(09-09-2020, 08:48 PM)Patrick Wrote: Humm, maybe it's not even a question of sharing opinions, but a question of caring about how it is received ?  If I did not worry about how it will be received (judged), I would find no issues at all with sharing?

Quote:54.13 Questioner: OK. Then I assume that the first distortion is the, shall I say, motivator or what allows this blockage. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. We wish no quibbling but prefer to avoid the use of terms such as the verb, to allow. Free will does not allow, nor would predetermination disallow, experiential distortions. Rather the Law of Confusion offers a free reach for the energies of each mind/body/spirit complex. The verb, to allow, would be considered pejorative in that it suggests a polarity between right and wrong or allowed and not allowed. This may seem a minuscule point. However, to our best way of thinking it bears some weight.

(09-09-2020, 10:59 AM)Diana Wrote:

(09-07-2020, 04:08 PM)Minyatur Wrote: Outside of evil, a lot in this thread is about suffering, but it is not like humans created suffering nor did the veil put it in place. Suffering is its own part of nature, remove all of humanity and 3D experience from Earth and you will still have animals that hunt other animals, hurt meaninglessly other animals, have accidents and became stranded to die alone, perhaps of a fever or lack of food. Humans are a whole lot in the image of the nature from which they come, simply wielding a different level of power and without natural predators to balance them out on the short term. Then again, the entire idea of 3D is to allow a place for the Creator to have the honor/duty to learn as this role within such a planet, to make its mistakes and grow through them in the eternal discovery of the Creator as the Creator.

*sigh*

This bypasses any responsibility or accountability on the part of humans. Of course humans have created certain kinds of suffering. If they didn't, who did? Some other entity? Or maybe it just popped out of nowhere. 

Yes, nature is cruel, or more accurately, neutral. Nature is just the system, as the veil is our system. Yes animals may suffer in the ways you have mentioned, but how does that compare to the intentional suffering animals are put through in laboratories when they are experimented on? Are not humans responsible for that suffering?

(09-09-2020, 10:59 AM)Diana Wrote: Can we change nature? Unlikely. Can we change humanity's cruelty to other life forms through awareness and evolution of consciousness? Yes (I certainly hope so).

(09-09-2020, 01:25 PM)Aion Wrote: Animals view all as the self, since in second-density they have not individuated or become self-aware as self and other-self yet.
This sense of "us and them" is not there, when an interaction happens, it is all part of the ecosystem.

Quote:19.15 Questioner: Then the newest third-density beings who’ve just made the transition from second are still strongly biased towards self-service. There must be many other mechanisms to create an awareness of the possibility of service to others.
I am wondering, first— two things. I’m wondering about the mechanism and I am wondering when the split takes place where the entity is able to continue on the road towards service to self that will eventually take him to fourth or fifth density.
I would assume that an entity can continue— can start, say, in second density with service totally to self and continue right on through and just stay on what we would call the path of service to self and never ever be pulled over. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect. The second-density concept of serving self includes the serving of those associated with tribe or pack. This is not seen in second density as separation of self and other-self. All is seen as self since in some forms of second-density entities, if the tribe or pack becomes weakened, so does the entity within the tribe or pack.

The new or initial third-density entity has this innocent, shall we say, bias or distortion towards viewing those in the family, the society, as you would call, perhaps, country, as self. Thus though a distortion not helpful for progress in third density, it is without polarity.

The break becomes apparent when the entity perceives other-selves as other-selves and consciously determines to manipulate other-selves for the benefit of the self. This is the beginning of the road of which you speak.

Quote:20.4 Questioner: Then can you give me an example of an entity in third density that was just previously a second-density entity? What type of entity do they become here?

Ra: I am Ra. As a second-density entity returns as third-density for the beginning of this process of learning, the entity is equipped with the lowest, if you will so call these vibrational distortions, forms of third-density consciousness; that is, equipped with self-consciousness.

Quote:21.9 Questioner: Now, when the 75,000-year cycle started, [the] life span was approximately nine hundred years, average. What was the process and scheduling of— mechanism, shall I say, of reincarnation at that time, and how did the time in between incarnations into third-density physical apply to the growth of the mind/body/spirit complex?

Ra: I am Ra. This query is more complex than most. We shall begin. The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgetting. It is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex.

Thus, the beginning entity is one in all innocence oriented towards animalistic behavior using other-selves only as extensions of self for the preservation of the all-self. The entity becomes slowly aware that it has needs, shall we say, that are not animalistic; that is, that are useless for survival. These needs include: the need for companionship, the need for laughter, the need for beauty, the need to know the universe about it. These are the beginning needs.

As the incarnations begin to accumulate, further needs are discovered: the need to trade, the need to love, the need to be loved, the need to elevate animalistic behaviors to a more universal perspective.

During the first portion of third-density cycles, incarnations are automatic and occur rapidly upon the cessation of energy complex of the physical vehicle. There is small need to review or to heal the experiences of the incarnation. As, what you would call, the energy centers begin to be activated to a higher extent, more of the content of experience during incarnation deals with the lessons of love.

Thus the time, as you may understand it, between incarnations is lengthened to give appropriate attention to the review and the healing of experiences of the previous incarnation. At some point in third density, the green-ray energy center becomes activated and at that point incarnation ceases to be automatic.

The reason I have a hard time believing that nature has ever not been eating itself (cause really, most of the violence in nature revolves around food and survival) is because this even occurs on a microorganism level which were the first lifeforms to form on the planet. Even plants compete with eachother and can be aggressive towards eachother for the sake of survival.

Perhaps we are idealizing a nature in which there is never any competition?

(09-10-2020, 03:28 PM)Minyatur Wrote:

(09-09-2020, 10:59 AM)Diana Wrote: [quote='Minyatur' pid='281821' dateline='1599509331']

Outside of evil, a lot in this thread is about suffering, but it is not like humans created suffering nor did the veil put it in place. Suffering is its own part of nature, remove all of humanity and 3D experience from Earth and you will still have animals that hunt other animals, hurt meaninglessly other animals, have accidents and became stranded to die alone, perhaps of a fever or lack of food. Humans are a whole lot in the image of the nature from which they come, simply wielding a different level of power and without natural predators to balance them out on the short term. Then again, the entire idea of 3D is to allow a place for the Creator to have the honor/duty to learn as this role within such a planet, to make its mistakes and grow through them in the eternal discovery of the Creator as the Creator.

I guess that's really just the good old 'All is one' and I do not know what salvation there is for someone that thinks existence is wrong to be what it is. I don't think I can really judge another human for what it does any more than I can judge a wolf for what it is does, even with the power of 3D thinking the wolf might just think that it likes to hunt, just as the taste of blood, and keep at it. Each thing does what it is in its nature as a complex to do and it makes more sense for me to understand and accept that than to seek to control it.

(09-09-2020, 11:08 AM)Patrick Wrote:  
Is it possible that animals did not attack other animals before this planet was influenced negatively by us ?  Or maybe Orion was even influencing second density on this planet before 3D began ?

(09-11-2020, 08:44 AM)Ymarsakar Wrote:

(09-09-2020, 11:08 AM)Patrick Wrote:  
Is it possible that animals did not attack other animals before this planet was influenced negatively by us ?  Or maybe Orion was even influencing second density on this planet before 3D began ?

Yes, in the Eden era, the lamb lay down with the lion. They didn't need to eat much of anything. The world was not influenced by humans to do that. That is a distortion. What happened is that Earth became infused with both Heyl-El serpent like genetics, or STS, and also STO genetics. Of the original divine dna, humanity knows it as junk DNA. 20%, mostly suppressed. 80% of the active genetics is Orion/Draconian.

The plant and animal life here were "imported" from previous worlds dominated or destroyed by Orion influences.

(09-10-2020, 11:18 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: To a certain extent I see the validity in your statements. Perhaps I can provide a flipside, or alternative viewpoint, and whether right or wrong, at least get you to see how that viewpoint might be validated. Is a person a bad gamer if they point out what they feel is wrong or unbalanced with a game's design, in hopes the developers might take heed and make the game a better experience for those that play it? There's a quote in the material that the creator prefers honest dialogue, even railing against it, that it might hear our honest and heartfelt opinions about existence from our perspective. I'd say that there's more hope of salvation for a person that sticks to their heartfelt principles in misguided rebellion against the perceived nature of existence, then for one who blindly accepts the apparent "authority" of that existence as automatically superior and superseding to their heartfelt beliefs and values.

(09-10-2020, 11:18 PM)Black Dragon Wrote: Everything in balance can be good or bad, to an extent. There is a dark side to acceptance, and you can see it in our history in the holocaust in situations when tons of people were marched to their deaths at gunpoint by relatively few armed guards that could have been physically overpowered with much fewer casualties. If wanderers and those of an STO bent were 100% accepting and 0% controlling at all times, than they would be 100% impotent and never accomplish anything. "when push comes to shove, sometimes shove must push back". That's in the material too alongside all the flowery acceptance stuff.

One more thing. People who can't understand why someone could possibly think "existence is wrong to be what it is", are either full of s*** and haven't suffered anything intense enough to come to that conclusions/distortion, or they have and made it past the dark night of the soul and shadow integration and really come out the other side, in which case they would at least be able to understand and empathize, even if they did not share the same view. As very few people fall into the latter category, people making the type of statements that you make usually fall into the first. In that case, they are somewhat akin to people who judge others who are relatively well off materially, and say "your life is easy", when they have no fucking clue what hardships that person actually faces.

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt, and assume that you are of the latter group, that's actually been through some real stuff and transcended it. In that case, your perspective is much valued. If you self-examine and find yourself belonging to the first group, I'd personally shut the hell up and not condescend people for disagreeing with the nature of existence until you actually learn how bad it can be.

(09-11-2020, 09:41 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(09-11-2020, 08:44 AM)Ymarsakar Wrote:

(09-09-2020, 11:08 AM)Patrick Wrote:  
Is it possible that animals did not attack other animals before this planet was influenced negatively by us ?  Or maybe Orion was even influencing second density on this planet before 3D began ?

Yes, in the Eden era, the lamb lay down with the lion. They didn't need to eat much of anything. The world was not influenced by humans to do that. That is a distortion. What happened is that Earth became infused with both Heyl-El serpent like genetics, or STS, and also STO genetics. Of the original divine dna, humanity knows it as junk DNA. 20%, mostly suppressed. 80% of the active genetics is Orion/Draconian.

The plant and animal life here were "imported" from previous worlds dominated or destroyed by Orion influences.

Interesting, that resonates a bit.

(09-11-2020, 11:13 AM)Diana Wrote: ...
And Patrick, I keep wanting to say that your signature is hilarious. It always makes me laugh.

Quote:It turns "Message Oriented Middleware", a phrase guaranteed to send the whole room off to Catatonia, into "Extra Spicy Sockets!" which leaves us with a strange craving for pizza, and a desire to know more.

(09-11-2020, 08:44 AM)Ymarsakar Wrote:

(09-09-2020, 11:08 AM)Patrick Wrote:  
Is it possible that animals did not attack other animals before this planet was influenced negatively by us ?  Or maybe Orion was even influencing second density on this planet before 3D began ?

Yes, in the Eden era, the lamb lay down with the lion. They didn't need to eat much of anything. The world was not influenced by humans to do that. That is a distortion. What happened is that Earth became infused with both Heyl-El serpent like genetics, or STS, and also STO genetics. Of the original divine dna, humanity knows it as junk DNA. 20%, mostly suppressed. 80% of the active genetics is Orion/Draconian.

The plant and animal life here were "imported" from previous worlds dominated or destroyed by Orion influences.

(09-11-2020, 06:22 PM)Patrick Wrote: That might be why we often hear that this planet is a biological library.  Having species lost in time from other planets.

Now with it going to 4D, we will be able to take good care of it all.  I wonder how going 4D positive will benefit 2D?  I guess just not having 3D humans will help, but maybe predation will slowly go away with time as well.