+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Studies (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Spiritual Development & Metaphysical Matters (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: My Thoughts On STS (/showthread.php?tid=4361)
RE: My Thoughts On STS - Shin'Ar - 03-09-2012
Ankh,
I really do appreciate your interest.
Here is an excerpt of the post that you made:
I have a thought that service to self beings might have a very profound understanding of the Law of One; that they even might have an extremely deep understanding of that *all* is the Creator/One, but they pursue that understanding from another angle. My thought is that they deeply *within* realize in a way that is very difficult to understand for service to others beings, that serving the self *is* serving all/the Creator. That is just an idea of course. They are of fourth density and beyond, and have no veil. They know way more than us here in third density. And being extremely wise, neither blind or stupid, they still consciously pursue this path, until the "stop sign", by some reason. UNQUOTE
Now, in my interpretation of what you are saying, those who serve the creator via the STS path are not in third density but are already in 4th. And being wiser than us here of thrid density they have realized that STS is a better way to serve the Creator. And then you go to say that they follow that path of STS UNTIL the 'stop sign.'
It was at this point that I made the remark that you may not have realized the profundity of that statement and how critical it was to the rest of what we have been talking about. I did not mean to be insulting as it may have sounded. I am sure that someone of your enlightened state would agree that it is rare to find others speak in such an enlightened manner.
My point is that, the very fact that there is a 'stop sign', where both paths must merge in oder to continue, suggests that there can only be one truly direct path. It is that one path that they must both become that should be the path that we were on in the first place.
Dear Ankh, I have taken your advice and read through that Free Will post, and I want to ask you something. How does one that is Light, not shine?
I, for the sake of 'buttonholing', could not stop shining just to avoid infringing upon anothers choice to either walk in darkness or walk in light.
The fact that as I tread on the path of Light ahead of them or in proximity to them, and being a Light myself shines on that path, does not mean that I am infringing upon their free will to have maybe chosen the path of darkness instead. It simply means that I, being Light, shone light on the choices that they have to go either way. It simply means that where there may have only seemed to be one path leading into darkness, that now they can see that there are two paths.
I could simply stand there and say nothing, if that would somehow avoid infringing upon them. I suppose I could simply wave hello. But they would still see my shining as I go. That I choose to call out to them to show them where I go is not infringement, it is guidance. The lighthouse does not infringe upon a ship's choice to dash itself into the rocks. I do not seek to gather a flock and lure them into seduction. I do not seek to manipulate anyone into following me where I choose to go. Everyone has the choice to go where they will. But out of love and concern for others I choose to call out to them so they can see that there is another way, so that they do not walk into the darkness without knowing. Is it not infringing upon my free will to cry out, if you tell me that I should not do so?
The more important question here Ankh, should be why is it that my Shining offends those who choose the path of darkness? Why is it that, even though all I am doing is is crying out to them and pointing to the path of light so they can see it and know the choice, that they become offended by the revelation?
We, on the path of light, do not take offense to those who point to the dark path, we simply avoid them and ignore them, knowing their ill fated choice. But we cannot drag them kicking and screaming down our path even if we would try. It must be their choice.
So is it possible for you to explain to me how our Shining becomes an infringement on Free Will?
RE: My Thoughts On STS - Ankh - 03-10-2012
(03-09-2012, 07:53 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Ankh,
I really do appreciate your interest.
Here is an excerpt of the post that you made:
I have a thought that service to self beings might have a very profound understanding of the Law of One; that they even might have an extremely deep understanding of that *all* is the Creator/One, but they pursue that understanding from another angle. My thought is that they deeply *within* realize in a way that is very difficult to understand for service to others beings, that serving the self *is* serving all/the Creator. That is just an idea of course. They are of fourth density and beyond, and have no veil. They know way more than us here in third density. And being extremely wise, neither blind or stupid, they still consciously pursue this path, until the "stop sign", by some reason. UNQUOTE
Now, in my interpretation of what you are saying, those who serve the creator via the STS path are not in third density but are already in 4th. And being wiser than us here of thrid density they have realized that STS is a better way to serve the Creator. And then you go to say that they follow that path of STS UNTIL the 'stop sign.'
Thank you for making the distiction between your interpretation of my words and my actual words. I appreciate this kind of communication, Shin'Ar.
Shin'Ar Wrote:It was at this point that I made the remark that you may not have realized the profundity of that statement and how critical it was to the rest of what we have been talking about. I did not mean to be insulting as it may have sounded. I am sure that someone of your enlightened state would agree that it is rare to find others speak in such an enlightened manner.
I was not insulted by your comment, my brother. I got sincerely amused though.
It is rare that I find someone whose vibration match my own to such an extent that we kind of merge in a complete agreement and understanding. I believe that not even those who are of my soulgroup may give such satisfaction, as it is so in this density, so seeking this satisfaction is useless, in my humble opinion (would be sooo awesome though! =)). I *try* to see each as an infinite intelligence, but it is not always easy. I do, or at least trying to, act outwardly as accepting *all* understandings, as I am seriously trying to learn this lesson. So it is my *intention*, but as I said it is not always so easy, as I tend to think sometimes thoughts like: "What a confused seeker this is".
Shin'Ar Wrote:My point is that, the very fact that there is a 'stop sign', where both paths must merge in oder to continue, suggests that there can only be one truly direct path. It is that one path that they must both become that should be the path that we were on in the first place.
Ra said that the service to self path is the path which is not. So I agree. In the mid sixth density, where these paths merge into unity, into oneness, the path becomes one, which is without the polarity. Polarities are harmonized.
The interpretation of this is of course different for each. I see it as the self is now becoming merged into oneness to such an extent that the difference between the self and the other self is not seen anymore.
Shin'Ar Wrote:Dear Ankh, I have taken your advice and read through that Free Will post, and I want to ask you something. How does one that is Light, not shine?
Is this your understanding of the Free Will, Shin'Ar?
Shin'Ar Wrote:I, for the sake of 'buttonholing', could not stop shining just to avoid infringing upon anothers choice to either walk in darkness or walk in light.
The fact that as I tread on the path of Light ahead of them or in proximity to them, and being a Light myself shines on that path, does not mean that I am infringing upon their free will to have maybe chosen the path of darkness instead. It simply means that I, being Light, shone light on the choices that they have to go either way. It simply means that where there may have only seemed to be one path leading into darkness, that now they can see that there are two paths.
Perhaps the differences in our understandings lies in that I believe that each co-Creator is unique and intelligent, and non infringement on Free Will means to me not imposing that which I have to offer on others. I am trying to reach a realization that each is an unique spark of the One Infinite Creator, and to manifest an understanding that each intelligence already knows its path, and what is "right" and/or "wrong" for them, being intelligent.
Shin'Ar Wrote:I could simply stand there and say nothing, if that would somehow avoid infringing upon them. I suppose I could simply wave hello. But they would still see my shining as I go. That I choose to call out to them to show them where I go is not infringement, it is guidance. The lighthouse does not infringe upon a ship's choice to dash itself into the rocks. I do not seek to gather a flock and lure them into seduction. I do not seek to manipulate anyone into following me where I choose to go. Everyone has the choice to go where they will. But out of love and concern for others I choose to call out to them so they can see that there is another way, so that they do not walk into the darkness without knowing. Is it not infringing upon my free will to cry out, if you tell me that I should not do so?
My brother, you do as you are pleased. I do not wish to tell you what you should do or not. Your path is unique and is of infinite worth. I simply offer my understanding/s, as this activity is of learning to me, not teaching. And my understanding is that when one is serving another self from its own personal belief of what is best and right for that other self, this seeker is not serving another self anymore from a STO perspective.
Shin'Ar Wrote:The more important question here Ankh, should be why is it that my Shining offends those who choose the path of darkness? Why is it that, even though all I am doing is is crying out to them and pointing to the path of light so they can see it and know the choice, that they become offended by the revelation?
My belief is that detachment to the outcome while offering teaching/healing/light/love/whatever is what the Free Will is about. To let each choose and believe as they wish. If someone finds what you have to offer interesting they will come to you by their own free will. Those who not, will choose their own, unique path of walking. This is so, because Creator wants to know Itself.
Shin'Ar Wrote:So is it possible for you to explain to me how our Shining becomes an infringement on Free Will?
Have I succeed?
/
RE: My Thoughts On STS - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 06:08 AM)Ankh Wrote: My belief is that detachment to the outcome while offering teaching/healing/light/love/whatever is what the Free Will is about. To let each choose and believe as they wish. If someone finds what you have to offer interesting they will come to you by their own free will. Those who not, will choose their own, unique path of walking. This is so, because Creator wants to know Itself.
So after all that we have discussed, you finally say something that brings us together. Why didn't you just start with this paragraph ten posts ago? lol
So now my question to you is: "What is it that I am doing that does not fit into the description you have given above? You are offering something to others out of love, and allowing them to discern whether to accept what you offer or not. Is that not what I am also doing?
You know Ankh, I would like to say this even though I might have difficulty/confusion around your interpretation of STS. And I mean this wholeheartedly to all of you who I may have had these discussions with lately. Even though I believe you create a problem with your teaching, I must say that it pleases me greatly to find a place where so much Light on the One Consciousness is radiated. There are few places in this world where one can find the friendly and loving atmosphere that one finds here, and I want to thank you all for your patience and determination. I have a deep bond with you here because I was drawn here from a meditative trance and a powerful guidance. I am so glad to have been led to this place and to find friends that passionately search for the truth of the Law of One.
RE: My Thoughts On STS - Ankh - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 10:45 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(03-10-2012, 06:08 AM)Ankh Wrote: My belief is that detachment to the outcome while offering teaching/healing/light/love/whatever is what the Free Will is about. To let each choose and believe as they wish. If someone finds what you have to offer interesting they will come to you by their own free will. Those who not, will choose their own, unique path of walking. This is so, because Creator wants to know Itself.
So after all that we have discussed, you finally say something that brings us together. Why didn't you just start with this paragraph ten posts ago? lol
We were discussing your thoughts on service to self entities, dear one. This was just a side-discussion.
Shin'Ar Wrote:So now my question to you is: "What is it that I am doing that does not fit into the description you have given above? You are offering something to others out of love, and allowing them to discern whether to accept what you offer or not. Is that not what I am also doing?
Did I say something that made you to believe that I was of the opinion that you do not fit into the description above?
Just wanted to offer this quote:
Quote:17.30 Questioner: If an entity wants to be of service to others rather than service to self while he is in this third density, are there “best ways” of being of service to others, or is any way just as good as any other way?
Ra: I am Ra. The best way to be of service to others has been explicitly covered in previous material. We will iterate briefly.
The best way of service to others is the constant attempt to seek to share the love of the Creator as it is known to the inner self. This involves self knowledge and the ability to open the self to the other-self without hesitation. This involves, shall we say, radiating that which is the essence or the heart of the mind/body/spirit complex.
Speaking to the intention of your question, the best way for each seeker in third density to be of service to others is unique to that mind/body/spirit complex. This means that the mind/body/spirit complex must then seek within itself the intelligence of its own discernment as to the way it may best serve other-selves. This will be different for each. There is no best. There is no generalization. Nothing is known.
Shin'Ar Wrote:You know Ankh, I would like to say this even though I might have difficulty/confusion around your interpretation of STS. And I mean this wholeheartedly to all of you who I may have had these discussions with lately. Even though I believe you create a problem with your teaching, I must say that it pleases me greatly to find a place where so much Light on the One Consciousness is radiated. There are few places in this world where one can find the friendly and loving atmosphere that one finds here, and I want to thank you all for your patience and determination. I have a deep bond with you here because I was drawn here from a meditative trance and a powerful guidance. I am so glad to have been led to this place and to find friends that passionately search for the truth of the Law of One.
I am happy to hear that!
Ehum, do you think/consider that I am teaching? If so, I appologize. Besides this choice of words, what problem do you mean that I create when sharing my thoughts? Would you please be specific about this problem?
What I meant saying:
(03-07-2012, 04:14 PM)Ankh Wrote:(03-07-2012, 02:38 PM)godwide_void Wrote: By serving "the self" you still serve God, albeit in a spiritually ignorant, divisive, separated and distorted manner.
I have a thought that service to self beings might have a very profound understanding of the Law of One; that they even might have an extremely deep understanding of that *all* is the Creator/One, but they pursue that understanding from another angle. My thought is that they deeply *within* realize in a way that is very difficult to understand for service to others beings, that serving the self *is* serving all/the Creator. That is just an idea of course. They are of fourth density and beyond, and have no veil. They know way more than us here in third density. And being extremely wise, neither blind or stupid, they still consciously pursue this path, until the "stop sign", by some reason.
Is that it is up to each intelligence to discern/understand the reason I was speaking of in my last sentence. My own reason or understanding I have already presented in the sentences before that word. So the last words "by some reason" were more meant as to indicate that this was my personal thinking.
Another reason for service to self beings choosing the path they choose, is perhaps being completely personal. This path or polarity is thought through on sub-logoi level, and we, as sub-sub-logoi, experience it, making our choice. Sub-sub-logoi choice of it might be as simple as:
Ra Wrote:19.16 Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates the momentum towards the chosen path of service to self?
Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.
All these experiences are available. It is the free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.
RE: My Thoughts On STS - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
And when that form of pleasure is the beating of innocent people, regardless of it being a choice of free will, it is still inhumanity and wrong.
Here is a cut from your post: Just know that this "saving others" service, is not of service to others oriented nature, as we have been taught by social memory complexes Ra and Latui. Specifics of this you can read in that FREE WILL thread that I've already mentioned. The service that you bring to another self, must be done from that other self's perspective, and not from yours. Because if you are providing service from your persepctive, from what you think is right and best for that other self, you cease serving that person, and now... serving the self. UNQUOTE
Does this not contradict what you say here? "My belief is that detachment to the outcome while offering teaching/healing/light/love/whatever is what the Free Will is about. To let each choose and believe as they wish. If someone finds what you have to offer interesting they will come to you by their own free will. Those who not, will choose their own, unique path of walking. This is so, because Creator wants to know Itself." UNQUOTE
The first quote is the specific quote that lead me to believe that you believed that my lighting the path for others was an infirngement on their free will. And I think there may have been a couple of other posts where you spoke of infringement as well. But, I am also seeing that there seems to the possibility of some misunderstanding here, according to your quote in the post above where we seem to agree.
Oftentimes these discussions get muddled in the complexity of their finer details. You are right that you have me confused.
I simply cannot understand how a loving person can see love in an act of brutality whether that brute has the choice to act in such a way or not, or whether we are all of One Consciousness or not.
I believe that there are extremes that cannot be accepted as good or tolerable, and I believe that although we are One Consciousness, it is a Consciousness that is fragmented for the purpose of the expression of free will, and with that free will, also discernment, and therefore judgment and common sense. I agree that we should never impose our choices on others, but we must use discretion and reason to judge what is extreme and intolerable with regard to inhumanity.
RE: My Thoughts On STS - Ankh - 03-10-2012
(03-10-2012, 12:22 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Here is a cut from your post: Just know that this "saving others" service, is not of service to others oriented nature, as we have been taught by social memory complexes Ra and Latui. Specifics of this you can read in that FREE WILL thread that I've already mentioned. The service that you bring to another self, must be done from that other self's perspective, and not from yours. Because if you are providing service from your persepctive, from what you think is right and best for that other self, you cease serving that person, and now... serving the self. UNQUOTE
Does this not contradict what you say here? "My belief is that detachment to the outcome while offering teaching/healing/light/love/whatever is what the Free Will is about. To let each choose and believe as they wish. If someone finds what you have to offer interesting they will come to you by their own free will. Those who not, will choose their own, unique path of walking. This is so, because Creator wants to know Itself." UNQUOTE
Ehum...? These are different ways of saying the same thing, as I see it.
Shin'Ar Wrote:Oftentimes these discussions get muddled in the complexity of their finer details. You are right that you have me confused.
I am confused too right now, not knowing exactly what topic we are discussing.
Shin'Ar Wrote:I agree that we should never impose our choices on others, but we must use discretion and reason to judge what is extreme and intolerable with regard to inhumanity.
I am speaking more of sharing spiritual information with others, as in imposing understandings upon other selves. If you are speaking of beating innocent people up, and similar, then I will not lie to you. I will do everything in my power to stop such an entity and such an act if I saw it happening. Being in third density, there is a choice to make, and I am not Jesus.
I would not accept such an activity happening in front of me, but that will indeed cause me depolarization. But I do *not* wish to judge this entity. There is another thread on this forum called "Acceptance and Will" which discusses these issues quite extensively.
RE: My Thoughts On STS - Shin'Ar - 03-10-2012
Well it seems that you and I are the only ones any longer involved in this discussion, and I do appreciate your time and consideration. I admit to not understanding your support of STS, similar to the confusion I have with many others in this forum on that topic. It does seem to me to be the main flaw, not in Ra's teaching, but in the human interpretation of it. As is so with most religious teachings and philosophies.
But we are agreed that once the light has been shone on a matter, it then up to those who are exposed to it to discern whcih way they will go from there.
So let us agree that we have both shone our light, albeit on different paths.