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RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 12:28 PM)Icaro Wrote: You'd assume there would be some sort of confusion thrown into place for the smaller group so that the rest could move forward with their desires. It's possibly related to the collective's long history of destruction with such technology.Yes, I'm thinking Ra's communication was distorted according to what focus Don's worldview was able to provide.
Ra might also just be having to answer through Don's own distortion of heavy conspiracy..that is an early session.
(02-22-2014, 12:46 PM)Steppenwolf Wrote: Could you explain how you conclude past polarisation efforts would be nullified? I see it more as a stalemate, the use of new devices for STS seems to be not enough to overcome STO, so a small harvest would perhaps be from the extremes of each service?violet-ray is the sum total balance afforded by all polarization efforts, and what affords harvest. If the harvest is caused to be small due to a group of people's (recent) intended use of technological devices, then they of course nullified those past efforts or depolarized people in the current incarnations.
RE: intended use of devices - Horuseus - 02-22-2014
Well, I'm assuming we're all agreed the 'small group' from our 'peoples' is in reference to an Elite Cabal of sorts here. They have the capacity to build some of the devices contributing towards the UFO phenomenon which the mass are not aware of on a conscious basis. Now, this group for the most seems to be STS polarised, whereas the majority mass seem to be in Limbo. The intention and use of this technology (Which is merely a placeholder) by the group further expounds polarization towards STS. However, there are also conscious STO groups within this mass, which results in a dishomogeneous state in terms of the collective condition of Humanity.
In other words, humanity is necessarily a fractal macro representation of the inner psyche of Man. In this case, the mind is in conflict, because while there are some parts of the 'Hive Mind' which wish to serve others there are other aspects of this 'collective psyche' which wish to serve themselves. This necessarily causes rift within the Human Organ on Earth, as the Organ cannot function if all it's parts are not working cohesively, or rather operating on the same spectrum of vibration and polarity. If you imagine Humanity as a single man it appears that it is hurting others whilst simultaneously tending to those it injured (Which is asinine and not logical at all).
So, it's a tug of war between STS Groups <- Mass in Limbo -> STO Groups. The 'Mass' are being pulled from both sides, though it seems the collective decision has been made to follow STO. Not surprising given useful catalyst is running out, as you can only drag this game out so long (Just look what happened on Maldek, which is where we were headed). We also need to remember that there was a mass collective agreement made unconsciously to play the game of believing only a few have 'power'. Let's not forget that the STS is simply an external representation for those inner aspects of self unaccepted, and so as that is worked on individually, so will the effect be magnified collectively. Micro to Macro.
Edit: -
RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 01:09 PM)Horuseus Wrote: Not surprising given useful catalyst is running outI'm thinking the opposite. That useful catalyst will actually increase.
RE: intended use of devices - βαθμιαίος - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 12:30 PM)zenmaster Wrote: However, in the context of the full quote, they said it "causes the harvest to be small." The devices are relatively new. Therefore, the implication is that all of society's past polarization efforts (from prior lifetimes) are nullified, unless somehow most people's progress would somehow have had to be made in the last couple of incarnations, which seems wrong.
The harvest was already going to be small. It's just that this opportunity to increase it is being withheld.
RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 01:23 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:I agree with that, but I don't see the implication of that at all from the Q/A.(02-22-2014, 12:30 PM)zenmaster Wrote: However, in the context of the full quote, they said it "causes the harvest to be small." The devices are relatively new. Therefore, the implication is that all of society's past polarization efforts (from prior lifetimes) are nullified, unless somehow most people's progress would somehow have had to be made in the last couple of incarnations, which seems wrong.
The harvest was already going to be small. It's just that this opportunity to increase it is being withheld.
RE: intended use of devices - Horuseus - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 01:18 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(02-22-2014, 01:09 PM)Horuseus Wrote: Not surprising given useful catalyst is running outI'm thinking the opposite. That useful catalyst will actually increase.
In what manner? There will always be useful catalyst sure, it's just the theme of catalyst is likely to become awfully repetitive Imo, and therefore will change to accommodate that. In this case catalyst seems to be working with Limitation of awareness, which we appear to be moving away from.
RE: intended use of devices - native - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 12:46 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Yes, I'm thinking Ra's communication was distorted according to what focus Don's worldview was able to provide.
Ra has always seemed to emphasize going deeper within and exercising the discipline of personality over external aids, yet with this collective it seems that technology has always been and always will be a large part of development. So I've come to accept that, as I've also been wondering lately if my opinion on the matter affects development itself.
I can see how it's possible that when I look outwards and the collective seems to be saying "We would like to use technology" and I say "No, it's best that you learn some wisdom", that through the disciplines of personality itself, I might be contributing to an absorptive charge. So while I still believe inner development to be essential, I try to stay detached from that opinion, realizing that technology is beneficial here.
RE: intended use of devices - AnthroHeart - 02-22-2014
That would be interesting if there were stargate type technology that you walk through to access intelligent infinity and automatically harvest yourself to the next density. A stargate into 4D in other words.
RE: intended use of devices - Bring4th_Austin - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 12:46 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(02-22-2014, 12:28 PM)Icaro Wrote: You'd assume there would be some sort of confusion thrown into place for the smaller group so that the rest could move forward with their desires. It's possibly related to the collective's long history of destruction with such technology.Yes, I'm thinking Ra's communication was distorted according to what focus Don's worldview was able to provide.
Ra might also just be having to answer through Don's own distortion of heavy conspiracy..that is an early session.
As far as I'm aware (I may be wrong), Don didn't necessarily have a distortion of heavy conspiracy. He was interested in UFO's and paranormal but even he was inclined to disbelieve this information and found it so odd that he excluded it from the original publication of the material. Don even followed up on his hunch that Ra might include intentionally erroneous information to preserve free will (which Ra denied...of course, maybe that was erroneous too
). If these were Don's distortions, why would he immediately be shocked by this information, and then decide to exclude it from the material? He thought this information was more of a hindrance than informative.On top of that, Don didn't necessarily ask for this specific information. Ra could have simply stopped at the first sentence which would have sufficiently addressed Don's question. Information about how this hinders harvest is additional to his inquiry. So it's not even his distortions presented through questioning which brought this information through.
Is there any indication in the Ra material that the Law of Squares would apply to a situation like this? Or is it an assumption that the Law of Squares is applicable to more than what is explicitly discussed in the material?
I don't really have an issue believing that a small number of people could keep information like this hidden. Even taking into account the intention of the large majority - all the small minority has to do is to manipulate the intentions of the large majority in order to stop it from "overriding" per se.
The bigger curiosity for me is how the technology itself, not the ability of a few people to keep it hidden, affects harvest. I don't think this is too far-fetched though.
Consider the line: This further muddles the vibratory nexus of your social memory complex, causing a situation whereby neither those oriented towards serving others nor those oriented towards serving self can gain the energy/power which opens the gates to intelligent infinity for the social memory complex.
Consider the idea that not only are we affected by our own m/b/s distortions, but also by our social memory complex distortions, and again by distortions in the planetary sphere energy. This technology uses the planetary sphere energy. This technology no doubt relies on knowledge of this type of energy and its blockages, distortions, etc. Perhaps the technology itself, as it is used, is compounding these distortions? Perhaps the failure to utilize the potential of this technology compounds these distortions? Perhaps this knowledge of the energies used in this technology is available to our social mind and is manifested but is then actively suppressed?
There's no way to know exactly what's happening since Don and Ra never discussed this line of questioning in that light, but it really doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me.
RE: intended use of devices - native - 02-22-2014
Thanks for the clarification Austin. I should say that I used the word conspiracy as a broad term related to interpreting experience in terms of allegory and externalizing it as something other than self. At that point in the group's understanding, I think they were naturally still working out the details of the UFO phenomenon, how to interpret it and integrate it into experience.
I agree that Ra could have answered that question more simply and took it upon themselves to elaborate for whatever reason. It goes to show how delicate the channeling process is and that there is much going on with the answers in relation to the questions asked.
RE: intended use of devices - Bring4th_Austin - 02-22-2014
It is interesting that information about Harvest is one of the topics Ra was more willing to talk about outside of the parameters of Don's questioning. It's true that Ra didn't suggest questioning and would only speak about things Don asked about, but when they found an opportunity to expound on certain topics related to Don's questioning, they did so, and harvest/harvestability was one of these topics
RE: intended use of devices - AnthroHeart - 02-22-2014
I'm glad they did Austin. The harvest is my favorite topic. Glad it's not just a transient topic.
RE: intended use of devices - Jeremy - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 07:51 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: I'm glad they did Austin. The harvest is my favorite topic. Glad it's not just a transient topic.
Actually I wish they wouldn't have. Far too often people get caught up with the destination instead of the more precious and worthwhile experience of the journey itself.
RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 01:28 PM)Horuseus Wrote:The manner will be the "increase in influence which has begun to cause thoughts to become things."(02-22-2014, 01:18 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(02-22-2014, 01:09 PM)Horuseus Wrote: Not surprising given useful catalyst is running outI'm thinking the opposite. That useful catalyst will actually increase.
In what manner? There will always be useful catalyst sure, it's just the theme of catalyst is likely to become awfully repetitive Imo, and therefore will change to accommodate that. In this case catalyst seems to be working with Limitation of awareness, which we appear to be moving away from.
RE: intended use of devices - Fang - 02-22-2014
Quote:It does not seem possible that the intention of .0000002 % of people can deny all of the polarization efforts of almost everyone else, regardless of means/opportunities used to polarize. Further, the devices are a rather recent thing compared to the time people have had to polarize - so the intention would have to not only inhibit progress in removing distortions, but to depolarize those already polarized as well.I'm having trouble with this as well. Also, it's interesting that in the original quote "this further muddles the vibratory nexus of your social memory complex, causing a situation whereby neither those oriented towards serving others nor those oriented towards serving self can gain the energy/power which opens the gates to intelligent infinity for the social memory complex. This in turn causes the harvest to be small."
Since when have we had a smc? Does this imply that a smc exists in potential as soon as a collective or societal mind is established and can reach higher thresholds of actualization?
RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 11:18 PM)Fang Wrote: Since when have we had a Social Memory Complex? Does this imply that a Social Memory Complex exists in potential as soon as a collective or societal mind is established and can reach higher thresholds of actualization?The SMC is simply the conscious awareness if societal mind, as opposed to the unconscious reaction to it. We have always had this relationship to mind.
RE: intended use of devices - Fang - 02-22-2014
Ok cool makes sense, I get that but it just surprised me to hear the term used in that context talking of humanity.
Back on topic though, in the early sessions it does seem like Carla was still "tuning up", I don't know how conspiracy minded Don was and his worldview certainly influenced the channeling to a significant extent but I really, really doubt that this is an issue of an elite cabal or whatever.
Also isn't the percentage too small to be a law of squares thing? (not that we have a stable, consistent formula for the law of squares..)
To be honest I'm very confused by the whole thing. I'm leaning more towards your point here
Quote:I'm thinking it's the society which is holding itself in its state, and the actions of a few are just allegorically epitomizing an aspect of that state.
In other words, the vibrational condition has nothing to do with devices whatsoever.
RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-22-2014
(02-22-2014, 11:33 PM)Fang Wrote: elite cabal or whatever.The "cabal" is a meme that people tend to regurgitate unconsciously. Very sad that this meme is propagated.
(02-22-2014, 11:33 PM)Fang Wrote: Also isn't the percentage too small to be a law of squares thing? (not that we have a stable, consistent formula for the law of squares..)Only a few posts have actually addressed the question posed. The conspiracy bullshit is hilarious compared to the question posed.
To be honest I'm very confused by the whole thing. I'm leaning more towards your point here
Quote:I'm thinking it's the society which is holding itself in its state, and the actions of a few are just allegorically epitomizing an aspect of that state.
In other words, the vibrational condition has nothing to do with devices whatsoever.
(02-22-2014, 05:21 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: The bigger curiosity for me is how the technology itself, not the ability of a few people to keep it hidden, affects harvest. I don't think this is too far-fetched though.Um consider, "To the disciplined entity, all things are open and free. The discipline which opens the universes opens also the gateways to evolution. The difference is that of choosing either to hitchhike to a place where beauty may be seen or to walk, step by step, independent and free in this independence to praise the strength to walk and the opportunity for the awareness of beauty."
Consider the line: This further muddles the vibratory nexus of your social memory complex, causing a situation whereby neither those oriented towards serving others nor those oriented towards serving self can gain the energy/power which opens the gates to intelligent infinity for the social memory complex.
Consider the idea that not only are we affected by our own m/b/s distortions, but also by our social memory complex distortions, and again by distortions in the planetary sphere energy. This technology uses the planetary sphere energy. This technology no doubt relies on knowledge of this type of energy and its blockages, distortions, etc. Perhaps the technology itself, as it is used, is compounding these distortions? Perhaps the failure to utilize the potential of this technology compounds these distortions? Perhaps this knowledge of the energies used in this technology is available to our social mind and is manifested but is then actively suppressed?
There's no way to know exactly what's happening since Don and Ra never discussed this line of questioning in that light, but it really doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me.
"The hitchhiker, instead, is distracted by conversation and the vagaries of the road and, dependent upon the whims of others, is concerned to make the appointment in time. The hitchhiker sees the same beauty but has not prepared itself for the establishment, in the roots of mind, of the experience."
Please tell me why in the world would Ra say harvest is inhibited by the hitchhiking modality (being restricted)?
RE: intended use of devices - Sagittarius - 02-23-2014
What would be a difference between a disciplined entity hitch-hiking and one walking step by step? Are they mutually exclusive? I would think the hitch-hiking modality comes before a certain point of lucidity, so during the harvest you will have hitch-hikers experiencing the beauty of the violet ray in it's totality but without conscious realization of the experience in the sense that they still feel like there simply watching rather then being the cause and effect of the experience.
Although Ra refers to the hitch-hikers as disciplined as well which leads me to think of indigo ray working.
RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-23-2014
Why is non-discipline a requirement for harvest sag? can't have it both ways.
RE: intended use of devices - Sagittarius - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 12:44 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Why is non-discipline a requirement for harvest sag? can't have it both ways.
Ah was confusing myself a bit there, forgot to make the distinction between harvested and non-harvested or repeaters. This makes more sense with the hitchhikers getting a glimpse during harvest but ultimately not having conscious experience of it.
RE: intended use of devices - βαθμιαίος - 02-23-2014
(02-22-2014, 11:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Please tell me why in the world would Ra say harvest is inhibited by the hitchhiking modality (being restricted)?
The hitchhiking quote is referring to the use of technology for travel. In the quote from session eight, they're saying that harvest would be helped, not inhibited, by the use of technology.
RE: intended use of devices - Sagittarius - 02-23-2014
Quote:8.6 Questioner: How did the United States learn of the technology to build these land [inaudible]?
Ra: I am Ra. There was a mind/body/spirit complex known to your people by the vibratory sound complex, Nikola. This entity departed the illusion and the papers containing the necessary understandings were taken by mind/body/spirit complexes serving your security of national divisional complex.
Thus your people became privy to the basic technology. In the case of those mind/body/spirit complexes which you call Russians, the technology was given from one of the Confederation in an attempt, approximately twenty-seven of your years ago, to share information and bring about peace among your peoples. The entities giving this information were in error, but we did many things at the end of this cycle in attempts to aid your harvest from which we learned the folly of certain types of aid. That is a contributing factor to our more cautious approach at this date, even as the need is power upon power greater, and your people’s call is greater and greater.
Interesting Ra talks in past tense there.
RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 07:40 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:of course tech can relieve survival concerns if used responsibly. But they say harvest of everyone else that has ever lived on the planet, regardless of opportunities and means used to polarize, is caused to be small due to some people's intended use of UFO devices. This implies that harvest-level polarization necessarily ultimately depends on the use of technological devices, for better or worse.(02-22-2014, 11:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Please tell me why in the world would Ra say harvest is inhibited by the hitchhiking modality (being restricted)?
The hitchhiking quote is referring to the use of technology for travel. In the quote from session eight, they're saying that harvest would be helped, not inhibited, by the use of technology.
RE: intended use of devices - βαθμιαίος - 02-23-2014
It's caused to be small not by the intended use but by the lack of use.
Polarization doesn't depend on technological means, but it can be aided by them.
RE: intended use of devices - zenmaster - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 08:34 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: It's caused to be small not by the intended use, but by the lack of use.
Polarization doesn't depend on technological means, but it can be aided by them.
I agree that polarization doesn't depend on tech, but Ra explicity says otherwise in that quote. Cause and effect is established.
So that means that scientists and engineers are ultimately indispensible for our opportunity to have conscious awareness and acceptance, and to be able to remove our distortions.
RE: intended use of devices - Sagittarius - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 08:34 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: It's caused to be small not by the intended use but by the lack of use.
Polarization doesn't depend on technological means, but it can be aided by them.
You just contradict yourself there. How can the harvest be caused to be small through lack of use of technology yet not depend on polarization ?
The intended use is everything how can it not cause and effect the product.
RE: intended use of devices - βαθμιαίος - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 08:46 AM)zenmaster Wrote: I agree that polarization doesn't depend on tech, but Ra explicity says otherwise in that quote. Cause and effect is established.
I don't read the quote that way.
(02-23-2014, 08:46 AM)Sagittarius Wrote: How can the harvest be caused to be small through lack of use of technology yet not depend on polarization ?
? That wasn't what I said.
RE: intended use of devices - Sagittarius - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 09:18 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:(02-23-2014, 08:46 AM)zenmaster Wrote: I agree that polarization doesn't depend on tech, but Ra explicity says otherwise in that quote. Cause and effect is established.
I don't read the quote that way.
(02-23-2014, 08:46 AM)Sagittarius Wrote: How can the harvest be caused to be small through lack of use of technology yet not depend on polarization ?
? That wasn't what I said.
What did you say ? Cause that's the way I read it.
RE: intended use of devices - βαθμιαίος - 02-23-2014
I said that polarization doesn't depend on technology, not that the harvest doesn't depend on polarization.