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10 Specific Questions - SilentRey - 06-18-2016
Hi all, I'm new here. Just finished the first book of the Ra Material, four to go. I have 10 questions that I'm having trouble finding the answers for by keyword searching, so I think it may be easier to ask them to this forum
1. Are the Orion group's UFOs physical vehicles, like spacecraft, or thought-form "illusions" that aren't physical? As in, could an Orion group UFO crash and have its physical parts scattered about?
2. Do higher-density beings exist within higher dimensions? This also goes along with the question of: what is the reason behind higher-density beings being able to hide themselves or make themselves visible to us 3rd-density beings? (Could you explain that a bit?)
3. What are the specific goals/lessons to be learned of each individual density?
4. Ra mentions that there are 1-8 densities and that these make up an "octave" of densities. Does this mean there are higher "octaves" of densities with even further spiritual growth? I thought I read that in the 8th density you reunite/become the creator, so is this incorrect or does this mean each "octave" of densities is like a cycle of breaking down into many-ness from the initial creator then coming back together as the creator and/or becoming the creator. Does this mean that the creator multiplies or just repeats the cycle endlessly?
5. At what density is it impossible to proceed as a service-to-self entity? Or is it possible to fully procede down the path towards intelligent infinity as either service-to-self or service-to-others?
6. Does service-to-self require intentionally harming other people to please yourself, or does it just require not helping other people? For example: I'm the kind of person that is selfish in the sense that I focus on my wants/needs above others, but I don't intentionally harm other people and I wouldn't harm others to satisfy myself. I just wouldn't help others if it doesn't satisfy me. Would that make me service-to-self oriented? Or more neutrally-oriented which ultimate doesn't help our collective spiritual progress?
7. Is the Orion group intentionally attempting to help us in our spiritual evolution (through reinforcing/encouraging negative polarization) or are they only attempting to help themselves? Whereas the Confederation is intentionally trying to help us, which ultimately helps their spiritual evolution also, correct?
8. Does scientific determinism conflict with the Free Will found within the Law of One? Or is it that our souls/entities truly do have free will in higher densities/between incarnations but our human bodies/catalysts truly don't have free will? So it's just an illusion of free will during our human incarnations?
9. Is the "soul" incarnated in a person reflected in the person's personality? Or, I mean, could a soul be incarnated into an extremely positively oriented human and then in the next incarnation be incarnated into an extremely negatively oriented human? Or, is it the souls that are oriented as such and not the individual human personalities?
10. Let's say I became a celebrity and had a platform to "preach" or encourage millions of people to read the Law of One, and/or tried to convince people of its validity through logic. Would that be counter-intuitive to the purpose of the Ra Material? Is it better to keep it out of the mainstream so that the people who are meant to find it, and want to find it, find it? And so those who aren't meant to find it don't misinterpret? I wouldn't be proving the Law of One as absolute verifiable truth in this position, just spreading awareness of its existence to the general public.
I know these are kinda complex questions so I thank you for your answers in advance!
RE: 10 Specific Questions - APeacefulWarrior - 06-18-2016
I'll tackle most of these. The first couple are nearly impossible to answer because of how difficult it is describing higher-dimensional metaphysics in text. (But if someone else wants to try, go for it!)
Quote:3. What are the specific goals/lessons to be learned of each individual density?
2D - Self-awareness
3D - Love (of Self or of Others) and Self-actualization
4D - Patience, refinement of Love, beginnings of Wisdom
5D - Refinement of Wisdom, transitioning to S-M-C existence
6D - Abandonment of Polarity and embracing Unity / Oneness
Quote:4. Ra mentions that there are 1-8 densities and that these make up an "octave" of densities. Does this mean there are higher "octaves" of densities with even further spiritual growth?
Very likely, but not explicitly confirmed. According to Ra, there are entities called "Light Bringers" which exist "beyond the Octave" and who act as teachers/guides to 6Ds as well as regulating large-scale activities like Harvests. However, that's literally all he said on the subject. Anything beyond 7D is largely a mystery to him as well as to us.
Quote:5. At what density is it impossible to proceed as a service-to-self entity? Or is it possible to fully proceed down the path towards intelligent infinity as either service-to-self or service-to-others?
6th Density. It's impossible to embrace Oneness on a purely Negative path, so a changeover to Positive must happen at some point. However, 7D graduation requires abandoning polarity either way, so it's kind of a moot point.
Quote:6. Does service-to-self require intentionally harming other people to please yourself, or does it just require not helping other people?
There really aren't too many hard guidelines here. Both STO and STS can manifest in a lot of different ways. Also, it's about an energetic state as much as anything - positive entities are radiant; negatives are absorptive. However, broadly speaking, being STS does generally require drawing strength\power\energy from others while having little or no regard for their own well-being and, especially, for their free will.
Quote:7. Is the Orion group intentionally attempting to help us in our spiritual evolution (through reinforcing/encouraging negative polarization) or are they only attempting to help themselves? Whereas the Confederation is intentionally trying to help us, which ultimately helps their spiritual evolution also, correct?
Yes, and this gets at the distorted false dichotomy between STS and STO. You perceive correctly that both paths ultimately do embrace both aspects, they just have different focuses. This is part of the reason polarity is abandoned in 6D - the entity realizes the two paths are ultimately the same path. The main difference is one of perception. STO recognizes this back-and-forth mutual growth and embraces it, whereas STS is entirely focused on self-benefits and doesn't care about (or is even upset by) others benefiting as well.
Quote:8. Does scientific determinism conflict with the Free Will found within the Law of One? Or is it that our souls/entities truly do have free will in higher densities/between incarnations but our human bodies/catalysts truly don't have free will? So it's just an illusion of free will during our human incarnations?
Free Will does not mean unrestricted free will, it simply means the ability to choose between options which are available based on current circumstances. At least below 7D, one's available choices are ALWAYS in part determined by the actions of others, as well as karmic repercussions of their own earlier choices. It's like the classic Jack Benny joke: Even if someone has a gun to your head demanding "Your money or your life," you're still free to think it over.
Quote:9. Is the "soul" incarnated in a person reflected in the person's personality? Or, I mean, could a soul be incarnated into an extremely positively oriented human and then in the next incarnation be incarnated into an extremelt negatively oriented human? Or, is it the souls that are oriented as such and not the individual human personalities?
As an entity grows in self-empowerment and Wisdom, their ability to influence/dictate the starting conditions of their incarnations grows as well. While it seems very unlikely one would deliberately choose to do this, a positive entity COULD probably choose a set of conditions in their early life -like say, extreme poverty, terrible parents, sexual abuse, etc- which would make it highly likely that their incarnation would result in a negative orientation as they grow up. So their "soul" would be positive initially, but could then potentially flip negative during the course of the incarnation.
(Ra mentions this happening unintentionally at least once with a pair of 4D wanderers.)
Quote:10. Let's say I became a celebrity and had a platform to "preach" or encourage millions of people to read the Law of One, and/or tried to convince people of its validity through logic...
That would be 100% your decision to make, based on your own call to service and the wisdom you could deploy in planning and spreading your message. Ra put no restrictions on how his teachings could be used, and it would have been impossible for him to even try. However, you would still be responsible karmically for the results of this effort, good or bad, which could have significant long-term effects on your own development.
...
And now, brace yourself for a bunch of replies saying totally different things and disagreeing with what I said.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - SilentRey - 06-18-2016
Thank you! Answered most of the questions perfectly. I do have a few follow-up questions though...
Quote:Free Will does not mean unrestricted free will, it simply means the ability to choose between options which are available based on current circumstances. At least below 7D, one's available choices are ALWAYS in part determined by the actions of others, as well as karmic repercussions of their own earlier choices. It's like the classic Jack Benny joke: Even if someone has a gun to your head demanding "Your money or your life," you're still free to think it over.
Well scientific determinism says that we truly don't have a choice between, say in your example, giving the money to the mugger or refusing and getting shot. Determinism says our choices are purely [complex versions of] cause-and-effect, and all human actions, and thoughts, are determined by the laws of nature. That our consciousness/mind does not ever have choices, just experiences what seems to be the ability to choose. Would this absolute determinism conflict with the Law of One, in that it basically says our souls/(what is the proper term?) are not at all in control/make no choices during our physical incarnation? Basically, assuming that this determinism is correct, then our souls would just be along for the ride alongside the human body, where the physical mind makes all the choices and our souls just experience. Does this conflict? The one solution I have to this paradox would be if our souls have true free will, in between incarnations, to choose which human to incarnate into, knowing through this determinism what that human will experience in its lifetime (and THAT is the true expression of free will by our souls) but I'm not sure whether this solution contradicts the Law of One/Ra Material explanations or not. This is all assuming that determinism is true, of course, and it is definitely debatable to different degrees.
Quote:As an entity grows in self-empowerment and Wisdom, their ability to influence/dictate the starting conditions of their incarnations grows as well. While it seems very unlikely one would deliberately choose to do this, a positive entity COULD probably choose a set of conditions in their early life -like say, extreme poverty, terrible parents, sexual abuse, etc- which would make it highly likely that their incarnation would result in a negative orientation as they grow up. So their "soul" would be positive initially, but could then potentially flip negative during the course of the incarnation.
1. When you say that an entity has the ability to influence/dictate the starting conditions of their incarnations, do you mean that they choose from a pool of potential lives to live and pick which one suits their intentions best, or can they actually be like (in a less superficial way) "I want my human to be a red-head, write a book at age 12, learn the Law of One at age 34..." etc.? The choosing from the pool of potential lives would also be able to coexist with determinism, but the molding/creating the qualities of their incarnated human entity would contradict determinism.
2. You mention that a positively-oriented entity could incarnate into a being that has an overall negative-orientation. So, how is the orientation of an entity determined really? I mean, if I incarnated 100 times and 80 of those times I was incarnated into a STO human, then I would probably be a positively-oriented entity correct? If I then incarnated into an extremely STS human, could that potentially sway me into being a negatively-oriented entity? However, I assume that STS and STO entites would, most of the time, choose to incarnate into humans with the same orientation as them.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - APeacefulWarrior - 06-18-2016
(06-18-2016, 07:13 AM)SilentRey Wrote: Well scientific determinism says that we truly don't have a choice between, say in your example, giving the money to the mugger or refusing and getting shot. Determinism says our choices are purely [complex versions of] cause-and-effect, and all human actions, and thoughts, are determined by the laws of nature. That our consciousness/mind does not ever have choices, just experiences what seems to be the ability to choose. Would this absolute determinism conflict with the Law of One, in that it basically says our souls/(what is the proper term?) are not at all in control/make no choices during our physical incarnation? Basically, assuming that this determinism is correct, then our souls would just be along for the ride alongside the human body, where the physical mind makes all the choices and our souls just experience. Does this conflict? The one solution I have to this paradox would be if our souls have true free will, in between incarnations, to choose which human to incarnate into, knowing through this determinism what that human will experience in its lifetime (and THAT is the true expression of free will by our souls) but I'm not sure whether this solution contradicts the Law of One/Ra Material explanations or not. This is all assuming that determinism is true, of course, and it is definitely debatable to different degrees.
I suppose if you're looking at the most totally absolutist form of mechanical determinism, Ra's teachings contradict it. A certain level of true self-determinism in one's decisions\behaviors is assumed, at least from the subjective standpoint. From a hypothetical 8D "objective view," things are a lot different. (see below)
But that said, even most scientists don't often take determinism that far, especially since it means either ignoring quantum uncertainty or assuming it has no impact whatsoever on human lives.
Quote:1. When you say that an entity has the ability to influence/dictate the starting conditions of their incarnations, do you mean that they choose from a pool of potential lives to live and pick which one suits their intentions best, or can they actually be like (in a less superficial way) "I want my human to be a red-head, write a book at age 12, learn the Law of One at age 34..." etc.? The choosing from the pool of potential lives would also be able to coexist with determinism, but the molding/creating the qualities of their incarnated human entity would contradict determinism.
Um... OK, this gets a bit complex. Because what we would call "quantum realities" start coming into play, as well as the nature of Oneness.
From the POV of The Creator, insofar as it can be imagined, ALL things and ALL possibilities and ALL realities are happening and have already happened, simultaneously. From the point of view of an individual human, they are making decisions and guiding the paths of their lives. From the highest perspective, every single possible variation in that path already exists and, likewise, there's some variation on that entity experiencing it.
So it's a bit like crawling an infinite web, where every junction represents a choice. Each individual entity has a choice of which strands to follow next, but across all infinity in incarnations, every path is eventually explored.
And as an entity moves through 5D and 6D, they increasingly have access to the quantum web, and more power to influence which paths they go down. So while the ability to choose an incarnation might be minimal among 4Ds, who would only be able to choose a life in very broad strokes, higher-D entities can add a lot of twists to their incarnations, such as making agreements with other entities to all incarnate at once in various relationship configurations. The resulting incarnated form still has the ability to determine which quantum strands it follows, but their originating higher selves can tilt the odds heavily in favor of certain outcomes/paths.
Although they probably could not get so specific as pre-determining years that certain events happen, like your example. They could, however, contrive to keep arranging "coincidences" so that every so often their incarnation encounters the LOO, in hopes they'll eventually embrace it.
Quote:2. You mention that a positively-oriented entity could incarnate into a being that has an overall negative-orientation. So, how is the orientation of an entity determined really? I mean, if I incarnated 100 times and 80 of those times I was incarnated into a STO human, then I would probably be a positively-oriented entity correct? If I then incarnated into an extremely STS human, could that potentially sway me into being a negatively-oriented entity? However, I assume that STS and STO entites would, most of the time, choose to incarnate into humans with the same orientation as them.
The orientation -or polarity- of an entity is fundamentally energetic in nature. Tendencies towards STO or STS behavior then result from those energetic polarities, which are a very fundamental aspect of an entity's beingness. For those of higher densities, determining the polarity of a particular entity is as clear-cut as the polarity of magnets or filtered sunlight is to us.
Unfortunately, it's almost impossibly difficult for us in 3D land to know the polarity of others with certainty. (sometimes not even our own)
And the effect of incarnations upon an entity or "soul" is basically cumulative. Every life adds information and changes an entity in one way or another. A Positive entity who, for whatever reason, has decided to go explore the Negative side could utilize incarnations to do this, but it might require several lives to de-polarize themselves enough to be able to flip over. Or they might have a single massively traumatic life that does so in one incarnation, but such rapid change can easily cause "damage" that takes a long time to heal. The same would be true for a Negative attempting to turn Positive. However, this apparently becomes easier to do as the entity grows, and (I suspect) at later stages of 6D they can probably choose polarity at will.
Plus, again, this usually requires deliberate pre-planning. Ra doesn't discuss the odds, but I get the impression that unplanned or "accidental" changes of polarity are pretty rare. Generally an entity will continue being whatever polarity they start out as unless they find a good reason to change over.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Bring4th_Austin - 06-18-2016
Some of my thoughts independent of the discussion up to this point:
Quote:1. Are the Orion group's UFOs physical vehicles, like spacecraft, or thought-form "illusions" that aren't physical? As in, could an Orion group UFO crash and have its physical parts scattered about?
In sessions 51 and 52, Don and Ra have a discussion about the different methods of travel around the universe, the two primary means being by "thought" or using technology, what Ra calls a "slingshot" effect. In that discussion, Don asks which method the Orion group uses, Ra says:
"The fourth-density negative uses the slingshot gravitic light effect, perhaps 80% of its membership being unable to master the disciplines necessary for alternate methods of travel. In fifth-density negative approximately 50% at some point gain the necessary discipline to use thought to accomplish travel. As the sixth density approaches, the negative orientation is thrown into confusion and little travel is attempted. What travel is done is perhaps 73% of light/thought."52.5
I'm not sure exactly how this technology would correlate to what we would understand as physical vehicles that could crash, but it does seem that they do use physical technology. The whole discussion is quite interesting as Don manages to connect the two types of travel to spiritual evolution.
Quote:2. Do higher-density beings exist within higher dimensions? This also goes along with the question of: what is the reason behind higher-density beings being able to hide themselves or make themselves visible to us 3rd-density beings? (Could you explain that a bit?)
I think it depends on what you mean by "dimension." Ra seems to sometimes use the terms dimension and density interchangeably. But physicists use the term dimension to mean physical dimensions (in 3 dimensions, there is an x, y, z spatial axis, in the 4th there is another, so on and so on). I'm not sure if there is any correlation between this type of dimension and higher densities, but it doesn't make much sense to my mind to have ever increasing spatial axes as we go up in density. But you could say that densities are, in a sense, their own dimensions.
For the second question, this is mostly peculation. Ra seems to describe higher densities having their own set of parameters, from our perspective, completely unique and independent space/time aspects. Starting in 4th density, the disciplines of the personality are beginning to be developed enough to understand how to distinguish between these different planes of experience and also understand the necessity to "hide" for the sake developing 3rd density entities.
Quote:3. What are the specific goals/lessons to be learned of each individual density?
Each density being a striving towards the higher, the lessons seem to be to begin to grasp the heart of the next density. Then in the next density, that understanding is refined and the next density is then grasped for. So you could say that each density might have two types of lessons, those which it grasped in the previous density and now refine and those which it must now grasp for moving to the next density. The following would be those things they must begin to grasp:
First: "growth rather than dissolution or random change." 13.17
Second: "self-consciousness or self-awareness." 13.21
Third: "the ways of love." 82.15
Fourth: wisdom, light or "to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. ... It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light." 47.6
Fifth: unity or to "consciously accept the honor/duty of the Law of One." 16.41
Sixth: To balance the previous two densities' lessons or "to unify wisdom and compassion." 59.3
Seventh: Timelessness, or to see that "there exists only the present" and "awareness of the Creator. In the Creator is all that there is." 16.22 & 23.
It should be noted that Ra said, "To speak of that which sixth-density social memory complexes labor within in order to advance is at best misprision of plain communication for much is lost in transmission of concept from density to density, and the discussion of sixth density is inevitably distorted greatly." So all of that is probably a very poor explanation of what each density entails.
Quote:4. Ra mentions that there are 1-8 densities and that these make up an "octave" of densities. Does this mean there are higher "octaves" of densities with even further spiritual growth? I thought I read that in the 8th density you reunite/become the creator, so is this incorrect or does this mean each "octave" of densities is like a cycle of breaking down into many-ness from the initial creator then coming back together as the creator and/or becoming the creator. Does this mean that the creator multiplies or just repeats the cycle endlessly?
Seems like it.
"However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities." 28.15
In 27.13, Ra likens the process to a heartbeat, which I see as a cyclical process. In the final experience of our octave, it's likely we return to the Creator, where the concept of "next" or "previous" or even "cycle" hold no sway as it is a timeless state. From our perspective in third density, where we perceive time, we are moving through octaves to the next. We probably cannot even fathom the experience or understanding upon the final merging with the Creator.
Quote:5. At what density is it impossible to proceed as a service-to-self entity? Or is it possible to fully procede down the path towards intelligent infinity as either service-to-self or service-to-others?
"In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity, which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned." 78.25
In a sense, both polarities are abandoned. I don't fully understand this. But it is much easier for the positive polarity to go through this process as their path has already, up to this point, involved the type of grasping for unity that we are confronted with in sixth density, a confrontation which throws off the negative polarity and stops them in their path.
Quote:6. Does service-to-self require intentionally harming other people to please yourself, or does it just require not helping other people? For example: I'm the kind of person that is selfish in the sense that I focus on my wants/needs above others, but I don't intentionally harm other people and I wouldn't harm others to satisfy myself. I just wouldn't help others if it doesn't satisfy me. Would that make me service-to-self oriented? Or more neutrally-oriented which ultimate doesn't help our collective spiritual progress?
It depends on what you mean by "harm." In my understanding, a negatively oriented entity would not necessarily harm others simply for the sake of it (though if they find enjoyment in it, they wouldn't have qualms with it). However, the discipline of self-service polarization would require an attitude which attempts to find a way for all of creation to be brought under its service through control in some way. Other entities are simply another aspect of creation which much be approached with the attitude that if it is there, there must be some way for it to serve the negative entity. A positive entity might attempt understand the lessons to be learned through catalyst with other-self and attempt to accept that which is experienced, hoping to serve the other and allow both entities their sovereignty of their path. A negative entity would be only concerned about what may be gained from the other-self without consideration of serving it.
At the point where this attitude becomes harvestable, it's likely that this involves control in many different ways. It may not be violent as we understand it. There may not be physical harm. It may even seem to be a happy situation. But there is an attempt at control rather than acceptance, concern for the self rather than both selves. And I would say that in many situations, this would probably be harmful to the entity being controlled in some way. But there are situations where explicit harm may not be happen, such as in establishing a hierarchical elite-based organization where all are aware and compliant with the hierarchy.
Quote:7. Is the Orion group intentionally attempting to help us in our spiritual evolution (through reinforcing/encouraging negative polarization) or are they only attempting to help themselves? Whereas the Confederation is intentionally trying to help us, which ultimately helps their spiritual evolution also, correct?
I would say that they are attempting to help in the spiritual evolution of those who call for service-to-self information.
Questioner: Then we have crusaders from Orion coming to this planet for mind control purposes. How do they do this?
Ra: As all, they follow the Law of One observing free will. Contact is made with those who call. Those then upon the planetary sphere act much as do you to disseminate the attitudes and philosophy of their particular understanding of the Law of One which is service to self. These become the elite. Through these, the attempt begins to create a condition whereby the remainder of the planetary entities are enslaved by their own free will.8.14
Those who wish to pursue the service-to-self path would likely become the "elite," who probably would still be under the control of the higher entities. But then their attitude towards those who are not seeking service to self is different, seeking "enslavement," causing them to serve the elite in some way without really evolving upon their own spiritual path.
There is also the case of Orion attempting to detune and interrupt channels offering positive information. Jim recently said in a discussion on the podcast something that I had not considered: that this is because those who successfuly find their path in service to others will mean less entities to enslave. The entities on the positive path may become aware of their process of evolution and more self-aware of the ways in which they may be enslaved.
But the key here is your word "intentionally." It's highly unlikely that the Orion group has the desire that others not on their path develop spiritually. But their actions can be a great catalyst for such evolution. What they do could be seen as help in a roundabout way.
Quote:8. Does scientific determinism conflict with the Free Will found within the Law of One? Or is it that our souls/entities truly do have free will in higher densities/between incarnations but our human bodies/catalysts truly don't have free will? So it's just an illusion of free will during our human incarnations?
I don't know if it is relevant, but Ra does say that "The seeming contradictions of determinism and free will melt when it is accepted that there is such a thing as true simultaneity." (70.11)
Peaking at your understanding of scientific determinism, I would say that yes, it is at-odds with Ra's teachings. The type of determinism you describe relies on the idea that the mind is a complete result of the physical mechanics of the brain. This is not what Ra describes, and there are aspects of our mind that are beyond the physical aspects. Certainly our physical bodies and reality have effects on our behavior and attitudes, but individuals certainly have free will independent of the mechanical cause and effect described by this type of determinism, according to Ra.
The idea that free will is more primal than physical mechanics is something at least somewhat considered in the scientific community though: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/do-subatomic-particles-have-free-will
Quote:9. Is the "soul" incarnated in a person reflected in the person's personality? Or, I mean, could a soul be incarnated into an extremely positively oriented human and then in the next incarnation be incarnated into an extremelt negatively oriented human? Or, is it the souls that are oriented as such and not the individual human personalities?
The idea of a "personality" is probably a muddy one, but it's likely somewhat of a mix between the two. Ra says:
"In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of a mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex.
In other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distillation of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience." 30.4
So a lot of our experience of our "selves" seems to be an illusion, but the "heart" or "essence" of ourselves, the distillations and biases, remain. It's probably just the surface aspects which fall away. So it depends on what someone considers a "personality," and how much of these more transient aspects are considered significant to the personality.
Whether an entity would be extremely positively oriented or extremely negatively oriented, I think these would be a result of previous bias. The pre-incarnative planning may involve programming certain catalyst, events, or circumstances to attempt to move that bias in one direction or another, but it will be the biases brought into the incarnation that hold sway over how the entity may respond to that. It's like a sort of momentum.
But it's a momentum that can be overturned by free will at any time. Ra described wanderers who incarnated on Venus while they were in third density who ended up polarizing negatively despite their plans going into the incarnation. I speculate that their spiritual power was a large bias they carried into the incarnation, but thanks to the free will in response to the circumstances they were in, the spiritual power ended up getting pointed in the other direction. I don't know how often this happens.
Typically, if an entity has chosen the positive or negative path, the life circumstances will attempt to refine that path. This may sometimes involve programming seeming "negative" biases for positive lessons. For instance, a person may program a tendency towards self-anger in order to utilize this catalyst and balance it to self-compassion, thus offering that distilled bias to the overall soul.
Quote:10. Let's say I became a celebrity and had a platform to "preach" or encourage millions of people to read the Law of One, and/or tried to convince people of its validity through logic. Would that be counter-intuitive to the purpose of the Ra Material? Is it better to keep it out of the mainstream so that the people who are meant to find it, and want to find it, find it? And so those who aren't meant to find it don't misinterpret? I wouldn't be proving the Law of One as absolute verifiable truth in this position, just spreading awareness of its existence to the general public.
"Each entity will receive the opportunity that each needs. This information source-beingness does not have uses in the life-experience complex of each of those among your peoples who seek. Thus the advertisement is general and not designed to indicate the searching out of any particular material, but only to suggest the noumenal aspect of the illusion." 8.1
"We, ourselves, do not feel an urgency for this information to be widely disseminated. It is enough that we have made it available to three, four, or five. This is extremely ample reward, for if one of these obtains fourth-density understanding due to this catalyst then we shall have fulfilled the Law of One in the distortion of service.
We encourage a dispassionate attempt to share information without concern for numbers or quick growth among others. That you attempt to make this information available is, in your term, your service. The attempt, if it reaches one, reaches all." 17.2
"The audience brought about by Orion-type publicity [referring to UFO flaps] is not seeded by seniority of vibration to a great extent. The audiences receiving teach/learnings without stimulus from publicity will be more greatly oriented towards illumination. Therefore, forget you the counting." 48.5
I don't think attempting to convince people of its validity would necessarily be helpful, and may be detrimental, unless there are specific inquiries and someone is genuinely interested. Spreading awareness with as little convincing as possible would probably be helpful, increasing the chances that someone who would find the information useful would find it. But it's a tricky situation. How can one spread awareness without influence of perception? It's tough.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Cyclops - 06-18-2016
All of these exact questions are answered by continuing further into the Ra material, Don follows more or less your exact question intentions. Previous posts do a great job, and I just want to throw some extra quotes on one of the questions as a taste, some quotes might be duplicated here so sorry about that.
Question 4:
Quote:This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion.
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. This is basically correct. However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities.
Quote:
81.18 Questioner: Why does Ra not have any knowledge of that which was prior to the beginning of this octave?
Ra: I am Ra. Let us compare octaves to islands. It may be that the inhabitants of an island are not alone upon a planetary sphere, but if an ocean-going vehicle in which one may survive has not been invented, true knowledge of other islands is possible only if an entity comes among the islanders and says, “I am from elsewhere.” This is a rough analogy. However, we have evidence of this sort, both of previous creation and creation to be, as we in the stream of space/time and time/space view these apparently non-simultaneous events.
Quote:78.15 Questioner: Then the first experiences, as you say, were in monochrome. Now, was the concept of the seven densities of vibration with the evolutionary process taking place in the discrete densities— was that carried through from the previous octave?
Ra: I am Ra. To the limits of our knowledge, which are narrow, the ways of the octave are without time; that is, there are seven densities in each creation infinitely.
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - sjel - 06-18-2016
(06-18-2016, 05:59 PM)Cyclops Wrote:Quote:This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion.
so are there beings from our octave of experience that descend to the octave below to aid it in its Logos completion? or is the crossing of octave boundaries unique to the octave above ours??
RE: 10 Specific Questions - SilentRey - 06-18-2016
Awesome responses. So informative. This is seriously the best internet forum ever lol.
I'll come back with 10 more questions after I finish book 2
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Verum Occultum - 06-18-2016
(06-18-2016, 09:40 PM)SilentRey Wrote: Awesome responses. So informative. This is seriously the best internet forum ever lol.
I'll come back with 10 more questions after I finish book 2
Thank you for asking all the questions, which were really good by the way. I am genuinely joyful for you.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Cyclops - 06-18-2016
(06-18-2016, 08:54 PM)sjel Wrote:(06-18-2016, 05:59 PM)Cyclops Wrote:Quote:This octave density of which we have spoken is both omega and alpha, the spiritual mass of the infinite universes becoming one central sun or Creator once again. Then is born a new universe, a new infinity, a new Logos which incorporates all that the Creator has experienced of Itself. In this new octave there are also those who wander. We know very little across the boundary of octave except that these beings come to aid our octave in its Logos completion.
so are there beings from our octave of experience that descend to the octave below to aid it in its Logos completion? or is the crossing of octave boundaries unique to the octave above ours??
I don't personally remember seeing anything like that where there was any mention of wandering to the previous octave, I might be dead wrong but think the Ra material and all the sessions in the l/l library do not speak of this.
This is interesting though, I don't know what to make of it. It might hint at the previous octave lacking sentience but really who knows...
Quote:78.13 Questioner: Then we have, at the beginning of this galactic evolution, an archetypical mind that is the product of the previous octave which this galaxy then uses and acts upon under the first distortion of free will to evolve the total experience of this galaxy. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is quite correct.
78.14 Questioner: But, in doing this, there was at the center of the galaxy, the lack of knowledge or the lack of concept of possibility of extending the first distortion, so as to allow for what we have experienced as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?
Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service to self and service to others.
A funny thought also, if density 8 of a previous octave is density 1 of the current octave and if first density is the elements and inanimate objects such as rock, metal etc and since we are aware of them what are we then? lol
RE: 10 Specific Questions - sjel - 06-19-2016
(06-18-2016, 11:21 PM)Cyclops Wrote: I don't personally remember seeing anything like that where there was any mention of wandering to the previous octave, I might be dead wrong but think the Ra material and all the sessions in the l/l library do not speak of this.
This is interesting though, I don't know what to make of it. It might hint at the previous octave lacking sentience but really who knows...
hooooooh man, just hit me how the concept of service to self and service to others is both introduced and unified within our octave. so the next octave will explore the infinite possibilities of a new, more complex division of polarity - one that is as unique and more complex than STS/STO! and then it too will become unified, only to move on to an even more complex exploration of polarity!
so far we only know of mover/moved and sts/sto, WHAT NEXT?!? haha, this whole "one original thought" thing was a good idea, Creator...
edit: what if this octave is actually a single note in a Large Octave - and the concept of polarity itself is the exploration of this Large Octave??? relating this to the densities, our "octave" might then be "third density"' of Large Octave (given that everything is a microcosm of the One Infinite Creator). oh wow. and of course this is an infinite regression, so the Large Octave's goal is actually a subdensity itself... we keep thinking of the octaves as an infinite line, unidirectional, but no sir, that's not it at all.
this whole visual thought-entity has become too large for my mind to handle, and i also realize that this must be a severely distorted view of the octave system, for if Ra knows little of the preceding and following octaves, Ra who has had millions of years to contemplate this, then we truly know virtually nothing. im grateful for thoughts like these, however. it's great to not know what yourSelf truly is.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Illamasqua - 06-19-2016
Most of this has already been quite adequately answered, but perhaps some of it may be expanded upon somewhat
(06-18-2016, 03:29 AM)SilentRey Wrote: 1. Are the Orion group's UFOs physical vehicles, like spacecraft, or thought-form "illusions" that aren't physical? As in, could an Orion group UFO crash and have its physical parts scattered about?
Short answer: yes. Bear in mind, however, that all things within Creation are illusory in nature, whether physical or meta(non)physical. The key to this somewhat advanced understanding lies in the concept of that luminiferous material known as light. This may be further elaborated upon if you'd like, but suffice it to say most UFO sightings/accounts are of a physical nature.
Quote:2. Do higher-density beings exist within higher dimensions? This also goes along with the question of: what is the reason behind higher-density beings being able to hide themselves or make themselves visible to us 3rd-density beings? (Could you explain that a bit?)
To avoid misunderstandings, we should leave the concept of "dimensions" strictly to spatial measurements regarding length, breadth, depth and/or height. In this sense, higher-D entities basically exist within the same dimensions as any lower-D entity—just as a lowly 2D earthworm exists in the same dimension as a 3D human-being, even if their environmental circumstances prevent them from ever meeting/crossing each other (in fact, the worm will hardly ever notice the human even if the human were to be standing right next to it). Their dimensional awareness, however, is what may differ quite significantly. Perhaps this is what you mean. Each density can "see" more than the previous: more depth, more detail, more nuance, etc.
As to the reason behind *how* HD entities are able to hide their presence from 3D, this lies in a combination of factors, broadly speaking:
a. 4D entity's level of awareness grants it certain mental faculties and technological advancements over the 3D entity (similar as to how 3D entities can monitor or capture 2D entities in ways that those animal/plants entities wouldn't be aware of, or wouldn't see it coming beforehand). 5D entities are then one evolutionary quantum leap beyond that, and so on. The higher the density, the easier to "disappear" from a 3D observer. They are literally thousands and even millions of years ahead in evolutionary terms. Chew on that for a moment.
b. Another significant advantage all HD entities have (and "exploit") is that 3D is *veiled* and they are not (the veil in mind being only applied post-Creation to 3D by Logoi as an experimental novelty to enrich experience). This allows them to work in sub-conscious levels in ways that the 3D entity wouldn't remember or be aware of upon a conscious/surface level due to its veil in mind. A prime example of this is the phenomenon of alien abduction. "Now you see me, now you don't."
Quote:3. What are the specific goals/lessons to be learned of each individual density?
1. Raw beingess leading to manifestation/materialization (shaping of planetary sphere by elemental forces) through random change and dissolution.
2. Genetic/cellular structurization and reproduction/replication/multiplication of bodily complex, or population/propagation of species (a.k.a. "life").
3. Self-awareness/individualization, abstract thought (awakening of spirituality, tool-making ability, culture, religion, architecture, music, etc, etc) and realization of choice (responsibility).
4. Love in the sense of identification with active, kinetic, dynamic principle of Creation and therefore empathy/compassion towards entities which have not yet fully discovered (and/or struggle to grasp) the nature of this creative principle.
5. Wisdom, self-illumination, discovery of one's own direct, personal relationship/identity with Creator as an individuated entity, and the laws/ by which the Universe is governed (it's geometrical structure, principles of manifestation, the math, the "dance," etc).
6. Unification in the most literal sense, where previously separated entities truly become one melded/fused complex or entity/mass by its latter or final stages.
7. Moving beyond history, memory or sense of identity except as awareness of Creator in most pure or less distorted sense before dissolution/re-absorption into Intelligent Infinity once again (through black hole).
Quote:4. Ra mentions that there are 1-8 densities and that these make up an "octave" of densities. Does this mean there are higher "octaves" of densities with even further spiritual growth? I thought I read that in the 8th density you reunite/become the creator, so is this incorrect or does this mean each "octave" of densities is like a cycle of breaking down into many-ness from the initial creator then coming back together as the creator and/or becoming the creator. Does this mean that the creator multiplies or just repeats the cycle endlessly?
Personally, I find it inaccurate to refer to the 8th density as a "density," especially considering the fact that it also functions as 1st density in its "latter stages" (somewhat of a confusing statement in and of itself). But perhaps I'm biased, as I see no 8th color band in the rainbow or an 8th note after do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti (that isn't do or #1 again), so I stick to 7
So no, I wouldn't call Intelligent Infinity (or its Logoi/creative foci) a "density," although I do understand the analogy. Similarly, I wouldn't call it a "higher" octave either, but merely a new cycle of 7's. And while this one cycle (our current) is unfolding, an infinite number of other "septenary" cycles would be simultaneously occurring at all times. Meanwhile, Intelligent Infinity is always there, completely unmoved or unchanged, perfectly whole and absolute, while infinite Logoi/Thoughts (with their Creations) arise from Intelligent Infinity's "unpotentiatedness" and coalesce back into it continuously. Only Creation or illusion-bound entities experience the passage of space/time illusory constructs.
Quote:5. At what density is it impossible to proceed as a service-to-self entity? Or is it possible to fully procede down the path towards intelligent infinity as either service-to-self or service-to-others?
6th density. Remember the so-called "negative" path did not exist before the veil was implemented in 3rd density. It was not even imagined/conceived of. It was more of an "accidental surprise." Interesting/attractive as it may be, however, it is still the path of falsity. Because of it, it must voluntarily yield/give in to truth (reality) at some point, and that point usually begins to approach late 5D with the prospect of 6th-density graduation, where the negative entity is thrown into "confusion" and makes an instantaneous re-polarization, as it were.
Whereas the "positive" path—though defined in great part by frictions with the "negative" path post-veil—was/is in fact the *original* path before the veil.
If you ask me, Ra was perhaps being a little bit too "politically correct" to portray them as complimentary equals, when evidently that is not the case. This doesn't make the "negative" an unviable path, however. Either way, both paths will end in the same 6th-density "positive" state of unity or "unfiicatedness."
Quote:6. Does service-to-self require intentionally harming other people to please yourself, or does it just require not helping other people? For example: I'm the kind of person that is selfish in the sense that I focus on my wants/needs above others, but I don't intentionally harm other people and I wouldn't harm others to satisfy myself. I just wouldn't help others if it doesn't satisfy me. Would that make me service-to-self oriented? Or more neutrally-oriented which ultimate doesn't help our collective spiritual progress?
Proper "service-to-self" polarization would imply nearly 100% dedication towards self. So no, most entities that appear "negative" are typically *confused* in their orientation or simply less than sufficiently "positive." Bear in mind as long as 51% is dedicated towards serving others, one can still graduate "positively" with 49% service-to-self (hence why some 4D+ aliens are a little "grey" in their methods, yet they are still "positive").
(FYI: Ra's percentages were taken from Oahspe, also produced by some branch/group of the Confederation a little bit prior/concurrently in the early 80s. Same as with several other concepts, such as that of densities or Orion Crusaders literally being presented verbatim in much earlier books during the 50's "Flying Saucer/Space Brothers" era. Merely pointing this out to offer some background: the Confederation had been active for decades before the Ra contact and many concepts found in the Ra Material were introduced several years earlier—which only makes it all the more fascinating!)
As to the question of intentional harm, the short answer is: yes. It is not as much as the infliction of pain as it is about the psychological/emotional magnification of separation, however. Pain is a sign of separation (i.e. it hurts to go against or be ripped apart from the underlying oneness/interconnectedness of all things because, in truth, all things are quite literally the One Infinite Creator). In order to be polarized in the negative sense, one must consciously, deliberately maximize this separation from others (i.e. make it blatantly obvious). And what better means to achieve this than by the pain-inflicting method (physically, psychologically or otherwise)?
In effect: to feel no empathy/compassion for the afflicted (especially a deliberately tortured subject or group of subjects) would be an excellent sign of separation. This is especially helpful in the early (3D) phases of negative polarization.
One which feels nothing for another, can then glorify its own "Godhood" without reservation. This is difficult enough to understand (for a positive entity) without proper experience/acquaintance with "negativity."
Quote:7. Is the Orion group intentionally attempting to help us in our spiritual evolution (through reinforcing/encouraging negative polarization) or are they only attempting to help themselves? Whereas the Confederation is intentionally trying to help us, which ultimately helps their spiritual evolution also, correct?
Yes and no. It would go against the Orion group's agenda to intentionally attempt to positively help a 3D civilization (though they'd still aid those who wish to harvest negatively). However, the fact is no matter what the intention or path of service/seeking, the Creator is ultimately only interacting with Itself, so it's impossible not to serve the Creator. Thus, the Orion group "helps" indirectly or unknowingly.
Bear in mind, however, that the extent of how much sway they may hold upon the 3D population is entirely dependent on upon the population itself. That is to say: how lukewarm/confused humanity is in terms of its polarization. This indifference or lack of care gives Orion some serious inroads. Which is akin to "asking" for it.
Quote:8. Does scientific determinism conflict with the Free Will found within the Law of One? Or is it that our souls/entities truly do have free will in higher densities/between incarnations but our human bodies/catalysts truly don't have free will? So it's just an illusion of free will during our human incarnations?
Freewill, as you describe, is only possible within some illusory context of separation. Ultimately, however, there is only one will: the Creator's desire to know Itself. The paradox arises when an illusion-bound entity's freewill (of any entity capable/aware of such) conflicts with another (happens all the time), which leads to "frictions" of freewill, and some sort of limitation of such, and some sort of ensuing experience.
Within an illusory context (Creation), however; yes, you very much have freewill (in fact, mostly thanks to the 3D veil in mind which allowed previously unimaginable "choices" to be discovered—hence the newfound "freedom" in the will).
Quote:9. Is the "soul" incarnated in a person reflected in the person's personality? Or, I mean, could a soul be incarnated into an extremely positively oriented human and then in the next incarnation be incarnated into an extremelt negatively oriented human? Or, is it the souls that are oriented as such and not the individual human personalities?
Extremely unlikely. Those who make such a drastic "change of heart" do so in confusion (under the 3D veil—good example being those two Venusian wanderers which went "negative" as recounted by Ra). Such occurrences are not in any way intended, as an entity firmly polarizing along the positive will have no reason whatsoever to consciously and deliberately jeopardize its polarity. It would be extremely counter-productive/depolarizing.
As for the "personality" (interesting to note it comes from Greek persona for mask), it is largely (if not almost entirely) the result/creation of the veil in mind. Most of the personality shell falls away sooner or later after incarnation. What is carried over is the "heart" or "essence" or "energetic signature" of the entity in question, as has been discussed in an earlier post, with all its particular strengths/weaknesses, biases, predilections, learnings, etc.
Quote:10. Let's say I became a celebrity and had a platform to "preach" or encourage millions of people to read the Law of One, and/or tried to convince people of its validity through logic. Would that be counter-intuitive to the purpose of the Ra Material? Is it better to keep it out of the mainstream so that the people who are meant to find it, and want to find it, find it? And so those who aren't meant to find it don't misinterpret? I wouldn't be proving the Law of One as absolute verifiable truth in this position, just spreading awareness of its existence to the general public.
To forcefully bring it to the mainstream (i.e. those which have not asked/sought it out by their own volition) would be akin to prostitution of the material, rather than preserving it in its more virginal condition, so to speak.
Perhaps your intent was most sincerely positive in this endeavour, and you shall be "judged" by this intent only. However, like many positive entities (4D+), you'd later (typically post-mortem) find out the "negative" or less than positive repercussions of your "preaching" actions, and thus feel compelled to rectify your "mistakes" by some "karmic restitution" of sorts; not unlike Ra, Yahweh and many other entities/groups who feel responsible—and therefore "karmically bound"—in some way or another by previous interactions with the human race (or specific cultural/racial portions thereof).
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Patrick - 06-19-2016
(06-18-2016, 03:26 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:Quote:4. Ra mentions that there are 1-8 densities and that these make up an "octave" of densities. Does this mean there are higher "octaves" of densities with even further spiritual growth? I thought I read that in the 8th density you reunite/become the creator, so is this incorrect or does this mean each "octave" of densities is like a cycle of breaking down into many-ness from the initial creator then coming back together as the creator and/or becoming the creator. Does this mean that the creator multiplies or just repeats the cycle endlessly?
Seems like it.
"However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities." 28.15
In 27.13, Ra likens the process to a heartbeat, which I see as a cyclical process. In the final experience of our octave, it's likely we return to the Creator, where the concept of "next" or "previous" or even "cycle" hold no sway as it is a timeless state. From our perspective in third density, where we perceive time, we are moving through octaves to the next. We probably cannot even fathom the experience or understanding upon the final merging with the Creator.
I think the next Ra quote (28.16) is also very informative on this subject, so here it is.
Quote:28.16 Questioner: Are you saying then there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?
Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.
However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - SilentRey - 06-24-2016
Even more great answers, here's two more questions from me..
I want to clarify my question about determinism conflicting with "free will." Although this isn't totally proven, and quantum physics will disagree with me, through the laws of thermodynamics/conservation of energy everything in this universe is cause-and-effect. The mysterious metaphysical consciousness part of people EXPERIENCES brain states, but has no control over/effect on brain states. Every physical being is just an extremely complex version of rocks hitting rocks, with the mystery of conscious experience as a non-interacting cherry on top. Thus, our "souls" DON'T make choices, they just experience cause-and-effect with the illusion/false belief of choice. Assuming this is true, the only way I could reconcile this type of determinism with the Law of One is if our "souls" learned through experience only, and not through true responsibility since determinism negates true choice thus negating true responsibility. Also, the whole point of creation/separation is for the creator to experience itself, so determinism (within this universe) wouldn't conflict with that goal. Do Ra's teachings contradict this absolute scientific determinism though? If so, how? This is really the only thing that I'm having trouble reconciling within the Law of One so far, since I also logically believe in this type of determinism (but am not 100% sure).
What effect does the "heart/essence/energetic signature" of an entity have during their physical incarnation? I suppose this also goes hand-in-hand with the determinism thing, since I don't think that the metaphysical consciousness/experience can effect brain states, but does Ra ever explain the effect of the traits of the entity/soul during the physical incarnation?
RE: 10 Specific Questions - AnthroHeart - 06-24-2016
I think all timelines are deterministic. But we constantly shift timelines, so as to preserve free will.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Minyatur - 06-24-2016
(06-24-2016, 04:03 PM)SilentRey Wrote: I want to clarify my question about determinism conflicting with "free will." Although this isn't totally proven, and quantum physics will disagree with me, through the laws of thermodynamics/conservation of energy everything in this universe is cause-and-effect. The mysterious metaphysical consciousness part of people EXPERIENCES brain states, but has no control over/effect on brain states. Every physical being is just an extremely complex version of rocks hitting rocks, with the mystery of conscious experience as a non-interacting cherry on top. Thus, our "souls" DON'T make choices, they just experience cause-and-effect with the illusion/false belief of choice. Assuming this is true, the only way I could reconcile this type of determinism with the Law of One is if our "souls" learned through experience only, and not through true responsibility since determinism negates true choice thus negating true responsibility. Also, the whole point of creation/separation is for the creator to experience itself, so determinism (within this universe) wouldn't conflict with that goal. Do Ra's teachings contradict this absolute scientific determinism though? If so, how? This is really the only thing that'd I'm having trouble reconciling within the Law of One so far, since I also logically believe in this type of determinism (but am not 100% sure).
I tend to agree with this, free will is the first distortion/illusion.
As all things are One you witness the cause and effect of One. Your actions are mirrors upon what others would do through yourself, just as others' actions are mirrors upon what you would do through them, through their stream of experience of yourself.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - anagogy - 06-24-2016
(06-24-2016, 04:03 PM)SilentRey Wrote: Even more great answers, here's two more questions from me..
I want to clarify my question about determinism conflicting with "free will." Although this isn't totally proven, and quantum physics will disagree with me, through the laws of thermodynamics/conservation of energy everything in this universe is cause-and-effect. The mysterious metaphysical consciousness part of people EXPERIENCES brain states, but has no control over/effect on brain states. Every physical being is just an extremely complex version of rocks hitting rocks, with the mystery of conscious experience as a non-interacting cherry on top. Thus, our "souls" DON'T make choices, they just experience cause-and-effect with the illusion/false belief of choice. Assuming this is true, the only way I could reconcile this type of determinism with the Law of One is if our "souls" learned through experience only, and not through true responsibility since determinism negates true choice thus negating true responsibility. Also, the whole point of creation/separation is for the creator to experience itself, so determinism (within this universe) wouldn't conflict with that goal. Do Ra's teachings contradict this absolute scientific determinism though? If so, how? This is really the only thing that I'm having trouble reconciling within the Law of One so far, since I also logically believe in this type of determinism (but am not 100% sure).
What effect does the "heart/essence/energetic signature" of an entity have during their physical incarnation? I suppose this also goes hand-in-hand with the determinism thing, since I don't think that the metaphysical consciousness/experience can effect brain states, but does Ra ever explain the effect of the traits of the entity/soul during the physical incarnation?
According to the Law of One, separation is simply an illusion. Thus, everything causes everything in some abstract sense. When you "choose", the whole universe chooses with you because you *ARE* that universe. Whether you call that free will, or determinism, I'm not sure. I generally consider it to be neither, as in, the question is misconceived and befuddles understanding. The primal "Will" at the root of all of our beingness is "free" in the sense of being able to do whatever it wants, needs, intends, or otherwise chooses to do, but there is no independent chooser from everything else, so there is no piece that is choosing in separation from the other pieces, that is simply an appearance. So it is as inaccurate to say the seemingly separate personality has free will, as it is to say that it does not have free will. Choosing is happening, but it is reflected holographically from the microcosm to the macrocosm in structure and experience so it is a bit outside the ball park of the limitations of our present perspective of the cosmos, though it is certainly fun to ruminate about.
Did the past cause the present or did the future fix the past? Did the stars determine your fate, or did your fate determine the stars? Both situations are correct in one sense, and wrong in another. The reality is bigger than both. It isn't linear. These are the paradoxes of the illusion of separation that are apparently resolved when unity is consciously realized.
And the relationship between the seemingly deterministic/mechanistic physical universe and the seemingly non-deterministic/unified nature of metaphysical consciousness is similar to the relationship between a mirror and its reflection. Our material observation is limited to the reflection in the mirror, which we examine in extreme detail, and then arrogantly proclaim that all cause and effect is contained there. It is simply not all contained there -- that is just the reflection which mimics perfectly, in exquisitely precise detail, the real cause and effect of consciousness. So say somebody is hooked up to an EEG -- they do something, we see all the lights and gizmos go off in their brain and proclaim this is must be the "cause" of the action. In actuality, it is just the clothes that the metaphysical has dressed itself up in. The reflection is, after all, very closely aligned with what is being reflected, and it can even be said that it is a relatively undistorted picture of what is being reflected, albeit a completely inverted display of the "real image" (i.e. the tangible universe is simply an inverted reflection of the intangible universe).
The inverted reflection of infinity is: finity.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Bring4th_Austin - 06-25-2016
(06-24-2016, 04:03 PM)SilentRey Wrote: Even more great answers, here's two more questions from me..
I want to clarify my question about determinism conflicting with "free will." Although this isn't totally proven, and quantum physics will disagree with me, through the laws of thermodynamics/conservation of energy everything in this universe is cause-and-effect. The mysterious metaphysical consciousness part of people EXPERIENCES brain states, but has no control over/effect on brain states. Every physical being is just an extremely complex version of rocks hitting rocks, with the mystery of conscious experience as a non-interacting cherry on top. Thus, our "souls" DON'T make choices, they just experience cause-and-effect with the illusion/false belief of choice. Assuming this is true, the only way I could reconcile this type of determinism with the Law of One is if our "souls" learned through experience only, and not through true responsibility since determinism negates true choice thus negating true responsibility. Also, the whole point of creation/separation is for the creator to experience itself, so determinism (within this universe) wouldn't conflict with that goal. Do Ra's teachings contradict this absolute scientific determinism though? If so, how? This is really the only thing that I'm having trouble reconciling within the Law of One so far, since I also logically believe in this type of determinism (but am not 100% sure).
What effect does the "heart/essence/energetic signature" of an entity have during their physical incarnation? I suppose this also goes hand-in-hand with the determinism thing, since I don't think that the metaphysical consciousness/experience can effect brain states, but does Ra ever explain the effect of the traits of the entity/soul during the physical incarnation?
I appreciate anagogy's response, but to respond to your clarification about free will and determinism:
The view you are describing of cause and effect is still at-odds with what Ra says. Ra, at many times, says that free will of the individual (in context, that self that is incarnated) is paramount. Scientism may define consciousness as simply that which is experiencing the simple cause and effect of our neurons firing in ways which are simply determined by all previous occurrences in the universe leading up to that point, but Ra's view is of a free will that may have influence over the mind - a consciousness which is not limited to simply experience, but has the ability of choice.
The laws of thermodynamics and conservation of energy are proven laws of the physical universe. What creates this conflict is that, in Scientism, the physical universe is what creates consciousness, or consciousness is an effect caused by matter interacting in certain ways. In the system Ra describes, this is not the case. Consciousness was primal to matter and may have existence and will beyond that which is dictated by matter.
That's not to say that the dynamic of cause and effect are wrong in the case of figuring out the parameters of our physical universe, only that the limit of our existence does not stop at the physical universe.
This is related to your question about the effect of the "soul" during the incarnation. In the Scientistic approach you outline, our traits and experiences within our incarnation are 100% a result of our genetics and the environment we experience limited to our single incarnation. Our "soul" brings biases and tendencies beyond that which is imprinted on us by these material factors. We may choose to incarnate into a situation which accentuates and/or counters those tendencies in order to balance and learn lessons, and so they may be seen as being connected. But beyond these physical circumstances, there is an essence which is a sort of a "distillation of distortions" of all of our previous experience that may influence how we experience, perceive, react, or behave within our incarnation. These are still secondary to the free will available to us at any single moment. Despite any bias carried into incarnation, free will is paramount.
I do want to note that saying any of this is not to discourage any belief which rings true for you or that you find useful. The Law of One may be useful without accepting all things within it as 100% truth, and questioning the source is a great way to determine how we feel about it, ourselves, and our reality. I think it honor's Ra's wishes and intent in sharing this information by weighing it against what we feel we truly believe and not taking their words for absolute truth.
And Ra is not infallible, and could simply be wrong about some things, or communicated in a way which is unintentionally misleading. It can be helpful to be rigorous in figuring out what is or isn't consistent with the universe Ra describes if only to help us understand our own differing beliefs in a deeper way. While many things in the material are wide open for interpretation, we can make objective statements about the material and what Ra says. It is my opinion that your description of determinism is objectively incompatible with the system in The Law of One.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - SilentRey - 06-25-2016
Alright those last two questions have been fully answered. I am still conflicted regarding the determinism thing but I have a lot more of the Ra Material to read and learn, and maybe I'll find a resolution to that conflict, so I'll come back to this forum whenever I finish the second book. Thank you all for the time and effort!
RE: 10 Specific Questions - APeacefulWarrior - 06-26-2016
SilentRey, this might be a good time to ask yourself why you so strongly wish to believe you don't have free will. Even if that belief turned out to be false, isn't it better to believe that it's possible for you to better yourself, to grow and learn, and make better decisions in the future? It's very hard to be a strict determinist without that belief turning into a do-nothing fatalism which assumes there's no point in even trying to do better.
At the end of the day, the existence of free will (or not) is deeply unlikely to be rigorously PROVEN either way, at least not for a very long time to come. So why not believe in the side that leaves you more options for influencing your own life? Doesn't that offer more opportunities to find success and happiness? After all, pretty much everything in 3D life is heavily distorted - we're very unlikely to be "right" about many things philosophically related, either way.
(Or as Slartibartfast said in the Hitchhiker's Guide, "I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say 'Hang the sense of it,' and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day.")
RE: 10 Specific Questions - unir 1 - 07-22-2016
(06-24-2016, 04:03 PM)SilentRey Wrote: Even more great answers, here's two more questions from me..
I want to clarify my question about determinism conflicting with "free will." Although this isn't totally proven, and quantum physics will disagree with me, through the laws of thermodynamics/conservation of energy everything in this universe is cause-and-effect. The mysterious metaphysical consciousness part of people EXPERIENCES brain states, but has no control over/effect on brain states. Every physical being is just an extremely complex version of rocks hitting rocks, with the mystery of conscious experience as a non-interacting cherry on top. Thus, our "souls" DON'T make choices, they just experience cause-and-effect with the illusion/false belief of choice. Assuming this is true, the only way I could reconcile this type of determinism with the Law of One is if our "souls" learned through experience only, and not through true responsibility since determinism negates true choice thus negating true responsibility. Also, the whole point of creation/separation is for the creator to experience itself, so determinism (within this universe) wouldn't conflict with that goal. Do Ra's teachings contradict this absolute scientific determinism though? If so, how? This is really the only thing that I'm having trouble reconciling within the Law of One so far, since I also logically believe in this type of determinism (but am not 100% sure).
What effect does the "heart/essence/energetic signature" of an entity have during their physical incarnation? I suppose this also goes hand-in-hand with the determinism thing, since I don't think that the metaphysical consciousness/experience can effect brain states, but does Ra ever explain the effect of the traits of the entity/soul during the physical incarnation?
I've read pretty much all the posts here (couldn't read fully for yours, anagogy, since I'm 9-hours sleep deprived and the mirror thing is a bit difficult for me to wrap my head around at the moment...sorry for the spotlight) and want to leave my own response.
SilentRey, everyone else, here you have it. Something I believe is very thought out:
I'll examine and identify key points in your post. The third sentence's notion implies already that there is a thing which is not subject to the flow of determinism; you call this thing the metaphysical consciousness. Fourth sentence expresses non-intervention of consciousness...while "in" the flow. I'm beginning to understand the concept. Had I given my answer before this post was acknowledged, you would have to had to clarify as you're doing now, for I would have neglected the understanding and offered an in-depth answer for something else. The fifth sentence -- I'm personally urged to wonder the nature of consciousness as it would be strange for something to be within the flow & boundary of determinism while...being uninvolved... I'm gathering an answer in my mind at this point, and I feel it will be satisfactory for this query. Your sixth sentence has more than one vital concept in it, which I must untangle due to my own misunderstanding; the "soul" concept is not one of concern for disentanglement for this was untangled in a previous draft, but I may write elaborating on that regard soon; in the Law of One there are no paradoxes, this would have to include that one regarding free will and scientific determinism; your point is that scientific determinism negates the existence of free-will, but in stating this you give a misunderstanding of the nature of free-will and determinism, and it is nothing to be ashamed about really. I will try my best to explain, to leave no room for vagueness or misunderstanding, but this is hardly my field:
Take scientific determinism like the nutrient-rich soil of the Earth, for now. Only that one for now. The soil is a medium for the plant life. A seed placed in this medium shall represent free-will. Now you may take other factors necessary for plant growth into the example: the water and the sun at healthy intervals for the seedling-to-be; the water and the sun, and the soil, are each now assumed as agents of determinism. The seed germinates, a root pokes downward, and takes whatever minerals the soil provided. This intake of minerals will affect the form and life of the plant. Likewise, outside of this example, there are particular health conditions, life circumstances far from one's control, and what you might know of as pre-incarnative choices, which have the effect of shaping the single experience of each human, just as the plant would be affected or effectively "shaped" in the example. To tighten the comparison, there may be determinists who will not accept that the plant exists in the form of what is known as "life". They will disregard the process called "life" of the plant, and emphasize the biochemical nature of the life process in order to deconstruct the notion of the "plant life" -- of course, I'm referring to free-will here. Such determinists may then propose that the soil, all possible processes of the plant (life, death, reproduction, to attempt to speak broadly), the sun, the water, and other factors or environmental circumstances usually found in the plant's life cycle are strictly agents of the cause-and-effect flow of scientific determinism. This is a simple example, not accounting for the complexities of scientific determinism but hopefully my comparison is basic enough to create a sound analogy.
Essentially, the life of the seedling/plant in the medium of the soil, and when within an environment in which it will grow, is equivalent to a human's free-will within the substrate of predetermined causes and effects. Yes, there are factors/"agents-of-determinism" which may greatly influence one's will.
Everything you do may be attributed to any cause and any effect. I believe a lot of us, if not all of us, make this observation daily -- naming causes or searching for them; the same for "effect(s)". But the wide selection of these -- the previously uncharted possibilities (well, have you begun charting possibilities ("effects") and the broad or perhaps even infinitesimal factors which can be called their "causes"?) created from choosing among probable outcomes; accounting for your skill-set and the external or deeply personal circumstances you face; not knowing why you're here on Earth, being inquisitive about what you should commit to; all of this summed up as the confusion of third density; these seem to generally compose a "wide selection" and in the midst of your accessible selection you are an entity with free-will. You choose. You are conscious of the experience. You may be aware of certain components, all rooted in the body and mind of your human self.
From my draft: if scientific determinism does not state that all things are one, or if the concept does not bear a loving and unifying attitude toward all things, then it may not stand above the Law of One; rather, determinism may be considered to be a distortion at some distance from this law.
Finally, the consciousness is not solely an observer experiencing the body and the [possibly] predetermined world (random varying percentiles with each outcome...hard to predetermine in one sensibly traceable way...). That, I believe, is a misunderstanding of consciousness, as its presence would be contradictory as far as it having no involvement in a "playing field" in which its own observations are created by the very same playing field or substrate. That is a key point to absorb in order to relieve oneself of the misunderstanding.
I will be back to pickup where I left off in a new post. I've tried to be as clear as my understanding allows. Also, sorry for the Ra-accent. I'll try to smooth it out next time.
By the way. Everything that can be predetermined is unfolding in a way that upholds karma, forgiveness (dissolution of karma), and free-will. Simultaneously. [Edit: that was way too speculative; the idea needs to be reexamined.] Mull on that if you will, might give you some more insight on determinism (if applicable to you or others) if you're willing to consider those three concepts. Consequently, the "components"/agents of predetermination, if you begin to search for them, are a bit pointless to try and manipulate, use to gamble outcomes, and other stuff. [Edit: not very pointless, can be useful to pick outcomes.] Yourself is at the core of it all. Yourself has more to offer than that stuff when you open yourself up to others.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - unir 1 - 07-22-2016
There's confusion about the term "soul"
I'm familiar with the terms "mind/body/spirit complex" when describing an entity of third density or an entity of a higher density. In my understanding you are/have a mind, a body, and a spirit in an interconnected setup; in the Ra Material, this interconnection of your being is known as the mind/body/spirit complex. I have gotten the two terms "spirit" and "soul" mixed up before, and I'm wondering if you will accept that these terms hold very similar definitions in the sense that they are a part of your being; if you'll accept this, then I'll ask that you also please accept the use of the word "spirit" instead of "soul" to see the concepts retain the familiar terminology.
The {soul/spirit[x]} is not an entity, much like your mind is not an entity. Any one of those are components. You are an entity due to your mind, body, and spirit being a single, individual "complex" as Ra puts it. You may experience, for the most part, both the nature of the second and third density which are mostly involved with the chemical body and the individual/social perspective interwoven in the individual units/bodies of chemical creatures.
The nature by which the densities are interwoven to you or I, or anyone else, is a matter of the nature of the energy centers.
Second, we have the consciousness or the conscious mind. Third, to be more specific, the conscious mind of an individual, makes choices. When you are conscious, you're basically awake -- not taking a nap or being hypnotized or being "somewhere else" while your body is inactive/active. While conscious you make choices, do things...as I've understood your perspective, another way to phrase it would be like your mind and body going through the motions of deterministic cause-and-effect while the soul is actually able to experience this world. The conscious mind seems separated from the subconscious mind, and these both may be divisions of the mind which composes your complex beingness.
Still, with the Veil of third density in effect, you are limited to the "conscious mind" and it's confusion, whereas prior to the veil, you would have had conscious awareness and use of the "subconscious mind" as well.
Fourth:
The soul or spirit does not make the pre-incarnative choices. The entity who had been incarnate and who has consequently gone through the process of death, will have the mind, spirit, and consciousness (not body) moved from the unusable, dead body onto a different lighter body. The lighter body, if I recall correctly, would be the indigo body, or that one which is associated with the indigo-ray energy center/pineal, "third-eye" chakra. So this indigo body, the form-maker body as Ra calls, is what would then host your mind and body, and consequently your consciousness too when your third density body (the one you wrap in clothing) has failed or lost all functioning.
Fifth:
In my understanding, based on the Ra Material (and to a far lesser extent some other material), the spirit is like a channel or a shuttle to "intelligent infinity"; but in a different way of looking at it, the spirit is something with which you may consciously re-connect...or rather, inhabit, in order to reconnect...to the creator or the creator's intelligent infinity. Correct me if I'm wrong about the spirit being a shuttle.
The gateway to intelligent infinity also happens to be the indigo-ray energy center, but this might be a trivial point.
Something worth noting, however, is that the chemical creature is inspirited upon graduating second-density. Being inspirited it is given, among a spirit of course, the remaining energy centers in a third density body; those remaining four energy centers (including the yellow-ray energy center/solar plexus chakra) are awaiting activation, except the yellow-ray or third energy center which is the primarily active energy center for the new third-density entity. So doing the math, three energy centers: the green-ray, blue-ray, and indigo-ray, may be activated and I believe they are each activated when a service-to-self or service-to-others entity has polarized to the extent of harvestability. If service-to-self (negative polarity) , the pattern of activation of energy centers is red, orange, yellow, and skipping to indigo to penetrate intelligent infinity. If service-to-others (positive polarity), the pattern is a complete activation of each energy center to the same end of penetrating intelligent infinity. Upon that feat, the entity may choose to stay or leave but is now harvestable fourth density, for the appropriate polarity of the entity.
Sixth:
The entity of third-density learns through absorbing experience. I translate that into examining your desires sincerely, reflecting on experiences, doing what you must do with your own judgement, facing experience, forgiving, loving; for the positive path, at least. For the negative path, the same third-density entity may learn to separate itself from itself, oneself from others, and use its experience to control others and itself. Each, I believe, will have a level of discipline involved when polarization grows stronger. The spirit, or even (if you've heard of it) the "Oversoul", does not learn anymore than you do while you are alive and in this world. This, and everything else, is the experience. Exercise will at your own discernment (meaning: do what you will, for your reasons), exercise judgement at your own will (trying to be clever here by switching the words around). In Ra's understanding, one's attempted understanding of the Law of One will greatly accelerate positive polarity. Either way, the so-called Great Veil experiment was already meant to do that. Everything you are, everything you have in you -- it is you, what now? We have each other also. What now?
Seventh:
I should've mentioned this one earlier, but I forgot. If scientific determinism would take all material existence into account, what's stopping it from taking the physical and metaphysical into account, or things beyond physical/metaphysical? Either way, I believe that what I posted earlier challenges that notion pretty well.
"What effect does the 'heart/essence/energetic signature' of an entity have during their physical incarnation?"
From what I read and understood earlier in the thread, I see it as something you discover in yourself after enough experience of yourself 'distilling' or absorbing, understanding, etc. the very experience you've received thus far. Which, by the way, is unique to you. Any effect produced by your essence which, being a part of your third-density self, is thus displayed in the physical (this implies that not everything you do always has a noticeable effect in 'the physical') would be bound to the flow of scientific determinism. In other words, your energy signature will inevitably move things in some way, but if you want look closely to how it moves you and then do your guesswork from there. Also, I seem to recall an idea in the Ra Material of lightening the planetary consciousness with one's self, this very likely being related to what you're asking about. If so, the effect is likely that your heart/essence opens a bit of love which lightens up the planetary consciousness...I barely have a clue what that means at this time.
My opinion on scientific determinism is that you get what you make, first of all. Second of all, if you're bound by predetermined outcomes, there is still always a potential for harvest in any chemical body of any incarnation. So there must also be a potential for you or anyone in this incarnation. Say, adjusting the right bodily chemicals to a natural equilibrium, but doing this based on your sincerest experiences, judgements, choices, reflections, conscious understanding of yourself; moving onto the work in the yellow-ray energy center thereafter; this, the activation and balancing of energy centers, seems to be a good direction if you want to take your destiny and steer it toward harvestability. You know, if that's what you're looking for *hint hint*.
Eighth:
"since I don't think that the metaphysical consciousness/experience can effect brain states, but does Ra ever explain the effect of the traits of the entity/soul during the physical incarnation?"
Uhmm...not that I recall. These effects, as I've presumed, are more like (a) dormancy and an (b) interconnectedness with the body/mind which basically inspirits the body/mind, gives it life, or will, and you are your own spirit at this point...with his/her own incarnational objectives, karmic patterns, wants, circumstance, etc. Reminder that...well, according the Ra Material, the main lesson of this density is love, and third-density incarnates may mess up every now and then due to their free-will, acquire karma and reincarnations, and thus from the confusion one may then have to learn what one was so confused/unaware about; all this inclined towards love, the lesson of the lifetime; no groundhog day scenario, I believe. Lessons learned are lessons learned. Lessons neglected are not wisely done so, since they are lessons not exempt for any third density, but established for every third-density entity.
--
I think I'm done for now, at least till I get some rest. I don't wanna revise right now, there may be incomplete chunks of text or whatever.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - SilentRey - 08-05-2016
Thank you for your time and effort unir, I love your perspective on these things. Very well thought out. One clarification though, if I may..
(07-22-2016, 02:07 PM)unir 1 Wrote: The soul or spirit does not make the pre-incarnative choices. The entity who had been incarnate and who has consequently gone through the process of death, will have the mind, spirit, and consciousness (not body) moved from the unusable, dead body onto a different lighter body. The lighter body, if I recall correctly, would be the indigo body, or that one which is associated with the indigo-ray energy center/pineal, "third-eye" chakra. So this indigo body, the form-maker body as Ra calls, is what would then host your mind and body, and consequently your consciousness too when your third density body (the one you wrap in clothing) has failed or lost all functioning.
My understanding of this quote is that when we, our bodies, "die" in third density, our spirit goes back to inhabiting its "indigo body" in-between third-density incarnations? You also say that the spirit does not make pre-incarnative choices, but my understanding was that during this in-between stage the spirit chooses what third-density being to next inhabit based on the attributes/experiences desired by the spirit. Do you disagree with this? Maybe you could explain your understanding of the dying/reincarnation cycle, especially regarding what occurs during the stage in-between incarnations.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - herald - 08-11-2016
(07-22-2016, 02:07 PM)unir 1 Wrote: There's confusion about the term "soul"
I'm familiar with the terms "mind/body/spirit complex" when describing an entity of third density or an entity of a higher density. In my understanding you are/have a mind, a body, and a spirit in an interconnected setup; in the Ra Material, this interconnection of your being is known as the mind/body/spirit complex. I have gotten the two terms "spirit" and "soul" mixed up before, and I'm wondering if you will accept that these terms hold very similar definitions in the sense that they are a part of your being; if you'll accept this, then I'll ask that you also please accept the use of the word "spirit" instead of "soul" to see the concepts retain the familiar terminology.
The {soul/spirit[x]} is not an entity, much like your mind is not an entity. Any one of those are components. You are an entity due to your mind, body, and spirit being a single, individual "complex" as Ra puts it. You may experience, for the most part, both the nature of the second and third density which are mostly involved with the chemical body and the individual/social perspective interwoven in the individual units/bodies of chemical creatures.
The nature by which the densities are interwoven to you or I, or anyone else, is a matter of the nature of the energy centers.
Second, we have the consciousness or the conscious mind. Third, to be more specific, the conscious mind of an individual, makes choices. When you are conscious, you're basically awake -- not taking a nap or being hypnotized or being "somewhere else" while your body is inactive/active. While conscious you make choices, do things...as I've understood your perspective, another way to phrase it would be like your mind and body going through the motions of deterministic cause-and-effect while the soul is actually able to experience this world. The conscious mind seems separated from the subconscious mind, and these both may be divisions of the mind which composes your complex beingness.
Still, with the Veil of third density in effect, you are limited to the "conscious mind" and it's confusion, whereas prior to the veil, you would have had conscious awareness and use of the "subconscious mind" as well.
Fourth:
The soul or spirit does not make the pre-incarnative choices. The entity who had been incarnate and who has consequently gone through the process of death, will have the mind, spirit, and consciousness (not body) moved from the unusable, dead body onto a different lighter body. The lighter body, if I recall correctly, would be the indigo body, or that one which is associated with the indigo-ray energy center/pineal, "third-eye" chakra. So this indigo body, the form-maker body as Ra calls, is what would then host your mind and body, and consequently your consciousness too when your third density body (the one you wrap in clothing) has failed or lost all functioning.
Fifth:
In my understanding, based on the Ra Material (and to a far lesser extent some other material), the spirit is like a channel or a shuttle to "intelligent infinity"; but in a different way of looking at it, the spirit is something with which you may consciously re-connect...or rather, inhabit, in order to reconnect...to the creator or the creator's intelligent infinity. Correct me if I'm wrong about the spirit being a shuttle.
The gateway to intelligent infinity also happens to be the indigo-ray energy center, but this might be a trivial point.
Something worth noting, however, is that the chemical creature is inspirited upon graduating second-density. Being inspirited it is given, among a spirit of course, the remaining energy centers in a third density body; those remaining four energy centers (including the yellow-ray energy center/solar plexus chakra) are awaiting activation, except the yellow-ray or third energy center which is the primarily active energy center for the new third-density entity. So doing the math, three energy centers: the green-ray, blue-ray, and indigo-ray, may be activated and I believe they are each activated when a service-to-self or service-to-others entity has polarized to the extent of harvestability. If service-to-self (negative polarity) , the pattern of activation of energy centers is red, orange, yellow, and skipping to indigo to penetrate intelligent infinity. If service-to-others (positive polarity), the pattern is a complete activation of each energy center to the same end of penetrating intelligent infinity. Upon that feat, the entity may choose to stay or leave but is now harvestable fourth density, for the appropriate polarity of the entity.
Sixth:
The entity of third-density learns through absorbing experience. I translate that into examining your desires sincerely, reflecting on experiences, doing what you must do with your own judgement, facing experience, forgiving, loving; for the positive path, at least. For the negative path, the same third-density entity may learn to separate itself from itself, oneself from others, and use its experience to control others and itself. Each, I believe, will have a level of discipline involved when polarization grows stronger. The spirit, or even (if you've heard of it) the "Oversoul", does not learn anymore than you do while you are alive and in this world. This, and everything else, is the experience. Exercise will at your own discernment (meaning: do what you will, for your reasons), exercise judgement at your own will (trying to be clever here by switching the words around). In Ra's understanding, one's attempted understanding of the Law of One will greatly accelerate positive polarity. Either way, the so-called Great Veil experiment was already meant to do that. Everything you are, everything you have in you -- it is you, what now? We have each other also. What now?
Seventh:
I should've mentioned this one earlier, but I forgot. If scientific determinism would take all material existence into account, what's stopping it from taking the physical and metaphysical into account, or things beyond physical/metaphysical? Either way, I believe that what I posted earlier challenges that notion pretty well.
"What effect does the 'heart/essence/energetic signature' of an entity have during their physical incarnation?"
From what I read and understood earlier in the thread, I see it as something you discover in yourself after enough experience of yourself 'distilling' or absorbing, understanding, etc. the very experience you've received thus far. Which, by the way, is unique to you. Any effect produced by your essence which, being a part of your third-density self, is thus displayed in the physical (this implies that not everything you do always has a noticeable effect in 'the physical') would be bound to the flow of scientific determinism. In other words, your energy signature will inevitably move things in some way, but if you want look closely to how it moves you and then do your guesswork from there. Also, I seem to recall an idea in the Ra Material of lightening the planetary consciousness with one's self, this very likely being related to what you're asking about. If so, the effect is likely that your heart/essence opens a bit of love which lightens up the planetary consciousness...I barely have a clue what that means at this time.
My opinion on scientific determinism is that you get what you make, first of all. Second of all, if you're bound by predetermined outcomes, there is still always a potential for harvest in any chemical body of any incarnation. So there must also be a potential for you or anyone in this incarnation. Say, adjusting the right bodily chemicals to a natural equilibrium, but doing this based on your sincerest experiences, judgements, choices, reflections, conscious understanding of yourself; moving onto the work in the yellow-ray energy center thereafter; this, the activation and balancing of energy centers, seems to be a good direction if you want to take your destiny and steer it toward harvestability. You know, if that's what you're looking for *hint hint*.
Eighth:
"since I don't think that the metaphysical consciousness/experience can effect brain states, but does Ra ever explain the effect of the traits of the entity/soul during the physical incarnation?"
Uhmm...not that I recall. These effects, as I've presumed, are more like (a) dormancy and an (b) interconnectedness with the body/mind which basically inspirits the body/mind, gives it life, or will, and you are your own spirit at this point...with his/her own incarnational objectives, karmic patterns, wants, circumstance, etc. Reminder that...well, according the Ra Material, the main lesson of this density is love, and third-density incarnates may mess up every now and then due to their free-will, acquire karma and reincarnations, and thus from the confusion one may then have to learn what one was so confused/unaware about; all this inclined towards love, the lesson of the lifetime; no groundhog day scenario, I believe. Lessons learned are lessons learned. Lessons neglected are not wisely done so, since they are lessons not exempt for any third density, but established for every third-density entity.
--
I think I'm done for now, at least till I get some rest. I don't wanna revise right now, there may be incomplete chunks of text or whatever.
First: Copy and paste, immediately for further review. Second, try not to be upset about only one "like". Third: Thank you! and SilentRey. Fourth: Wow! Fifth: I enjoyed the humor and educational value of your work. Sixth: (sigh). Seventh: Its been a long time. I've done a lot of reading over the years. *th Hmm?
RE: 10 Specific Questions - WanderingOZ - 08-12-2016
If STS must eventually change to STO, does that allso imply that at some stage that STO must give STS a go?
WanderingOZ
RE: 10 Specific Questions - Patrick - 08-12-2016
(08-12-2016, 04:34 AM)WanderingOZ Wrote: If STS must eventually change to STO, does that allso imply that at some stage that STO must give STS a go?
WanderingOZ
STS does not really change to STO in 6d, they just release polarity. Just as STO also releases polarity somewhere in 6d.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - APeacefulWarrior - 08-12-2016
(08-12-2016, 04:34 AM)WanderingOZ Wrote: If STS must eventually change to STO, does that allso imply that at some stage that STO must give STS a go?
WanderingOZ
This is a somewhat controversial and unclear area of Ra's teachings but, personally, I believe the answer is 'yes.' After all, the Creator is ALL things\entities\experiences, and moving into 7th\8th Density means unifying with the Creator. I don't see how that would be possible for an entity which has exclusively experienced only one of the polarities.
And like Patrick said, I also believe late 6D means truly abandoning concepts of polarity entirely, at least in terms of how they relate to the self. Rather I think it means embracing both polarities equally and finding the unity of energies which underlie them.
After all, Ra said he seeks without polarity in his own growth and learning. It also seems to be somewhat hinted at when he discusses the oversoul/higher-self of every entity which exists in late Sixth Density: (36.12) "Therefore, the Oversoul which makes its understanding available to all who are ready for such aid is towards the positive. However, the free will of the individual is paramount, and any guidance given by the higher self may be seen in either the positive or negative polarity depending upon the choice of a mind/body/spirit complex."
What's interesting here is his phrasing. "The Oversoul ... is towards the positive." Not that it is positive. And if the Oversoul is either neutral or trending towards neutrality, it would explain how/why its guidance can be equally interpreted as either positive or negative: If late-6D abandonment of polarity means the embrace of both polarities equally in unity, its messages would then be broadcast containing both polarities, which are received by the lower-self in accordance to its polarity at that moment. Like natural light (the message) passing through polarized glass (the lower-self), only one polarity would shine through to the other side.
Whereas it would be fairly difficult to explain how a purely positive higher-self could send guidance which is equally interpretable as negative. A positive broadcast should be repulsive to a negative entity.
But this is all extremely esoteric and obscure, and Ra really didn't go into THAT much detail about the mechanics of these things. I suspect he figured details about 6D-7D would be "over our heads," so to speak (and said as much at points) and may have even been concerned about creating too much confusion. After all, native 3D entities who falsely believed themselves to be 6D-originated Wanderers could end up derailing their own attempt at polarization if they believed they had no need of it.
So it's probably not worth worrying too much about either way. After all, even 6D Wanderers are fundamentally here to love and do service for the Earth, which is a positive activity regardless of whatever their personal higher polarization might or might not be.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - ricdaw - 08-12-2016
(08-12-2016, 12:01 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote:(08-12-2016, 04:34 AM)WanderingOZ Wrote: If STS must eventually change to STO, does that allso imply that at some stage that STO must give STS a go?
WanderingOZ
After all, Ra said he seeks without polarity in his own growth and learning. It also seems to be somewhat hinted at when he discusses the oversoul/higher-self of every entity which exists in late Sixth Density: (36.12) "Therefore, the Oversoul which makes its understanding available to all who are ready for such aid is towards the positive. However, the free will of the individual is paramount, and any guidance given by the higher self may be seen in either the positive or negative polarity depending upon the choice of a mind/body/spirit complex."
What's interesting here is his phrasing. "The Oversoul ... is towards the positive." Not that it is positive. And if the Oversoul is either neutral or trending towards neutrality, it would explain how/why its guidance can be equally interpreted as either positive or negative: If late-6D abandonment of polarity means the embrace of both polarities equally in unity, its messages would then be broadcast containing both polarities, which are received by the lower-self in accordance to its polarity at that moment. Like natural light (the message) passing through polarized glass (the lower-self), only one polarity would shine through to the other side.
Whereas it would be fairly difficult to explain how a purely positive higher-self could send guidance which is equally interpretable as negative. A positive broadcast should be repulsive to a negative entity.
I think the fact that the Oversoul is sharing information, the very act of making "its understanding available," is the "positive" part. Sharing is service to other by definition. A completely neutral Oversoul would probably remain silent and observe; thus giving maximum effect to our free will. I'm not sure that the Oversoul's information itself needs to be either positive or negative, or even balanced equally between the two. I get the impression that the Oversoul is simply sharing its experience and knowledge for the sake of sharing. We get to tap into it and use it as we will. Kinda like a library. We can check out the information that we are interested in.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - APeacefulWarrior - 08-12-2016
(08-12-2016, 01:04 PM)ricdaw Wrote: Sharing is service to other by definition.
Even when it's sharing with self?
Ra makes it pretty clear in 37.6 that the Oversoul would understand the "lower self" as self, not other.
Quote:This self, the mind/body/spirit complex of late sixth density, has then the honor/duty of using both the experiences of its total living bank or memory of experienced thoughts and actions, and using the resource of the mind/body/spirit complex totality left behind as a type of infinitely complex thought-form. In this way you may see your self, your higher self or Oversoul, and your mind/body/spirit complex totality as three points in a circle. The only distinction is that of your time/space continuum. All are the same being.
I agree about it being like a library, but I still think any polarization involved is very unclear, at best. After all, that sharing is also vital and necessary for its own lower development which, in turn, allows the higher-self to exist at all. If it didn't share, it would undo its own existence. But that's an impossibility, because its lower-self already benefited from the higher-self's sharing, so it therefore must share. It's a causal loop.
So I still think this is still easier to explain if polarity is abandoned\unified in late 6D. That would "free" the higher-self to simply provide guidance to its lower-self(s) at any stage of life, and in any experiments with polarity, without its own polarity interfering. Because its "polarity" has become an embrace of the underlying unifying energy of which negative\positive is a distortion.
RE: 10 Specific Questions - ricdaw - 08-12-2016
(08-12-2016, 01:04 PM)ricdaw Wrote: Sharing is service to other by definition.
(08-12-2016, 02:14 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: Even when it's sharing with self?
Ra makes it pretty clear in 37.6 that the Oversoul would understand the "lower self" as self, not other.
Oh. Good one. Yes!
(08-12-2016, 02:14 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: I agree about it being like a library, but I still think any polarization involved is very unclear, at best. After all, that sharing is also vital and necessary for its own lower development which, in turn, allows the higher-self to exist at all. If it didn't share, it would undo its own existence. But that's an impossibility, because its lower-self already benefited from the higher-self's sharing, so it therefore must share. It's a causal loop.
Recursive. (Two thumbs up!)
(08-12-2016, 02:14 PM)APeacefulWarrior Wrote: So I still think this is still easier to explain if polarity is abandoned\unified in late 6D. That would "free" the higher-self to simply provide guidance to its lower-self(s) at any stage of life, and in any experiments with polarity, without its own polarity interfering. Because its "polarity" has become an embrace of the underlying unifying energy of which negative\positive is a distortion.
Would abandonment/unification of polarity be akin to moving from doing (service is an activity) to just being? Not necessarily dwelling in bliss, but doing no "work"?
Good thoughts, APeacefulWarrior!