(08-08-2012, 08:38 AM)Siren Wrote: Now turn on the light bulb and there you have the Love, Infinite Energy (the bulb) and the ensuing Creation (the light: all the forms and shapes and patterns and delineations and objects that "stuff" the room).

(08-08-2012, 02:21 PM)ShinAr Wrote: First is that you also seem to confusing matter with its source.

Ra Wrote:Our understanding is that there is no other material except light.

Quote:The concept of light is instrumental in grasping this great leap of thought as this vibrational distortion [i.e. light] of infinity is the building block of that which is known as matter

Quote:The first distortion, free will, finds focus [i.e Love]. This is the second distortion known to you as Logos, the Creative Principle or Love. This intelligent energy [i.e Love] thus creates a distortion known as Light.

Quote:Questioner: I will make a statement that I have extracted from the physics of Dewey Larson which may or may not be close to what we are trying to explain. Larson says that all is motion [i.e Love] which we can take as vibration [i.e Love], and that vibration is pure vibration [i.e Love] and is not physical [i.e Light] in any way or in any form or density [i.e Light], and the first product of that vibration [i.e Love] is what we call the photon or particle of light. I am trying to make an analogy between this physical solution and the concept of love and light. Is this close to the concept of Love creating light?

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct.

Quote:Questioner: Then this vibration [i.e Love] which is, for lack of better understanding, pure motion [i.e Love]; it is pure love; it is nothing that is yet condensed, shall we say, to form any type of density of illusion [i.e light]. This Love then creates by this process of vibration a photon, as we call it, which is the basic particle of light. This photon [i.e light] then, by added vibrations and rotation, further condenses into particles of the densities we experience. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct

(08-08-2012, 06:07 PM)ShinAr Wrote: And before anything was even created what do you speculate existed fro motion to take place?

(08-08-2012, 08:38 AM)Siren Wrote: What I call "blackness" (for lack of a better term) is not the darknes most people seem to speak of. This blackness, or esoteric obscurity, is the quiescence of the void/plenum when neither Love nor light were yet.

Peregrinus Wrote:The above statement is incorrect. The Creator created Light from Self, Love, upon the Original Thought. This was the first dichotomy. The second dichotomy was light interpenetrating darkness. By distorting love/light/darkness, exploration of Self is gained.

Ra Wrote:Each step recapitulates intelligent infinity in its discovery of awareness.

(08-09-2012, 03:50 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: I agree we each perceive based upon the distortions which we use to interpret the energetic world, which distorts any possible understanding of Creator. The Creator is without boundaries, rules, beginning, end...

Coming to know the self is not a destination, but a path of ever increasing consciousness. You are Creator just as I am Creator, as is everything but the void.

Instead though, of speculating, perhaps you might consider seeking truth inwardly. All is revealed to s/he who seeks, even those things never imagined.

(08-09-2012, 04:26 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: Anyone who visits his own awareness with an honesty willingness to accept what he finds will discover the inseparable nature of subject and object which, despite their unity, still remain distinct as the two halves of awareness, each of which contains the whole. The paradox of awareness comes (logically) before both Love and Light....

(08-09-2012, 06:14 PM)godwide_void Wrote: With this I am addressing your's and Siren's supposed belief that the Creator is Itself comprised of pure light, although please correct me if I am wrong in pinpointing that as your view.

Quote:Light may emanate from the Creator, and it may be the base material which forges all of Its manifestations, but the very essence of its form is pure darkness. Before a room is equipped with the capability of electricity and lightbulbs are installed, what is there?

(08-09-2012, 06:14 PM)godwide_void Wrote: Shin'Ar, as extraordinarily precise and perceptive all of your and Siren's combined insights are, I must say that Peregrinus' description of perceiving the Creator as being a gargantuan mass of black energy, tiny galaxies embedded as shimmering jewels of light in it, utterly alone in darkness and solitude, is extremely resonant with me/my experience and I urge you to consider it. With this I am addressing your's and Siren's supposed belief that the Creator is Itself comprised of pure light, although please correct me if I am wrong in pinpointing that as your view. Light may emanate from the Creator, and it may be the base material which forges all of Its manifestations, but the very essence of its form is pure darkness. Before a room is equipped with the capability of electricity and lightbulbs are installed, what is there?

Without the blackness of the void, light would have nothing to illuminate. Both are complimentary, yet what naturally exists in such a way that it appears as being the precedent factor, is darkness. If there were no galaxies and any type of creation were taken out of the equation, the Creator would be a perpetually expanding ocean of utter blackness (I saw a distinct face with eyes, yet I do not recall if those eyes were also galaxies or distinct eyes of their own). The only light that forms the Creator are the lights of Its creations within and protruding from its transparent, formless abysmal being. It is the very darkness which it is "alone" in, yet surrounded inwardly by its many offspring.

The One Consciousness, the One Infinite Creator/Creation, and the infinite canvas in which it can act out its process of being through every individual portion of aware consciousness it spawns within Itself as the core attribute that defines its very being, are both interchangeable and distinct. The infinite void-like canvas, the blackboard which Siren described, is intelligent infinity or more accurately the template or coding that empowers the Creator. The void, blackness or sentient component that fills up that blackboard is the One Infinite Creator, who also functions as the painter of the canvas, painting new life with its formless brush, the paint it uses being that of light. It itself is not light, however, at least not upon the surface or in any visible sense. The unpotentiated source it draws upon to channel the light it uses, its blood, the intelligent energy, is not manifest unless the void directs and projects it as a manifestation on the fabric of intelligent infinity which is what sustains the All. By the way, Shin'Ar, when you refer to the Source, are you referring to the One Infinite Creator or the mystery that It sprung from? While the One Infinite Creator is the Source we directly sprang from, what gave birth to It is the mysterious factor which codes it and devised the blueprint for it, the Infinite which we all (the supreme Creator included) seeks to grasp.

Edit: I had also forgot to address the mention of Ra's claiming of true simultaneity by Patrick and Siren and clarify my stating of perceiving brief but true linearity from my experience. From this density's influence on the perspective of my awareness of that process I paradoxically observed a "progression" from one mode of infinite simultaneity (chaotic, undirected infinity) to another form of infinite simultaneity (ordered infinity as the eternally still yet constantly expansive Creator with a set being in motion through becoming). Within this form of the Creator, it experiences all events as happening in one tranquil and eternal moment, yet within, to lower awareness, somehow there is the perception of very, very long and endless stretch of linear time with a past, a present, a future, minutes, hours, days, years, yet all this "time" is contained within a moment of utter timelessness.

This vantage point of transcending time by being all-time as no-time, this offers insight on how synchronicities occur, how every instance in life, no matter how far apart, appear connected. The Creator is the most masterful improviser there is. How else can it cause such seemingly incoherent and disconnected actions by trillions upon trillions of entities within it doing their own thing to come together in one coherent movement? Simultaneity is such that linearity isn't a negated concept, and both may exist alongside and within one another, yet the former is the metaprocess. However, it can also be considered that there may have been metalinearity to lead the state of Infinity from passively unaware to actively intelligent, yet from the perspective of Infinity this division of events of its process occurs within the very same unending moment, and while the moment does not change, mass change can occur within that moment, just as an eternal being contains numerous beings experiencing change in many moments within the only moment of being which it knows.

(08-09-2012, 08:31 PM)Siren Wrote: I would close my eyes and/or go into a dark room and this blackness would be filled with all sorts of images and forms of dancing light.

(08-09-2012, 11:12 AM)ShinAr Wrote: First of All Siren,

I want to thank you deeply for challenging these thoughts along with me, with such depth and congruity. It is via such speculation and discussion that deep learning and further understanding can be had. I am always seeking to find thoughts that challenge my own which may enhance my path into further understanding.

Quote:Becoming locked into a belief system as though it is no longer speculation, or for the purpose of wanting to avoid being wrong about a matter is the end of learning and I have sworn to be ever cautious of that trap.

Quote:To this I acknowledge that I see Light as being two aspects of the One, just as darkness and light are two aspects of the One.

Quote:It seems that we only really differ in that you acknowledge Intelligent Energy as being love, which creates light/matter.

Whereas I acknowledge Light as the Source/Infinity from which further light spawns and becomes creation. And so it is this aspect of your definition of Love which becomes the variable that differentiates our thought processes.

Quote:All thought is vibration/light/sound/ becoming material as it condenses. We agree on this. It is the Source, the aspect of love, and the concept of the void from which it spawns where our semantics part ways.

Quote:Okay let us agree that when we speak of distortion we are speaking of the first vibration or motion or energy of the Source. As such we cannot suggest that the Source is the first distortion, as it is the Source of the first distortion.

Quote:Here Ra says that the first distortion is basically the ‘will’ to love, and that ‘love’ itself is the second distortion. Love being intelligent energy creates ‘Light’, which by succession will be the third distortion.

Quote:I am saying that Infinity is Light, which begets Intelligent Energy, which is the force of extending The Light, via the Process of Being/Intelligent Energy, which creates vibration/light/matter, which is simply the extension of The One/Light/Source/Infinity into existence as an energy/thought/vibration.

Quote:In your attempt to break down the process of being into various distortions, you have inadvertently separated that which is One

Quote:Here seems to be the glitch, in that the other quotes suggest that love and intelligent energy, being the first distortion, are one and the same, from which comes matter/light.

Quote:In your order of succession the void is some sort of infinite nothingness/blackness where some Free Will of intelligent nature spawned and by love created all to follow.

Quote:In my order of succession the void is Infinite Light, The Source from which all spawned.

Quote:We are made in the image of God. We are One with God. But we are NOT God, rather we are the Process of God ‘being’.

(08-09-2012, 08:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Again, as with Godwide, I point out that you say that this blackness is filled with dancing light. he saw two eyes or galaxies. you see images and dancing light.

And yet you both claim that it is utter blackness.

Can you elaborate?

Quote:You say that while in the void there was no light, just blackness, and then you say that the only light you could see seemed to be what could have been its two eyes, and then you go on to say that you are not sure if THOSE were galaxies or not.
That is not perpetual blackness, is it.
Next you speak of a canvas of blackness on which creation is painted. I realize that you are speaking metaphorically but Is a canvas to be painted on not a ‘thing’. Is that something left over from another creation? If nothing exists besides blackness, then what is this canvas? What is this void? And how can something prior to anything even being created be perpetually expanding?

Quote:My thinking takes this into consideration and asks that we be certain that we are going all the way back as we speculate about this. How do you know that you are in a place ‘prior to’ creation in your experience, and not in the creation in its earliest stages?

Quote:When you say this,
“The unpotentiated source it draws upon to channel the light it uses, its blood, the intelligent energy, is not manifest unless (the void directs and projects it) as a manifestation on the fabric of intelligent infinity which is what sustains the All.”

It almost sounds as though you are now saying that the void is creating.

Quote:Which leads to my answer to this question from you,

“By the way, Shin'Ar, when you refer to the Source, are you referring to the One Infinite Creator, or the mystery that It sprung from?”

What I am supposing is that The Source and the void are One and the same.
What spawns is the result of duality as ‘being proceeds from awareness’
.
In this way of thinking there is no separation of light, love, will or any other aspect of creation or void.
Everything is simply an extension and expansion of The One. What is being debated here is the issue of what light is, and whether or not the void is ‘void’ of anything that was connected to the Source.
I think not. I do not even like to refer to it as the void. I think of it as Infinite Light. I think All is One. And I suggest that in the beginning there was Light. Infinite Light.

Quote:Now that does not mean that it was brightness which would illuminate blackness. That means that within the blackness there was also light, which you yourself say that you saw as two eyes, and in my mind, I choose to call the plenum a blend of the two, light and darkness, rather than darkness alone, because Light is how the ancients refer to it in many religious cultures.

Think of this, why would light spawn from that which was absolutely void of light? What we are asking here is the same question as ‘where did matter come from when there was no matter at all?
My premise is that what we have now as creation is nothing more than the extension of what already existed infinitely, light. The only thing added to this is awareness/consciousness which resulted in duality which caused the energy for that light to move and alter.

Quote:With regard to simultaneity I can only repeat what I have always stated, that if there is simultaneity than Infinity is not infinite. Simultaneity automatically suggest that all is finished and finalized in such a way that the beginning and end are available in some manner of experiencing time as a finished concept of experience.
If there is a completed system of events that can be experienced simultaneously, than that automatically denies the nature of Infinity and also the teachings of the Ancients which clearly declare that we exist within an infinite Mystery still unfolding, and our choices are not already manifest in some already experienced future.

(08-09-2012, 08:31 PM)Siren Wrote: This "blackness" is the infinite potential of Intelligent Infinity. The reason why there is light is because "I" am the THOUGHT/FOCUS of it. This is what Love does: it creates light from infinite potential.

(08-09-2012, 08:31 PM)Siren Wrote: I will have satisfied my own intelligent estimate of a method of knowing myself. And then, finally, I shall dissolve once more into the One and All, into Nothingness, into Infinity.

(08-09-2012, 06:14 PM)godwide_void Wrote: the Creator is the void; you may say that peering into outer space is taking a gander at its innards, and the only light emanate from the galaxies or rather collectively from every celestial sphere contained in all galaxies. The void is the canvas of blackness, and it is ever expanding, and as it creates new "empty space", more creations manifest to fill that space, the arena of these creations being their own galaxies.

(08-09-2012, 06:14 PM)godwide_void Wrote: I would actually suggest that I experienced the Creator as It 'currently' is, and am not placing any particular frame of time or estimating what phase I bore witness to. I do not believe that my experience breached the foetal stages of creation. I do know that I observed the One as it is at the moment which we are having this discussion, and I am content knowing that I have seen the original form of all forms of life, what observes through us all, and what precedes, sustains and follows all things.

(08-09-2012, 06:14 PM)godwide_void Wrote: I see where the confusion is present. You're taking void to mean "nil" or containing nothing, while I'm using void as I would abyss or as an infinite sea of blackness. The One is the void and the Source, yet I'd assumed that you also were using the term Source to imply the state of infinity before it directed itself into manifesting the Creator.

(08-09-2012, 06:14 PM)godwide_void Wrote: Light may have been the essence of infinity pre-creation, but I will reiterate that the One Infinite Creator is itself not a vast being of light. As I've tried to clear up above, the only sources of light which I observed were those of the galaxies which littered Its form, a form which is an abyss of immense proportions. Is what we consider outer space made of light? We can account for much, much more darkness comprising space than of light, which largely emanates from stars, planets, suns. Before those planetary bodies gave off light, they were formed in the void of outer space through natural processes. Remember, that we exist within the Creator at this very moment. We are Its cells. What we call outer space should be properly considered "inner space", the inner space of the Creator. It is the container of the cosmos. Before those planetary bodies gave off light, they were formed in the void of outer space through natural processes

(08-09-2012, 06:14 PM)godwide_void Wrote: Shin'Ar, your perception is such that it encompasses a much more intricate understanding of the fluidity and sublimity of being which surpasses the perspectives of this veiled illusion. You see all as one fluid wave and rather than accounting for each individual ripple as appearing and coalescing back into the ocean, prefer to understand that the beginning and ending of all ripples occurs in a sea which knows neither and experiences only progression.

(08-09-2012, 06:14 PM)godwide_void Wrote: Ultimate simultaneity doesn't entail that events are played out side by side, such as a marathon and the viewing of a movie by the same being in parallel lives are happening at once, although this is so. It more properly refers to the notion that every individual moment that occurs, even with our perception of linear time and a distinct passage of time linking one event to the next, exist within the eternal moment which the Creator experiences. For instance, I perceive myself typing out this response from you. From my awareness, this is a specific event which is happening at a "different time" than the dinner I had last night. I can choose to section off each experience as "dinner beginning, dinner ending" or "post beginning, post ending", although this would be silly. I do not divide up each experience, as it is the same awareness undergoing each experience, and each experience befalls one continuum of awareness. We are thrust into individual happenings with their own set and setting. Yet, if linear time is only an illusion, why do we experience events in a certain sequence? We do, and this is ephemeral truth for us, because we are currently experiencing lower awareness, where we directly experience ourselves as temporary forms of flesh, not grand beings of light.
From the awareness of the Creator, the birth and death of our specific current incarnations has happened already. The specific moments which any of us graduated school, began a career, and signed up to the Bring4th.org forums, are all experiences which the Creator is experiencing simultaneously. It is experiencing them simultaneously because while it may have been "different people" having these experiences at "different times", It is every person undergoing every experience, and all time is experienced by It. It is not bound by any such restraints. Past, present, and future, are not concepts which have any bearing on Its complete awareness. All linearity is within it, occurring simultaneously, and the trillions upon trillions of different experiences happening every moment in the Creation are known to It with immediacy and ease.

(08-10-2012, 10:23 AM)ShinAr Wrote: I believe this statement has cleared up the glitch between our thought processes. What you are saying is that where you /god exists, that very existence/focus/love simultaneously creates light, where otherwise there would be darkness, or absence of light. You are saying that because you are there, there is light. If you were not there then there would be an absence of light.

Quote:Does this not imply then that you are light, that your very presence is light. Would it be wrong for me to say that you/god are light.

Quote:So the question remains to define the state of existence so we can determine the point of origin of light.

Quote:And that seems to lie within this aspect of ‘awareness versus unawareness’ and exactly when intelligence begins.

Quote:Here you seem to define The One, and Infinity, as ‘nothingness’. Hence, our differences, and the reason for what I believe to be our confusion.

Quote:So I have to assume that you are speaking of this ‘background’ when you say void, and that only leads me to further ask, what is this background made of ‘if it is capable of containing matter/light’.
To that Siren will answer ‘potential’.

Quote:Also I note that you both describe this nothingness as ever expanding. How does nothing expand? How does nothing do anything at all if it’s virtually nothing at all.

Quote:And so once again we have to ask at what point does unawareness become intelligence/love/will from which flows the Light?

Quote:The paradox remains in that in both estimations we fall victim to how there can be anything, whether Source or void, where nothing was yet created.

Quote:The void would be that which existed prior to awareness, the stillness and emptiness of any presence or intelligence. That would be the true plenum.

(08-10-2012, 12:00 PM)Siren Wrote: What I am saying is that the FOCUSING/THOUGHT (LOVE) of the INTELLIGENCE of INFINITY is what creates LIGHT. Prior to INTELLIGENCE being FOCUSED (THOUGHT), INTELLIGENT INFINITY was in a phase of infinite potential "awaiting" its potentiation, if you will. The Thought, or intelligent ENERGY, was not yet.

If you will, you may liken the potential of Intelligent Infinity as "latent" or "dormant" energy (where the potential energy is not yet active).

This energy is INTELLIGENT because Infinity is INTELLIGENT. And Love, in turn, taps/draws from its own infinite reservoir of infinite potential to create a Creation.

(08-10-2012, 12:00 PM)Siren Wrote: I understand Intelligent Infinity as Oneness, Nothingness, void and plenum; the One Infinite Creator. This must be understood, however, as the triad of Infinite Potential, Love and light.

I seem to understand THE Mystery as "preceding" INTELLIGENT Infinity.

(08-09-2012, 08:31 PM)Siren Wrote: Intelligent Infinity does not experience itself, does not know itself, from "outside" the Creation, but through a process of experience—which is only possible through the vehicular medium that is the Creation. Intelligent Infinity is an unfathomable mystery. And the IDEA to experience itself is the THOUGHT (Logos) that forms the Creation through which this infinity may be, well, experienced.

(08-09-2012, 04:47 PM)ShinAr Wrote: I like what you have written here Peregrinus. It reveals your character. However I would say that speculation itself is nothing more than the continuing thought of the Creator. Without speculation how does one seek their inner divinity?

Speculation is the pure motion of thought which is the Intelligent Energy of creation. Discovery and revelation is simply the treasure it has to offer to those who diligently speculate with open mind.