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RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - kanonathena - 12-13-2012
It might be easier to see the intelligent infinity as simply existence. Awareness seems to be a distortion of existence, so within the confine of awareness there is nothing we can imagine that's outside of existence.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - anagogy - 12-14-2012
(12-13-2012, 10:49 AM)Siren Wrote: And I also agree. "Nothingness" to me is simply a close approximation to a description for defining that which is an Infinite BEING rather than a "thing." There is no objective referent to Infinite Intelligence/Intelligent Infinity.
It really just boils down to personal preference, but the reason I don't personally use the word "nothingness" is people sometimes confuse it with actual nothingness (as in: devoid of existence). However, I can agree that "infinite potential" would be one way of describing its "thing-less" nature. It's clear to me that no words are perfect descriptors of something that, by its very nature, transcends definition.
Essentially, I'm just attempting to articulate the concept that creation is and was not a "nothing, nothing, nothing, BAM, something", type of situation. Rather, creation is more of a clearing away all that is to not be a part of the creation. Like carving a statue out of a block of marble. You simply remove all the excess material, and there is your statue. It was always "inside" the block of marble.
It just had to be carved out of that infinite potential. The creator does not create from a state of absence, so much as it simply plumbs the depths of its own infinite substance, and chooses portions of its beingness to experience in a seemingly separated illusory environment.
Quote:82.10 Questioner: Why does this partaking in the original thought have a gradient radially outward? That’s the way I understand your statement.
Ra: I am Ra. This is the plan of the One Infinite Creator. The One Original Thought is the harvest of all previous, if you would use this term, experience of the Creator by the Creator. As It decides to know Itself It generates Itself into that plenum, full of the glory and the power of the One Infinite Creator which is manifested to your perceptions as space or outer space. Each generation of this knowing begets a knowing which has the capacity, through free will, to choose methods of knowing Itself. Therefore, gradually, step by step, the Creator becomes that which may know Itself, and the portions of the Creator partake less purely in the power of the original word or thought. This is for the purpose of refinement of the one original thought. The Creator does not properly create as much as It experiences Itself.
Even Ra had an objection to using the word "void" to describe the nature of the source of creation as it evidenced in this section of the LOO:
Quote:82.6 Questioner: That’s what I thought you might say. Am I correct in assuming that at the beginning of this octave, out of what I would call a void of space, seeds of an infinite number of galactic systems such as the Milky Way Galaxy appeared and grew in spiral fashion simultaneously?
Ra: I am Ra. There are duple areas of potential confusion. Firstly, let us say that the basic concept is reasonably well-stated. Now we address the confusion. The nature of true simultaneity is such that, indeed, all is simultaneous. However, in your modes of perception you would perhaps more properly view the seeding of the creation as that of growth from the center or core outward. The second confusion lies in the term, ‘void’. We would substitute the noun, ‘plenum’.
Then again, the nature of language is such that often-times words mean different things to different people, so with the proper context and understanding the word "void" might be a perfectly valid descriptor. Especially where, for you, it means the same thing as "plenum", I just don't personally use it, is all.
Quote:Consciousness cannot actually become un-conscious. It can only forget that it was conscious.
(12-13-2012, 10:49 AM)Siren Wrote: And yet Q'uo and co. have defined the One Infinite Creator as "unaware, infinite intelligence;" "unconscious, intelligent infinity;" and "that great, unknowing, unconscious well of infinite intelligence."
To be perfectly honest with you, I've never found much resonance with the Q'uo channelings or any other "conscious state channeling". The qualitative difference I feel in it, intuitively, compared to say, the Law of One material is VAST. Now, that is not to invalidate it, but it is my sincere opinion that the level of distortion in that body of material versus the Law of One is much greater. The interference is greater from my point of view.
Having said that, I feel it is somewhat of an oxymoron to describe "infinite intelligence" as "unaware". For me, personally, "infinite intelligence" denotes "awareness" or "consciousness" of an imaginably infinite and exquisite nature. All "unconsciousness" is illusory from my point of view. Only in the dream is consciousness *seemingly* reduced. And I don't even like to say "reduced" because that feels inaccurate to me. Rather, I prefer to say "focused". Again, the consciousness doesn't disappear, the energy just becomes more specific, as opposed to "broad". When you focus on something, your awareness of the surrounding environment decreases but your awareness of what is focused on increases. There is a redistribution of energy. This is how all illusions begin.
Even first density matter is "conscious" from my perspective. The difference between the consciousness of matter versus the consciousness of say a 3rd density being is that the 1st density consciousness has become more narrowly focused, or more "specific", so its view of the creation becomes less broad, but it is in no way "unconscious" or "shut off". Even particulate matter is "aware" of energy exchanges of some kind or another. It just has a different "focus" than we do. In otherwords, it is having real conscious experiences, just not self-aware conscious experiences, because that is a broader and less narrowed down point of view.
Even what we call the "unconscious mind" is "conscious" from my perspective. It's just not conscious of the same things the "conscious" mind is. I usually avoid using the word "unconscious" to describe the deeper mind. If I have to, I prefer to say "sub-conscious" because it doesn't carry the implication that is not "aware" of things. Rather both parts of the mind are "conscious", yet they have different functionality, and thus, different streams of thought relevant to their specific functionality.
(12-13-2012, 10:05 PM)kanonathena Wrote: It might be easier to see the intelligent infinity as simply existence. Awareness seems to be a distortion of existence, so within the confine of awareness there is nothing we can imagine that's outside of existence.
From my perspective, intelligent infinity *IS* existence. And existence *IS* "awareness" or "consciousness". This "existence" is akin to "beingness" and it literally is consciousness. Awareness of existence is the pulse-beat of all being.
If you were not aware, could you say you truly existed? Do you see how they are ultimately synonymous?
Awareness of awareness is the undistorted platform from which all patterns of being arise.
However, *self*-awareness is a distortion of pure awareness. Self implies a boundary in an otherwise infinite and boundary-less vista. Self creates a boundary between the inner and the outer. Self is the boundary between who you are, and where you are. When that boundary is dissolved, your consciousness becomes coextensive with all infinity.
This is what some philosophers mean by "nirvana" or "liberation".
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Siren - 12-14-2012
(12-14-2012, 02:40 AM)anagogy Wrote: To be perfectly honest with you, I've never found much resonance with the Q'uo channelings or any other "conscious state channeling". The qualitative difference I feel in it, intuitively, compared to say, the Law of One material is VAST.
I feel exactly the same way towards any other channeled material except that of Ra. I was just bringing Q'uo for further consideration.
Quote:Only in the dream is consciousness *seemingly* reduced. And I don't even like to say "reduced" because that feels inaccurate to me. Rather, I prefer to say "focused". Again, the consciousness doesn't disappear, the energy just becomes more specific, as opposed to "broad". When you focus on something, your awareness of the surrounding environment decreases but your awareness of what is focused on increases. There is a redistribution of energy. This is how all illusions begin.
Exactly. The One Infinite Creator merely chooses (free-will) a particular kinetic focus (Thought/intelligent energy) wherein to design an illusory matrix to play out a specific form of experience of Itself.
Quote:Even first density matter is "conscious" from my perspective. [...] It just has a different "focus" than we do. In otherwords, it is having real conscious experiences, just not self-aware conscious experiences, because that is a broader and less narrowed down point of view.
Fully agree.
Quote:Even what we call the "unconscious mind" is "conscious" from my perspective. It's just not conscious of the same things the "conscious" mind is. I usually avoid using the word "unconscious" to describe the deeper mind. If I have to, I prefer to say "sub-conscious" because it doesn't carry the implication that is not "aware" of things.
Once again, we share the same notions.
Quote:Having said that, I feel it is somewhat of an oxymoron to describe "infinite intelligence" as "unaware". For me, personally, "infinite intelligence" denotes "awareness" or "consciousness" of an imaginably infinite and exquisite nature. All "unconsciousness" is illusory from my point of view.
For what it's worth, this has always been my perception as well. It was almost a "blasphemy" to even consider INFINITY as "unconscious" (even No-Thing-ness, or the VOID, to me was equal to infinite awareness in its unpotentiated state "prior" to any subsequent distortions). However, very recently, plunging deep into meditation, I have experienced something that I can only describe as an "unaware awareness aware of its unawareness of awareness" (talk about oxymoron), and it was just BEING. Of course, I experience this from within this illusory dream/reality of the finity of INFINITY, and the mere experience of me perceiving this very "BEING" from within the confines of this illusion inevitably yields a distorted experience of that very BEING when attempting to put it into such a limiting context as words.
In other words, perhaps all "consciousness" is indeed the result of INFINITY becoming "aware" (13.6 "I am Ra. Infinity became aware."). Perhaps "BEING" itself is not entirely concomitant with "being aware" (the latter being "born" from that primal impulse or original desire of Intelligent Infinity to know/experience Itself—the 1st distortion called free-will). In other words, perhaps awareness of being is not BEINGness itself, but a result of it (the result of that "awakening" desire to know, to experience). Perhaps the Mystery of Intelligent Infinity cannot be consciously known or experienced with any level of awareness, but it can only be BEING. Or perhaps we are just dabbling with semantics!
This is not to disagree with anything you have said, anagogy. I am just allowing myself the "benefit of doubt," shall we say, as to how sure I am that Intelligent Infinity equals absolute awareness! This is not an attempt to "muddle" thing, but perhaps more of a... sort of challenge, or catalyst, if you will. Either way, it's irrelevant, because there is no non-existence or non-INFINITY. It is nevertheless somewhat amusing to play around with all of this using mere words for concepts!
Quote:Awareness of awareness is the undistorted platform from which all patterns of being arise.
I do concede to you that it is certainly difficult (if not counter-intuitive) to conceive INFINITY as something other than an infinite awareness.
And yet Ra said: "I am Ra. Infinity became aware."
I always found that phrase very intriguing, to say the least.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - βαθμιαίος - 12-14-2012
Do you think Ra might be distinguishing infinity (unaware) from intelligent infinity (aware)? "The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity."
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Confused - 12-14-2012
(12-14-2012, 12:31 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Do you think Ra might be distinguishing infinity (unaware) from intelligent infinity (aware)?
Hello, βαθμιαίος! Wow, that is a nice observation. Such a thought did not even remotely cross me, though I have seen that quote many times at b4th. Thanks for pointing out such a possibility.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - anagogy - 12-14-2012
(12-14-2012, 12:12 PM)Siren Wrote: This is not to disagree with anything you have said, anagogy. I am just allowing myself the "benefit of doubt," shall we say, as to how sure I am that Intelligent Infinity equals absolute awareness! This is not an attempt to "muddle" thing, but perhaps more of a... sort of challenge, or catalyst, if you will. Either way, it's irrelevant, because there is no non-existence or non-INFINITY. It is nevertheless somewhat amusing to play around with all of this using mere words for concepts!
You are absolutely fine to question anything of the sort, Siren. :) Even if you don't agree on any particular topic.
The questions are good, and your perspective always welcome.
(12-14-2012, 12:31 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Do you think Ra might be distinguishing infinity (unaware) from intelligent infinity (aware)? "The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity."
(12-14-2012, 12:12 PM)Siren Wrote: And yet Ra said: "I am Ra. Infinity became aware."
I always found that phrase very intriguing, to say the least.
Yes, it is a very intriguing statement. Especially in light of the following quotes:
Quote:27.4 Questioner: Would you define the word intelligent in the context of intelligent infinity?
Ra: I am Ra. We shall address the entire spectrum of this question before defining as requested. Your language, using vibrational sound complexes, can be at best an approximation of that which is closer to an understanding, if you will, of the nature of conscious thought. Perceptions are not the same as sound vibration complexes and the attempt to define will therefore be a frustrating one for you, although we are happy to aid you within the limits of your sound vibration complexes.
To define intelligent apart from infinity is difficult, for these two vibration complexes equal one concept. It is much like attempting to divide your sound vibration concept, faith, into two parts. We shall attempt to aid you however.
So if we are to accept this information, Ra appears to be saying the concept of "intelligent" cannot be separated from the concept of "infinity", because they equal one concept.
So then, what are we to make of the statement regarding the beginning of the creation story, when Ra says "infinity became aware"?
There is a clue in this section I believe:
Quote:13.16 Questioner: Could you tell me about this first density of planetary entities?
Ra: I am Ra. Each step recapitulates intelligent infinity in its discovery of awareness. In a planetary environment all begins in what you would call chaos, energy undirected and random in its infinity. Slowly, in your terms of understanding, there forms a focus of self-awareness. Thus the Logos moves. Light comes to form the darkness, according to the co-Creator’s patterns and vibratory rhythms, so constructing a certain type of experience. This begins with first density which is the density of consciousness, the mineral and water life upon the planet learning from fire and wind the awareness of being. This is the first density.
So, you see, it is not that infinity becomes "aware", as it was always aware/intelligent, but rather, it becomes *self* aware. This is a result of the first distortion: free will. The focusing into an organized "self" is the second distortion. The exploration of finity is the third distortion.
The exploration of the distortion "free will" or "choosing" naturally forms or necessitates and coalesces an organized "chooser". This chooser is the "Logos".
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Ankh - 12-15-2012
(12-14-2012, 12:31 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Do you think Ra might be distinguishing infinity (unaware) from intelligent infinity (aware)? "The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity."
If infinity is unity, then "infinity became aware" must mean that it is already aware, all of it? (i.e. infinity is aware, not unaware?) Or do you distinguish infinity from intelligent infinity where "just" infinity is unaware and intelligent infinity is aware?
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Confused - 12-15-2012
(12-15-2012, 09:16 AM)Ankh Wrote: Or do you distinguish infinity from intelligent infinity where "just" infinity is unaware and intelligent infinity is aware?
Lol...this is such a tongue twister of a sentence!
Only good old Ankh can come up with such extraordinary artifacts
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Siren - 12-15-2012
(12-14-2012, 12:31 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Do you think Ra might be distinguishing infinity (unaware) from intelligent infinity (aware)? "The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity."
I remember discussing this very same question in another thread before. I do see what you mean and it does tickle the logical senses; yet it all comes down to a matter of perspective. And we are just playing with words here, remember that! If you ask me, however, I never saw Infinity as something other than intelligent (whether aware or unaware), so Infinity and Intelligent Infinity, or Infinite Intelligence, equal one concept to me. Also, as anagogy pointed out earlier, Ra said "infinity" cannot be separated from "intelligence." I am congruent with that. There is no difference.
(Though I have no problem seeing it either way; that is: Infinity as unawareness and Intelligent Infinity as awareness.)
(12-14-2012, 10:51 PM)anagogy Wrote: So, you see, it is not that infinity becomes "aware", as it was always aware/intelligent, but rather, it becomes *self* aware. This is a result of the first distortion: free will.
This is exactly where I wanted to get at. When Ra says "Infinity became aware" we may ask: aware of what?
Aware of it-SELF.
We may therefore concur in that (INTELLIGENT) INFINITY is an infinite awareness unaware of self-awareness until it becomes self-aware in its kinetic phase (free-Will>Thought>Light). The original desire (free-will—1st distortion) to know It-SELF lead to a particular kinetic focus of self-awareness known as the Original Thought (2nd distortion), which as a result emanated/manifested the illuminating material known as light, or limitless light (3rd distortion), to create a Creation wherein an experience of It-SELF may be gained and thus satisfy Its intelligent estimate of knowing It-SELF (thus allowing Intelligent Infinity to return to a state of un-potentiaton once again).
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - βαθμιαίος - 12-15-2012
(12-15-2012, 09:16 AM)Ankh Wrote: Or do you distinguish infinity from intelligent infinity where "just" infinity is unaware and intelligent infinity is aware?
I'm wondering if that is what Ra was doing.
(12-15-2012, 10:57 AM)Siren Wrote: Also, Ra said "infinity" cannot be separated from "intelligence," as anagogy pointed out earlier.
For what it's worth, I read that differently. Infinity cannot be separated from intelligence in the context of intelligent infinity. It can be separated in other contexts.
It seems to me that Ra's quotes could be taken to mean that Intelligent Infinity is a focusing of infinity in much the same way that the Logos is a focusing of Intelligent Infinity.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - anagogy - 12-15-2012
(12-15-2012, 10:57 AM)Siren Wrote: This is exactly where I wanted to get at. When Ra says "Infinity became aware" we may ask: aware of what?
Aware of it-SELF.
We may therefore concur in that (INTELLIGENT) INFINITY is an infinite awareness unaware of self-awareness until it becomes self-aware in its kinetic phase (free-Will>Thought>Light). The original desire (free-will—1st distortion) to know It-SELF lead to a particular kinetic focus of self-awareness known as the Original Thought (2nd distortion), which as a result emanated/manifested the illuminating material known as light, or limitless light (3rd distortion), to create a Creation wherein an experience of It-SELF may be gained and thus satisfy Its intelligent estimate of knowing It-SELF (thus allowing Intelligent Infinity to return to a state of un-potentiaton once again).
Yes, this is more or less how I see it.
What helped me to see how it all worked together was the statement by Ra that the densities were a recapitulation of intelligent infinity's discovery of awareness.
In first density, there is consciousness, or awareness, yet it is not self-aware. So what is it aware of? Possibly potential. Raw vitality or strength perhaps. These are my intuitive feelings about it. It is the foundation for all that is to come. Its like a giant pile of legos that is in its disassembled state. It could become anything.
Infinity, in and of itself, is a boundary-less vista of infinite potential existing in a container of awareness or consciousness. It is not organized, and has no need of organization, because it is pure creative energy -- it is where patterns both emerge from and dissolve back into.
From my point of view, "self-awareness" is a limitation or boundary upon on that infinity. It is an identity. An organized pattern of being. Prior to identity, there is just pure unpotentiated awareness of infinite strength of potential, which comes to be potentiated by the catalyst of free-will, or choice. All potential identities exist within that sea of potential. They are like ideas to be explored, in a sense.
Even the Logos identity, which is like, the mother of all identities, is still a self that dissolves eventually, from my perspective. However, "selves" are just lenses for consciousness to focus through. They provide a certain perspective for a time, and then they are abandoned like clothes that are outgrown or sunglasses that one no longer needs. At which point the light that is consciousness, withdraws back to its unstrictured and unpotentiated perspective of no limitations. This is just pure Being, as opposed to self-awareness, which in my way of thinking, implies an identity.
The gap between observer and observed has collapsed here. It is just observing. I'm not sure if there is a meaningful answer to the question of "what is being observed?" however.
I would say "awareness of awareness" but that makes it seem like there is still a duality. Its just oneness. Awareness of oneness, which is not strictured by any filtering "identities". Or as Ra so poetically describes it:
"(from 16.2) [...] one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all."
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Ankh - 12-15-2012
(12-15-2012, 11:23 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: It seems to me that Ra's quotes could be taken to mean that Intelligent Infinity is a focusing of infinity in much the same way that the Logos is a focusing of Intelligent Infinity.
And you don't read it like that or you do?
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Turtle - 12-15-2012
(12-13-2012, 10:05 PM)kanonathena Wrote: It might be easier to see the intelligent infinity as simply existence. Awareness seems to be a distortion of existence, so within the confine of awareness there is nothing we can imagine that's outside of existence.
Yes...that!
We are eternal beings. We exist infinitely "within" existence.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - βαθμιαίος - 12-15-2012
(12-15-2012, 05:00 PM)Ankh Wrote: And you don't read it like that or you do?
I'm not sure.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Confused - 12-15-2012
(12-15-2012, 04:03 PM)anagogy Wrote: Yes, this is more or less how I see it.
What helped me to see how it all worked together was the statement by Ra that the densities were a recapitulation of intelligent infinity's discovery of awareness.
In first density, there is consciousness, or awareness, yet it is not self-aware. So what is it aware of? Possibly potential. Raw vitality or strength perhaps. These are my intuitive feelings about it. It is the foundation for all that is to come. Its like a giant pile of legos that is in its disassembled state. It could become anything.
Infinity, in and of itself, is a boundary-less vista of infinite potential existing in a container of awareness or consciousness. It is not organized, and has no need of organization, because it is pure creative energy -- it is where patterns both emerge from and dissolve back into.
From my point of view, "self-awareness" is a limitation or boundary upon on that infinity. It is an identity. An organized pattern of being. Prior to identity, there is just pure unpotentiated awareness of infinite strength of potential, which comes to be potentiated by the catalyst of free-will, or choice. All potential identities exist within that sea of potential. They are like ideas to be explored, in a sense.
Even the Logos identity, which is like, the mother of all identities, is still a self that dissolves eventually, from my perspective. However, "selves" are just lenses for consciousness to focus through. They provide a certain perspective for a time, and then they are abandoned like clothes that are outgrown or sunglasses that one no longer needs. At which point the light that is consciousness, withdraws back to its unstrictured and unpotentiated perspective of no limitations. This is just pure Being, as opposed to self-awareness, which in my way of thinking, implies an identity.
The gap between observer and observed has collapsed here. It is just observing. I'm not sure if there is a meaningful answer to the question of "what is being observed?" however.
I would say "awareness of awareness" but that makes it seem like there is still a duality. Its just oneness. Awareness of oneness, which is not strictured by any filtering "identities". Or as Ra so poetically describes it:
"(from 16.2) [...] one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all."
I just read this post. I thank myself for making the choice to read this very lucid and insights filled post.
Thank you for taking the time to write this. I learned a lot. In that sense, you have been an excellent spiritual teacher to me, with this lovely post
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Shin'Ar - 12-16-2012
(12-15-2012, 07:23 PM)Turtle Wrote:(12-13-2012, 10:05 PM)kanonathena Wrote: It might be easier to see the intelligent infinity as simply existence. Awareness seems to be a distortion of existence, so within the confine of awareness there is nothing we can imagine that's outside of existence.
Yes...that!
We are eternal beings. We exist infinitely "within" existence.
I see here two fields on the threshold of a comprehension regarding 'being' and the 'connection' of that process of existing to the never- ending Mystery of Infinity.
I would alter what Turtle has said by simply stating, '...we are eternal process..'.
Think on this my friends.
Regardless of any assumptions you have made about my speculations in this community, you cannot deny that it is this thought process of 'we' and 'I' which always seems to be at the forefront of most speculation. Along with the entire library of thought around origin and infinity.
In other words it always boils down to the base element of 'procession'.
Shakespeare said it best, "To be, or not to be? THAT is the question."
Most students of that philosophy have thought that to point to the question of whether life really matters, or not.
Many students of ancient wisdom recognize this as something vastly different.
They read Hamlet's thought processing as absolute confirmation of teachings they have passed on for thousands of years.
Teaching which suggest that all that exists is process, and no one aspect of that process can seclude or isolate it's individuality from the rest of the process.
A process is NOT an entity, nor a being.
A process is 'being in a procession' which leads from one point of being to another point of being.
And this is the state of existence from the Infinite Origin to the Infinite Mystery.
To be is to be in procession, as process.
Not to be is The Mystery which cannot be captured.
So how does this affect our individual familiarities with subjective experience? And do they really matter in the whole picture of procession?
How we answer and understand that question is what defines existence.
Whether a human being, or a plant being, or some higher being, all are 'being', and no one different from another except by that vague fog of individual comprehension which discolors the painting of the landscape by attempting to focus on the details.
I recall being in grade two where our teacher was attempting to have us draw a picture of the forested area outside of our classroom window. It was fall exploding in a myriad of colored leaves.
In my understanding at that time of a tree and its individual leaves turning color as they slowly died, I tried to draw individual leaves and trees.
I did not see the forest for the trees in my effort to portray what I thought I was looking at.
I attempted to focus on the details of the 'process', as individual identities, and not on the whole as the entire 'procession' of the Grand Design of the seasons.
To adapt what Turtle has said into this analogy, an eternal being of individuality, would be one tiny flame burning within the tumult of proceeding fire.
To be or not to be? Are we the flame or the fire?
Those who choose to acknowledge their self as a flame, regardless of their individual glory and affect on the whole, are quickly snuffed out by the sheer power of Divine Design. Even those who think of themselves as The Creator. Because that thinking is nothing more than the process, or procession, of the existing whole.
Those who acknowledge their self as delusion, in the thinking that they are one with The All, and have no true form of identity as individual, suffer likewise at the mercy of the dual nature of creation which causes them to temporarily bear the burden of understanding how a fragment exists as a whole.
Neither bears resolution when any attempt at identification or self is injected into the painting of Divine Design.
Existence is NOT a portrait. It is a landscape of eternally changing form.
"Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,
And thus the Native hue of Resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
With this regard, their Currents turn awry,
And lose the name of Action."
In the end we are nothing more than 'Process of Being'. And an action does not have an identity.
However, in our particular state of procession, that which becomes, is dependent entirely on our fragmented vibration.
We are not the ship, nor its rudder, but the motion which changes the direction of the passage.
Being Procession!
The you and I which establish the varying forces is nothing more than varying vibration.
Vibration which originates in Mystery and continues into Mystery.
Mystery because Infinity has no resolution; only ``native hues` of distortion.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - kanonathena - 12-16-2012
I sense the limitation of words here and how seekers can be easily trapped by their initial interpretation of teachings.
After reading all these posts I feel like just live my life freely, the pressure to "evolve" is gone.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Shin'Ar - 12-17-2012
(12-16-2012, 10:36 PM)kanonathena Wrote: I sense the limitation of words here and how seekers can be easily trapped by their initial interpretation of teachings.
After reading all these posts I feel like just live my life freely, the pressure to "evolve" is gone.
Evolving IS the natural escape from the trappings of limitation.
As natural as the breath which escapes from your lungs.
Limiting one's experience to the present denies the Mystery and becomes a delusion that one can actually escape the evolution of consciousness.
Living in the moment does not mean living in delusion or denial.
Living in the moment means knowing that one moves closer to Mystery with every continuing thought process; a Mystery that will always be just out of reach.
Living in the moment means living in The Mystery.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - anagogy - 12-30-2012
Earlier in the thread there was the question of whether infinity was intelligent, which I understand to mean "aware" in some fashion, or not prior to it focusing into the logos via free will. The following Ra quotes seem to indicate that it was always intelligent:
Quote:51.10 Questioner: Immediately after the death of the physical body you have stated that the primary activated body is the indigo, and you stated that it is the form-maker. Why is this so?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this session of working.
The indigo body may be seen to be an analog for intelligent energy. It is, in microcosm, the Logos. The intelligent energy of the mind/body/spirit complex totality draws its existence from intelligent infinity or the Creator. This Creator is to be understood, both in macrocosm and microcosm, to have, as we have said, two natures: the unpotentiated infinity which is intelligent; this is all that there is.
Free will has potentiated, both the Creator of us all and our selves as co-Creators with intelligent infinity which has will. This will may be drawn upon by the indigo or form-making body and its wisdom used to then choose the appropriate locus and type of experience which this co-Creator or sub-sub-Logos you call so carelessly a person will take.
I am Ra. This is the time for any brief queries.
So the distinction here is that prior to the 1st distortion, free will, which resulted in the 2nd distortion, the Logos, there was intelligent infinity that was unpotentiated. Once it focused into the logos, it was then potentiated. Free will was the potentiator.
Here is a another quote that also makes this distinction:
Quote:28.1 Questioner: I may be backtracking a little today because I think that possibly we are at the most important part of what we are doing in trying to make it apparent how everything is one, how it comes from one intelligent infinity. This is difficult, so please bear with my errors in questioning.
The concept that I have right now of the process, using both what you have told me and some of Dewey Larson’s material having to do with the physics of the process, is that intelligent infinity expands outward from all locations everywhere. It expands outward uniformly like the surface of a bubble or a balloon expanding outward from every point everywhere. It expands outward at what is called unit velocity or the velocity of light. This is Larson’s idea of the progression of what he calls space/time. Is this concept correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This concept is incorrect as is any concept of the one intelligent infinity. This concept is correct in the context of one particular Logos, or Love, or focus of this Creator which has chosen Its, shall we say, natural laws and ways of expressing them mathematically and otherwise.
The one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole, is the macrocosm of the mystery-clad being. We are messengers of the Law of One. Unity, at this approximation of understanding, cannot be specified by any physics but only be activated or potentiated intelligent infinity due to the catalyst of free will. This may be difficult to accept. However, the understandings we have to share begin and end in mystery.
So we can see from this quote that even when infinity is unpotentiated, awaiting kinetic focus through the catalyst of free will, it is still referred to as "intelligent infinity", as opposed to just "infinity".
Quote:41.4 Questioner: In trying to build an understanding from the start, you might say, starting with intelligent infinity and getting to our present condition of being I think that I should go back and investigate our sun since it is the sub-Logos that creates all that we experience in this particular planetary system.
Will you give me a description of our sun?
Ra: I am Ra. This is a query which is not easily answered in your language, for the sun has various aspects in relation to intelligent infinity, to intelligent energy, and to each density of each planet, as you call these spheres. Moreover, these differences extend into the metaphysical or time/space part of your creation.
In relationship to intelligent infinity, the sun body is, equally with all parts of the infinite creation, part of that infinity.
In relation to the potentiated intelligent infinity which makes use of intelligent energy, it is the offspring, shall we say, of the Logos for a much larger number of sub-Logoi. The relationship is hierarchical in that the sub-Logos uses the intelligent energy in ways set forth by the Logos and uses its free will to co-create the, shall we say, full nuances of your densities as you experience them.
In relationship to the densities, the sun body may physically, as you would say, be seen to be a large body of gaseous elements undergoing the processes of fusion and radiating heat and light.
Metaphysically, the sun achieves a meaning to fourth through seventh density according to the growing abilities of entities in these densities to grasp the living creation and co-entity, or other-self, nature of this sun body. Thus by the sixth density the sun may be visited and inhabited by those dwelling in time/space and may even be partially created from moment to moment by the processes of sixth-density entities in their evolution.
So in summation:
Prior to the first distortion, infinity is intelligent, yet unpotentiated. My feeling is that this "intelligence" is awareness without any object as a platform for that focus. Basically content-less, in other-words, or we could say the content is the so called "contents container" (awareness). The 1st distortion results in this intelligent infinity becoming kinetically focused, or activated, which then utilizes intelligent energy as the Logos to create patterns within a illusory finite universe.
Anyhow, I just thought I would resurrect this thread for those who were still curious about the topic. Feel free to add your thoughts, opinions, etc.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Unbound - 12-30-2012
Aha I don't really have much to add, but your post here is in synchronicity with some things I have been discussing today and it clicked a piece in for me.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Shin'Ar - 12-30-2012
In the Ra quote below I have inserted in brackets my own word to correlate with the one they use to assist readers in applying my explanations provided in the text below.
QUOTE Ra -51.10
Questioner: Immediately after the death of the physical body(temporary state of being/condensed thought vibration) you have stated that the primary activated body(Sacred Fire/Prana/Chi/life energy) is the indigo(frequency), and you stated that it is the form-maker(creative power/energy/Source of thought vibrations). Why is this so?
Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full query of this session of working.
The indigo body (Sacred Fire) may be seen to be an analog for intelligent energy. It is, in microcosm, the Logos. The intelligent energy of the mind/body/spirit complex totality draws its existence from intelligent infinity(Source Awareness, One Consciousness), or the Creator. This Creator is to be understood, both in macrocosm (Higher state of being, Higher Self Process) and microcosm (lower states of being/lower self process), to have, as we have said, two natures (dual nature/duality): the unpotentiated infinity which is intelligent; this is all that there is.” UNQUOTE
It seems that, in the process of transcribing the channelled communique, because Ra began by saying, “The Creator is to be seen as having two natures”, that the scribe was waiting for ‘another nature’ to be stated, and inserted the colon punctuation mark as though awaiting the other nature to follow here. BUT instead, Ra simply ended with the statement that The One is all that there is. Basically pointing out that, even though The One is understood by intelligent awareness to have two natures or states of being, both higher and lower experiences of Its existence/procession, It is still only One Entity.
Potential simply means that anything which exists, has opportunity to proceed into another state of being. To be something or experience something other than its present state or experience.
Infinity means that existence has no conclusion. Constant procession.
Intelligence means awareness of a state of being. To be void of intelligence would mean to have no thought process or consideration of state of being. Intelligence does not refer to ability or wisdom.
Unpotentiated, infinite intelligence refers a constant state of awareness which has no opportunity to proceed into a different state of being.
For potential to occur, the will to proceed had to be formed and experienced. Free will is the decision of the unpotentiated intelligence to seek something different than the stillness and solitude of 'only one' state of being.
In the course of that will to proceed into something different, creation occurs as the energetic vibration of thought process, manifesting as light and sound frequency.
As this state of being is realized by the now potentiated awareness of intelligent infinity, or the evolving state of being, the procession of being establishes fragments of the one consciousness into each and every thought process which emanates from the Source.
This is the Process of Being evolving into potential creation. And like its source, it is infinite.
This infinite process has no conclusion and no end. It continues infinitely because its source/supply is infinite.
The human experience is one of countless many experiences had by this evolving process of being/state of being, and no single aspect of fragmented thought process/consciousness emanation, is an actual identity/entity in its self/alone/separate.
All is one active experience of The One Source/Awareness/State of Being, and the many fragmented aspects of Its consciousness are simply many processes of Its awareness experiencing the potential which It creates as it wills to evolve into other states of being.
The Higher self is the Highest Self, and as such a state of being, It cannot evolve into higher being, only 'other' states of being. And It can only achieve other states of being by experiencing states of being other than Its original state of unpotentiated Awareness.
This other state of being/potentiated awareness, is the 'otherself' to which the Ra complex so often refers. And this is the state of being which 'we' experience as a functioning part of that process.
'We' are not God experiencing creation in that we are The One Infinite Source of The All, but rather we are simply the process of The Source experiencing other states of being.
A process of being is not an entity.
'We' are mere process of being. We are the process of The One Consciousness expending thought vibrations. We are one of those many thought vibrations, condensing into countless forms as it proceeds into countless states of being.
It is when the intelligent and aware aspect of this state of being adopts an identity with its temporary form that the dilemma of individual self occurs. This mistaken delusion of the consciousness alters the thought process of The One Consciousness experiencing that state of being, establishing a disconnect between The One and the Other, where the Other begins to believe it is an entity itself.
Reestablishing this connection between The One and The Other results in the religion of the human experience as delusional entities/identities and the natural tendency to discover true self.
But in this delusional state of being, the other self, or the other state of being of The One, attempts to seek a 'self discovery' as though it is seeking some confirmation of that particular temporary form. And in so doing, it places its 'delusional identity' into the process of being the One, or being a fragment of the One which is now somehow a separate identity using this temporary identity as a now permanent identity.
In short, 'we', or that state of being which we have deluded ourselves into believing we actually are, is really nothing more than The One in a state of temporary delusion.
It is in fact The One, in a temporary state of being, as are all of its states of being as It evolves from one state into countless many others, many being experienced by it simultaneously, but not meaning that there is only one state of being or experience, and The One, in this temporary state of delusion, proceeds to be 'you', the deluded state of being or process of being.
'You' are the 'deluded process' of one of many processes being experienced by The One Consciousness.
'You' are NOT an entity or identity.
Identity is simply the consciousness comprehending its awareness of its state of being.
And there is only One Consciousness.
This Is the Law of One. There can be only One.
An example would be-
A man named Santiago falls and bumps his head causing a state of amnesia.
He is found by a person who takes him into his family and gives him the new name of Tanner.
Tanner now lives a life believing he is Tanner and has fully adopted his new identity, but the Santiago of his true reality has never been altered, simply replaced by an experience due to the delusion of the amnesia.
Thus when tanner coincidentally returns to the homeland of Santiago, he is immediately recognized as Santiago, his true identity.
The true identity is replaced by the delusional identity 'only' in process of its state of being/delusion, not in actual entity.
Tanner exists only in the state of the delusion of Santiago, a delusion which is further amplified and given substance by the interactions within that delusion.
But however real it may seem to be, tanner can never be a separate entity from Santiago. Only a separate experience of Santiago. Even when it is a delusional experience.
So when this Tanner/delusional state of being, attempts to seek its true self, and because it is unaware of its true identity as Santiago, it seeks a higher state of being as this 'tanner state', superimposing this tanner identity as an entity seeking to know its true state of being, when in reality it is actually Santiago experiencing an 'other' delusional state of being.
This identity which we assume as our 'self', is that 'other' delusional state of being experienced in the delusional state of being/Tanner state of The One Santiago.
'WE" are simply a state of experience; a Process of Being, condensed into temporary form, as the vibration which we truly are transforms and emanates across the Divine Design of The One Consciousness and Its State of Being.
A vibration emanating from the One Consciousness is not, and never will be, the One Consciousness.
The One Consciousness is the origin of state of being; the origin of the Process of Being. The producer of the thought vibrations which condense as they slow into forms which are then experienced by the One.
'We' are NOT that Origin nor that Producer/Creator.
As vibrations emanating from It, The One Consciousness experiences the condensed, decelerated aspects of those vibrations as material existence.
The intelligent awareness/life-energy/chi/prana/sacred fire is fixed into those thought vibrations as they imitate and reflect the character of their Source.
And it is that Sacred Flame which dances in the form of every creation, which causes particular 'states of being' to become deluded into adopting an identity other than The One true identity from which it has spawned.
The Source's emanating thought vibration, or 'state of being' which has condensed into the temporary form of Carla, believes it is an entity known as Carla because it associates its reality and its 'life' experience with the interactions of many other condensed vibrations which acknowledge it as Carla further emphasizing the delusion.
If everyone calls me Carla, and I can designate many interactions as being of this Carla, then therefore I must be Carla.
In other words 'I am that I am, or I am that which I 'proceed' to be.
And this continues until such a time as this Carla discovers that some 'other' recognizes her as some identity 'other' than Carla, and if that other is able to prove to her that she is actually not Carla, but Monica, by revealing others who have also interacted with her as Monica, just as the many who interact with her as Carla, 'she' then becomes confused by the dual states of identity. And in fact, must adopt one or the other as her 'self' identity. 'She'/that particular choice/adoption may proceed as both, living two separate lives or processes. But this 'She'/that particular choice/adoption can only be One entity/vibration/thought emanation/condensation.
There can be only One.
'We' are the Other; the other process of being.
Now, with this understanding, when in the quote offered at the beginning of thread, I continue to insert my emphasis in brackets where Ra further elaborates,
“QUOTE Ra- 51.10
Free will has potentiated, both ( dual natures/states of being), the (One) Creator of us all (The All), and our selves(Its other state of being), as co-Creator, (endowed/reflecting/proceeding/continuing) with intelligent infinity(never ending intelligent,aware procession), which has will (choice/options). This ‘will’ ( Choice option), may be drawn upon by the indigo or form-making body (Sacred Fire), and its wisdom(supply of information) used to then choose the appropriate locus and type of experience which this co-Creator or sub-sub-Logos( other state of being), you call so carelessly ‘a person’(temporary delusional identity) will take.” UNQUOTE
It is my opinion that Ra, or the scribe, has mistakenly used ‘intelligent infinity’ instead of ‘intelligent energy’, to define the ‘Sacred Fire which dances in the form of every creation’.
Used here in its proper context in the same Ra quote earlier, “The intelligent energy(Sacred Fire) of the mind/body/spirit complex totality draws its existence from intelligent infinity(Source Awareness, One Consciousness), or the Creator…” , we can see that Ra is confirming that The One has freely endowed the many fragments of consciousness with the same freedom to exert will or choice options, as It has, limited of course by the actual ‘state of being’ of that fragmented process.
And look at how Ra specifically and very intentionally ends that quote, “…which you call(identify with as) so carelessly ‘a person’…”
THAT my friends is an attempt at giving us a clue, a warning, without actually coming out and infringing on our choices.
Now after reading this, if there is still some need which you have to be that ‘delusional identity’ or ‘person as Ra calls it, which you have erroneously and freely adopted temporarily, then it is simply because you have not attained a state of being evolved enough to be able to comprehend it. And this is not degradation. It is simply the ‘natural progression’ within the Flower of Life; macro and micro ‘states of being’ of One Consciousness.
And this is why, when we are advised to Know Thy self, many of us in the lower state of being assume that to mean knowing that temporary delusional identity rather than the true state of being as nothing more than the continuing evolving process of the One Consciousness. And why we, as we achieve the higher state of being and awareness, struggle to let go of that delusional identity and mistakenly apply that delusional identity as though it is The One Entity.
Godwide is NOT that One Entity. Godwide is a delusional state of being of The One Consciousness.
As is Tanner, Shin’Ar, Lynn, Tenet Nosche, Siren, and on and on.
All are processes. And processes are not entities.
There is One Entity, and that is The Source of all procession and vibration, even if some of that activity subjugates its experience to a temporary identity associated with its temporary state of being/procession.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Shin'Ar - 12-30-2012
For those reading through this as I post it, I am making editing changes at this time so be sure to re-read if you have read before the time designated in this reply as of 11:40
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - kanonathena - 01-12-2013
Potentiated and unpotentiated are two ways to look at the same thing, is this correct? Just how we are one but yet separated, when seeing all as one, the unpotentiated state of creation is seen, and vice versa.
And what is duality, is it the simplest form of finity?
It seems to me that free will, potentiated, unpotentiated, differentiation are different ways to describe the same at maybe different distortion level to cater to the liner mind.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - anagogy - 01-12-2013
(01-12-2013, 03:30 AM)kanonathena Wrote: Potentiated and unpotentiated are two ways to look at the same thing, is this correct? Just how we are one but yet separated, when seeing all as one, the unpotentiated state of creation is seen, and vice versa.
Yes, the potentiation of the finite experience is ultimately illusory. Nothing can actually become separate.
We are all stuck together for eternity.
(01-12-2013, 03:30 AM)kanonathena Wrote: And what is duality, is it the simplest form of finity?
Duality is illusion or distortion. Nothing can actually be dual. We imagine duality by choosing to perceive our cosmic self as an object. Sort of like a snake looking at its own tail and confusing it for something other than itself.
(01-12-2013, 03:30 AM)kanonathena Wrote: It seems to me that free will, potentiated, unpotentiated, differentiation are different ways to describe the same at maybe different distortion level to cater to the liner mind.
Exactly correct, in my opinion.
The state of unpotentiation is the state of zero distortion. This is the clear platform of consciousness or beingness that is the still and beautiful cosmic pond upon which all expressions are reflected upon.
Potentiation is the creation of ripples upon this pond, which distort the pure reflection. It doesn't make the water not water anymore, but the reflection appears different.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Shin'Ar - 01-12-2013
(01-12-2013, 05:11 AM)anagogy Wrote: the potentiation of the finite experience is ultimately illusory. Nothing can actually become separate.
Does the breath become separate from the Breather after it leaves the mouth?
Is the thought separate from the thinker as it proceeds into creation as vibration?
At 700 million miles an hour does the ray of light separate from Its source?
This is potentiation, where without the action of the source, the fragment does not come into being.
I do not like to use the term illusion to describe the potentiation, as illusion defines something as unreal. The potentiation is very real, just as your breath and thoughts are very real. Their attachment and mystery do not make them unreal. And the reality of it all being perceived as form when it is vibration does not mean it is illusion to all beings. It just means that certain life forms perceive the vibrations in their condensed forms rather than the way that many other life forms see them as the vibrations.
To a light being and to The One these are not illusions at all, so how can we say they are illusions?
We say this, or should I say the Ra Material describes it this way because it knows that what is truly vibrations all around us, we rather see as forms. This, the Ra group, refers to as illusion. But I would say that this is a mistaken use of our language and should rather be defined as delusion.
(01-12-2013, 05:11 AM)anagogy Wrote: Duality is illusion or distortion. Nothing can actually be dual. We imagine duality by choosing to perceive our cosmic self as an object. Sort of like a snake looking at its own tail and confusing it for something other than itself.
Clever use of the Ouroboros Anagogy.
But see here is how you actually make my point above. If you think that duality is a matter of choice, choosing to perceive, that also states that there is another choice of not seeing it that way.
And again, what we are talking about should be defined as delusion instead of illusion, because by Divine Design, this duality all around is very real. Without it there is no potentiality. There is no thought process or breath of life, or sound of Word, or projection of Light, there is nothing but unpotentiated awareness.
Duality is the process of potentiation.
The problem which causes us to define it as delusion, is that we do not comprehend for what it really is. Our mistaken comprehensions or inability to comprehend does not render something unreal or illusion, it simply becomes our delusion.
(01-12-2013, 05:11 AM)anagogy Wrote: The state of unpotentiation is the state of zero distortion. This is the clear platform of consciousness or beingness that is the still and beautiful cosmic pond upon which all expressions are reflected upon.
Potentiation is the creation of ripples upon this pond, which distort the pure reflection. It doesn't make the water not water anymore, but the reflection appears different.
Again you state exactly what I have said. The water is very real not an illusion. The reflection is very real as well. If we choose to perceive the reflection as the actual water and not a reflection of it, then it becomes delusion, not illusion.
In the case of the optical illusion it is an illusion because it is a reflection of the real thing caused by refracting light vibration.
But here is the key; there is a difference between the reflection of a thing and the condensed form of its vibrations. One is mimicking the form and the other is a condensed aspect of that form.
Yet again, here is the commonality between all; both are processes. All is process.
Not illusion just because certain aspects of creation are unable to comprehend or perceive a certain way. Just because a process of potentiation is occurring does not mean that how it is perceived defines whether or not it is an actual process or reality.
This is why I think that either the Ra Group, or the scribe, were not applying appropriate translation as they attempted to define these matters.
Creation and reality is not an illusion just because the human is unable to perceive it other than through the way we are designed.
That is simply a matter of Divine Design.
As a field of consciousness, we are not restricted to this physical disability.
If creation is not an illusion to other states of being, are we not being a little arrogant to assume it must then be an illusion?
Is that not the ostrich with its head buried deeply into the sand?
Here we, in human form, limited to human experience, exist in a universe of potentiality and infinite possibility, with countless other life forms all around us throughout the galaxies, and we choose to define it all as an illusion just because we can't see it all the way that gazillions of others do.
Man, our ostrich is extremely arrogant ain't it!
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Cyan - 01-12-2013
This illusion of "the others" is a persistant one isnt it.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Shin'Ar - 01-12-2013
(01-12-2013, 08:51 AM)Cyan Wrote: This illusion of "the others" is a persistant one isnt it.
Persistent in its desire to exist as an intelligent and aware Process of Being.
The delusion that it is other, is not a result of illusion or unreality, it is a result of Divine Design and the Process or Progression of that Design.
Shall we deny the Design in our efforts to be The One rather than a process within the Design?
Maybe all fragmentation and all process of being should just come to a halt and rest in the assurance of being The One.
What then? Is this the end future which I continue some here to be speculating exists in a future of Infinite Mystery?
Shall we return to the stillness of the void as though nothing has ever happened, and once again be aware of 'nothing' other than Self?
Is that not why we have this Process of Being in the first place?
Was this Process and Design established and initialized simply to create the effort to return to the state of being that preceded it?
What a grand waste of eternity and Infinity that would be!
You all go back to the void and look at your solitude as an accomplishment if you will.
I will continue as the Process of Being so that you still have something to watch and enjoy from your lonely solitude of self without Other.
And yet, as long as even my fragmented process alone continues, then so does the Other which you deny. For that Other is the One experiencing creation as It moves and functions as energy rather than mere awareness.
What those seeking to be The One rather than its process of being accomplish is the solitude which The One chose to transform by Divine Design and Energy.
What we suppose is our self, or The One itself, is really nothing more than the Process of Its Being more energy than stillness.
'We' are the process of Being. 'WE' are Process, not entity nor identity.
THAT delusion that we are not the process, but the Source of the process, is the true illusion that Ra speaks to.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - Cyan - 01-12-2013
I find myself agreeing with the heart of your message, even if not the wording of it.
That being said:
![[Image: 2013-01-12.gif]](http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2013-01-12.gif)
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - AnthroHeart - 01-12-2013
Cute Cyan. That's like me. Much of the time I do nothing at all.
RE: The One Infinite Creator becoming aware - anagogy - 01-13-2013
(01-12-2013, 08:42 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Does the breath become separate from the Breather after it leaves the mouth?
Is the thought separate from the thinker as it proceeds into creation as vibration?
At 700 million miles an hour does the ray of light separate from Its source?
It does within the illusion. Separation is an image that is displayed in the inverted reflection of infinity, which shows us a temporary picture of finity.
(01-12-2013, 08:42 AM)ShinAr Wrote: This is potentiation, where without the action of the source, the fragment does not come into being.
I do not like to use the term illusion to describe the potentiation, as illusion defines something as unreal. The potentiation is very real, just as your breath and thoughts are very real. Their attachment and mystery do not make them unreal. And the reality of it all being perceived as form when it is vibration does not mean it is illusion to all beings. It just means that certain life forms perceive the vibrations in their condensed forms rather than the way that many other life forms see them as the vibrations.
From my perspective, illusion just means "not as it truly is" rather than "it doesn't exist". A distortion of the original reality. Everything exists, and everything is real. In relative reality, comparisons are made between "realness" of one thing, and the "realness" of another.
In absolute reality, no such comparisons are made. All is real. No difference between the probable and the actual. No difference between the potential and the kinetic.
(01-12-2013, 08:42 AM)ShinAr Wrote: To a light being and to The One these are not illusions at all, so how can we say they are illusions?
We say this, or should I say the Ra Material describes it this way because it knows that what is truly vibrations all around us, we rather see as forms. This, the Ra group, refers to as illusion. But I would say that this is a mistaken use of our language and should rather be defined as delusion.
A "delusion", from my perspective, is an illusion that is disempowering in nature.
There is nothing wrong with choosing to experience separation. As Ra says, it is simply an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought that binds all things.
(01-12-2013, 08:42 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Clever use of the Ouroboros Anagogy.
But see here is how you actually make my point above. If you think that duality is a matter of choice, choosing to perceive, that also states that there is another choice of not seeing it that way.
It's a matter of "choice" within the illusion. This is very difficult to relay in words, but the *act* of "choice" throws one into the "illusion". All finite realities are contained within the plenum of infinity. Choosing, which is a form of discrimination among "infinite variety", focuses one of these finite "cross sections" or "slices" of infinity into a seemingly separated potentiated existence. This excursion into relativity has no impact whatsoever on the absolute reality, where choice is not necessary.
In the broadest and most absolute unpotentiated reality, there is no choice. In human words, that seems like a restriction, but it is in no way intended to be understood like that. It is infinity. Infinity is all possibility. It is "all choice". It is "all being". So all choices are being explored for all eternity. That is infinity.
I realize you have a different conception of infinity, and that's fine. We all have different pieces to integrate.
(01-12-2013, 08:42 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Again you state exactly what I have said. The water is very real not an illusion. The reflection is very real as well. If we choose to perceive the reflection as the actual water and not a reflection of it, then it becomes delusion, not illusion.
In the case of the optical illusion it is an illusion because it is a reflection of the real thing caused by refracting light vibration.
But here is the key; there is a difference between the reflection of a thing and the condensed form of its vibrations. One is mimicking the form and the other is a condensed aspect of that form.
If I was to continue the analogy, I would say the water is the spirit, the reflection upon its surface is the mind, and the mountains, trees, and sky being reflected are the body.
(01-12-2013, 08:42 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Yet again, here is the commonality between all; both are processes. All is process.
Everything is motion.
(01-12-2013, 08:42 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Not illusion just because certain aspects of creation are unable to comprehend or perceive a certain way. Just because a process of potentiation is occurring does not mean that how it is perceived defines whether or not it is an actual process or reality.
This is why I think that either the Ra Group, or the scribe, were not applying appropriate translation as they attempted to define these matters.
I think you just have a different interpretation of the word "illusion" than Ra used or what the translators/scribers of the Ra material did. Illusion doesn't mean "doesn't exist", it just means doesn't exist in the way that one is "translating" it as.
All perception involves a translation of data. The default state of existence is such that there is no sensory translation of data, there is just raw knowingness, or beingness.
(01-12-2013, 08:42 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Here we, in human form, limited to human experience, exist in a universe of potentiality and infinite possibility, with countless other life forms all around us throughout the galaxies, and we choose to define it all as an illusion just because we can't see it all the way that gazillions of others do.
Illusions serve the purpose of allowing us to see what life is like in separation.
White light is beautiful, but that same white light poured through a prism that separates the colors into their respective spectrums is beautiful too.
Separation isn't wrong, its just an experience contained within infinity. The colors are contained within the white light. They aren't unreal. The prism is the illusion, the part that seemingly separates the colors.