+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Community (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: Olio (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Unity and the Afterlife (/showthread.php?tid=12865)
Unity and the Afterlife - ada - 05-04-2016
Greetings,
There's something that has been on my mind but I'm having a difficulty expressing it so I back out every time from posting due to distortion.
Anyhow I'll just type and see where it goes.
So, supposedly there is a higher consciousness upon this plane that we emerged from. Many times Ra have implied that there were individuals in the past who reached this High consciousness/unity to obtain knowledge.
Assuming that we go back to our spiritual selves after we die, and get in touch with this higher consciousness/unity. It would mean we already posses much knowledge than needed to move on from this 3rd density plane. So why do we choose to go back, forget everything and start from scratch and distortion.
This cannot be the first time I found myself upon incarnating.
Why would we make ourselves go through this suffering every time just to find the same answer and get lost once again.
I hope I'm clear enough and this isn't already distorted too far.
Just what is progress? If time is an illusion then why would we be "rewarded" by what we do here eg. being in Service to Others in this massively misunderstood distortion.
I'm speaking to those whom experienced this very illusion of time, you know what I mean. The past does not exist nor does it matter. So why, why would I be harvested based on illusion within an illusionary idea of a past?
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - Aion - 05-04-2016
Quote:37.6 Questioner: In that case, we’ll go ahead with the questions we have here continuing the last session. You said that each third-density entity has an higher self in the sixth density which is moving to the mind/body/spirit complex of the entity as needed. Does this higher self also evolve in growth through the densities beginning with the first density, and does each higher self have a corresponding higher self advanced in densities beyond it?
Ra: I am Ra. To simplify this concept is our intent. The higher self is a manifestation given to the late sixth-density mind/body/spirit complex as a gift from its future selfness. The mid-seventh density’s last action before turning towards the allness of the Creator and gaining spiritual mass is to give this resource to the sixth-density self, moving as you measure time in the stream of time.
This self, the mind/body/spirit complex of late sixth density, has then the honor/duty of using both the experiences of its total living bank or memory of experienced thoughts and actions, and using the resource of the mind/body/spirit complex totality left behind as a type of infinitely complex thought-form.
In this way you may see your self, your higher self or Oversoul, and your mind/body/spirit complex totality as three points in a circle. The only distinction is that of your time/space continuum. All are the same being.
It is the SELF that progresses, the higher self that is the resource of the self's experience and the Totality which is your complete, unified self. As I said, it is only your SELF that is actually progressing, and this is different from your higher self or Totality. Your higher self has access to all your experience up to that point, and your Totality is you existing simultaneously on all levels but your SELF is a focal point which is moving through experiences. So while when you pass you may experience your Totality, your SELF is still not at that state.
You can basically see it as a process of your SELF gradually becoming the Totality. The Higher Self is a bridge which continuously draws and guides the self towards that ultimate state of unity and total simultaneous existence.
So, why come back? You have not yet experienced all that you are.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - anagogy - 05-04-2016
(05-04-2016, 04:01 PM)Papercut Wrote: Greetings,
There's something that has been on my mind but I'm having a difficulty expressing it so I back out every time from posting due to distortion.
Anyhow I'll just type and see where it goes.
So, supposedly there is a higher consciousness upon this plane that we emerged from. Many times Ra have implied that there were individuals in the past who reached this High consciousness/unity to obtain knowledge.
Assuming that we go back to our spiritual selves after we die, and get in touch with this higher consciousness/unity. It would mean we already posses much knowledge than needed to move on from this 3rd density plane. So why do we choose to go back, forget everything and start from scratch and distortion.
This cannot be the first time I found myself upon incarnating.
Why would we make ourselves go through this suffering every time just to find the same answer and get lost once again.
I hope I'm clear enough and this isn't already distorted too far.
Just what is progress? If time is an illusion then why would we be "rewarded" by what we do here eg. being in Service to Others in this massively misunderstood distortion.
I'm speaking to those whom experienced this very illusion of time, you know what I mean. The past does not exist nor does it matter. So why, why would I be harvested based on illusion within an illusionary idea of a past?
The growth is not for what the growth will net us. For we are already the creator, and we are already perfect, all knowing, all powerful, perfect peace, perfect love, perfect wisdom. Thus, there is no reward for good behavior or punishment for bad behavior. Karma is just imbalance attracting those experiences which create balance.
We incarnate to experience growth for growth itself. The experience of growth is what puts the "aliveness" in LIFE. That is hard for us to understand from this incarnate vantage point, but the experience of growth, on all levels of consciousness, is the most sought after experience of infinite intelligence. It gives meaning to infinite intelligence. The creator knows itself through the growth of all forms. Growth can oftentimes seem painful. That's true. But before you came into this life, you were absolutely THRILLED to have the opportunity to "play the Earth school game". From your spiritual vantage point, although knowing it would be challenging, you knew that afterwards it would be an extremely cherished and unique one of a kind experience. From the discarnate vantage point of pure peace, we don't fear the circumstances of incarnation, we absolutely look forward to it and the "role" we will "play" upon the stage of life.
If it's any consolation, for every pain you experience there will eventually be the polar opposite healing experience. In the end all distortions are completely balanced out, so no matter how wounded we become, we will eventually be healed completely, just as surely as the ripples on a pond will eventually become still. Everything balances out in the end. Everything is healed - mind, body, and spirit.
Essentially, as the creator, we pretend to be undeveloped precisely for the reason that we can then pretend to develop. It is a spiritual game that infinity has/is/always will be playing. This can be depressing for some people when they are in the midst of uncomfortable growing pains, but if it's any consolation, the more growth we achieve, the less "contrasting" the incarnate lessons are. In other words, the growth lessons become softer and more refined as we become more spiritually aware and no longer need aversive catalyst to motivate us to seek after "better circumstances".
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - hounsic - 05-04-2016
Karma is just imbalance attracting those experiences which create balance. So simply said, beautiful!
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - AnthroHeart - 05-04-2016
So does karma mean that if we experience a good life, we have to experience a bad one in the hereafter to balance out the good?
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - anagogy - 05-04-2016
(05-04-2016, 08:57 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: So does karma mean that if we experience a good life, we have to experience a bad one in the hereafter to balance out the good?
Good question, and the answer is no. And let me explain why.
At the very moment the creator, or infinite intelligence, enters space/time in 1st density, it is similar to throwing a giant rock into a very still pond. Perfect balance has chosen to experience simulated imbalance (relative to undistorted unity), and allow that imbalance to "grow" or develop back into perfect balance again. So think of 1st density as the initial giant "waves" as the rock splashes into the stillness of the pond. Each life is a continuous smoothing out of those waves. In 2nd density the waves are smaller. In 3rd density they are smaller still. Each life is a progression towards the balance of unity.
So what I'm saying is that entrance into 1st density was polarized imbalance, or illusion, and every experience thereafter is a gradual tuning towards balance. We occasionally move in retrograde in certain lives, but this movement is inconsequential compared to the inevitable vector upwards with regards to the gradual comprehension of intelligent infinity.
So everything is inevitably attracting balance. You can think of karma as your "level of imbalance to work out", lets say at 1st density your "karma meter" was set to "1000" for the "purposes of the game". Your goal, in this game, is to work off those thousands points of imbalance. The experiences that will work off those karma points are naturally attracted because the natural state of being is utterly undistorted unity. Like the pond, the tendency is to move towards stillness eventually. So the karma points are naturally being worked off, but when you become spiritually conscious, they can begin to be worked off even faster. Occasionally, when we have a life where we are a "real a-hole" we will add a few points on, but they are worked off too in the long run.
I hope that makes things clear for you.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - Minyatur - 05-04-2016
I'd think most would wander because there is a desire for change. Ra said that third density has a unique intensity to it.
Quote:77.15 Questioner: The specific question that I had was that it seems to me that the choice was planned to create intense polarization past third density so that experience would be intense past third density. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. Given that our interpretation of your sound vibration complexes is appropriate, this is incorrect. The intensity of fourth density is that of the refining of the rough-hewn sculpture. This is, indeed, in its own way, quite intense causing the mind/body/spirit complex to move ever inward and onward in its quest for fuller expression. However, in third density the statue is forged in the fire. This is a type of intensity which is not the property of fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh densities.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - Blunt Force - 05-05-2016
Is afterlife same as life - with catalysts?
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - spero - 05-05-2016
my understanding is that space/time or incarnation is the only setting in which u can alter ur balances/imbalances and progress (as per the below quote). so even tho in time/space all things are simultaneous and u can communicate with future aspects of urself and the amount of knowledge available is far greater, it's knowledge which cant really be used for progress except in planning the challenges of space/time incarnation to correct the imbalances. in this sense i think simulataneity is only truly existent in time/space, whilst u only really have a single space/time analog at any particular junction. thats why its necessary to move ur space/time incarnational self through the densities sequentially even if ur time/space self has all the knowledge of its higher self and the totality at its fingertips.
basically very similar to what aion was saying
Quote:71.7 Questioner: Is the process in positive time/space identical with the process in negative time/space for this healing?
Ra: I am Ra. The process in space/time of the forgiveness and acceptance is much like that in time/space in that the qualities of the process are analogous. However, while in space/time it is not possible to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation but only to correct present imbalances. In time/space, upon the other hand, it is not possible to correct any unbalanced actions but rather to perceive the imbalances and thusly forgive the self for that which is.
The decisions then are made to set up the possibility/probabilities of correcting these imbalances in what you call future space/time experiences. The advantage of time/space is that of the fluidity of the grand overview. The advantage of space/time is that, working in darkness with a tiny candle, one may correct imbalances.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - 1109 - 05-06-2016
You can think of old school photography. The work and progress of photography takes place in daylight (space time), but to actually view the result and plan for corrections you need a darkroom (time space). Inside there you can't take any new photos so you need to go back outside and reincarnate.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - Blunt Force - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 03:22 AM)1109 Wrote: You can think of old school photography. The work and progress of photography takes place in daylight (space time), but to actually view the result and plan for corrections you need a darkroom (time space). Inside there you can't take any new photos so you need to go back outside and reincarnate.
This is very nice.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - AnthroHeart - 05-06-2016
I hope in the afterlife we get to have the desires that were never satisfied while on Earth.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - anagogy - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 03:36 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: I hope in the afterlife we get to have the desires that were never satisfied while on Earth.
I personally believe that you do.
After this life there is a period of transition and orientation where you can explore desires you didn't satisfy physically. The astral world is much like the physical world, but simply more mentally malleable (though, I wouldn't say it is "more" malleable than your dreams -- there is a subtle difference that is difficult to describe -- your thoughts don't instantly spring to life like in your dreams). Since there is no time, it can last as long as you want it to. Some beings have little need for this and simply "wash off" their human form/habits and feel no need to play around with those earthly desires, while others feel a great attraction to do so. And then, you will eventually and inevitably become mentally bored with that, and you move beyond this orientation point and go back to spiritual study, examining various past life decisions/behavior, and planning future incarnations with your "soul cluster" that will further elevate and balance your karma.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - AnthroHeart - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 04:04 PM)anagogy Wrote:(05-06-2016, 03:36 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: I hope in the afterlife we get to have the desires that were never satisfied while on Earth.
I personally believe that you do.
After this life there is a period of transition and orientation where you can explore desires you didn't satisfy physically. The astral world is much like the physical world, but simply more mentally malleable (though, I wouldn't say it is "more" malleable than your dreams -- there is a subtle difference that is difficult to describe -- your thoughts don't instantly spring to life like in your dreams). Since there is no time, it can last as long as you want it to. Some beings have little need for this and simply "wash off" their human form/habits and feel no need to play around with those earthly desires, while others feel a great attraction to do so. And then, you will eventually and inevitably become mentally bored with that, and you move beyond this orientation point and go back to spiritual study, examining various past life decisions/behavior, and planning future incarnations with your "soul cluster" that will further elevate and balance your karma.
Someone on this forum once posted that on the devachanic plane you experience all of your desires from life.
In the astral plane when I'm dreaming my sense of smell is not all that, so I can't imagine how real things will seem.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - anagogy - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 07:48 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Someone on this forum once posted that on the devachanic plane you experience all of your desires from life.
In the astral plane when I'm dreaming my sense of smell is not all that, so I can't imagine how real things will seem.
That could be true about the devachanic plane, but I'm not sure. My understanding of the devachanic/mental plane is that it involves seeing the archetypal mental conceptual structures beneath all form. So, you might be able to experience something of that nature, but it would be like seeing it in a somewhat abstract and fundamental way. Like seeing the elements of consciousness that make a particular reality "what it is" at a functional level. I could be completely wrong.
And as for the astral and dreaming, two things: first of all, oftentimes what we call dreams are a LOT more real than we remember them as. I'm serious. I've done a lot of experimentation in this department, and I can often hold onto the memory of "holy crap, this is soooo freaking real", but I often cannot hold onto the solid memory of the realness qualia itself. It is frustrating, but subtle memories do not impress upon the physical brain very strongly (at least, mine don't).
Secondly, when we dream at night, we are usually in the lower astral or what I call "the orange ray layer", which is the "focus" of personal self. It is like entering the realm of your own subconscious mind. It is extremely topsy turvy, and doesn't come close to the vividness you find in the yellow ray layer and higher, where there are "others" simultaneously contributing to the consensus realities. Those realities, are a LOT more stable and "real", much like the physical world is. When you are the sole occupant of a reality, it changes constantly (perhaps due to our lack of mental control). Shared realities are much more coherent. They are still malleable, but there is a slight resistance to change which gives it a "satisfying" degree of stability even when your personal attention withdraws from them.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - AnthroHeart - 05-07-2016
Thanks anagogy. It may be tough finding others who want to experience a yellow ray dream together, with the same topics. So if there are other dream characters in it, does that mean it becomes yellow-ray?
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - anagogy - 05-07-2016
No because most of the characters we see in dreams are just projections of our subconscious -- they are 1 dimensional and hollow in a way. It doesn't become yellow ray till you reach the "borders of your imagination", which is to say, your experience begins to merge with others imaginations as well (middle astral/yellow/interaction with others). Sort of like a blending of consciousness. You sort of just get an inner feel for who are "real people" and who are projections of your own mind. Your intuition becomes more acute, you just "know", in the same way that you "know" you aren't dreaming right now. You sense another mind there. But you can also, without warning, drop back down to the "personal level" at any point, and hallucinate again. It takes a degree of control.
RE: Unity and the Afterlife - Infinite Unity - 11-02-2018
(05-04-2016, 07:54 PM)anagogy Wrote:(05-04-2016, 04:01 PM)Papercut Wrote: Greetings,
There's something that has been on my mind but I'm having a difficulty expressing it so I back out every time from posting due to distortion.
Anyhow I'll just type and see where it goes.
So, supposedly there is a higher consciousness upon this plane that we emerged from. Many times Ra have implied that there were individuals in the past who reached this High consciousness/unity to obtain knowledge.
Assuming that we go back to our spiritual selves after we die, and get in touch with this higher consciousness/unity. It would mean we already posses much knowledge than needed to move on from this 3rd density plane. So why do we choose to go back, forget everything and start from scratch and distortion.
This cannot be the first time I found myself upon incarnating.
Why would we make ourselves go through this suffering every time just to find the same answer and get lost once again.
I hope I'm clear enough and this isn't already distorted too far.
Just what is progress? If time is an illusion then why would we be "rewarded" by what we do here eg. being in Service to Others in this massively misunderstood distortion.
I'm speaking to those whom experienced this very illusion of time, you know what I mean. The past does not exist nor does it matter. So why, why would I be harvested based on illusion within an illusionary idea of a past?
The growth is not for what the growth will net us. For we are already the creator, and we are already perfect, all knowing, all powerful, perfect peace, perfect love, perfect wisdom. Thus, there is no reward for good behavior or punishment for bad behavior. Karma is just imbalance attracting those experiences which create balance.
We incarnate to experience growth for growth itself. The experience of growth is what puts the "aliveness" in LIFE. That is hard for us to understand from this incarnate vantage point, but the experience of growth, on all levels of consciousness, is the most sought after experience of infinite intelligence. It gives meaning to infinite intelligence. The creator knows itself through the growth of all forms. Growth can oftentimes seem painful. That's true. But before you came into this life, you were absolutely THRILLED to have the opportunity to "play the Earth school game". From your spiritual vantage point, although knowing it would be challenging, you knew that afterwards it would be an extremely cherished and unique one of a kind experience. From the discarnate vantage point of pure peace, we don't fear the circumstances of incarnation, we absolutely look forward to it and the "role" we will "play" upon the stage of life.
If it's any consolation, for every pain you experience there will eventually be the polar opposite healing experience. In the end all distortions are completely balanced out, so no matter how wounded we become, we will eventually be healed completely, just as surely as the ripples on a pond will eventually become still. Everything balances out in the end. Everything is healed - mind, body, and spirit.
Essentially, as the creator, we pretend to be undeveloped precisely for the reason that we can then pretend to develop. It is a spiritual game that infinity has/is/always will be playing. This can be depressing for some people when they are in the midst of uncomfortable growing pains, but if it's any consolation, the more growth we achieve, the less "contrasting" the incarnate lessons are. In other words, the growth lessons become softer and more refined as we become more spiritually aware and no longer need aversive catalyst to motivate us to seek after "better circumstances".
Rocking post!!
Another way is to imagine not being able to move, being literally the only one. Then imagiine the opportunity/potential be found/created, and what that entails. The thrill of being alive, of learning, of kinetic energy exchanged, of actions and reactions. Haahahhaahha The Thrill to be ALIVE, The spirit of us!!!!! Awhooooooooooooo!!!