+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Community (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: Olio (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Free Will Denial (/showthread.php?tid=11659)
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-11-2015
Yeah, I think the word is deception.
I don't actually put much emphasis on 'known' and 'unknown' because I see knowledge as temporal and fleeting. I think you are misunderstanding me since you're still referring to mystery as a quality pertaining to other things. I'm not sure how else to express my thought though.
I actually don't agree with that idea of truth at all. I think that's a very intellectual understanding of truth, and somewhat caters to the mind's desire to have knowledge of everything (never mind that that is a moot point once you are unified with all things.) To me, truth has nothing to do with knowledge and everything to do with experience. Knowledge can help us reach towards truth but is not truth in itself. I don't think any truth can be found in knowledge, only in direct experience.
Truth, to me, is not about the quantity of experience but the quality of experience. So you can 'know' everything but that doesn't mean you are experiencing truthfully. (Consider that negative entities are respected for their wisdom, cleverness and knowledge.) Mystery is the fact that there is always more to experience, always something new, it is the very heart of creativity, the well from which all newness emerges. It is the very essence of 'infinite possibilities'.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-11-2015
I would also mention that behind Truth/Mystery, is Unity.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-11-2015
Quote:13.12 Questioner: Could you tell me how intelligent infinity became, shall we say (I’m having difficulty with some of the language), how intelligent infinity became individualized from itself?
Ra: I am Ra. This is an appropriate question.
The intelligent infinity discerned a concept. This concept was discerned due to freedom of will of awareness. This concept was finity. This was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the Law of One. Thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. Due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. The exploration, thus, is free to continue infinitely in an eternal present.
27.5 Questioner: It is not necessary to divide it. The definition of intelligent infinity as one part is sufficient. Could you please now define intelligent infinity?
Ra: I am Ra. This is exponentially simpler and less confusing. There is unity. This unity is all that there is. This unity has a potential and kinetic. The potential is intelligent infinity. Tapping this potential will yield work. This work has been called by us, intelligent energy.
The nature of this work is dependent upon the particular distortion of free will which in turn is the nature of a particular intelligent energy or kinetic focus of the potential of unity or that which is all.
13.7 Questioner: After this, what happened?
Ra: Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.
Thus, intelligent infinity in its discernment became aware of Infinite Truth and Infinite Mystery in its awareness of finity.
Quote:28.16 Questioner: Are you saying then there are an infinite number of octaves of densities one through eight?
Ra: I am Ra. We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.
However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.
Even Ra's teachers from the next octave apparently suggest that Unity is clad in some Mystery.
RE: Free Will Denial - AnthroHeart - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 02:52 PM)Aion Wrote: However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.
Even Ra's teachers from the next octave apparently suggest that Unity is clad in some Mystery.
Interesting. So mystery seems more fundamental than even Free Will.
The first known thing in Creation should be mystery. Unless that's an unknown thing.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 03:20 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:(09-11-2015, 02:52 PM)Aion Wrote: However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.
Even Ra's teachers from the next octave apparently suggest that Unity is clad in some Mystery.
Interesting. So mystery seems more fundamental than even Free Will.
The first known thing in Creation should be mystery. Unless that's an unknown thing.
Ah, but if it was known, it wouldn't be a Mystery now would it? However, without free will to be aware, you cannot know there is a Mystery. This is why I suggest it was through sudden awareness that infinity became aware of its infinite truth, unity, and its infinite mystery, many-ness. The Mystery is perhaps where does awareness come from at all? What sparked that in infinity or was it/has it been/is it simply always there?
RE: Free Will Denial - The_Tired_Philosopher - 09-12-2015
That's my point. Mystery is inherently the unknown. Can be nontruth even but only sometimes. Its why truth/mystery isn't a proper opposites.
Aion, you say I mistake mystery in your context, I'll cede but also know you mistake truth in my context.
Truth can be 'everything known', but I see it as, a Principle or Fundamental Comprehension or Understanding. Once known, everything else ceases being mysterious beyond the 'unknown'. Which is known but not understood or experienced yet to be known at this Moment hence Unknown.
The next Octave should be interesting, to see how much further into mystery one can go despite being outside of illusion.
Min made a good thread touching on what I percieved for a while. Until I realized, before the Law of One There was already an Original Thought. It was probably Love, being discovered that all is Love, the Zero Distortion, The Law of One was fructified. Then as we know, The Law of Free Will followed, followed by the energetic potentiator, The Law of Love. Then the activated/crystallized energy actualizer, The Law of Light.
Energy, Vibration, and Frequency too are distortions in my opinion, created lenses in a trinity to allow nearly if not absolutely infinite distortions.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-12-2015
Well, these concepts seem kind of circular to me, it just doesn't make sense in my mind the way you describe although I can see the construction. The problem for me is that to me the Truth IS Mystery. Everything known contains everything unknown. But that is still kind of beside what I mean by Mystery, I guess I just don't have proper words in this language.
I admit I don't get why everyone is so attached to the idea of Love having to be present from the beginning of all things, especially since Ra laid out that Logos is Love which is rarified Free Will that came from awareness. Why the insistance that Love had to be there before Free Will? It just seems to be reaching in fear, but maybe I misperceive.
That's very different understanding of things from what I see. The Law of One, to me, is not the Original Thought at all, but it is a description of a nature within reality, just as all the 'Laws' are. It's like a peoples that get named after they are extinct. Everybody will call them that name, but they may have never called themselves that. I don't think the universe considers itself to be ruled by the Law of One, the Law of One is a description made by enties of their perception of reality.
The Law of One therefore really just describes what is continuous, unending in experience. It is the only reference we have for the possibility of infinity.
So, that being said, I think the Original Thought is a subset of the Law of One and not the other way around. Really, if the Law of One is a subset of anything else then it is deceitful in name because then it doesn't pertain to absolute unity.
RE: Free Will Denial - The_Tired_Philosopher - 09-12-2015
I never said the Law of One was the Original Thought. Ra says Love was the Original Thought o:
(which the OIC occasionally tweaks every 'full cycle' to further do whatever it wanted to do.)
I do think the Law of One is deceptive, else it wouldn't see truth in deceptive nature hencefourth it is All as One. Positive and Negative.
You could say the Law of One is an Infinite Gift of Love. Making sense out of this infinite nonsense :3
Truth can't be mystery in my mind, truth to me is... well. Better put.
Once known the only unknown is that not known, but at the same time, its known it will eventually be known and isn't really mystery in another Moment. Is there a tier below Mystery? Or Deception? Or Illusion?
Perhaps mystery is just that which is as it is, mysterious, or lacks logic known, or holds sense above where we are. Maybe there's a mysterious 'rabbit hole' That is known as mysterious because it makes no sense at all until WAAAAY later when we as OIC know more now to make sense of it and all this time we just thought it mysterious.
Hence why i do not see mystery as synonymous to truth, similar, or opposite.
Mystery Known is the oxymoron here, Truth is not 'That known' as far as I know. I saw it as more a discovery of how everything unifies. The Source or 'Reason Why'.
Maybe the hemp seeds are messing with me today lol
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-12-2015
No discovery is made without mystery to delve in to. Even knowing how things unify doesn't explain unity itself. Imagine infinite, unending discoveries. This is the Mystery.
RE: Free Will Denial - The_Tired_Philosopher - 09-12-2015
That sounds like infinity's inference. Where infinity implies unity, it inferences mystery.
Why are you so fun to talk to?
RE: Free Will Denial - Minyatur - 09-12-2015
(09-12-2015, 05:43 AM)Aion Wrote: I admit I don't get why everyone is so attached to the idea of Love having to be present from the beginning of all things, especially since Ra laid out that Logos is Love which is rarified Free Will that came from awareness. Why the insistance that Love had to be there before Free Will? It just seems to be reaching in fear, but maybe I misperceive.
Well that depends how you perceive Love, in most channeling it says Love is not what we think it is and that it is often used for the lack of a better word.
In my view Love is the driving force behind Will and desire. As such it'd encompass the desire of the OIC to be and know Itself.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-12-2015
I see Love as the director of Will, but Will first came in as 'random' and Love is the focus which organizes it in to Light.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-12-2015
(09-12-2015, 06:49 AM)The_Tired_Philosopher Wrote: That sounds like infinity's inference. Where infinity implies unity, it inferences mystery.
Why are you so fun to talk to?
Depends who's talking to me I suppose. I think you are getting what I mean now. It's very subtle and takes some careful viewing.
If Infinity is all things at all times then it must ALWAYS include some Mystery in order to complete unity, Infinity.
RE: Free Will Denial - Minyatur - 09-12-2015
(09-12-2015, 10:57 AM)Aion Wrote: I see Love as the director of Will, but Will first came in as 'random' and Love is the focus which organizes it in to Light.
Then there is the mystery of how did 'random' occur within nothingness.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-12-2015
(09-12-2015, 11:06 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:(09-12-2015, 10:57 AM)Aion Wrote: I see Love as the director of Will, but Will first came in as 'random' and Love is the focus which organizes it in to Light.
Then there is the mystery of how did 'random' occur within nothingness.
Precisely, this is why I refer to Mystery as a thing in itself. I think Mystery was the Original Thought, and this Mystery, through discovery, refines the Original Thought to the point that Mystery becomes Truth and it is the pathway between Mystery and Truth that we call Love.
RE: Free Will Denial - Minyatur - 09-12-2015
Infinity/nothingness became aware that it was unaware.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-12-2015
Then, BOOM!
The spark of life is lit.
RE: Free Will Denial - Minyatur - 09-12-2015
But if the Infinity became aware, how does this change happen into nothingness without a parameter of time for an evolution/change to happen.
We do evolve because our awareness is splitted by time which keeps everything in it's place and events separated.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-12-2015
It's a flickering. A constant revolution between the extremes of awareness and lack of awareness.
RE: Free Will Denial - Aion - 09-12-2015
Quote:(97.9) To put this into perspective we must gaze then at the stunning mystery of the One Infinite Creator. The archetypical mind does not resolve any paradox or bring all into unity. This is not the property of any resource which is of the third density. Therefore, may we ask the student to look up from inward working and behold the glory, the might, the majesty, the mystery, and the peace of oneness. Let no consideration of bird or beast, darkness or light, shape or shadow keep any which seeks from the central consideration of unity.