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+--- Thread: No Purpose (/showthread.php?tid=9857)
RE: No Purpose - AnthroHeart - 08-31-2014
(08-31-2014, 07:46 PM)Unbound Wrote: So how is any of that knowledge of any use where you are now?
I realize that I don't want to hurt anyone else. Perhaps moreso even now. Because ultimately I am only hurting myself.
I think this comes back to why I mocked the guides. Because they are so fortunate to be where they are, on the other side. They don't have to put up with the BS of the world. I was just a little frustrated at their freedom.
We might have more free will to do wrong. But they have more freedom to do right. Here we are limited by the physics of Earth. Plus society limits us.
RE: No Purpose - Adonai One - 08-31-2014
(08-31-2014, 07:41 PM)Unbound Wrote: What is the use of having no response?
So, if there is one of us, what is your point? What does that entail? If it entails nothing, then why is it in any way meaningful to have that as a realization?
Peace. Everything is acceptable as the self. Action is not necessary. In other words, happiness is what is entailed.
RE: No Purpose - Unbound - 08-31-2014
(08-31-2014, 07:49 PM)Adonai One Wrote:(08-31-2014, 07:41 PM)Unbound Wrote: What is the use of having no response?
So, if there is one of us, what is your point? What does that entail? If it entails nothing, then why is it in any way meaningful to have that as a realization?
Peace. Everything is acceptable as the self. Action is not necessary. In other words, happiness is what is entailed.
How, why? Why is action relevant to happiness?
RE: No Purpose - Adonai One - 08-31-2014
Action is a result of being dissatisfied with the present moment and believing it needs to be modified in order to enable a future moment to be more pleasing. When everything is seen as love, every moment is loved equally and without a imperative to change any moment.
When an entity sees service as inherent, action is an optional expression of the self. There is no attachment to the expression of the self as far as seeing results and the manifestation of purposes.
RE: No Purpose - Unbound - 08-31-2014
How is that what action is? Where do you draw that definition from?
Why is happiness about action? That still doesn't make any sense. Why is detachment from self expression "more happy"?
RE: No Purpose - Adonai One - 08-31-2014
Phenomenology. If we knew all things at once, all options would be equal. We would be at a standstill. If we believe we will inevitably know all things at once, a stance of optional action would naturally be taken. This is not provable but I can only equate this as unity with all things. I believe this entails the highest joy.
RE: No Purpose - Unbound - 08-31-2014
Why do you believe that?
RE: No Purpose - Adonai One - 08-31-2014
When everything is seen as love, it's hard to question that there would be a great state of happiness.
RE: No Purpose - Unbound - 08-31-2014
Does that make love an object? What is the relevance of love to a single self?
RE: No Purpose - Adonai One - 08-31-2014
Love of the self in a position of indefinite lack of social contact, entails a belief in the current expression of the self and its infinite potential so far as to see all potentials of the self are well, acceptable and loved thus requiring no action on the part of the self except as desired as a voluntary, non-compelled co-creator.
The non-requirement of action means that there is no pain from failing to complete an illusory "required" action.
RE: No Purpose - Unbound - 08-31-2014
And so what?
RE: No Purpose - isis - 08-31-2014
Q: what'd u do today?
A: my purpose(s)
Q: what are you up to right now?
A: my purpose(s)
what ever i may do = me fulfilling my purpose(s), as far as i'm concerned, & it feels fulfilling & effortless. i'm not the doer here; in my mind, i'm the observer. not my will but thine
i see nothing but purpose(s) being fulfilled & i see nothing but purpose & fulfillment...& completion, & wholeness, & oneness, & changelessness, & agelessness, & etc...
imo, everything is purpose & not only do we have purpose ~ we are purpose
RE: No Purpose - Adonai One - 08-31-2014
Tanner: Happiness, as failure-to-meet-a-purpose is non-existent as a concept. One can rest indefinitely in peace with what exists.
RE: No Purpose - Unbound - 08-31-2014
So what can someone do who doesn't see, or believe that? How is that useful to anyone but yourself?
RE: No Purpose - Adonai One - 08-31-2014
(08-31-2014, 08:11 PM)isis Wrote: Q: what'd u do today?
A: my purpose(s)
Q: what are you up to right now?
A: my purpose(s)
what ever i may do = me fulfilling my purpose(s), as far as i'm concerned, & it feels fulfilling & effortless. i'm not the doer here; in my mind, i'm the observer. not my will but thine
i see nothing but purpose(s) being fulfilled & i see nothing but purpose & fulfillment...& completion, & wholeness, & oneness, & changelessness, & agelessness, & etc...
imo, everything is purpose & not only do we have purpose...we are purpose
This all falls away when purpose is seen as an unnecessary concept.
(08-31-2014, 08:13 PM)Unbound Wrote: So what can someone do who doesn't see, or believe that? How is that useful to anyone but yourself?It's a concept that requires not seeing anything as necessary, even life itself. I do not require catalyst. I do not have to be here. I do not require anything as I believe all my needs will be inherently met.
It's not a method. It's a state that is a result of realizing love in all things. It's the inevitably conclusion of accepting catalyst.
It's useful as inspiration to the entity that desires peace in the present moment. It is not useful to somebody that wants their reality to meet a ever-certain specification and control it towards such absolutely.
RE: No Purpose - Unbound - 08-31-2014
So basically you are saying that your understanding is the only 'true' understanding of a realization of peace in the present moment?
RE: No Purpose - isis - 08-31-2014
meaning behind the apparent madness? i can only hope
RE: No Purpose - AnthroHeart - 08-31-2014
No purpose but to BE.
RE: No Purpose - ScottK - 08-31-2014
I'm probably one of the few here who is old enough to have identified a purpose and to have completed said purpose, so I will offer my personal reflections on the subject.
I'm 47 now, and I got involved in doing my purpose at around age 44. When I started fulfilling my purpose, I wouldn't have known it was my purpose.
When I was younger, I had a great variety of experiences - many positive, many negative. I was on a winding path with different jobs that I would decide to do on practically a whim, which created a wide variety of experience. My love life was horrendous. I would have characterized myself as agnostic. Some problems with the law, and a very short time in jail. And also some extraordinary success at other things.
All of those experiences, as it turned out, set me up perfectly for fulfilling my purpose by providing the proper knowledge, drive and resources to play the part that I needed to play. It was by all appearances a bizarre, meaningless clusterf&%* that really was a symphony that set me up perfectly for what I had to do. I was "told" what I would do a couple years prior to doing it as well. And now that I fulfilled what I had to do, it's like the creation is showering me with what I want to make my life more enjoyable.
In the larger picture, seemingly, one may just be here to "be", or to fulfill what may seem to be mundane purposes like providing catalyst for others in your life, raising your kids, or also maybe for a more grandiose purpose. But you certainly won't know about it before you do it. I suspect you work and play your way through your experiences, and you just end up where you are supposed to be. I would think the best way for you to not find your purpose is to focus on it and try to force yourself into what your mind thinks it is - as I would see it, that's a potential downside of being spiritual.
If I were to offer advice, I would say to just follow your passions and see where it takes you. All are unique, and all have a different path. You are not meant to know your purpose, you just end up doing it if you let yourself. Life takes a long time too, and one may have to be content with waiting to find out. It's just part of that great mystery which is your life.
RE: No Purpose - manniz - 08-31-2014
Thanks for the hopeful post, ScottK.
RE: No Purpose - Steppingfeet - 09-03-2014
(08-25-2014, 01:38 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: Victor Frankl was a Jewish prisoner of a Nazi concentration camp who was miraculously able to survive thanks in no small part to a faith that he had a purpose and that there was greater meaning. In his small and heartbreakingly beautiful book, "Man's Search for Meaning" he contends that where people have a why, they can endure any how.
That is to say, when one has a sense of meaning or purpose, that meaning or purpose can, above all things, carry one through circumstances and modes of suffering that otherwise could not be endured.
(08-25-2014, 05:15 PM)vervex Wrote: I have not read the book so, please, correct me if I am wrong, but from reading your reply I get the impression this man may have survived in part thanks to his conviction in a purpose and higher meaning. Having a "why", a strong nearly unshakable belief, can help people cope with many horrendous circumstances. In this particular context, it remains however a coping mechanism, a method which can render one unconscious of other alternatives, alternatives which may be difficult for the entity to envision at the time.
My memory is fuzzy on the book (I would like to re-read it, actually). I believe that you identify two things that are both sufficiently distinct AND have a lot of overlap: sense of purpose on one hand; coping mechanism on the other.
In order to cope, one may indeed invent, create, fabricate, or authentically discover purpose.
Likewise, a natural benefit or consequence of sense of purpose is that it may help one to cope. Or, more deeply, help one to gain a perspective that increases the efficiently with which the catalyst is processed, understood, and integrated.
At any rate, the depth and authenticity of the purpose can and is variable, for sure.
But because a sense of purpose helps one to navigate their catalyst, and survive, and respond with a measure of courage, fearlessness, and/or trust, doesn't necessarily downgrade purpose to "coping mechanism", does it?
The Jesus who goes to the cross with a certain sense of purpose, is that purpose a coping mechanism to help him rationalize the coming crucifixion? Or does that purpose help him to actually carry out the intended mission and fulfill the demands of his incarnation?
(08-25-2014, 05:15 PM)vervex Wrote: While I would never dare condemn such technique, I would personally recommend an acceptance of all possibilities as much as possible, while striving for what one desires - in peace and balance.
What if ones sense of purpose is rooted in authentic self-discovery, and as such the individual develops an orientation that does seek to work with what is, and to accept what is, and to focus on what is?
(08-25-2014, 05:15 PM)vervex Wrote: It is my understanding that the solidity (or inflexibility) of the self-assigned life purpose or mission is inversely proportional to one's acceptance to the alternative scenario.
Oh, no doubt that such is one variety of purpose: a self-assigned super-imposing of expectation or desire over top the actual growth patterns of the self. I would imagine that many, many souls become confused in identifying with a certain "purpose" that is not in accord with their heart, and may be the result of pain or fear, or may be a coping mechanism, or may be a self-denial mechanism, or may be a self-justification mechanism in response to self-doubt, or may be (as you said) a conviction that "God" gave them a mission to complete in order to feel a sense of specialness or to justify some otherwise immoral act, or in other words may just be a story they tell themselves for whatever contrived reason.
But, that is not the only variety of purpose.That is just one on the more shallow end of the spectrum of experience covered by the word "purpose". I think actual, authentic, real purpose can and does naturally spring from deeper self-knowing, and self-acceptance.
One can have a balanced awareness that no matter in which direction one heads, all is well and nothing is lost, but remain yet aware that they are, indeed, headed in a particular direction, and thus in wisdom make their choices in accordance with that particular purpose.
We are all in movement, all on a journey. It is well to know our own journey, our own desires, and our own purposes. Ranging from the ultimate, overarching purpose of the Creator knowing itself, to the individual, particular purposes built into the fabric of our incarnations. I believe that each of us (in conjunction with our guides and higher self) literally designed the incarnation to learn certain lessons, achieve certain ends. This could be another way of viewing purpose.
At any rate, I love your emphasis on acceptance. I think that self-acceptance leads to uncovering of purpose, especially the purpose of being.
Just my thoughts.
GLB
RE: No Purpose - AnthroHeart - 09-03-2014
I'm not in a life or death situation, so my purpose really is to finish my work and not get fired. Then to take care of my dog, and stay in touch with friends.
RE: No Purpose - Steppingfeet - 09-03-2014
(08-31-2014, 08:11 PM)isis Wrote: Q: what'd u do today?
A: my purpose(s)
Q: what are you up to right now?
A: my purpose(s)
what ever i may do = me fulfilling my purpose(s), as far as i'm concerned, & it feels fulfilling & effortless. i'm not the doer here; in my mind, i'm the observer. not my will but thine
i see nothing but purpose(s) being fulfilled & i see nothing but purpose & fulfillment...& completion, & wholeness, & oneness, & changelessness, & agelessness, & etc...
imo, everything is purpose & not only do we have purpose ~ we are purpose
Beautiful, isis.
That is the mystics' view. That broad perspective sees purpose being constantly, unavoidably fulfilled, whether in creation or destruction, clarity or confusion, mission completion or mission abortion, or whether the individual entity feels they have a purpose or feels purpose-absent. Purpose at this level cannot not be fulfilled.
I think there is a relaxation that comes in this viewpoint - a loosening of the grip of attachment and expectation, and the releasing of the need for the moment to be anything other than it already is.
And out of this mindset may be born an individual's higher purpose that is surrendered to the Creator and allows the One to work through the individual.
And when self merges into self through the contact with intelligent infinity, and the the confusions and opacity of the personality comes to an end, a *particular* mission/purpose arises which is unique to that individual:
Thus, some become healers, some workers, some teachers, and so forth.
RE: No Purpose - Adonai One - 09-03-2014
Purpose exists but it is inherently fulfilled. It does not require will nor effort. The Creator will know itself and every desire inherently. The Creator knows itself as all things existent and potential according to The Law of One.
Purpose entails a will, a goal to be achieved. This is illusory as an imperative; As a goal is really a passage of a moment that may or may not come. The emotion, the desire for the goal will be satisfied in any case, however, in unity and time. No will is required. No conscious purpose is required.
The archetype of purpose, the significator is optional and may not exist in other creations.
RE: No Purpose - vervex - 09-03-2014
Gary, I completely agree with your post; I believe we are singing the same song, only in a different tune
Purpose can seem a willful act; however, if it comes from a genuine desire for self-discovery and self-acceptance it can lead one to expand their awareness and discover themselves further. The type of purpose I was cautioning against in my post as you have highlighted and explained very well is indeed conviction which would emerge from self-doubt, pain and fear. In all cases it is a choice of direction, and one should be as aware as possible of where it will take them and what emotions lead them to making this choice in the first place. I believe a lack of self-awareness, especially when self-induced, is what leads people to unhappiness.
Quote:But, that is not the only variety of purpose.That is just one on the more shallow end of the spectrum of experience covered by the word "purpose". I think actual, authentic, real purpose can and does naturally spring from deeper self-knowing, and self-acceptance.
One can have a balanced awareness that no matter in which direction one heads, all is well and nothing is lost, but remain yet aware that they are, indeed, headed in a particular direction, and thus in wisdom make their choices in accordance with that particular purpose.
I like very much this snippet above. *thumbs up*
RE: No Purpose - Steppingfeet - 09-08-2014
(09-03-2014, 07:10 PM)vervex Wrote: I believe a lack of self-awareness, especially when self-induced, is what leads people to unhappiness.
I think that statement is probably more true than you or I or most of us presently realize.
Among the adjectives used to describe the real self, the all self, the eternal/infinite/forever self, is "bliss". And not just that bliss is some kind of component or feature or quality of the all-self, but that the all-self *is* bliss.
Though words fall short when attempting to plumb that sort of territory.