(09-23-2015, 02:21 PM)Jade Wrote: This is not about individual polarity at all, for me. It's about the global consciousness. Does anyone here think that slaughterhouses, factory farms, etc will still be around when we are well-swung into 4D? So if one wants to help usher in a new Earth, why participate in structures that are so very separatist and 3D? I mean, obviously that question is hypothetical - we are all here to participate in the separation of 3D, but as Wanderers we are also here to help make the transition to 4D+ smoother. I try to follow the 'be the change you wish to see' mantra as much as possible - I don't meditate for a better frame of mind, and go out into the world every day and smile at and be gracious with people, and give money to the homeless, and not eat animals because it polarizes me - I do this because I want to alleviate the overall suffering of the planet, and help expedite its transition into its new being. I understand that it's still possible to participate in consumption of animals and still help eliminate suffering, but to say one is removed from the responsibility of the tortured/murdered lifeforms because they merely purchase them at the grocery store is a huge disconnect.

Jade Wrote:So obviously, I don't think that everyone who eats meat is service to self oriented by any means. In fact, I think it's a noble self-service if you truly honestly believe you need meat to be healthy and functional, and you consume it: you are doing what you truly think is best for your body. I think really what's going on is that most people are engaging in unconscious catalyst when they eat, as most people are doing with most things they do in a day. But, we truly can use any catalyst for any type of polarization/work, I do believe that. I just love our little cow and chicken buddies so much I can't help but feel like I should speak my mind on the topic when the path has been opened before me. And especially when people deny a cow's ability to read 3D awareness - when I see people make statements like that about animals (or about eating them because they are lower consciousness), I try to imagine a step up in densities, a 4th density looking at humans and thinking "Look at them, they are unable to reach 4D awareness with their simple little bodies and brains, their beingness is ours for the plunder! Oh wait - that one special one IS close to 4D - he's cool, let him be."

Quote:I was reading a bit about Native Americans who were not veiled as we are and many lived in societies that are not violent as our modern day Western societies are, and they most definitely did eat meat. They raised turkeys for feathers and meat, they hunted and fished. They were not vegan.  Eating meat has been part of the evolution of humans. do we honor that? do we judge it? do we accept it?

(09-27-2015, 10:52 AM)Shemaya Wrote: It's true that self-care is vital in order to be able to truly love others.  There are people who have been vegan who returned to meat products for health reasons just as the vice versa is true.

(09-27-2015, 10:52 AM)Shemaya Wrote: An attitude of non- violence and non- cruelty is essential for 4D awareness.

(09-27-2015, 10:52 AM)Shemaya Wrote:   An attitude of non- violence and non- cruelty is essential for 4D awareness.  I think that everyone on these boards would agree to that.  As I read these threads  on diet I have read repeatedly that so- called, self- professed "wanderers" , by eating meat, are advocating violence and cruelty.  not true, very far from the truth in fact and also a disrespectful thing to say.  ( not that you said such a thing, Jade!)

Quote:I understand that it's still possible to participate in consumption of animals and still help eliminate suffering, but to say one is removed from the responsibility of the tortured/murdered lifeforms because they merely purchase them at the grocery store is a huge disconnect.

(09-27-2015, 03:17 PM)LDiana Wrote:

(09-27-2015, 10:52 AM)Shemaya Wrote:   An attitude of non- violence and non- cruelty is essential for 4D awareness.  I think that everyone on these boards would agree to that.  As I read these threads  on diet I have read repeatedly that so- called, self- professed "wanderers" , by eating meat, are advocating violence and cruelty.  not true, very far from the truth in fact and also a disrespectful thing to say.  ( not that you said such a thing, Jade!)

Buying meat in the grocery store is supporting the factory farms where millions of animals suffer. This either consciously or unconsciously contributes to the supply and demand. I'm afraid there is no getting out of that, and saying so disrespects no one. It is a fact.

And Jade said the following by the way, in case you are inclined to be judgmental toward only specific individuals:

Quote:I understand that it's still possible to participate in consumption of animals and still help eliminate suffering, but to say one is removed from the responsibility of the tortured/murdered lifeforms because they merely purchase them at the grocery store is a huge disconnect.

(09-27-2015, 04:50 PM)Shemaya Wrote: It's not like just because someone is vegan they can wash their hands of this exploitative system.   

(09-27-2015, 05:24 PM)Diana Wrote:

(09-27-2015, 04:50 PM)Shemaya Wrote: It's not like just because someone is vegan they can wash their hands of this exploitative system.   

If you will read what vegans and vegetarians have said in these threads without prejudice, you will know that no one has even implied that. 

Your concerns seem to center around humans only. I can understand that, as that mindset is how most people think. But my views include all life forms.

(09-27-2015, 04:50 PM)Shemaya Wrote: It is true that it's a horrible system of exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation across the board for our agriculture / food, and our global economy.

(09-27-2015, 04:50 PM)Shemaya Wrote: It is also a fact that buying many things at the grocery store like avocados, cashews, almonds, and quinoa for example, support systems of human exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation in a capitalistic system of exploitive accumulation of profit and wealth.  Buying anything contributes to supply and demand.  Meat is not the only grocery store item that causes harm, or is produced/ harvested violently.  I think it is a huge disconnect to have the view that only meat or dairy consumption is responsible for suffering and enslavement, it just is not true.

(09-28-2015, 12:15 PM)Icaro Wrote:

(09-27-2015, 04:50 PM)Shemaya Wrote: It is true that it's a horrible system of exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation across the board for our agriculture / food, and our global economy.

It's true, we unfortunately can't exist in modern society without being connected to all sorts of horrible things. We can make an attempt at living ethically as best as possible, but I think a central aspect that is missing in the general population as a whole is not what is ultimately right or wrong, but an attitude of sacredness and gratefulness.

Icaro Wrote:So I'm not sure that consumption/materialism is the issue, but rather we consume things hollowly. I think the first step then is to start cultivating that awareness at meals or when things are purchased. Blessing food, meat or otherwise, and cherishing material goods should not only have a vibrational effect, but the awareness alone of things being sacred creates the condition where things are appreciated and less likely to be abused/consumed blindly.

Icaro Wrote:So I'm not sure that consumption/materialism is the issue, but rather we consume things hollowly. I think the first step then is to start cultivating that awareness at meals or when things are purchased. Blessing food, meat or otherwise, and cherishing material goods should not only have a vibrational effect, but the awareness alone of things being sacred creates the condition where things are appreciated and less likely to be abused/consumed blindly.

I can see how basically the spirit of things has vanished creating a void because we don't feed it, and it has gone extremely hungry and is devouring everything around it. By feeding the spirit, things should begin to change.

(09-28-2015, 05:52 PM)Diana Wrote:

(09-27-2015, 04:50 PM)Shemaya Wrote: It is also a fact that buying many things at the grocery store like avocados, cashews, almonds, and quinoa for example, support systems of human exploitation, enslavement and environmental degradation in a capitalistic system of exploitive accumulation of profit and wealth.  Buying anything contributes to supply and demand.  Meat is not the only grocery store item that causes harm, or is produced/ harvested violently.  I think it is a huge disconnect to have the view that only meat or dairy consumption is responsible for suffering and enslavement, it just is not true.

No one said that meat and dairy consumption are the only areas responsible for suffering and enslavement.

This thread is about eating meat. And it is undeniable that meat eating causes suffering and enslavement. I agree that there is a large overview to look at. And within the context of eating animals, for the good of the WORLD, it would be better to cease this unnecessary consumption. Growing food for humans and not the meat animals alone would ease much human as well as animal suffering.

Diana Wrote:If anyone is waiting around for the transnational corporations raking in the profits to lead the way into a loving future, good luck. I think it must begin with personal change. Stop supporting cruelty in the ways that you can. One EASY way is to stop eating grocery store meat from factory farms. I say EASY because it is doable, barring addictions, taste, habits, comfort, unconsciousness, etc. So perhaps it's not easy for the individual in some cases, but what is the alternative?

(09-29-2015, 01:31 PM)Shemaya Wrote:  It is a naive and unsophisticated argument to place the blame of participating and supporting those lower energies on only "meat-eaters" or omnivores. 

...

This is likely one reason why there is so much backlash in threads like this. When looking at the whole picture with an understanding that consciousness and energy are fundamental and the foundation of our existence, we can see that the STS System that we live in is fundamentally exploiting all Life.

We have the power to free our consciousness from that however by understanding that we are all things. By shifting our perception of identity. Therefore, I am male, I am female, I am white, I am black, I am vegan, I am pescetarian, I am omnivore. I am all of these and none of these.  If I identify with Light and Love, rather than my form, it is less distorted to make choices in alignment with that identity. Identifying with love and light places one in alignment with the energy of appreciating the sacredness of all Life.

...

Again, the awareness of the sacredness of all life is what the pre-veil humans knew with much less distortion than us.  It makes total sense, as we nourish our Spirit with love and light , the natural flow will be one of freedom, symbiosis, cooperation, community.

(09-29-2015, 01:31 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Yes, that is what the pre-veil humans had in spades, a strong connection to God/ OIC/ Spirit and they were very conscious of the sacredness of life. They were aware of the cycles, the circle of life that is designed into this planet. They didn't fear death as many do in veiled conditions. They understood the body, whether human animal or turkey animal, is a vessel for the creator and true identity is not our form, but our Soul.

(09-29-2015, 02:34 PM)Shemaya Wrote: What exactly do you think was a sugar coated dig??

My opinion that these arguments are silly and unsophisticated sometimes?  Well, I think that is true, and it is not a dig. It is my perception, it is what I have observed.  

I wasn't talking about you personally Diana, and I would say it is a little out of line to make an assumption that I was.   It makes the discussion silly

And the thread is about whether pre-veil humans ate meat, which is what I was talking about.

(09-29-2015, 03:28 PM)Icaro Wrote:

(09-29-2015, 01:31 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Yes, that is what the pre-veil humans had in spades, a strong connection to God/ OIC/ Spirit and they were very conscious of the sacredness of life. They were aware of the cycles, the circle of life that is designed into this planet. They didn't fear death as many do in veiled conditions. They understood the body, whether human animal or turkey animal, is a vessel for the creator and true identity is not our form, but our Soul.

Sure, I wouldn't limit it to pre-veil though, all tribal/indigenous cultures do this. I think it's a good thing to cultivate.

".. and if possible, moving through this gateway, the penetration of violet-ray intelligent infinity. This may be seen to be manifested by a sense of the consecrate or hallowed nature of everyday creations and activities."

Quote:10.15 Questioner: [I] was wondering about the advent of the civilization called Atlantis and Lemuria, the way these civilizations occurred, and where did they come from [inaudible] civilizations?

Ra: I am Ra. This is the last question of this work. The civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria were not one but two. Let us look first at the Mu entities.

They were beings of a somewhat primitive nature, but those who had very advanced spiritual distortions. The civilization was part of this cycle, experienced early within the cycle at a time of approximately five three oh oh oh, fifty-three thousand [53,000] of your years ago. It was an helpful and harmless place which was washed beneath the ocean during a readjustment of your sphere’s tectonic plates through no action of their own. They set out those who survived and reached many places in what you call Russia, North America, and South America. The Indians of whom you have come to feel some sympathy in your social complex distortions are the descendants of these entities. Like the other incarnates of this cycle, they came from elsewhere. However, these particular entities were largely drawn from a second-density planet which had some difficulty, due to the age of its sun, in achieving third-density life conditions. This planet was from the galaxy Deneb.

(09-29-2015, 06:47 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: A pig will eat anything. Even a dead rat.

(09-29-2015, 06:47 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: A pig will eat anything. Even a dead rat.

(09-29-2015, 07:07 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Geez, if he does that, how will he make it to 3D?

(09-29-2015, 06:30 PM)Monica Wrote: Speaking of silly, all This talk about indigenous peoples eating meat reminds me of that silly argument

(09-29-2015, 08:49 PM)Icaro Wrote: Speaking for myself, I didn't bring up the idea of indigenous people eating meat as an argument specifically (though it may have seemed that way), but rather that everything is done with reverence. I'm making the argument that once any sort of reverence or respect is gone, it makes way for what we have now. It makes sense then that restoring the sanctity of life into the collective consciousness is a step in the right direction.