Quote:...The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced...

(08-16-2020, 07:24 PM)Infinite Wrote: Ra said the service to self path was created as a way to accelerate evolution in the third density. He also said that the Logoi who chose the extension of free will offer greater quality and variety of experiences for the Creator. I wouldn't say it was a mistake, but in a way, a success.
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(08-16-2020, 07:24 PM)Infinite Wrote: ...
The evil of the world, cruelty, suffering, etc. All of these things are terrible, something that in our perception seems inexplicable and unjustified. However, when looking at the whole picture, the value of all this is perceived. We are in an illusion, although it is persistent. All evil and suffering are part of that illusion. When the curtains of 3D life are lifted, we remember that it was all a great cosmic theater from the beginning and the period before we started acting. We also realized that we identify too much with the play and our character. It's like being in the best moment of your life and one day you sleep too much, you have some bad dreams, but when you wake up in the morning you remember how you've been living happily. When you wake up from life, you remember that you are the Creator, that everything is one, that you are eternal, that everything is fine, that the destiny of all is the eternal glory of the Creator's endless Light and Love. It is as if the whole universe has become a safe ground for you, because how could you fear something if everything is always fine?

Duality is difficult, but it is this friction of polarities that moves the complex mind / body / spirit of the third density to seek more quickly for spiritual truth. Another notable fact is: Lucifer and the other Logoi did not create evil, they created the possibility that it would exist. Evil is the result of free will. It was our right, as 3D entities, to choose the way we would live that made evil possible. Suffering is something more intrinsic to the veil of forgetfulness. That's my humble opinion.

(08-16-2020, 07:34 PM)Aion Wrote: ...
This Octave is going to exist forever, just as all Octaves do, because from certain perspectives this Octave is occurring entirely simultaneously, everything that is possible to occur in this Octave has, will or is occurring.
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(08-16-2020, 07:34 PM)Aion Wrote: Good and Evil are entirely subjective. "What is normal for the spider is a nightmare for the fly."

The issue comes when you realize you can choose to be the spider or the fly. More interesting when you realize you are both.

Quote:Would you say that this current point in all of the Creation can be used at will by any entities from any octaves that would wish to experience what it's like to be as far away from the nature of the Creator as possible ?  You come here to take a shadow shower we could say and then are satisfied and go on having fun experiencing the rest of all octaves for all eternity without the need for this suffering ever again ?

Quote:The concept of STS by itself goes further than this.  It's not standard duality or polarity, there is a depth to it that is not rightly balanced in the design of this octave of experience.  I'm pretty sure it's because it was not planned for at all.  All the densities of experience in an octave are all designed and planned before any of it is created in space/time.  STS was never imagined before being experienced in space/time and so was not planned for.

Quote:Before the veil, we still had polarity in 3d space/time.  We could choose in between not caring all that much about our evolution while we're having fun playing the game OR caring about our evolution because we're ready to reach new types of experiences in 4d.  Yes it could take many millions of years to complete 3d.  So what ?  We were all having fun, going trough an incredible variety of experiences.

That being said.  I would like to mention that right now in my current incarnation ALL IS WELL.  I live in abundance of everything (love, resources, other-selves, etc...)  I am not complaining for my lot in life.  I am truly thankful for everything that happens to me, even when I get angry for any reason, I'm still thankful !  I am just advocating for those I see around me on this planet whom are suffering needlessly, because I sincerely believe there is no need to evolve that fast.

Now if I could wrap my head around this planet at this time/space being the only place in the multiverse where this level of separation and suffering is possible and that entities come here to experience this for themselves as if it was a kind of PhD degree they want to get.  Knowing that all else in the multiverse is just having all kinds of fun playing the different games (fun even while incarnated in any of it).  Well then I would feel better about it I guess.  But that does not seem to be the case, the way I understood it from how Ra presented it.

(08-17-2020, 09:16 AM)Great Central Sun Wrote: I don't think the Creator has fun in that.

Q'uo said the Creator has ever-increasing joy and agony.

(08-17-2020, 09:58 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 09:16 AM)Great Central Sun Wrote: I don't think the Creator has fun in that.

Q'uo said the Creator has ever-increasing joy and agony.

Oh !  Is this the session you are referring to ? https://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1986/1986_1214.aspx

I always resonated with that the Creation is supposed to be fun always and that the 3d within our particular octave is a UNIQUE point in all of Infinity where these extremes of agony and joy is being played out to the extent the Creator is willing to go.  This being a finite thing.  Because I can't imagine the Creator (you and me) wishing to experience INFINITE suffering just so we can experience INFINITE Joy.

It has to be a finite thing where all entities decides what their limits are in both directions ?

(08-17-2020, 09:13 AM)Patrick Wrote: It is ironic yes. But I wonder if this very small part of the Creator having fun tormenting the rest of itself really shows up in all octaves after this one or if this insanity has been fully resolved and integrated by then and so does not need to play itself out again in this destructive way.

I mean surely the Law Of Non Repetition takes care of this somehow?

And if not, in order for this part to have its fun, it needs others to volunteer to play the victim.  Maybe the victim role will be freely chosen instead of mandatory by then. OR we who are here now are already volunteers for this and being veiled would never understand why we made such a choice. Interesting thought experiment.

Quote:90.19 Questioner: Then did our Logos hope to see generated a positive and negative harvest from each density up to the sixth, starting with the third, as being the most efficient form of generating experience known to It at the time of Its construction of this system of evolution?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

(08-17-2020, 03:22 PM)Patrick Wrote: The Law of Non Repetition is just that the Creator will not allow itself to get stuck for infinity in a loop repeating the truly same experiences.  So any repetition that occurs is not really a repetition, it might seam so to us, but some parameters are always different thus it's not exactly the same experience.  The way the Creation is setup, it is not possible to repeat EXACTLY the VERY SAME experience.

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That's interesting.  So when this solar system was created, the saga of polarities was already discovered at the time.  That is probably the case for all galaxies then.  The solar systems closer to the center of the galaxies are those that were created for simpler spirit/mind/body (without the veil) and those further out, like ours, for spirit/mind/body complexes.  And then we can assume that as soon as the veil is there, STS arises.  Meaning that this "insanity" was always a potential inside the Creator (inside us) and was automatically revealed as soon as it was given an outlet to do so (the veil).

Our evilness was always there, but we could not see it before the veiling.  So then it's not a mistake, since all already is and we can just become aware of it.  But at least I think we could say it was a surprise.  So even if this octave was not planned with STS in mind, things were all quickly rearranged to use this new concept of polarity to enhance the play pretty much everywhere.

This leaves me with a lot to ponder on the nature of our shadow selves.  Like how could we create a plane of experience that would allow this side of our selves to fully express itself without it being at the expanse of the rest ?  Maybe that is a big theme being explored in the next octave or even this one.

Quote:80.8 Questioner: I am sorry for my lack of penetration of these mechanisms and I apologize for some rather stupid questions, but I think we have here a point that is somewhat central to what we are presently attempting to understand, so even though my next questions may be almost unacceptably stupid, I will attempt to try to understand what this power that our visitor seeks is and how he uses it. For it seems to me that this is central to the mind and the evolution of it in which we are involved.
As this entity that is our visitor increases his power through these works, what is the power that he increases? Can you describe it?

Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.

The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.

Quote:106.23 Questioner: I would just ask if there’s anything we can do to help the instrument and make her more comfortable or improve the contact, and what would be the soonest Ra would recommend the next contact? And we would certainly— I would certainly appreciate the return of the golden hawk. It gave me great comfort.

Ra: I am Ra. You have complete freedom to schedule workings.

We suggest the nature of all manifestation to be illusory and functional only insofar as the entity turns from shape and shadow to the One.

I am Ra. We leave you, my friends, in the love and the glorious light of the One Infinite Creator. Go forth, then, rejoicing in the power and in the peace of the One Infinite Creator. Adonai.

Quote:97.9 Questioner: Possibly I didn’t phrase that the way I meant to, which was: we already have determined the items that should be removed from the first four cards. The question was: have I missed anything that should be removed which were not of Ra’s original intention in the last few sessions of determining what should be removed?

Ra: I am Ra. We shall repeat our opinion that there are several concepts which, in each image, are astrologically based. However, these concepts are not without merit within the concept complex intended by Ra, given the perception by the student of these concepts in an appropriate manner.

We wish not to form that which may be considered by any mind/body/spirit complex to be a complete and infallible series of images. There is a substantial point to be made in this regard. We have been, with the questioner’s aid, investigating the concept complexes of the great architecture of the archetypical mind. To more clearly grasp the nature, the process, and the purpose of archetypes, Ra provided a series of concept complexes. In no way whatsoever should we, as humble messengers of the One Infinite Creator, wish to place before the consideration of any mind/body/spirit complex which seeks its evolution the palest tint of the idea that these images are anything but a resource for working in the area of the development of the faith and the will.

To put this into perspective we must gaze then at the stunning mystery of the One Infinite Creator. The archetypical mind does not resolve any paradox or bring all into unity. This is not the property of any resource which is of the third density. Therefore, may we ask the student to look up from inward working and behold the glory, the might, the majesty, the mystery, and the peace of oneness. Let no consideration of bird or beast, darkness or light, shape or shadow keep any which seeks from the central consideration of unity.

We are not messengers of the complex. We bring the message of unity. In this perspective only may we affirm the value to the seeker of adepthood of the grasping, articulating, and use of this resource of the deep mind exemplified by the concept complexes of the archetypes.

Quote:79.29 Questioner: Now we are getting to what I was trying to determine. Then at this point were there still only nine archetypes and the veil had just been drawn between the Matrix and Potentiator?

Ra: I am Ra. There were nine archetypes and many shadows.

79.30 Questioner: By shadows do you mean what I might refer to as the birthing of small archetypical biases?

Ra: I am Ra. Rather we would describe these shadows as the inchoate thoughts of helpful structures not yet fully conceived.

Quote:28.16 Questioner: Are you saying then there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?

Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.

However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.

(08-16-2020, 06:49 PM)Patrick Wrote: It occurs to me that Evil might have been invented by mistake.  I know there are no mistakes, so instead let's say it was invented by surprise then.

My intuition tells me that The One Infinite Creator (Love) does indeed exist even without a polar opposite (Fear).

As Ra says in 77.19:

Quote:...The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced...

I do not believe the intent of that Logos was to create evil/fear when the veil was invented.  So I believe Evil was pretty much invented by mistake.  Of course, now that STS does exist, we make the better of it, we learn from it and use it to contrast God's Love with it so that we see how great his Love is.  There was no need/intent to contrast it to that extent.

My hope now is that there will be no need to repeat this type of experience in the next Octave.  Imagine trying to invent ways of contrasting the true nature of the Creator with even more separation, fear, suffering and sorrow than what is already possible in this octave.

So, for the next octave, I cast my vote for a design where all experiences are ALWAYS fun.  There has to be ways of contrasting/polarizing efficiently without STS.  Things we can't even imagine at the moment.

My friends, what are your thoughts on the subject ?

(08-16-2020, 07:34 PM)Aion Wrote: The issue comes when you realize you can choose to be the spider or the fly. More interesting when you realize you are both.

(08-29-2020, 11:37 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: Am I an ignoramus in the sinkhole of indifference ...?

Quote:16.53 Questioner: All right. Continuing with what we were just talking about, namely densities: I understand then that each density has seven sub-densities which again have seven sub-densities which again have seven sub-densities. This expands at an extremely large rate as things are increased in powers of seven. Does this mean that in any density level anything that you can think of is happening? And many things that you never thought of are happening… are there… everything is happening… this is confusing…

Ra: I am Ra. From your confusion we select the concept with which you struggle, that being infinite opportunity. You may consider any possibility/probability complex as having an existence.

Quote:Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

(09-02-2020, 07:04 AM)Patrick Wrote: I was just imagining being tortured in a new kind of body in the next octave where we have new unimaginable ways of feeling. I do not believe we need to go down that rabbit hole. Forever having new ways of suffering ever deeper and more completely in each subsequent octave.

But yes, freedom is paramount, and so some entities will want that maybe. We just need to find a way to not make it mandatory for each entities to go through this experience like is the case with us right now.

(09-02-2020, 01:56 AM)Aion Wrote: All this concern about other octaves and eternity and whatnot.

That's all going to melt away in timelessness anyways.

Personally I prefer not to idealize through avoidance.

(08-31-2020, 09:05 PM)Minyatur Wrote: It is possible that at some nexus the Logos thought that its Creation was meant to be eternal fun, but to me that sounds like a child that thinks its life will be to forever remain with its parents. A limited point of view knows not better until a need comes to expand these limits. Every Octave is a finite focus upon infinity, a limited point of view of what the One Infinite Creator is, and they expand until the limit of it is unneeded.

(08-31-2020, 09:05 PM)Minyatur Wrote: It is all to offer you a quality experience, are you not entertained Creator?

(09-02-2020, 11:11 AM)Diana Wrote: This is the part that rubs me the wrong way. The idea of evolution and expansion of consciousness in the big picture seems to align with the natural flow of movement in this existence. In the focused picture—here in 3D—it's questionable in my mind to create the veil in order to enrich or speed up this evolution. I comprehend the rich experience it offers, and feel that even in my own life. But I wonder if it's worth it when so many suffer because of the veil.

(09-02-2020, 11:11 AM)Diana Wrote: Some of the posts here and channelings (Q'uo, not Ra), remind me of the Christian God and just accepting what "He" doles out and worshiping "Him" just because—why? I have never been inclined to do that. And I'm not inclined to like the veil because it makes the Creator's experience better. However, underneath any considerations for a Creator or even the Logos is the structure of this reality which can be aligned with and cooperated with, and in that I am grateful for the archetypes as given by Ra.

There is a place in the world for rebels, and I guess I will always be that.