(11-17-2011, 02:52 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:

(11-16-2011, 02:09 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: IMO, the best way to proceed is to raise animals your way, and be happy that it is enough. Cuz if you ain't happy, you ain't helping the world's happiness meter.

I wonder how much all those millions of animals being tortured on a daily basis, is affecting the world's happiness

(11-17-2011, 07:04 AM)_X7 Wrote: I like the way Monica moderates the ad hominem attacks on food-harmonizers. Character assassination and covert distractions can or should sharpen the STO wits. QED

(11-16-2011, 11:18 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:

(11-16-2011, 08:53 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(11-16-2011, 08:49 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(11-16-2011, 08:07 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I remember that conversation, Monkey. You know I never said those things.

(11-12-2011, 03:31 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Since you think it's ok to let a person kill a child, then am I "looking down on you" if I voice my opinion that it's not ok?

(11-12-2011, 03:31 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I can understand why someone who thinks allowing a murderer to kill a child, might feel that way.

Your views are very strange to me, Monkey.

For clarification, this is not me being angry that Monica said these things.

This is me demonstrating that I have not said anything more worthy of "invoking rules" than Monica has.

Monkey, by digging up old quotes and quoting them out of context. You know full well that I was incredulous at the time, after you explicitly said you were in favor of letting the murderer kill the child. There was no misunderstanding there. You have repeatedly stated this. All I did was echo it back to you, trying to get clarification.

You never denied believing that killers should be allowed to kill children, and in fact repeated it again and again. And now you throw it back at me, for repeating what you said yourself?

You are misrepresenting me, by quoting just snippets of the conversation. You are leaving out your part, where you were the one saying "those things" you now accuse me of, as though so awful.

This has to stop here. This thread has degenerated into petty bickering. I have asked you to pm me if you have a grievance, rather than continuing to post inflammatory and accusatory statements directed at me or anyone else.

(11-17-2011, 06:21 AM)@ndy Wrote: I'm wondering why some people feel guilt about eating meat, and others don't?

(11-16-2011, 05:22 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I care about humans more than animals.

Quote:Questioner: Can you describe the mechanism of the planetary healing?

Ra: I am Ra. Healing is a process of acceptance, forgiveness, and, if possible, restitution. The restitution not being available in time/space, there are many among your peoples now attempting restitution while in the physical.

(11-17-2011, 12:32 PM)Pickle Wrote: The sto/sts concept is how it appears to me.

(11-17-2011, 06:21 AM)@ndy Wrote: I'm wondering why some people feel guilt about eating meat, and others don't?

I guess the people who don't either don't care, rationalise, forgive the feeling or maybe see all as perfect as it is.

I find it odd to have an order of importance/care... with humans being most important, then animals, then fish bugs plants and so on. I guess it seems hierarchical to me.


Perhaps I’m just an earthling – but I kind of find the way stuff works down here pretty amazing and awesome, the food chain connects us all.
In a world with no hunting there would be no cat’s or dogs, no owls, or eagles.

(11-17-2011, 07:42 AM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 02:52 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:

(11-16-2011, 02:09 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: IMO, the best way to proceed is to raise animals your way, and be happy that it is enough. Cuz if you ain't happy, you ain't helping the world's happiness meter.

I wonder how much all those millions of animals being tortured on a daily basis, is affecting the world's happiness

I seriously doubt any at all. If I may, this is what I've been repeating
many times and in many ways throughout this thread, and I have been consistent.

(11-17-2011, 01:02 PM)Diana Wrote: Monkey, she means the unhappiness of the animals.

(11-17-2011, 01:22 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:02 PM)Diana Wrote: Monkey, she means the unhappiness of the animals.

Oh. .... I wonder. .... Maybe they have found a "happy place" to accept the person with the knife. There is no way to know...

(11-17-2011, 12:32 PM)Pickle Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 06:21 AM)@ndy Wrote: I'm wondering why some people feel guilt about eating meat, and others don't?

It may be focus. An individual that keeps the focus on themself or gratification will feel no guilt at all.

Some individuals put the focus of importance on others above themself. You will see some that will feed others before themself. They keep the focus of well being of others above themself. The sto/sts concept is how it appears to me.

(11-16-2011, 05:22 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I care about humans more than animals.

This does not fit me so well, I almost like animals more than people. Instinct may cause me to save a person before an animal, but with enough thought I may do the opposite, depending on the nature of the individual.

---

Quote:Questioner: Can you describe the mechanism of the planetary healing?

Ra: I am Ra. Healing is a process of acceptance, forgiveness, and, if possible, restitution. The restitution not being available in time/space, there are many among your peoples now attempting restitution while in the physical.

(11-17-2011, 01:24 PM)Diana Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:22 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:02 PM)Diana Wrote: Monkey, she means the unhappiness of the animals.

Oh. .... I wonder. .... Maybe they have found a "happy place" to accept the person with the knife. There is no way to know...

You claimed to have seen feedlots, then you must know they aren't happy. Have you seen them lined up for slaughter? They are terrified.

(11-17-2011, 01:29 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: That's a good quote.

About loving animals more than humans. I have found that to be largely the case with animal lovers. I know a specific person, not on this forum, who will save a lady bug then turn right around and berate an overweight person. This person is also very unforgiving toward children and is unaware that they are not adults in small bodies. I think it has something to do with considering an animal's ignorance to be its disposition requiring .... restitution?

(11-17-2011, 01:36 PM)Meerie Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:29 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: That's a good quote.

About loving animals more than humans. I have found that to be largely the case with animal lovers. I know a specific person, not on this forum, who will save a lady bug then turn right around and berate an overweight person. This person is also very unforgiving toward children and is unaware that they are not adults in small bodies. I think it has something to do with considering an animal's ignorance to be its disposition requiring .... restitution?

you could be right. A famous example would be Brigitte Bardot.
I think I read a study somewhere that people who have been let down by others will turn to love animals more than humans instead. Because they won't disappoint them the same way than humans.

(11-17-2011, 01:29 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Diana, I have no idea what my wife is thinking. I can't possible know what a cow thinks. I have the power to choose to believe they are all happy to be contributing to the One. Just like I have the power to think that lettuce is happy to become One with me as I chew. The principle here is using my thought for good.

(11-08-2011, 02:21 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Have they tried Dr. Cousens' solution for being vegetarian?

.......

Even IF Ra is saying eating meat is ok, and that's a very big IF because Ra is very selective about choice of words, and it's significant that the carefully worded animal products was chosen instead of meat...but even if Ra is saying some people might need meat because of their metabolism, Ra very clearly said to the extent necessary.

It has been proven that a vegetarian diet is adequate for the human body. Not only that, but vegetarians have much less risk for nearly every disease.

Even so, some people do indeed crave meat. Why? Because their bodies are in transition. Also because foods don't have the nutrients they're supposed to, because of chemical farming methods.

But there are solutions to this: superfoods. As explained by Dr. Gabriel Cousens, they fill in the gap.

Not only that, but aren't we supposed to be evolving? Metabolism can change.

(11-17-2011, 01:36 PM)Meerie Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:29 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: That's a good quote.

About loving animals more than humans. I have found that to be largely the case with animal lovers. I know a specific person, not on this forum, who will save a lady bug then turn right around and berate an overweight person. This person is also very unforgiving toward children and is unaware that they are not adults in small bodies. I think it has something to do with considering an animal's ignorance to be its disposition requiring .... restitution?

you could be right. A famous example would be Brigitte Bardot.
I think I read a study somewhere that people who have been let down by others will turn to love animals more than humans instead. Because they won't disappoint them the same way than humans.

(11-17-2011, 01:50 PM)Diana Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:29 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Diana, I have no idea what my wife is thinking. I can't possible know what a cow thinks. I have the power to choose to believe they are all happy to be contributing to the One. Just like I have the power to think that lettuce is happy to become One with me as I chew. The principle here is using my thought for good.

Point taken. I agree with using thought for good, and that thoughts are as harmful as physical things.

I want to optimize my existence. Some people say that everything is polluted so why try to quit smoking, or eat better, etc. I say, do the best you can with everything you can.

It seems obvious to me to choose not to participate in the cruel treatment of meat-animals (although I recognize that that is only my feeling). I could justify it--perhaps rightly so--by saying that the "higher selves" of the animals are on board with it. But that doesn't change that cruelty is undesirable.

It is not my intention to take away from anyone else's choices. I do feel compelled to evolve. My evolution is enmeshed with general evolution, which suggests to me, that my choices are not disconnected from the whole. Which suggests, conversely, that your choices are not disconnected from me.

We are evolving as a species as well as individuals. We are part of a system. When electrons supposedly pop in and out existence, it is my theory that they are part of a system beyond our 3D, part of which we have no access to. All life here is a part of a system, but is also part of a greater system, possibly ad infinitum.

So acceptance of free will, yes, but collective responsibility is also a consideration.

(11-17-2011, 12:50 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 12:32 PM)Pickle Wrote: The sto/sts concept is how it appears to me.

Could you expand on what you mean by that? Are you saying it's STO to feel guilty about eating meat but STS not to feel guilty? Or that it's STO not to eat meat but STS to eat meat? Or something else?

(11-17-2011, 02:00 PM)Diana Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:36 PM)Meerie Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:29 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: That's a good quote.

About loving animals more than humans. I have found that to be largely the case with animal lovers. I know a specific person, not on this forum, who will save a lady bug then turn right around and berate an overweight person. This person is also very unforgiving toward children and is unaware that they are not adults in small bodies. I think it has something to do with considering an animal's ignorance to be its disposition requiring .... restitution?

you could be right. A famous example would be Brigitte Bardot.
I think I read a study somewhere that people who have been let down by others will turn to love animals more than humans instead. Because they won't disappoint them the same way than humans.

There may be people like that. But the individuals on this site are thinking, intelligent, spiritually minded people (I assume).

The reason could be that humans have a collective responsibility for the harm done to this planet in so many ways. Animals live in equilibrium and are not culpable. They have intent to survive and not to destroy. You may be able to cite an example of an alpha male killing another male, but this is survival.

So the general feeling toward animals is that they are innocent of the planet's trouble. Humans aren't innocent, collectively even. There have been times in my life when I have despised the human race. Of course I transmute that negative thought. But I have no such feelings about animals.

(11-17-2011, 01:47 PM)Meerie Wrote: you have a dog? really? (or are you talking about a stuffed animal)

(11-17-2011, 01:44 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I mean, let's be honest, I obviously love my pet dog more than I love the starving children in Africa.

(11-17-2011, 02:16 PM)Pickle Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 01:44 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I mean, let's be honest, I obviously love my pet dog more than I love the starving children in Africa.

I would put an underprivileged child above a child in the states. But I am on the opposite side of the world, in the middle of overprivileged folks.

(11-17-2011, 02:06 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: As for animals not being culpable. I don't agree. I don't even understand how to sympathize/empathize* with that. (* whichever one you take to mean feel the same feelings as someone else) For instance, I don't even know the justifications that would be necessary to create my mindset to think that way.

---

(11-17-2011, 02:23 PM)Diana Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 02:06 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: As for animals not being culpable. I don't agree. I don't even understand how to sympathize/empathize* with that. (* whichever one you take to mean feel the same feelings as someone else) For instance, I don't even know the justifications that would be necessary to create my mindset to think that way.

---

Holes in the ozone come to mind. Humans have cut down the rain forests, over-mined resources from the Earth, polluted the oceans, taken over habitats, etc, etc. And, the salient point is, humans have taken more than they need. Out of selfishness, greed, unconsciousness.

What have animals done to contribute to the destruction of the life here (including the planet, which I consider live)?

Quote:We have advised and suggested caution and patience in previous communications and do so again, using this entity as an example of the over-hasty opening of polarization without due attention to the synthesized and integrated mind/body/spirit complex. To know your self is to have the foundation upon firm ground.

(11-17-2011, 02:06 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: As for animals not being culpable. I don't agree. I don't even understand how to sympathize/empathize* with that. (* whichever one you take to mean feel the same feelings as someone else) For instance, I don't even know the justifications that would be necessary to create my mindset to think that way.

(11-17-2011, 02:30 PM)Pickle Wrote:

Quote:We have advised and suggested caution and patience in previous communications and do so again, using this entity as an example of the over-hasty opening of polarization without due attention to the synthesized and integrated mind/body/spirit complex. To know your self is to have the foundation upon firm ground.

I am pretty sure the "self" in context is the inner portion that is hidden behind ego and gratification.

I may love corn, while the inner self will advise me that corn is detrimental to my health.(organic or not) Is it best for me to ignore the inner self and continue with my gratification?

This is the concept I would promote. Learn who/what/why of the inner self, then attempt to apply it to the outer self (ego) and you will speed up the process you are here for.

(11-17-2011, 02:27 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 02:23 PM)Diana Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 02:06 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: As for animals not being culpable. I don't agree. I don't even understand how to sympathize/empathize* with that. (* whichever one you take to mean feel the same feelings as someone else) For instance, I don't even know the justifications that would be necessary to create my mindset to think that way.

---

Holes in the ozone come to mind. Humans have cut down the rain forests, over-mined resources from the Earth, polluted the oceans, taken over habitats, etc, etc. And, the salient point is, humans have taken more than they need. Out of selfishness, greed, unconsciousness.

What have animals done to contribute to the destruction of the life here (including the planet, which I consider live)?

I'll just say I don't think that way. I wouldn't make those connections from A to B.

(11-17-2011, 02:36 PM)Diana Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 02:27 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 02:23 PM)Diana Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 02:06 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: As for animals not being culpable. I don't agree. I don't even understand how to sympathize/empathize* with that. (* whichever one you take to mean feel the same feelings as someone else) For instance, I don't even know the justifications that would be necessary to create my mindset to think that way.

---

Holes in the ozone come to mind. Humans have cut down the rain forests, over-mined resources from the Earth, polluted the oceans, taken over habitats, etc, etc. And, the salient point is, humans have taken more than they need. Out of selfishness, greed, unconsciousness.

What have animals done to contribute to the destruction of the life here (including the planet, which I consider live)?

I'll just say I don't think that way. I wouldn't make those connections from A to B.

Okay, accepted. But I was positing why some people might have more concern for animals than humans. Or rather, feel that animals deserve concern over humans. Just a theory.

(11-17-2011, 02:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: If you were to go back in this thread far enough, you'd find my original entry that brought Monica and I into our food relationship. It was me, conceding that my "self" was telling me not to eat meat. It turned out to be for fasting reasons that it "spoke" to me.

(11-17-2011, 02:56 PM)Pickle Wrote:

(11-17-2011, 02:36 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: If you were to go back in this thread far enough, you'd find my original entry that brought Monica and I into our food relationship. It was me, conceding that my "self" was telling me not to eat meat. It turned out to be for fasting reasons that it "spoke" to me.

If you put enough investigation into this occurence, you will see that the issue comes up as a way to eliminate an overburden of toxins. (physical and spiritual) It may even be that it was a message your waking mind took to have temporary meaning. That is, you may not always get this helping hand at extending your health. If you made no permanent changes as a result of the message then the message was not retrieved.