(08-09-2016, 11:12 AM)YinYang Wrote: There comes a point when a sufficient number of facts spell a truth, and from that point further facts exemplifying the same truth become redundant.

(08-09-2016, 11:12 AM)YinYang Wrote: now
There comes a point when a sufficient number of facts spell a truth, and from that point further facts exemplifying the same truth become redundant.

herald Wrote:Wow! … You mean Gurdjieff impregnated some women, spent some time in the slammer, and then fifty years after death caused a satanist writer to take his own life? That’s Badass! -maybe he really was the devil, after all. I guess I’ll just have to flip on over to negative polarity. Thanks for bringing so much light to this thread.

Minya Wrote:This is a bit how an initiatory experience works, or at least did in my case. It requires a little bit a trust which allows a sincere opening,

Gurdjieff Wrote:My way is to develop the hidden potentialities of man; a way that is against Nature and against God. This idea of the hidden potentialities of Man is fundamental. It often leads to the rejection of science and a disdain for ordinary human beings. On this level very few men really exist. To be, means to be something different. The ordinary man, "natural" man is nothing but a worm, and the Christians' God nothing but a guardian for worms.

Quote:The methods and techniques employed by Gurdjieff in his teaching, especially the difficult physical and emotional demands he made on his students, adversely affected many of them. Some students experienced psychological breakdown, others the dissolution of their marriage. Gurdjieff was even accused of contributing to the suicide of certain students, although a causal connection was never ultimately proven.

Quote:As early as 1922, reports circulated in the press that Gurdjieff was a ‘black magician’ who hypnotized his students and caused them irreparable harm. The most sensational stories were more imagination than fact, but there is evidence from more credible sources that some of Gurdjieff’s followers experienced serious psychological damage. John Bennett was a student at Gurdjieff’s Institute at the Prieuré in Fontainebleau in 1923, and at the time witnessed an extraordinary state of tension there: “Some people went mad. There were even suicides. Many gave up in despair.” (2) In 1948, Bennett returned to study with Gurdjieff in Paris after an absence of more than twenty years. Again, the atmosphere surrounding Gurdjieff was charged and intense, with the effect being too powerful for many students. Bennett reports that several pupils were so shattered by their experiences with Gurdjieff that they required treatment in mental institutions.

Quote:Gurdjieff grew increasingly impossible, and the final straw was a terrifying experience when the couple were leaving Paris for New York in February 1929. Gurdjieff transfixed Jessie Orage with his gaze. He seemed to immobilize her, and she could not breathe; for a moment she was convinced that he was going to make her lose consciousness altogether. Then he spoke: “If you keep my super-idiot from coming back to me, you burn in boiling oil.”

Quote:In my own mind lies no longer any faintest doubt about Gurdjieff and his Institute. Signs of hoofs and horns are all over the place, and my deep and instant distrust, which increased with every day I spent there, find confirmation now wherever I turn. Much, of course, remains inexplicable, and will always remain so. Gurdjieff, with reason, is aloof and inaccessible, and the full truth of his motive we shall never know. That it is wholly a self or selfish motive, I am convinced . . . The note of fear, rather than love, is too conspicuous to miss.

Quote:Sufi teacher Omar Ali-Shah writes: “The amount of confusion and damage which was caused and still is being caused by Gurdjieff and his followers can be measured only in terms of human suffering and pain.”

(08-10-2016, 01:30 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote: G was a complex person as his teachings were but one thing i've read many times and i'm almost sure about is that he was a master manipulator and it appears that all kinds of people even the very intelligent, well intentioned, strong willed and educated people were manipulated by him. A few years ago i searched on youtube for some teachers of the 4th way and i found something that felt not right. I didn't saw much love and compassion, that's the problem, we're in a planet were the most important lesson is opening the heart.

(08-10-2016, 04:15 PM)BlatzAdict Wrote: Hey Yin Yang, I really enjoyed your breakdown of Gurdjieff and I hope you don't mind I copied and pasted some of your comments to my group almost like 2 weeks ago: https://www.facebook.com/groups/copitsotic/

It's part of my effort to get those who are new who read the Law of One to come to the L/L Research forums and to incite further discernment of individuals and sources channeled or otherwise on the Facebook end of the online spectra.

(08-10-2016, 04:18 PM)YinYang Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 04:15 PM)BlatzAdict Wrote: Hey Yin Yang, I really enjoyed your breakdown of Gurdjieff and I hope you don't mind I copied and pasted some of your comments to my group almost like 2 weeks ago: https://www.facebook.com/groups/copitsotic/

It's part of my effort to get those who are new who read the Law of One to come to the L/L Research forums and to incite further discernment of individuals and sources channeled or otherwise on the Facebook end of the online spectra.

Thanks Blatz, never thought I'd have to revisit Gurdjieff! I'll check out your page!

(08-10-2016, 01:52 PM)YinYang Wrote:

(08-10-2016, 01:30 PM)GentleWanderer Wrote: G was a complex person as his teachings were but one thing i've read many times and i'm almost sure about is that he was a master manipulator and it appears that all kinds of people even the very intelligent, well intentioned, strong willed and educated people were manipulated by him. A few years ago i searched on youtube for some teachers of the 4th way and i found something that felt not right. I didn't saw much love and compassion, that's the problem, we're in a planet were the most important lesson is opening the heart.

Yeah, he attracted the who's who of his day; musicians, dancers, writers and poets... I'm very happy you listened to your intuition, otherwise we had to go in there and get you! ~ Just a little joke, trying to bring some funny into a not so funny topic ~

BlatzAdict Wrote:https://www.facebook.com/groups/copitsotic/permalink/1500245556668224/ I literally took you word for word to prove a point upon a post I felt the need to delete that had to do with Gurdjieff.

I do post channelings unrelated to the Law of One, though I tend to pick ones that focus on unity, divine feminine & masculine, and others that i find congruent to LOO. Every so often I do see people try to post stuff that is a bit distorted from the main message of the LOO, and sometimes you guys here in the forums just describe something way better than I can hope to. 

Ouspensky Wrote:Suddenly I noticed that among the words which he was saying to us all there were “thoughts” which were intended for me. I caught one of these thoughts and replied to it, speaking aloud in the ordinary way. G. nodded to me and stopped speaking. There was a fairly long pause. He sat still saying nothing. After a while I heard his voice inside me as it were in the chest near the heart. He put a definite question to me. I looked at him; he was sitting and smiling.

Boris Mouravieff Wrote:The effects of Gurdjieff's hypnotic influence upon his immediate surroundings were quite visible. He could have proposed any absurdity to his disciples, and be sure in advance that it would be accepted with the same enthusiasm as if it were a revelation.

Fritz Peters Wrote:The rebellious did not stay at the Prieuré to exchange banter, and they were not permitted to stay to challenge or oppose him; the ‘philosophical dictatorship’ brooked no opposition.

Gurdjieff Wrote:Black magic is based on infatuation and on playing upon human weaknesses. Black magic has always one definite characteristic. This characteristic is the tendency to use people for some, even the best of aims, without their knowledge and understanding, either by producing in them faith and infatuation or by acting upon them through fear.

GentleWanderer Wrote:Happily there are texts like the LOO

Quote:Crowley arrived for a whole weekend and spent the time like any other visitor to the Prieuré; being shown the grounds and the activities in progress, listening to Gurdjieff's music and his oracular conversation. Apart from some circumspection, Gurdjieff treated him like any other guest until the evening of his departure. After dinner of Sunday night, Gurdjieff led the way out of the dining room with Crowley, followed by the body of the pupils who had also been at the meal.

Crowley made his way toward the door and turned to take his leave of Gurdjieff, who by this time was some way up the stairs to the second floor. "Mister, you go?" Gurdjieff inquired. Crowley assented. "You have been guest?" - a fact which the visitor could hardly deny. "Now you go, you are no longer guest?" Crowley - no doubt wondering whether his host had lost his grip on reality and was wandering in a semantic wilderness - humored his mood by indicating that he was on his way back to Paris.

But Gurdjieff, having made the point that he was not violating the canons of hospitality, changed on the instant into the embodiment of righteous anger. "You filthy," he stormed, "you dirty inside! Never again you set foot in my house!" From his vantage point on the stairs, he worked himself into a rage which quite transfixed his watching pupils. Crowley was stigmatized as the sewer of creation was taken apart and trodden into the mire. Finally, he was banished in the style of East Lynne by a Gurdjieff in fine histrionic form. White faced and shaking, the Great Beast crept back to Paris with his tail between his legs.

herald Wrote:Georges Gurdjieff did not write the above quote, that was Ouspensky.

In Search of the Miraculous Wrote:"But if I joined your group," I said to G., "I should be faced with a very difficult problem. I do not know whether you exact a promise from your pupils to keep secret what they learn from you, but I could give no such promise. There have been two occasions in my life when I had the possibility of joining groups engaged in work which appears to be similar to yours, at any rate by description, and which interested me very much at the time. But in both cases to join would have meant consenting or promising to keep secret everything that I might learn there. And I refused in both cases, because, before everything else, I am a writer, and I desire to be absolutely free and to decide for myself what I shall write and what I shall not write. If I promise to keep secret something I am told, it would be very difficult afterwards to separate what had been told me from what came to my own mind either in connection with it or even with no connection. For instance, I know very little about your ideas yet, but I do know that when we begin to talk we shall very soon come to questions of time and space, of higher dimensions, and so on. These are questions on which I have already been working for many years. I have no doubt whatever that they roust occupy a large place in your system." G. nodded. "Well, you see, if we were now to talk under a pledge of secrecy, then, after the first conversation I should not know what I could write and what I could not write."

"But what are your own ideas on the subject?" said G. "One must not talk too much. There are things which are said only for disciples." "I could accept such a condition only temporarily," I said. "Of course it would be ludicrous if I began at once to write about what I learn from you. But if, in principle, you do not wish to make a secret of your ideas and care only that they should not be transmitted in a distorted form, then I could accept such a condition and wait until I had a better understanding of your teaching. I once came across a group of people who were engaged in various scientific experiments on a very wide scale. They made no secret of their work. But they made it a condition that no one would have the right to speak of or describe any experiment unless he was able to carry it out himself. Until he was able to repeat the experiment himself he had to keep silent."

"There could be no better formulation," said G., "and if you will keep such a rule this question will never arise between us."

herald Wrote:Pyotor Ouspensky was one that Peters says was “not permitted to stay” because his “banter” confused the goals that many people were making sacrifices to come together and realize.

herald Wrote:Poor battered and abandoned Fritz Peters, everyone should learn what Gurdjieff did for him.

Gurdjieff to Fritz Peters Wrote:You not learn my work from talk and book - you learn in skin, and you cannot escape. If you never go to meeting, never read book, you still cannot forget what I put inside you when you child. I already in your blood - make your life miserable forever - but such misery can be good thing for your soul, so even when miserable you must thank your God for suffering I give you.

herald Wrote:As for Boris, I think he might have been an agent of the revolution along with Rasputin, they certainly didn’t suffer much in their lives.

herald Wrote:Ouspensky and Mouravieff were cohorts that stole G’s ideas and distorted them for their own designs.

herald Wrote:“doom and gloom”, which Gurdjieff never espoused; war, and Gurdjieff was a pacifist.

herald Wrote:“Sexual freedom”... and actually G. was quite prudent about such things and always honored his wife and her family.

herald Wrote:He did not enjoy material gains and always shared his wealth.

herald Wrote:He was reverent and kind- though at times shocking and off-putting. But then again, so is the Ra group.

herald Wrote:I believe my green ray was activated by the efforts of Gurdjieff and some of those who learned from him, and I hope that forthcoming our consensus will become:

herald Wrote:"some people have been hurt by some people who have been influenced somehow by this man.”

(08-20-2016, 07:22 AM)herald Wrote: Thank you for clarifying that Ouspensky wrote the quotes that he and you previously attributed to Gurdjieff.

herald Wrote:Most accounts of Pyotor Damien state that he was asked to leave. I remain consistent that Ouspensky’s “banter” and distortion of the material was the reason.

herald Wrote:Please do, pick up a copy of Fritz Peters’ book about his love for the man who saved him from his abusive family. It is too bad the quip you quote has no context for the word “suffering” which I, as a student of The Work and The Ra Material translate as “managing one’s catalyst”. (But what ev"s right?)

herald Wrote:Boris was likely a Russian spy who was an agent of the Bolshevik Revolution (which some, like myself feel was engineered by Rasputin). Bennett was a spy for the ENGLISH Army! (He joined as a teenager and was promoted quickly because of his knack for learning languages).

herald Wrote:Do you really think STO is delighted to have ideas to help humanity twisted and distorted by others?

herald Wrote:Gurdjieff”s "Critical Mass Theory” … never heard of it. Involvement with Nazis: Never even has an innuendo made that stretch.

herald Wrote:On sexual conduct, it is obvious that G. was as I said prudent. Especially in comparison to the STS examples in the LOO books. Many women claimed to have had consensual sex with him, but that is no different from examples of other beings of STO persuasion given in the books.

herald Wrote:Gurdjieff’s pacifism, is unquestionable to anyone who reads his chapter on war. He calls it the single most destructive influence on humanity and says that trying to end war once and for all should be our most urgent and pressing concern. He did point out that this senseless reciprocal destruction was often due to an arising of a kind of tension in humanity, that he called “Remorse of Conscience”, and prayed with the reader that it could be used to promote unity in our world.

herald Wrote:I respect the light in your intention.

Quote:Let us re-examine this metaphor and multiply it into the longest poker game you can imagine, a lifetime. The cards are love, dislike, limitation, unhappiness, pleasure, etc. They are dealt and re-dealt and re-dealt continuously. You may, during this incarnation begin — and we stress begin — to know your own cards. You may begin to find the love within you. You may begin to balance your pleasure, your limitations, etc. However, your only indication of other-selves’ cards is to look into the eyes.

You cannot remember your hand, their hands, perhaps even the rules of this game. This game can only be won by those who lose their cards in the melting influence of love; can only be won by those who lay their pleasures, their limitations, their all upon the table face up and say inwardly: “All, all of you players, each other-self, whatever your hand, I love you.” This is the game: to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love. This cannot be done without the forgetting, for it would carry no weight in the life of the mind/body/spirit beingness totality.

Aion Wrote:Really though, I think each gets back what they are looking for. Search for evil and 'STS and you will find it,

Quote:Ra: Thus, to learn is the same as to teach unless you are not teaching what you are learning; in which case you have done you/they little or no good. This understanding should be pondered by your mind/body/spirit complex as it is a distortion which plays a part in your experiences at this nexus.