(07-28-2011, 12:22 PM)hogey11 Wrote: ...I have a slightly unique view on 3D/4D bodies in that I feel the difference between 3D and 4D is not so much a physical existence or incarnation, but instead the way in which we perceive and integrate into the world. This is why they are uniquely incompatible; you cannot be ignorant when you know better. In this way, the yellow ray is that of confusion and duality (ignorance) while the green ray is that of love and understanding (knowing better). The 3D body must 'die' once we ascend to 4D, but does that mean that the 1D and 2D bodies also die? What if our bodies are left for a short time (a la Jesus) and then transformed when we re-enter them as 4D entities to start our work on the new 4D planet? I have a whole thread on it somewhere, but the main point for me is that the death of the 3D body doesn't necessarily mean the death of our bodies, but instead the death of our minds as we know them. The confusion will leave, and frankly, we have no idea what that will feel like

(07-28-2011, 12:22 PM)hogey11 Wrote: I have a slightly unique view on 3D/4D bodies in that I feel the difference between 3D and 4D is not so much a physical existence or incarnation, but instead the way in which we perceive and integrate into the world. This is why they are uniquely incompatible; you cannot be ignorant when you know better. In this way, the yellow ray is that of confusion and duality (ignorance) while the green ray is that of love and understanding (knowing better). The 3D body must 'die' once we ascend to 4D, but does that mean that the 1D and 2D bodies also die? What if our bodies are left for a short time (a la Jesus) and then transformed when we re-enter them as 4D entities to start our work on the new 4D planet? I have a whole thread on it somewhere, but the main point for me is that the death of the 3D body doesn't necessarily mean the death of our bodies, but instead the death of our minds as we know them. The confusion will leave, and frankly, we have no idea what that will feel like

(07-31-2011, 02:19 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(07-30-2011, 09:26 PM)Icaro Wrote: It is an interesting thought. The act of channeling is really a metaphor for the whole process. The more purified the channel is, combined with genuine seeking, the less distorted the information. I would imagine the effectiveness of intuition is very much linked to desire and will. Seek and you will find, right? So if we're not honest and open to being critical, where does that lead you? You will only find what you're looking for. When we seek with an open heart and a discerning mind, our intuition will most certainly lead us where we need to go.

Ra's explanation 67.28 "Teaching is done via the intuition. With the proper seeking or mind configuration, the power of will uses the spirit as a shuttle to contact the appropriate archetypical aspect necessary for the teach/learning. In the same way each of the other informers of intuition are contacted. They are hierarchical and proceed from the entity’s own subconscious mind to group or planetary mind, to guides, to Higher Self, to archetypical mind, to cosmic mind or intelligent infinity. Each is contacted by the spirit serving as shuttle according to the harmonized electromagnetic configuration of the seeker’s mind and the information sought."

Quote:40.3 Questioner: Thank you. I was also wondering if the first-density corresponded somehow to the color red, the second to the color orange, the third to the color yellow and so on through the densities corresponding to the colors in perhaps a way so that the basic vibration which forms the photon that forms the core of all atomic particles would have a relationship to the color in the density and that that vibration would step up for second, third, and fourth-density corresponding to the increase in the vibration of the colors. Is any of this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is more correct than you have stated. Firstly, you are correct in positing a quantum, if you will, as the nature of each density and further correct in assuming that these quanta may be seen to be of vibratory natures corresponding to color as you grasp this word. However, it is also true, as you have suspected but not asked, that each density is of the metaphysical characteristic complex of its ray. Thus in first-density the red ray is the foundation for all that is to come. In second density the orange ray is that of movement and growth of the individual, this ray striving towards the yellow ray of self-conscious manifestations of a social nature as well as individual; third-density being the equivalent, and so forth, each density being primarily its ray plus the attractions of the following ray pulling it forward in evolution and to some extent coloring or shading the chief color of that density.

Quote:39.10 .....This is the first true spiritual ray in that all transfers are of an integrated mind/body/spirit nature. The blue ray seats the learnings/teachings of the spirit in each density within the mind/body complex animating the whole, communicating to others this entirety of being-ness.....

Quote:You are being way too deterministic. Both are correct.

By that, I mean that your idea of harvest embodying a single moment in space is true. There will be a watershed moment where there will be a great release and those ready will ascend. I think you are bang on in that way.

However, you are completely glossing over many things that are explicitly stated by Ra. First, that there are such things as transitional bodies and also a transitional time of 100-700 years while the yellow sphere/ray fades into potentiation. Transitional bodies are clearly stated as 3d entities that will be able to withstand the new 4D vibrations post-harvest. We also know that once the green sphere reaches full activation, the earth will enter a transitional period in which the yellow sphere and ray will fade out over 100-700 years. For myself, this is the window for acceptance of the 4D earth on a globally unified level. When everyone is finally on the same 'team' (ie: there is only ONE choice - STO), the yellow sphere is gone and the Green has full reign. Q'uo and Ra both states 4D worlds as being ones of unity rather than duality, so post-harvest I think we can expect different communities to spring up. There will be unity centers like the ones described earlier in Spain, where all are taken care of and all are in service to others. I would also imagine those who cannot accept this way of life (pure 3Ds) to start their own small communities as well. If you think this would lead to chaos and war, remember that we're now talking of a 4D world. Any needs of the pure 3D entities would be met happily by the transitional/4D beings as an opportunity to serve. In this way, I would expect the pure 3Ds to live a very confused life post-harvest, but I think the question is more do we wait for them to all die out, or do we wait for them to accept and ascend?

Second, there is the whole population numbers issue. Ra was clear that at the time of Carla's channeling, Earth's graduation to a 4D positive planet was still in the balance. The amount of harvestables was extremely low, but Ra was very clear to say that anything could happen as harvest approaches. 'One fine, strong moment' could happen and turn the tides at any moment. Back in 1980, the world's population was around 3.5 Billion people. Here's the thing about population growth: it's not linear. In the last 30 years, we have doubled the entire population one time over; this is unprecedented growth. The interesting thing is that both Ra and Q'uo admit that the influx of high-seniority entities and powerful wanderers was going to intensify as we approached the harvest date. So, lets look at this from above: we have Ra and Q'uo saying that the most positive souls in our planets history will be the ones to be born as we approach harvest, as this is a major milestone/event in each soul's evolution and being present is important for us. Additionally, they also say that the influx of help from wanderers from higher densities would only get more numerous as well, as each provides a huge amount of energy to add to the pull towards 4D positive. Now take into consideration that we've borne 3.5 Billion people in the last 30 years, right after Ra tells us these things. There is a reason the revolutions that are starting around the world are being led by the youth. They are the great souls who have come for harvest, and they will remake this world once they are given the power to, imo...

Finally, the need for population control is ridiculous and one of the darkest things you could ever put your support into. Population control is nothing more than genocide. The world's population as it is is no longer the problem they were claiming a few years back. Due to the rising industries found in China, India, and Brazil (as well as other 3rd world countries), women are being given the option to work and start a career rather than purely being baby-ovens for their whole lives. This is happening enough around the world that the future population levels actually seem pretty modest moving forward. The idea that we need to get rid of a bunch of people to make more room is a pure STS notion coming straight from the illuminati and those who run the world. By saying this, you are basically saying that the coal industry, oil rigs, and lithium mines are more important than people's lives. IMO, that is wrong.

I have a slightly unique view on 3D/4D bodies in that I feel the difference between 3D and 4D is not so much a physical existence or incarnation, but instead the way in which we perceive and integrate into the world. This is why they are uniquely incompatible; you cannot be ignorant when you know better. In this way, the yellow ray is that of confusion and duality (ignorance) while the green ray is that of love and understanding (knowing better). The 3D body must 'die' once we ascend to 4D, but does that mean that the 1D and 2D bodies also die? What if our bodies are left for a short time (a la Jesus) and then transformed when we re-enter them as 4D entities to start our work on the new 4D planet? I have a whole thread on it somewhere, but the main point for me is that the death of the 3D body doesn't necessarily mean the death of our bodies, but instead the death of our minds as we know them. The confusion will leave, and frankly, we have no idea what that will feel like

Quote:63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.

To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third-density.

May we answer any brief queries as we leave this instrument?

(08-02-2011, 11:51 PM)Raman Wrote: Would I like if at harvest time multicolored candy falls from the sky and we hug each other and start a new world, and sing kumbaya and all computers run gnu/linux? Well yeah...

I think we are too attached to 3d....

(08-02-2011, 11:51 PM)Raman Wrote: Population control? I am just saying Ra stated when Harvest occurs 3d density bodies AND thoughts AND feelings AND artifacts will cease to exist:

Quote:63.32 Questioner: When the third-density goes out of activation and into potentiation that will leave us with a planet that is first, second, and fourth-density. At that time there will be no activated third-density vibrations on this planet. Am I correct in assuming that all third-density vibrations on this planet now are those vibrations that compose the bodily complexes of entities such as we are; that that is the sum total of third-density vibrations on this planet at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this working. This instrument has energy left due to transfer but there is discomfort. We do not wish to deplete this instrument. May we say that this instrument seems in better configuration despite attack than previous workings.

To answer your query, this is incorrect only in that in addition to the mind/body/spirit complexes of third-density there are the artifacts, thought-forms, and feelings which these co-Creators have produced. This is third-density.

May we answer any brief queries as we leave this instrument?

If this is 'population control' to you, so be it.

Second, another 6th density group created pyramids, cities, and (to me) the mayan calendar which is about consciousness. And we are just realizing this close to harvest time...(---minus the 'Gregorian factor' per Ra in 'approximately' 2011).

Doom/gloom, yes, not good. However, Mars or Maldek scenario totally possible if something 'different' does not happen. --Talk about doom/gloom....

By the way, do you people realize that eventually you will die? (in the 3d sense?)...

Third, 'doom and gloom' scenarios are indeed possible and they are indeed a stop to evolution. (destruction of the planet). But since 'harvest' is here (in whatever form) soon, 4d earth is possible.

Seems that cycles in 3d are 25,000 years each and a definitive final one after 3 times, because it is a 'safety valve' most of the time, due to the propensities of 3d evolution for destruction if things go awry, etc.

Would I like if at harvest time multicolored candy falls from the sky and we hug each other and start a new world, and sing kumbaya and all computers run gnu/linux? Well yeah...

I think we are too attached to 3d....

Quote: And it seems the gateway to intelligent infinity opens and I do not think it opens for 100-700 years continuously...

Quote: Also, 3D is compatible with 4D when 4D entities learn to 'shield/hide' etc, from 3D.

Quote: Then you have the situation of a mixed final harvest (note final) with the pressure towards orange ray due to governments, religions, and most important link between money which creates an elite and allows for Orion influence to take hold, to the point that it is dangerous to the survival of a plane, since if people protest, they are easily subjugated, manipulated, brought to fear and to basic survival needs. Plus incarnations of entities and groups that are rather violent, etc. (Maldek, Mars..probably many others).

Quote:, I am right with you on the disclosure part. I believe the Confederation will have a large part in harvest, and I would be surprised if there was not some sort of preparations following a disclosure agreement/moment.

Quote: We may note at this point while you ponder the possibility/probability vortices that although you have many, many items which cause distress and thus offer seeking and service opportunities, there is always one container in that store of peace, love, light, and joy. This vortex may be very small, but to turn one’s back upon it is to forget the infinite possibilities of the present moment. Could your planet polarize towards harmony in one fine, strong, moment of inspiration? Yes, my friends. It is not probable; but it is ever possible.

Quote: The second class of those who ward this process [harvest] are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their Higher Self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

(08-06-2011, 12:55 AM)hogey11 Wrote: Disclosure will dismantle all the things that are hurting our chances to ascend right now.

(08-06-2011, 01:21 PM)hogey11 Wrote: I agree that it would not be the final shocker, but rather, I think it will be the first shock instead.

I see disclosure as putting an end to the biggest obstacles between us and ascension. What I mean by that is that I see disclosure as something that will bring light to the greatest points of pressure on our planet - politics and religion.

There are multiple layers here. First, I think there will be first contact and a 'honeymoon period' where we are left to process this new reality. After that, we will have a proliferation of technology on the planet that will erase any possible negative intentions in anyone's minds. They will change the world for the betterment of every person, and we will recognize that through even our most primal instincts. Once they have gained our trust, they will help us implement the underpinnings for the new 4D society through new governments and legal understandings.

With religion, the reality of the Confederation would pretty much destroy all religions, or rather, fuse them into a single religion. Once we see ourselves as part of a galactic community, these lines in the sand will be soundly wiped out. From what I understand, they have much corrections to make to history as well, as many and most religions are connected to them in some way.

It is at this point that we will be able to truly start to put ourselves towards harvest and our ascension. I believe the Confederation is out there ready to jump in and help us towards our goal in the final minutes. Like Ra said in the earlier quote, all will be given a true chance to ascend. I don't see how that can be true if people are still working 80 hrs a week trying to cover their mortgages.... This is a shallow dive into my ideas on this subject. I almost see it like the Confederation has let us break rules and do as we please for all the time before this; they haven't stopped The Powers That Be from controlling a large portion of the earth through all sorts of shady means. However, who's to say they don't take their own benefit in the 11th hour on our behalf? I guess to put it bluntly: What if they come to explain the harvest to us like we're 4 year olds? Just lay it out as clear as they can, so that all who want and wished to live a STO life can finally wake up and participate... one last gambit

(08-06-2011, 01:21 PM)hogey11 Wrote: I believe the Confederation is out there ready to jump in and help us towards our goal in the final minutes. Like Ra said in the earlier quote, all will be given a true chance to ascend. I don't see how that can be true if people are still working 80 hrs a week trying to cover their mortgages.... This is a shallow dive into my ideas on this subject.

Quote:In other words, I think it is important, if we are moving onwards and upwards, that we do so without redesigning what we have here already. This has been done time and time again with the same results. If we don't experience a completely new set of archetypes, and I mean literally not figuratively, then ET helping hands would be better applied from the shadows, i.e. technological advancements to protect our atmosphere and stuff.

Quote: The truth is, we are all 4 year olds. We each hold our own capacity to understand spirit. We reach out into the darkness, pop open some illumination light bulbs, store them in our subconscious bag. Each time we do this, our conscious grows a bit more in its capabilities to walk around in the darkness that is the perpetual birthplace of anything spiritual. This can't be fast forwarded FOR someone else. ETs can not show up and learn/teach for us. We are such that, right now, all we can do is be attentive students to our Self's life.

(08-06-2011, 11:48 PM)hogey11 Wrote: I see all of your points, but they fly in the face of the reality of a new 4D world post-harvest. You understand me perfectly in those places where you step out of your beliefs in that you embody exactly the type of person I speak about when I say that people are going to need help to get ready.

First, I want to respond to what zenmaster countered with. I totally see where you are coming from, but I feel that it's ignorant of the fact that harvest is nearly upon us. If we were continuing through to more of the same 3D duality, I could see how it would signify more of a breakdown than a breakthrough. However, the game is going to change and therefore so does the lens we view our results through. I see disclosure as a starting point to harvest because it signifies one of the first great leaps towards 4D in which we can live within a galactic community rather than in the microcosm of just our own little world.

Quote: You do realize that no one is given something 'extra to work with' by positive ET contact, unless one is prepared for it. Since most are not prepared, then the universe naturally must allow the opposition equal access.

(08-07-2011, 01:17 PM)Oceania Wrote: could we organize somekind of mutiny if we find out that there is no sense to the ALL? i know this density is not of understanding but if so, why does Ra even try to explain to us crap? why can't we be the idiots that we are instead of having to blindly believe in something that doesn't make sense to us.

and will disclosure allow us to have an easier life to ascend? people have opposing opinions. some might say it's a cop out or too easy then, even though on other planets it WAS easy. i think it would be unfair to have it be so hard here.

Quote: Those who want to be distrustful and angry that their social position no longer matters can deal with it on another 3D planet... it's totally up to them

Quote: Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

(08-07-2011, 03:13 PM)hogey11 Wrote:

Quote: Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

I feel this here is the tricky part of the whole thing. The word "automatic" elicits a certain response from us, as if it would be passive-automatic. I don't think we can jump to that conclusion. Anything that is automatic still requires instruction. Automatics cars still need to be driven, automatic coffee machines still need to be fed money and selections, etc. The more pressing issue then is the violet ray selfhood and whether or not it is being able to properly express itself on earth. This is where I feel disclosure could make a difference. Remove the blockages created by duality and let people make their choice freely without being under duress. Isn't that the point of the greater levels of catalyst leading up to harvest? To give people all the experiences they needed to make harvest? We know the amount of wanderers and graduated souls (from Earth and Maldek) has only risen since Ra spoke to us and their violet ray selfhoods would most likely be very high. The world has also doubled in population in that time. When given the chance, I believe the world will explode with compassion; there just doesn't yet exist the power to summon it yet. Disclosure would get the foot in the door, imo.

(08-07-2011, 01:22 PM)hogey11 Wrote:

Quote: You do realize that no one is given something 'extra to work with' by positive ET contact, unless one is prepared for it. Since most are not prepared, then the universe naturally must allow the opposition equal access.

What makes you say that?

(08-07-2011, 03:13 PM)hogey11 Wrote:

Quote: Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

I feel this here is the tricky part of the whole thing. The word "automatic" elicits a certain response from us, as if it would be passive-automatic.