in attempting to reproduce this experience would I then best follow practices for the Order of the Golden Dawn in reproducing this?

Ra: I am Ra. To attempt to reproduce an initiatory experience is to move, shall we say, backwards. However, the practice of this form of service to others is appropriate in your case working with your associates. It is not well for positively polarized entities to work singly. The reasons for this are obvious.

42.19 ▶ Questioner: Then this experience was a form of initiation? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

(11-09-2020, 12:23 PM)Agua Wrote:

(11-08-2020, 05:52 PM)peregrine Wrote: Insofar as the content goes, the Ra Material does fall into line in some ways with the Mystery School tradition, but the presentational structure is much different.  The Mystery Schools were called such because instructors withheld much of their information from the general public so as to use it in novel ways as part of their initiations; whereas, so far as we know, L/L Research does not operate that way.  All the available information is made freely available and the reader is on her own as to what to make of it.

This is a crucial misunderstanding!

One aspect of „Mystery schools“ withholding information is that there exist quite a few powerful techniques that can be harmful for the unprepared and can also be harmful when not done correctly.

(11-09-2020, 12:23 PM)Agua Wrote: „Spiritual information“ cannot be conveyed through words, and initiation does not happen on an intellectual level.
Initiation is not that you get a PDf with additional imformation that has been kept secret so far.
Initiation is a transmission of gnosis if you forgive my poor choice of words.

(11-09-2020, 06:16 PM)Agua Wrote: An „initiation“ as I experienced it and as it is intended to be in those circles is a very powerful experience, an experience definetely is beyond your former frame of reference, it is an experience that changes the way you view and approach the subject in question completely.

Ra Wrote:106.12 Questioner: I’m going to come back to a couple of points here, but I have to get in a question here about myself. It’d seem to be critical at this point. Can Ra tell me what is physically wrong with me, and what’s causing it, and what I could do to alleviate it?

Ra: I am Ra. The questioner is one also in the midst of further initiation. During this space/time the possibility for mental/emotional distortion approaching that which causes the entity to become dysfunctional is markèd. Further, the yellow-ray, chemical vehicle of the questioner is aging and has more difficulty in the absorption of needed minerals such as iron and other substances such as papain, potassium, and calcium.

At the same time the body of yellow ray begins to have more difficulty eliminating trace elements such as aluminum. The energizing effect has occurred in the colon of the questioner and the distortions in that area are increasingly substantial. Lastly, there is a small area of infection in the mouth of the questioner which needs attention.

(11-09-2020, 06:16 PM)Agua Wrote: Aion,
no offense intended, but its starting to get out of the context I wrote my response in.
Peregrine originally wrote that „Mystery schools“ withhold information which they later share in initiation.
Whereas Ra, according to Peregrine, does not not withhold information.

My basic point was that initiation is BEYOND words, beyond intellectual information.

And I am fully aware that initiation does not exclusively happen through a human presence.
But, well, when we start to call everything an initiation it might be theoretically correct, but not in the context of what we or at least I talked about.
In that regard I would prefer to restrict „initiation“ especially in the context of initiation being done in Mystery Schools or the likes to a transmission of a direct experience as opposed to a concept that might vaguely point to this experience if you know what I mean.

Otherwise, and thats what I intended to convey in my response to Vasilia, we relativate and dilute the term „initiation“ into meaninglessness.

An „initiation“ as I experienced it and as it is intended to be in those circles is a very powerful experience, an experience definetely is beyond your former frame of reference, it is an experience that changes the way you view and approach the subject in question completely.
And this is definetely not a „mild experience“. If it is a „mild experience“ it simply wasnt an initiation.

Initiation previsely is meant to be that, enable you to experience something completely outside of your imagination, outside the current limitations of your consciousness.

We are probably in the same boat here, but I wanted to put my comment in the context that it originally was.

(11-10-2020, 02:33 AM)Agua Wrote: Initiation in Mystery Schools:

Imitiation as done in the CONTEXT of Mystery Schools and the likes are not a sharing of intellectual information but a „transmission“ that goes beyond or in other words is beyond that level.
For that reason one cannot say that „they“ withhold imformation that they later share in imformation, but rather that in imitiation they convey or transmit „something“ that cannot possibly be conveyed through words.

That actually was my point.

(11-09-2020, 04:21 PM)Agua Wrote: In case that was what you meant and you had initiation in one of those „circles“ I apologize.

(11-09-2020, 06:16 PM)Agua Wrote: Otherwise, and thats what I intended to convey in my response to Vasilia, we relativate and dilute the term „initiation“ into meaninglessness.

(11-09-2020, 08:02 PM)peregrine Wrote: Who's to say that Vasilisa's innate yearning for transformation was not focalized and responded to when she first read the Ra Material?  Formal structure is not the primary ingredient for spiritual transformation, is it?  Perhaps there's more Mystery to it than you may believe?
   

(11-10-2020, 10:08 AM)Agua Wrote: Again I apologize for getting you wrong and ranting based on wrong assumptions about your path!

(11-12-2020, 01:03 AM)peregrine Wrote: Yeah, dude, I'd agree with you that you've drifted off the general pathway of thoughts in this instance.

In my experience, when you demand of someone, "Hey, prove to me that you're not a stinkin' butt-hole," you're unlikely to receive a welcoming or otherwise constructive response.  Is your experience any different?

I would add this, organizations dedicated to experiencing the mysteries of being often are intended to serve those who show (internally) a deep desire to seek and to serve.  Considering what that might smell like, feel like, taste like could be helpful to you in your bumptious searching.

(11-12-2020, 02:28 AM)Black Dragon Wrote: With my own distortions, maybe I can't achieve a 100% perfect idea of what a "deep desire to serve" is, but the notion that I have not considered it, is dismissive and condescending, to say the least. That's the point I keep getting back to. Dismissiveness. Judgment. Condescension. Elitism. Holier than thou attitudes. 

The Good News According to Levi (a/k/a Matthew) Wrote:Chapter7 

[sup]1 [/sup]Judge not, that ye be not judged.

[sup]2 [/sup]For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

[sup]3 [/sup]And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

[sup]4 [/sup]Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

[sup]5 [/sup]Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

[sup]6 [/sup]Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

[sup]7 [/sup]Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

[sup]8 [/sup]For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

[sup]9 [/sup]Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

[sup]10 [/sup]Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

[sup]11 [/sup]If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

[sup]12 [/sup]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

(11-11-2020, 11:58 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: I have a lot of questions and distortions when it comes to the topic of mystery schools, and posted a long post here that didn't fit in 100% with the topic and trajectory of this discussion, so I moved it to my own thread([self-moderated split] Mystery Schools, STO Principles, and My Own Distortions). I would really appreciate it if members with a better knowledge and experience of mystery schools would address my concerns and share their perspectives with me, either on my thread on in PM.

(11-12-2020, 03:14 AM)Vasilisa Wrote:

(11-11-2020, 11:58 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: I have a lot of questions and distortions when it comes to the topic of mystery schools, and posted a long post here that didn't fit in 100% with the topic and trajectory of this discussion, so I moved it to my own thread([self-moderated split] Mystery Schools, STO Principles, and My Own Distortions). I would really appreciate it if members with a better knowledge and experience of mystery schools would address my concerns and share their perspectives with me, either on my thread on in PM.

I usually suggest reading the definition of Ra from the first book, what he says about love. Then go to the Bible literature. It was no accident that Carla read the Bible as a daily offering. Then carefully read the philosophical writings. You can start with Socrates and end with Heidegger and Cassirer. Meditate on the ideas of the Logos in various schools of philosophy. Read Jung's correspondence with Pauli. You can list them for a very long time) If you work 5 to 16 hours a day every day, you will need about 12 years for everything. After this self-study, you can talk about Mystery Schools. And this is not condescending advice, but real work that I did for myself. Although I didn't really learn English)))

This approach may seem boring and tedious, but it helped me. Personally, no one invited me to the organization to which I applied. I found the Charter website myself, wrote a petition, passed a four-time interview, then a dedication, and then went down the list. Mystery schools may be different, but their internal structure and working principles are similar. Until you get inside, you won't know how it works for you personally. And even if you do, an untrained person very quickly becomes disillusioned with such organizations and leaves.

(11-12-2020, 03:22 AM)Black Dragon Wrote: Good info, although the post that I transplanted though doesn't address so much about how one goes about joining, but calls into question the actual sincerity of the service to humanity of such organizations and their ethics, which seem to me a bit elitist, judgmental, and less than heart-centered.