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+--- Thread: Jobs and Automation (/showthread.php?tid=14780)
Jobs and Automation - Plenum - 08-18-2017
is this something which threatens your industry?
or are you working in a creative industry (design, VR, writing) which is immune from an algorithm/computer/robot from taking over?
RE: Jobs and Automation - Spooner - 08-18-2017
(08-18-2017, 10:43 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: is this something which threatens your industry?
or are you working in a creative industry (design, VR, writing) which is immune from an algorithm/computer/robot from taking over?
I worked in machine learning/ AI. So I'm helping it happen. In 20 years it will begin to be a major disruption. Humans may have to move back to more traditional, communal living. This could be very positive opportunity for many. Obviously it will hurt some too. Be ready to experience change.
RE: Jobs and Automation - Plenum - 08-18-2017
thanks Spooner.
that 20 year time frame ... things will probably be unrecognisable.
After all, we've only have the 'publicly available internet' since about 1995, and that's only 22 years back. What a different world that digital disruption has had!
In terms of the automation/AI disruption ... self-driving cars ... no more retail jobs ... no more factory jobs (even in cheap labor countries) ... whole sectors of finance and accounting made redundant ...
RE: Jobs and Automation - Zach - 08-22-2017
self-driving cars...*sigh*...big no-no imo. Its not that it can't be done Right.
Just in this context, not diggin' it.
RE: Jobs and Automation - Spooner - 08-22-2017
One of the most significant trends of technology is the increasing complexity that it brings to society and the removal of a sense of autonomy from the general populace. As the world becomes more complex, fewer and fewer people feel as if they have a meaningful role in their environment. This results in a larger and larger portion of the populace who are "structurally alientated." You already see this at work with tribal communities who are displaced, disrupted, or alienated by the arrival of technology. Their culture, religion, language, customs, and even biology have been finely tuned to their way of life. Along comes technology and makes everything they have been doing seem trivial. It nullifies their sense of purpose by removing the relevance of their behavior toward survival. The same problem can be seen in inner city communities who have few real survival struggle (free food and free lodging is readily available) but do struggle to find a sense of control and purpose. They are surrounded by an environment increasing in complexity at a exponential rate and they have been left behind.
It's a problem not easily solved. Technology demands high competence and higher specialization. Increasingly it's difficult to be involved in technology development unless you're so adapted to a certain way of thinking that you are considered boarderline mentally defective (autism spectrum). Whereas before the alienated were marginal or from marginal groups (minorities, native populations etc) now more and more the alienated are the mainstream. Technology is making the average human irrelevant to the survival and continuation of society.
There are (3) options that I see.
(1) Accept that humans will become a pet class to the technological elite and eventually to the AIs themselves. Try to make this pet life as happy as possible. Inevitably humans that survive will become pet-like. Those who seek too much autonomy will become depressed and select themselves out.
(2) Re-invent human society by returning to tribal and radical localism. Since survival problems are largely solved, use the free time to develop meaningful connections that are not rooted in survival problems. This too will result in a change of humanity. Only some humans will be able to let go of survival problem and accept non-fear based existence rooted in creativity.
(3) engineer humanity themselves to be better suited to increasingly complex life. Risk losing our humanity and merging with the machines we created.
I'd prefer (2) but I don't expect many will be able to actually overcome the obstacles.
RE: Jobs and Automation - Ashim - 08-22-2017
(08-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: thanks Spooner.
that 20 year time frame ... things will probably be unrecognisable.
After all, we've only have the 'publicly available internet' since about 1995, and that's only 22 years back. What a different world that digital disruption has had!
In terms of the automation/AI disruption ... self-driving cars ... no more retail jobs ... no more factory jobs (even in cheap labor countries) ... whole sectors of finance and accounting made redundant ...
..unless of course you introduce Universal Basic Income.
This concept has been seriously considered for some time and has already garnered bipartisan support in many jurisdictions.
Released from 'existential Angst', the populus may turn to more globally beneficial pursuits when freed from the treadmill of 3rd density social requirements.
RE: Jobs and Automation - Glow - 08-22-2017
My job is safe but I figure I will be wanting to do something different by the time automation comes in 15/20 years. Or retire and volunteer if it's financial possible.
RE: Jobs and Automation - Glow - 08-22-2017
(08-22-2017, 02:13 AM)Zach Wrote: self-driving cars...*sigh*...big no-no imo. Its not that it can't be done Right.
Just in this context, not diggin' it.
A freinds brother says his tesla saved his life last week. It's pretty wrecked but facing a crash it just held steady and applied breaks where his impulse(thankfully slower) was to swerve which would have sent him into oncoming traffic.
Personally I can't update my phone without all sorts of problems so I wonder how that isn't going to be an issue with vehicles.
RE: Jobs and Automation - rva_jeremy - 08-22-2017
I think the big problem is whom the increased efficiencies of automation are going to benefit. On the plus side, we might finally be able to break the link between having a job and subsistence. On the down side, if ownership of the means of production continues to be concentrated in a few hands and there is no workforce to worry about, I could see some grave situations manifesting.
RE: Jobs and Automation - Spooner - 08-31-2017
(08-22-2017, 03:22 PM)Ashim Wrote:(08-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: thanks Spooner.
that 20 year time frame ... things will probably be unrecognisable.
After all, we've only have the 'publicly available internet' since about 1995, and that's only 22 years back. What a different world that digital disruption has had!
In terms of the automation/AI disruption ... self-driving cars ... no more retail jobs ... no more factory jobs (even in cheap labor countries) ... whole sectors of finance and accounting made redundant ...
..unless of course you introduce Universal Basic Income.
This concept has been seriously considered for some time and has already garnered bipartisan support in many jurisdictions.
Released from 'existential Angst', the populus may turn to more globally beneficial pursuits when freed from the treadmill of 3rd density social requirements.
Unfortunately universal basic income will only be functional if you incorporate some sort of eugenics or birth control. This transforms of the population into a powerless pet-class bred for docility and lack of ambition.
RE: Jobs and Automation - AnthroHeart - 08-31-2017
(08-31-2017, 10:52 AM)Spooner Wrote:(08-22-2017, 03:22 PM)Ashim Wrote:(08-18-2017, 02:47 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: thanks Spooner.
that 20 year time frame ... things will probably be unrecognisable.
After all, we've only have the 'publicly available internet' since about 1995, and that's only 22 years back. What a different world that digital disruption has had!
In terms of the automation/AI disruption ... self-driving cars ... no more retail jobs ... no more factory jobs (even in cheap labor countries) ... whole sectors of finance and accounting made redundant ...
..unless of course you introduce Universal Basic Income.
This concept has been seriously considered for some time and has already garnered bipartisan support in many jurisdictions.
Released from 'existential Angst', the populus may turn to more globally beneficial pursuits when freed from the treadmill of 3rd density social requirements.
Unfortunately universal basic income will only be functional if you incorporate some sort of eugenics or birth control. This transforms of the population into a powerless pet-class bred for docility and lack of ambition.
What if there are companies we would want to work for, because we respect their business models? And they do things like customer support and training that can't easily be replaced. And offering retreats out in nature.
RE: Jobs and Automation - Ashim - 08-31-2017
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What if there are companies we would want to work for, because we respect their business models? And they do things like customer support and training that can't easily be replaced. And offering retreats out in nature.
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Well the new business model must include the environment in its equations. This had been the missing factor - the cost is real.