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+--- Thread: Mental Illness, & Labels (/showthread.php?tid=16918)
Mental Illness, & Labels - Plenum - 02-12-2019
I'd like to write here a bit about the nature (phenomena) of mental illness, and the Labels (stigmas) associated with them.
First of all, my personal belief is that unless one is substantially, and thoroughly clear in the lower three chakras, EVERYONE is subject to mental/emotional issues of some degree.
So in that sense, people are moving into and out of mental balance, on almost a daily basis.
The issue then becomes: when a particular issue/configuration becomes so SEVERE, that it becomes the dominant presence, and it basically sits on top all your mental functioning, and distorts the process of interpretation.
So I'm talking about things like:
bipolarity: experiencing the highs and lows of life as ABSOLUTES. Not being able to have adequate perspective in either the highs, or the lows. They become magnified and extreme.
depressiveness: losing hope in the future, and personal change. A greyness and lack of excitement.
schizoidal: taking things as ABSOLUTE, again, but this time in the spiritual space. Not being to maintain the objective context of the physical environment, and social relationships
grandiosity: wanting to achieve and present as something that you are not. An overcompensation for low self-esteem
masochistic: the belief that you need to be punished. Internalised. So instead of waiting for external punishment, you apply it to yourself. Thereby relieving the strain/stress of waiting for an external attack.
/ /
Now, as I said, I think EVERYONE has these tendencies, even if they are very small and minor - not really a major disruptor of daily life. They are just pressure points that can be activated, given enough stress/uncertainty in our lives.
It can be learned behaviour from our parents; or just a bias that comes more naturally to our personality.
But I think it's a difference in DEGREE, not in kind, that separates us from those who have more severe distortions, and come to the awareness of the medical establishment, for diagnosis, and treatment.
What I'm trying to say is that there's a stigma associated with mental illness - because I don't think it's that well understood. It's often seen as 'oh - that person went crazy - and had a breakdown'. Rather than approaching it with compassion and empathy, and acknowledging that we've also had phases of the same kind of mental distortion.
/ /
Just putting a label on the 'mental illness' creates a gulf of separation. Like that person is irrevocably damaged, and we can't relate to them anymore. They're just 'damaged goods'.
I think just being able to UNDERSTAND some of the deeper movements behind those conditions, goes a long way to making them less scary.
That doesn't mean it's easy to interact or interface with someone with very deep patterns of Distortion; and quite often, things get misinterpreted, despite the best care in words and intentions.
But at least one doesn't need to distance oneself, on an internal level.
One can acknowledge the Distortion at play; because one has experienced a mild form of it oneself, at some point in one's life.
G
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - ada - 02-12-2019
How does healing occur in such a format?
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - Plenum - 02-12-2019
well - ultimately - I think one has to become more and more able to be fully PRESENT to the deeper pain.
The issue - that I've found - with these mental conditions, is that they are response mechanisms to the deeper issues.
So in a way - they're protective - in the SHORT TERM.
But in the LONG TERM, they can lead to lots of issues: because the actual real causation is never consciously acknowledged. And so it's never transformed, and processed.
But it's hard! Because the emotional trauma is very REAL.
And few people want to actually get CLOSER to the pain. Why would anyone want to do THAT??
So it's a slow process. Of building up self-confidence and trust, to face it more honestly and directly.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - Cyan - 02-12-2019
The job of god is to give us the possibility of delaying more pain while trying to be our friend and keep convincing us that the only way to real life is to find your deepest pain and make a nest in it.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - MangusKhan - 02-12-2019
Garry, this is a great post. I wonder though if you meant to write schizo-affective instead of specifically schizoidal.
Edit: Schizo-affective is something specific again, apparently. I can't keep up with all the labels for the maladaptive perceptual distortions.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - Plenum - 02-12-2019
(02-12-2019, 11:12 AM)MangusKhan Wrote: Garry, this is a great post. I wonder though if you meant to write schizo-affective instead of specifically schizoidal.
thanks for pointing it out! I didn't realise that schizoid was it's own distinct classification.
And just reading some of the wikipedia descriptions of 'diagnosis', makes it obvious how hard they are trying to create 'hard boxes' to put people into - rather than 'feeling' into the condition itself, and understanding someone's emotional state.
But then again - it must be quite a thing as a Psychiatrist to deal with Clients who have these conditions on the level of Clinical Disorders.
/ /
re: the edit, yes - the condition I'm pointing to is traditionally the 'schizophrenic' one, but I find that term quite loaded, and almost judgemental.
so I tried to use something more 'neutral', in my eyes.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - AnthroHeart - 02-12-2019
I have schizoaffective which is bipolar mixed with schizophrenia.
It is about equally scary and beautiful.
If I had a choice I would have it, because it really helps me explore extremes in reality.
Some stuff so beautiful and adorable that I can't handle it.
Emotional hyper-sensitivity.
Seeing my skin blood red from being mentally microwaved, repeatedly, off and on.
Voices telling you "I wouldn't" when you ask if you should do something illegal and saving you from prison.
Voices telling you to kill your dog.
On meds it's not scary at all. There is some general anxiety, but I do miss feeling like a kid again.
Like I had died and gone to heaven. Feeling euphoric while I sat on my neighbor's deck, thinking I had died, with the warm sun beaming down on me.
Seeing the grass take form of animals and animated, moving slowly.
Seeing cute characters on the wall of the jail cell before I was taken to mental hospital.
Seeing shadows on the wall animated, not scary, but very interesting.
Finding a key and seeing a label on it, thinking it was a key to another Octave.
Being told by voices I did so well I could skip the next Octave.
Being afraid because I thought I was going to be trapped in an Octave of Light with no Love. It would get hotter and hotter.
On a hot day, thinking I was at fault for the sun getting so hot and that it would heat up and destroy the earth because of me.
Being in jail for stabbing my dog, and seeing the lights begin to glow red, thinking I was being transported to hell.
Seeing the living room turn red, thinking I'm going to hell, and realizing that I create my own reality, so I fought it.
My stupid religious life made me feel guilty in many of my experiences. I kept thinking hell.
When I was in jail, I felt scared a little, and thought I was going to be there (in hell) forever.
I told the officers I would be there forever, and they told me I wouldn't, and I didn't believe them.
Many experiences with Ra, and seeing the sun was white hot, thinking I had trapped them in an ever-hotter sun, and that they were suffering and blaming me for it.
Hearing a song by a group Ra (Do You call my name?) and thinking they were singing to me directly.
Being scared at Halloween by the static on the TV.
Thinking that every movie, news, tv show was talking to me directly.
I have heard that having schizophrenia would make me a more natural shaman, if I were to explore that path.
I get excited about becoming one, but I don't know if I have what it takes.
I don't really have the love to help other people that I should.
I haven't been called to become a shaman, because that call nearly kills you.
You either become a shaman or die. And it hasn't been like that for me.
Seeing two stars (suns) on a tv show and thinking they were the anthro star and the furry star.
Continually walking, unable to sit still for long.
Thinking I was transforming into a blue anthro, and that I had to be microwaved (painlessly) to transform.
So my jail cell (solitary) turned into a microwave chamber. I could hear the fan.
Seeing a printer levitate at the jail.
Getting down on the floor in front of officers at the jail, and rolling around on the ground. Officer stands on me.
After rolling around, the next day, they told me I behaved very well.
A guy talking to me about being an individual, and that I wanted to go back into the Field, unmanifest.
That he was coming from the Field, and I was going back into the Field.
Your view of reality becomes warped. There are things you believe that simply aren't true, and religion, or Law of One plays a big part.
I explained to that guy the Law of One as he sat in front of me.
I saw a character who looked like I think Ra, with a white pope hat, doing hand gestures to me. He looked blurry because I didn't have my glasses on.
I told him I'd give him my hands because I loved Ra. Then the handcuffs tightened, and squeezed my hands and it hurt and I cried out.
There were marks left on my wrists for a few weeks.
I got to see directly into my subconscious. Saw video (no sound) on TV with the TV off.
Watching a video game that seemed to move super fast and I was wondering how the kid could possibly play that.
Experiencing "climbing the Octave" where I feel like I'm rising up in subdensities (though they are all physical in the mind), and it just gets more violent shaking in my mind.
And then at the top it is peaceful. Looking into the next octave but being blocked by a shield of light.
Looking into the previous Octave and seeing particles moving slowly. Feeling an exhalation of air. Exhalation is how I can explain the feeling of the previous Octave experience.
I don't know if it really was the previous octave, but that's what was shown to me.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - ada - 02-12-2019
Thank you, this is an issue I need contemplating.
I also think that the labels given to most of these mental issues are too general and in a sense avoiding the core pain, most often treated with medicine only and without the appliance of human touch and understanding.
I think that it is possible to heal such individuals, or rater steps to healing, are possible through opening the heart to other-selves in a 'reaching hand' kind of sense. But it cannot occur if the individual is defensive and closed hearted.
But definitely work for both self and other-self.
Thanks for bringing up this topic.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - AnthroHeart - 02-12-2019
(02-12-2019, 12:03 PM)blossom Wrote: I think that it is possible to heal such individuals, or rater steps to healing, are possible through opening the heart to other-selves in a 'reaching hand' kind of sense. But it cannot occur if the individual is defensive and closed hearted.
Do certain mentally ill people need healing? I don't really want healing. I am embarrassed to say because I would have to work.
But I also wouldn't get to experience altered-reality. Like seeing a computer printer levitate and morph into something else.
Being in a simulation. Seeing simulated reality, whether it's scary or not.
I don't know if I'm closed hearted, because this allows me to see into my subconscious.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - ada - 02-12-2019
(02-12-2019, 11:56 AM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: I have schizoaffective which is bipolar mixed with schizophrenia.
It is about equally scary and beautiful.
If I had a choice I would have it, because it really helps me explore extremes in reality.
Some stuff so beautiful and adorable that I can't handle it.
Emotional hyper-sensitivity.
Seeing my skin blood red from being mentally microwaved, repeatedly, off and on.
Voices telling you "I wouldn't" when you ask if you should do something illegal and saving you from prison.
Voices telling you to kill your dog.
On meds it's not scary at all. There is some general anxiety, but I do miss feeling like a kid again.
Like I had died and gone to heaven. Feeling euphoric while I sat on my neighbor's deck, thinking I had died, with the warm sun beaming down on me.
Seeing the grass take form of animals and animated, moving slowly.
Seeing shadows on the wall animated, not scary, but very interesting.
Finding a key and seeing a label on it, thinking it was a key to another Octave.
Being told by voices I did so well I could skip the next Octave.
Being afraid because I thought I was going to be trapped in an Octave of Light with no Love. It would get hotter and hotter.
On a hot day, thinking I was at fault for the sun getting so hot and that it would heat up and destroy the earth because of me.
Being in jail for stabbing my dog, and seeing the lights begin to glow red, thinking I was being transported to hell.
Seeing the living room turn red, thinking I'm going to hell, and realizing that I create my own reality, so I fought it.
My stupid religious life made me feel guilty in many of my experiences. I kept thinking hell.
When I was in jail, I felt scared a little, and thought I was going to be there (in hell) forever.
I told the officers I would be there forever, and they told me I wouldn't, and I didn't believe them.
Many experiences with Ra, and seeing the sun was white hot, thinking I had trapped them in an ever-hotter sun, and that they were suffering and blaming me for it.
Hearing a song by a group Ra (Do You call my name?) and thinking they were singing to me directly.
Being scared at Halloween by the static on the TV.
Thinking that every movie, news, tv show was talking to me directly.
I have heard that having schizophrenia would make me a more natural shaman, if I were to explore that path.
I get excited about becoming one, but I don't know if I have what it takes.
I don't really have the love to help other people that I should.
I haven't been called to become a shaman, because that call nearly kills you.
You either become a shaman or die. And it hasn't been like that for me.
That sounds very scary. I think if you have someone whom you trust and can share what you're experiencing at that moment, they can help bring you back to center.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - AnthroHeart - 02-12-2019
Blossom, yes it can be terrifying, but also beautiful.
It doesn't matter if you have someone you can trust. You don't believe them.
You believe only what you experience.
My best friend at the time told me to take my medication, but I just then talked about fucking the world and did a sexual motion in the car. And I didn't take my meds at that time.
My mom once exclaimed that she smelled burning, and I could smell my own chakras overactive and burning,
so I thought that my chakras were burning.
One time I was clapping really loud, and shaking my head till it hurt. My mom told me to stop, but I didn't.
I wrote a lot more in that previous post. A few more things that I experienced.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - ada - 02-12-2019
(02-12-2019, 12:10 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:(02-12-2019, 12:03 PM)blossom Wrote: I think that it is possible to heal such individuals, or rater steps to healing, are possible through opening the heart to other-selves in a 'reaching hand' kind of sense. But it cannot occur if the individual is defensive and closed hearted.
Do certain mentally ill people need healing? I don't really want healing. I am embarrassed to say because I would have to work.
But I also wouldn't get to experience altered-reality. Like seeing a computer printer levitate and morph into something else.
Being in a simulation. Seeing simulated reality, whether it's scary or not.
I don't know if I'm closed hearted, because this allows me to see into my subconscious.
I don't know, but if you're fearing or having distrustful thoughts about other-selves then you probably need healing in that specific area. If you're finding it possible to trust and enrust others then you are acting from an open heart and also in a sense, practicing healing.
On a side note I think we all require healing or to practice healing during our lives and works on earth.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - MangusKhan - 02-12-2019
(02-12-2019, 11:43 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote:(02-12-2019, 11:12 AM)MangusKhan Wrote: Garry, this is a great post. I wonder though if you meant to write schizo-affective instead of specifically schizoidal.
thanks for pointing it out! I didn't realise that schizoid was it's own distinct classification.
And just reading some of the wikipedia descriptions of 'diagnosis', makes it obvious how hard they are trying to create 'hard boxes' to put people into - rather than 'feeling' into the condition itself, and understanding someone's emotional state.
But then again - it must be quite a thing as a Psychiatrist to deal with Clients who have these conditions on the level of Clinical Disorders.
/ /
re: the edit, yes - the condition I'm pointing to is traditionally the 'schizophrenic' one, but I find that term quite loaded, and almost judgemental.
so I tried to use something more 'neutral', in my eyes.
As someone who has now spent quite a bit of time with homeless people and drug users (not at all mutually exclusive), I totally get why psychiatrists just slap on labels and prescribe pills and injections. The psychiatrists are typically not magicians or spiritual seekers, just people who studied and got a degree. So they can't usually make those changes in consciousness which are really needed to heal the imbalanced individual, they can only change them on the physical level using chemicals. It takes a lot of love and personal commitment to bring someone out of their own maladaptive distortions when they get so bad.
Kind of makes me sad thinking of the really imbalanced homeless people I've met and abandoned now because the relationships were getting too intense and too attached, even though the individuals were getting better. A person like me with schizoidal tendencies makes a terrible therapist. I hope someone else picks up the balls that I dropped.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - AnthroHeart - 02-12-2019
I say taper down your dose of psych meds so you can confront your subconscious.
I am taking 1/2 my risperidone each day.
I want to SEE what my subconscious has to reveal. Not block it out.
I want to be a practicing shaman. Maybe not actively help people, but at least try.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - Plenum - 02-12-2019
hey - that's a beautiful post Mangus.
Cheers.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - flofrog - 02-13-2019
I have to say the same as Plenum. Thank you for this Plenum by the way.
When I read Mangus and Wolf I am both heartbroken at times, and always awed.
There was something I wanted to say about something from my childhood and I was not sure where to post it. I think I will do it here, if its ok.
I was twelve and one day I said something pretty bitter about life to my dad.
He sat next to me and looked at me and said, very gently, you know flo, you can be pessimistic if you wish. It is often much easier than to be an optimist But in fact you should be always an optimist it is hard at first but then you do it and you keep doing it, and the one day you are going to realize that you are happy to do it and that it has become easy. And then one day you will find that it is really the one way to be.
At the time I couldn't quite fathom what he meant and how that could really work. Then I tried and I kept thinking about him saying just dont stop. Today it's impossible for me to be pessimistic and I am sure it sounds perhaps false or like putting your head in the sand and yet it is how it feels right.
I am sure that I have had mental distorsions but in the end something of what he said really worked.
I also find optimism in Wolf and Mangus often.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - Tae - 02-17-2019
(02-12-2019, 11:56 AM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: I have heard that having schizophrenia would make me a more natural shaman, if I were to explore that path.First, the entire experience you have described sounds very scary.
I get excited about becoming one, but I don't know if I have what it takes.
I don't really have the love to help other people that I should.
I haven't been called to become a shaman, because that call nearly kills you.
You either become a shaman or die. And it hasn't been like that for me.
I am not a shaman and I am not schizophreniac (formerly "major depressive disorder" and "general anxiety" but I've been doing good!) though I guess some folks would probably say I SHOULD be diagnosed as one with some of the stuff that flows from my fingers. But that's not why I nabbed this. I quoted it because of the Call.
Yeah.
That. That whole "you can't get away from it" aspect of certain spiritual calls. Even if you convince yourself that everyone must have desires like these, it hounds you and if you go off path life gets bad. I know because I've been off. It sets me rocking. If I get back on the life path I know I'm supposed to have everything just sort of falls into place with ease and grace around me, providing ample opportunities to grow and share.
While I too have read that schizophrenia and shamanism are two sides, which is to say the functioning shaman and the becoming shaman, I assume that's not all schizophrenics. BUT... the average joe wouldn't be saying, "I want to be a practicing shaman and at least try help people." That longing is an aspect of the Call to be a spiritual healer or guide. Maybe you're not being called to shamanism specifically, as it's often passed down in a tribal/traditional setting, but still to something in this line, which is why it's not so strong it almost kills you, just so strong you remark upon it. Perhaps some observer of you would say, "Wow, what you went through would've killed me" though to you it's just what you swim in.
I've gone off path though and it has almost killed me.
The last remaining brick in my facade is shame. Oh, that bastard, embarrassment keeps my mouth shut and the truth silent, I escaped unconditioned to society's baloney in many ways but that one still got me. I'm not sure which chakra that is, I busted up some old painful bit of nastiness in my yellow ray, that's where my weak point is, the whole "personal power"... hah, and that's supposed to be this world's thing, but I was running on green ray mode from the getgo, I think. Probably a side effect of the "wanderer" thing...
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - Glow - 02-17-2019
(02-12-2019, 11:08 PM)MangusKhan Wrote: As someone who has now spent quite a bit of time with homeless people and drug users (not at all mutually exclusive), I totally get why psychiatrists just slap on labels and prescribe pills and injections. The psychiatrists are typically not magicians or spiritual seekers, just people who studied and got a degree. So they can't usually make those changes in consciousness which are really needed to heal the imbalanced individual, they can only change them on the physical level using chemicals. It takes a lot of love and personal commitment to bring someone out of their own maladaptive distortions when they get so bad.
Kind of makes me sad thinking of the really imbalanced homeless people I've met and abandoned now because the relationships were getting too intense and too attached, even though the individuals were getting better. A person like me with schizoidal tendencies makes a terrible therapist. I hope someone else picks up the balls that I dropped.
At least you gave them some portion of care they wouldn't have had without the time you could healthily provide.
And to say my experience. I work for the very rich trust fund types, or extremely "productive" rich types, and some middle income folks.
I have not yet met one that after a few years did not become transparent and show their own "mental illness".
Homeless or rich we all display these maladaptive distortions and it isn't the rich who have less, they just often can hide from it with endless distraction or use it for their own gain to manipulate others. There really should be no shame associated, life on earth is hard.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - Glow - 02-17-2019
(02-13-2019, 02:03 AM)flofrog Wrote: I have to say the same as Plenum. Thank you for this Plenum by the way.
When I read Mangus and Wolf I am both heartbroken at times, and always awed.
There was something I wanted to say about something from my childhood and I was not sure where to post it. I think I will do it here, if its ok.
I was twelve and one day I said something pretty bitter about life to my dad.
He sat next to me and looked at me and said, very gently, you know flo, you can be pessimistic if you wish. It is often much easier than to be an optimist But in fact you should be always an optimist it is hard at first but then you do it and you keep doing it, and the one day you are going to realize that you are happy to do it and that it has become easy. And then one day you will find that it is really the one way to be.
At the time I couldn't quite fathom what he meant and how that could really work. Then I tried and I kept thinking about him saying just dont stop. Today it's impossible for me to be pessimistic and I am sure it sounds perhaps false or like putting your head in the sand and yet it is how it feels right.
I am sure that I have had mental distorsions but in the end something of what he said really worked.
I also find optimism in Wolf and Mangus often.
Thanks for this flofrog. I raised myself and this is the kind of advice I needed, and still need so thank you for sharing.
I will take you and your fathers advice.
RE: Mental Illness, & Labels - Relax - 02-18-2019
good thread
want to say that sometimes 'distortions' must have medical assistance (as well as spiritual/emotional support /work)
I don't think 3D has the provision (as we are in physical/chemical/hormonal/ etc bodies) to have ONLY therapy based/chakra balancing/non medication healing for 'all' people.
- also sometimes medicine is not good for that persons 'state' - and can cause distortions
you're a very brave and very loving person IGW... and Mangus - you say you're a schizoidal type - but you do care too...