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+--- Thread: The elephant in the room. (/showthread.php?tid=7297)
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 05:33 PM)TheEternal Wrote: So what is the part of you that is human going to do with its choice?
We can talk about our infinite godhood and whatnot to the ends of the Earth, but we are still here and we still have to choose.
I am going to make something people will enjoy, as I've rambled on about. That's the choice I want to make: To make something people enjoy. Whether it be a technology, a business or an entirely new nation.
Since I try to act as the creator, I am going to be a creator in this life once I am properly disciplined. I don't know where this goes on the duality because what I want to do serves me as well as it could serve others. I've always seen my "selflessness" acting as "selfishness" and my "selfishness" acting as "selflessness".
What are you going to do with your choice?
RE: The elephant in the room. - Spaced - 05-29-2013
It is important to remember that we are in 3rd density which is (drumroll please) the density of choice! Yes our consciousness allows for us to be the killer or the saint . . . but only if that is what you choose to be, if those are the energies that you choose to focus on. It would be difficult to be saintly if you are also being murderous and vice versa, likely you would fall somewhere in between, along with those enjoying the sinkhole of indifference as Ra calls it, unable to build the 'spiritual momentum' required for graduation into the next density. At our state of development we cannot grasp the whole picture, our minds and our scope of awareness simply don't allow us to. In order to advance further we need to choose a path which will help us to develop further and only after much development can we truly understand what it means to be one with everything. At this point maybe the lines between murderer and saint might blur . . .
In any case, we are here to choose which aspect of the creator we wish to develop. We can't do it all (that's why there are so many of us, so we can all play our own part) what's important is to choose who YOU want to be and the most effective choices, when it comes to spiritual development, seem to fall on either end of the spectrum of service to self and service to others. To say you want to keep all choices open is simply refusing to choose.
I hope this post makes sense
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 05:38 PM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 05:33 PM)TheEternal Wrote: So what is the part of you that is human going to do with its choice?
We can talk about our infinite godhood and whatnot to the ends of the Earth, but we are still here and we still have to choose.
I am going to make something people will enjoy, as I've rambled on about. That's the choice I want to make: To make something people enjoy. Whether it be a technology, a business or an entirely new nation.
Since I try to act as the creator, I am going to be a creator in this life once I am properly disciplined. I don't know where this goes on the duality because what I want to do serves me as well as it could serve others. I've always seen my "selflessness" acting as "selfishness" and my "selfishness" acting as "selflessness".
What are you going to do with your choice?
As I said to you before, do everything in my power to aid life. I seek to use my choice as an example so that everyone can see the choice is there. It is my choice to spread awareness of the choice.
RE: The elephant in the room. - AnthroHeart - 05-29-2013
My choice in life is to learn/teach whatever I can. And to experience for Creator.
Whether I am working, or have to be on disability for that, doesn't impact my learning. Or should I say, whether or not I have the courage to work.
RE: The elephant in the room. - xise - 05-29-2013
I think by time we awaken, we've already made the choice deep inside of us. The question is to discover which path best radiates our inner being. That answer comes not from the mind, but from self-discover of our inner vibration energy, and usually involves sensitivity to our own energy centers in various interactions with other selves.
I believe that the non-existence of duality in mid-6th stems not from an intellectual realization that all paths are equal and have value.
I believe that the non-existence of duality in mid-6th stems from an vibrational sensitivity to unity:
-In 3d, we have many individuals who already feel energies and emotions from others. I know I sometimes have trouble identifying the origin of some frustration only to realize I'm picking it up from the person beside me.
-In 3d, when I pick up a crystal that I connect with, I feel it vibrate as if it is one of my energy centers outside my body - yet I feel it as if it is a part of me.
-In 3d, many talk of their children as feeling as if they are a part of them.
-In 4d, we're telepathic. We form social memory complexes. We vibrationally understand that thoughts come from all around us.
-In higher densities, distance and time have no meaning as we learn to manipulate great distances by ourself.
-I believe in 5d, and 6d, the distinction between self and other selves is further blurred at a vibration level where we the soil, the wind, the trees, become and feel like they are a part of that being. As we progress into higher densities, our experiences with other selfs and entities and our experiences become blurred, as experientially the experiences we have with others and the self become indistinguishable, at an energetic level.
Thus, if it is true non-duality that we seek, I think it comes from that process, of actually transforming (or recognizing vibrationally) the self into that unity. And as a part of that process, Ra espouses that there are two most helpful paths - the sts path one where the unity is seen as the self being primary, and the other selves are ones to be controlled in the service of the self's vision of the unity, the sto path where the unity is seen as all selves having value, and love to and light to be radiated and to service of all selves of the unity.
True non-duality doesn't come from intellectually recognizing that good/evil is a matter of perspective. That is only a very small part of the equation, and I think that alone, as others have said, does not help you evolve toward true non-duality by becoming the unity in all things - after all we've had the philosophical idea that good/evil is a matter of perspective for thousands of years, and that alone has done little in either balancing or polarizing individuals over the course of centuries.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
I disagree on your last point. All people have not yet realized they create their own reality and that they create their own morality. People have yet to embrace a subjective reality for it entails responsibility.
When people take ownership and responsibility over their lives, life could potentially be a lot better. It would mean people would take responsibility over their choices -- and I think we are all advocating that here. We are indirectly advocating responsibility.
I'm a nihilist and I always will be a nihilist for when one refuses to believe in nothing, they begin to embrace everything. My love will continue to shine towards all things.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
I dread the idea of "always" being anything, how boring! Hehe
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 06:30 PM)TheEternal Wrote: I dread the idea of "always" being anything, how boring! Hehe
Let me show my true colors:
If I have a role, Eternal, I'm a rebel. I will defy the universe if I have to if my will is made forbidden. It would my responsibility to defy it.
If I ever get an obligation to do something other than my true will, than be who I am in this Galaxy, I will defy it. If I become forbidden to move to another realm of my preference due to a supposed lack of "polarity", I will defy it. If I am told who I am is unacceptable, I will defy it.
Why should one be obligated to some supposed journey set out in one universe? In one mere universe, one mere creation out of an endless amount? We are the Creator after all.
My role here is to be the rebel, the destroyer of barriers. If this universe tries to imprison me, I shall fight my way to another. No cage shall hold me for I have all of infinity to make sure my will is done. And my will shall be done.
I will grasp the power of intelligent infinity and traverse wherever I please. That's what I feel my ultimate role is.
I don't wish to be held down by anything. I will not be absorbed against my will. I will not be absorbed into a cause I do not believe in.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
Sounds like a tantrum, to me.
"Give me what I want, or else!"
You may go about your journey however you please, whatever feels right for you. The universe has surprises for us all no matter where we walk.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 06:40 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Sounds like a tantrum, to me.
"Give me what I want, or else!"
You may go about your journey however you please, whatever feels right for you. The universe has surprises for us all no matter where we walk.
The Creator had to reject some parts of himself to start many creations. Tantrums have their purpose. Revolutions have their purpose. Absolute submission leads to absolute destruction. Absolute compliance leads to an absolute void.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
At least, that is the way you have built these concepts in to a system in your mind. I could take the same concepts and rearrange them and different "conclusions" will be born.
We create our beliefs to support the pursuit of our desires and you, like myself and everyone else have shaped your perspective of the universe to be in support of what you see as your integral self.
Welcome to the game of reality.
RE: The elephant in the room. - xise - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 06:45 PM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 06:40 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Sounds like a tantrum, to me.
"Give me what I want, or else!"
You may go about your journey however you please, whatever feels right for you. The universe has surprises for us all no matter where we walk.
The Creator had to reject some parts of himself to start many creations. Tantrums have their purpose. Revolutions have their purpose. Absolute submission leads to absolute destruction. Absolute compliance leads to an absolute void.
You're getting into some serious yellow ray concepts with your last post. I like!
Yellow ray is soo important.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 06:48 PM)TheEternal Wrote: At least, that is the way you have built these concepts in to a system in your mind. I could take the same concepts and rearrange them and different "conclusions" will be born.
We create our beliefs to support the pursuit of our desires and you, like myself and everyone else have shaped your perspective of the universe to be in support of what you see as your integral self.
Welcome to the game of reality.
Here's what I am indirectly asking you: Is this philosophy I espouse one of any polarity? Or will I truly remain stagnant with these beliefs, these preferences of mine?
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
Look at your own words and you tell me. I don't believe anyone can determine another's polarity, Ra has said this.
However, this one part says much - "I will defy the universe if I have to if my will is made forbidden."
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:04 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Look at your own words and you tell me. I don't believe anyone can determine another's polarity, Ra has said this.
However, this one part says much - "I will defy the universe if I have to if my will is made forbidden."
Why would obedience be a requirement in a supposedly unconditionally loving universe? Why would resistance be put down like a government against its own people?
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
"The Abyss is guarded by the demon Choronzon, who manifests during the third, ceremonial method of crossing this gulf. He represents those parts of one's consciousness and unconsciousness -- "a momentary unity capable of sensation and of expression," in Crowley's terms[9] -- that are unwilling or unable to enter the Divine. "
"Choronzon - is Existential Self at the last gasp...Beyond Choronzon we are no longer our Self. The "personality" on the brink of the Abyss will do anything, say anything and find any excuse to avoid taking this disintegrating step into "non-being.""
One who fails to cross the abyss becomes a black brother, obsessed with the idea that their own ego is the highest state of being.
(05-29-2013, 07:14 PM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 07:04 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Look at your own words and you tell me. I don't believe anyone can determine another's polarity, Ra has said this.
However, this one part says much - "I will defy the universe if I have to if my will is made forbidden."
Why would obedience be a requirement in a supposedly unconditionally loving universe? Why would resistance be put down like a government against its own people?
Aha! A wall will stop a force because that is its nature as a wall. There is no obedience required, and there is nothing truly to resist against except the self.
There is an order to the universe, and the nature of that order does what it does in accordance with its nature.
"Why should one be obligated to some supposed journey set out in one universe?"
Why did you choose to come here to take the journey? Why did you choose to incarnate? Why did you choose to play a role in this universe?
Why did you choose to play the polarity game?
All your questions are answered when you remember why you made the choices you have.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:15 PM)TheEternal Wrote: "The Abyss is guarded by the demon Choronzon, who manifests during the third, ceremonial method of crossing this gulf. He represents those parts of one's consciousness and unconsciousness -- "a momentary unity capable of sensation and of expression," in Crowley's terms[9] -- that are unwilling or unable to enter the Divine. "
"Choronzon - is Existential Self at the last gasp...Beyond Choronzon we are no longer our Self. The "personality" on the brink of the Abyss will do anything, say anything and find any excuse to avoid taking this disintegrating step into "non-being.""
One who fails to cross the abyss becomes a black brother, obsessed with the idea that their own ego is the highest state of being.
So be it for those. If I am considered dark for valuing the creation of the self I have built since I emerged from the void, so be it. It will die when I inevitably have the will to surrender to the everything/nothingness once more but I refuse to see that as the end goal. I believe the perfection is now and when that now turns to surrender so be it.
The difference here, Eternal, is that I am not decieved. I do not think the universe is flawed. I only act according to my will, my nature and I feel it is my responsibility to follow that as it was within my will and as it was likely foreseen when I left the Creator himself.
I refuse to be decieved into believing that there is a strict path for if there was, as you speak below, the barriers would be far more stricter.
(05-29-2013, 07:15 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Aha! A wall will stop a force because that is its nature as a wall. There is no obedience required, and there is nothing truly to resist against except the self.
There is an order to the universe, and the nature of that order does what it does in accordance with its nature.
Heh, speaking of nature...
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
Most importantly, if you are THE all powerful Creator, why are you still here?
There is something I have learned of the utmost importance to my journey. I am the Creator, I am part of its process, a microcosm, but I am not THE One Infinite Creator. I hold equal potential, but only a fraction of the kinetic actualization.
As soon as you think you're done, you're going in circles.
Also, I will add this fun adage - "Wide is the path but narrow is the gate."
(05-29-2013, 07:24 PM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 07:15 PM)TheEternal Wrote: "The Abyss is guarded by the demon Choronzon, who manifests during the third, ceremonial method of crossing this gulf. He represents those parts of one's consciousness and unconsciousness -- "a momentary unity capable of sensation and of expression," in Crowley's terms[9] -- that are unwilling or unable to enter the Divine. "
"Choronzon - is Existential Self at the last gasp...Beyond Choronzon we are no longer our Self. The "personality" on the brink of the Abyss will do anything, say anything and find any excuse to avoid taking this disintegrating step into "non-being.""
One who fails to cross the abyss becomes a black brother, obsessed with the idea that their own ego is the highest state of being.
So be it for those. If I am considered dark for valuing the creation of the self I have built since I emerged from the void, so be it. It will die when I inevitably have the will to surrender to the everything/nothingness once more but I refuse to see that as the end goal. I believe the perfection is now and when that now turns to surrender so be it.
The difference here, Eternal, is that I am not decieved. I do not think the universe is flawed. I only act according to my will, my nature and I feel it is my responsibility to follow that as it was within my will and as it was likely foreseen when I left the Creator himself.
I refused to be decieved into believing that there is a strict path for if there was, as you speak below, the barriers would be far more stricter.
(05-29-2013, 07:15 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Aha! A wall will stop a force because that is its nature as a wall. There is no obedience required, and there is nothing truly to resist against except the self.
There is an order to the universe, and the nature of that order does what it does in accordance with its nature.
Heh, speaking of nature...
Hehe who is the "I" that 'your' will supposedly belongs to? You speak now of your personality as a separate thing which is something in itself, but is it really?
I do not see a "self" within me, I see a process and that process is the same process of the Creator. It is, to me, the deepest of traps to cling to identity, to personality and 'self' that is individual and existential.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:25 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Most importantly, if you are THE all powerful Creator, why are you still here?The whole bloody thing is a circle: Octave after octave. It is only the meaning we give now that makes the whole thing intrinsic. The whole ends up being divine as it stands.
There is something I have learned of the utmost importance to my journey. I am the Creator, I am part of its process, a microcosm, but I am not THE One Infinite Creator. I hold equal potential, but only a fraction of the kinetic actualization.
As soon as you think you're done, you're going in circles.
(05-29-2013, 07:25 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Also, I will add this fun adage - "Wide is the path but narrow is the gate."
Even the souls lying in near-death will rise through that gate.
(05-29-2013, 07:25 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Hehe who is the "I" that 'your' will supposedly belongs to? You speak now of your personality as a separate thing which is something in itself, but is it really?
I do not see a "self" within me, I see a process and that process is the same process of the Creator. It is, to me, the deepest of traps to cling to identity, to personality and 'self' that is individual and existential.
Is it not like clinging to a painting? To hard work? We work very hard to shape who we are, Eternal. It should not be easily cast aside.
Should we detach from everything? Even our identities? Then what do we become? Another set of choices? It's maddening my friend. This has reduced me to seeing nothing. I indeed have much to balance.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
What makes you think we will not continue to give it meaning?
Yes, every soul will pass the gate eventually, and there is no race, everyone and everything goes at their own pace.
I can tell you right now it is not easy in the slightest to abandon a self you have developed for thousands of years. It is not easy to abandon your human identity which you have come to define yourself by.
Yet, nothing is lost. You do not "become" anything except more aware of what you truly are. When you let go of an identity it doesn't just vanish or dissolve, it is integrated and brought in to the being and unified. Everything has its use and its place which is why I am still capable of using and invoking absolutely any identity I have ever assumed, both dark and light.
When you realize yourself as empty of self, then suddenly you have more self than you ever have before because the self is realized as truly an eternal process. Identity is a process.
I am a different self today than I was yesterday, or the day before, or even 5 minutes ago.
I treat identities as coordinates in consciousness, not who I am, but rather natures and archetypes I may assume and utilize. I, myself, am continuous process.
To me, I cannot ever lose anything, it is impossible. Whenever something moves I know it is just moving from myself to myself. So I do not need to in any personal sense have to "have" anything in order to have it.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:46 PM)TheEternal Wrote: What makes you think we will not continue to give it meaning?And I see. Thanks for reminding me of how things truly are. I was starting to see existence as an endless coping with absolute meaninglessness.
Yes, every soul will pass the gate eventually, and there is no race, everyone and everything goes at their own pace.
I can tell you right now it is not easy in the slightest to abandon a self you have developed for thousands of years. It is not easy to abandon your human identity which you have come to define yourself by.
Yet, nothing is lost. You do not "become" anything except more aware of what you truly are. When you let go of an identity it doesn't just vanish or dissolve, it is integrated and brought in to the being and unified. Everything has its use and its place which is why I am still capable of using and invoking absolutely any identity I have ever assumed, both dark and light.
When you realize yourself as empty of self, then suddenly you have more self than you ever have before because the self is realized as truly an eternal process. Identity is a process.
I am a different self today than I was yesterday, or the day before, or even 5 minutes ago.
I treat identities as coordinates in consciousness, not who I am, but rather natures and archetypes I may assume and utilize. I, myself, am continuous process.
To me, I cannot ever lose anything, it is impossible. Whenever something moves I know it is just moving from myself to myself. So I do not need to in any personal sense have to "have" anything in order to have it.
Eternal, you do agree it is a great burden to create meaning out of nothing in the first place?
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
The One Infinite Creator makes it all look so easy, no? Ahaha
I do not, honestly, believe there is any need to "create" meaning, because meaning already exists. Yes, it is a very large challenge to look at the void and see meaning.
Yet, what is meaning, anyways? We treat it as something which we apply, but is that so?
What is the meaning of the water and the rains to the plants and animals of the planet? What is the meaning of the sun to the solar system? What is the meaning of the grass to the dirt?
All of these are answered by love, by interconnectivity, by wholeness.
My friend, you shall never be meaningless, nor shall anything truly be meaningless, because Creation itself is woven with meaning. Meaning is the very fabric which ties the context of all experience together, the binding thread.
On the higher levels of being, everything is seen with meaning because everything is unified. We are all very meaningful to our past selves and future selves and guides and masters and higher beings. Even if there was only yourself and the Creator you would still be full of meaning because the relationship between you and the Creator is meaningful.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Spaced - 05-29-2013
I really enjoyed reading that exchange, thanks guys.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
![[Image: RWS_Tarot_16_Tower.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/RWS_Tarot_16_Tower.jpg)
RE: The elephant in the room. - xise - 05-29-2013
I'm glad we had this discussion. I re-read some Ra passages which support your notion that we are action, in a sense, and that action is a part of that unity.
I reverse my position!! Sorry for giving you a hard time! I agree with your position then, ultimately, some point, is to love every action since the material states you are every event, every situation, to me that includes actions:
Quote:1.6 Questioner: [The question was lost because the questioner was sitting too far from the tape recorder to be recorded.]
Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that the universe is infinite. This has yet to be proven or disproven, but we can assure you that there is no end to your selves, your understanding, what you would call your journey of seeking, or your perceptions of the creation.
That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.
In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.
I now stand confused by the principle that in some cases it is useful to reject proposed courses of actions, say by a sts entity offering slavery, at least theoretically....can't wait for the end of 5th density!
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
We are here to express ourselves and learn from each other. There is nothing to be sorry about.
You brought me something through your notions as well: Some context and a reality check.
RE: The elephant in the room. - AnthroHeart - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 09:48 PM)xise Wrote: ....can't wait for the end of 5th density!
Ra says that 5th density is an extremely free, and white density. It would probably be my favorite one as well. I think in 6th density it's back to work. There might be more fun to be had in 5th.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
Oh! I just remembered... my little brother found a Fool card in his dryer lint catch after a party this past weekend, very interesting. On it it says:
Past - A blind journey was taken.
Present - New undertakings have begun.
Future - A joyful mistake will be made.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Hototo - 05-30-2013
I think you may not like 6th as much as you think Gemini, but you WILL like 5th(based on my experience) once you get the hang of how it works. SOOOoooOOoooOOOooOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much. That is all.
RE: The elephant in the room. - xise - 05-30-2013
Aha! I have been musing some ideas concerning loving things, including actions and situations, in their entirety, and I will post my thoughts on the matter soon.
It involves infinities of different sizes, a mathematical concept (which I don't claim to fully understand either
).Yes, yes this is of the mind, so bear with me