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RE: Addicted to Humanity? - Shin'Ar - 07-11-2012
(07-11-2012, 04:57 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote:(07-10-2012, 06:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: YES CHANGE IS HAPPENING AND WE WILL MOVE ON AS THAT CHANGE TAKES PLACE. yOU SAID YOU WILL MISS THE EARTH ACKNOWLEDGING THE MOVING ON FROM IT.Caps lock stuck?I skipped the parts where you were just reframing my position. I think it's clear what I meant.
(07-10-2012, 06:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: The fact that I suggest that our addictions to this world causes many to deliberately choose to separate themselves from the process of evolution and cease the development of their consciousness into Higher Being, does not in any way suggest that the things which were offered to us in this world have not been a wondrous learning experience to be appreciated and enjoyed.Are you sure that the "addictions" to this world stops people from evolving?
Us middle world/third density entities have very little perspective but enormous opinions....
Quote:But our Grand design is far more than as humans. You yourselves will attest to being the Creator. And yet as the Creator of an entire universe you are offended when one points out that the Earth is but one small step in the journey into Mystery, and one small footprint on the available universe.
Precisely... So if that is the case... How are we to judge that the man who polishes his mercedes on a sunday morning instead of going to church is not at the exact same spot in the grander scheme of things as the tibettan monk who achieves enlightenment at the exact same moment?
The only difference is our ego putting value in the one and not putting value in the other.
The creator created all things as equal. The creator is expressing himself with as much consciousness in the monk achieving enlightenment as he is expressing himself in the man who is polishing his biggest joy in life, his mercedes.
But... The monks enlightenment is proof of his advanced beingness is it not? Ask him to polish your car, if it does not shine without any spots afterwards he's only good at one specific aspect in life. Whether he's better requires an ego to judge. If you let go of the ego you'll only be able to experience both with boundless compassion.
the difference is in the Divine Design. There is a way to ascend into Higher being which involves enlightenment and awareness of one's divinity.
That is not my rule. That is Divine Plan. I think you might be arguing with the wrong person if you want to challenge that Ali ,lol.
The facts are that since ancient times the human has been taught that ascending into Higher being is accomplished through becoming aware of and realizing one's divinity within. The activation and transcendence of one's sacred Fire within. The rising of the Kundalini from the lower to the higher whereby the human is transformed into light being. The result being a connection between Spirit and matter that had been disconnected.
And this ancient teaching is what we find here in this community, and throughout religions and cultures around the planet, from the greatest civilizations to the most primitive tribes. It is a teaching that comes to the human from places beyond our own physical experience.
RE: Addicted to Humanity? - Oldern - 07-11-2012
I think both of you are right, and that is the beauty of it. In the meantime, I am more and more confused in the past days.
I was in a vacation, and saw a stray dog, and while bringing water to it, I have watched 20+ 10-14 year old childrens (they were on school tours or something like that) treat that huge, 50kg+ dog peacefully, with love, fed him, never feared it. It was such a shocking difference than my mind was conditioned to feel according to the news that I realized that I still do not know anything about...well, anything.
One thing I know is that once I am able to do so, I would really, really wish to tap into MANY alternate Earth futures and just, as an Observer, see how things panned out. One where we were able to advance together as a society, one where we were not. One where we transformed our weaknesses, one where we did not.
(Edit: I missed making my point. My point is, if one needs to see this world in a positive light, it will find all the evidence to support that. Same goes for those that wishes to put a negative spin on it. Both is available in extremes as well.)
RE: Addicted to Humanity? - Ali Quadir - 07-11-2012
(07-11-2012, 08:04 AM)ShinAr Wrote: the difference is in the Divine Design. There is a way to ascend into Higher being which involves enlightenment and awareness of one's divinity.If you pick a fruit from the branch too soon it will be sour... If you pick it too late.. Well you can't pick it too late it will have fallen off on it's own... Fruits that are almost ready will begin to show change. But there's nothing the fruit or the farmer can do to in any way speed up the process. Spiritual growth is the same unfortunately.
There's many people who offer advice on spiritual growth. Everyone in 3d has an opinion. Religion among others clearly show that you can't force this in people by forcing behavioral patterns on them. Telling them what to believe how to act and what not to be attached to is ultimately pointless.
What to believe becomes dogma, how to act becomes empty ritual, and what not to be attached to becomes hatred. If it's not their time it's simply not going to happen.
(07-11-2012, 08:04 AM)ShinAr Wrote: That is not my rule. That is Divine Plan. I think you might be arguing with the wrong person if you want to challenge that Ali, lol.Haha
(No god you've got it all wrong, let uncle Ali explain it to you!)Though I'm not arguing with divine plan. I'm arguing with your understanding of it.
If God's plan is for everyone to become enlightened... Then why are we not all enlightened? I presume God is omnipotent and omnipresent. If he decides someone needs to be enlightened and aware of his divinity, that individual would bloody well be dragged kicking and screaming into his divinity. Life clearly demonstrates that we as a species need to be in different stages of evolution right now. And we are. Maybe that's the clue.
All things are exactly as the divine plan dictates them to be. Not one fruit falls from a tree without God having an intent with this. If some guy wants to polish his mercedes or play with his apple gadget and gets some kind of "religious" experience from that... Then I think that's exactly what's intended to be...
The one thing that struck me again and again in many spiritual experiences I have had is that everything is exactly as it should be. Even our own misunderstanding of the perfection is perfectly what is intended. By us... By our own higer self...
And then we go and decide against it... Morality of this kind is perfectly acceptable, good even, but we should not pretend that it's anything other than our brains and ego that makes these decisions. It's not a divine plan. If we decide that we end up as priests in religions dictating God what his will is.
If you think being addicted to life is wrong, then that's fine, the divine plan allows/wills you to believe this. But that does not mean the divine plan agrees with you
Oldern Wrote:One thing I know is that once I am able to do so, I would really, really wish to tap into MANY alternate Earth futures and just, as an Observer, see how things panned out. One where we were able to advance together as a society, one where we were not. One where we transformed our weaknesses, one where we did not.Don't wait.... You are tapped into this now! Imagination is not some virtual separated world. It is reality itself, the problem is what version of reality, and are the lessons learned there transferrable to this world?
We're taught from childhood that this realm of the imagination is useless and we should stay away from it. But it's not only the motor for all positive change in this world. It's also the gateway to different worlds. Through it we channel, perform magic and stay in touch with people beings and realities who are not in our current physical frame of reference.
Very little of the imagination is worthless, though it might not be applicable in every situation. Discernment is required.
RE: Addicted to Humanity? - Shin'Ar - 07-11-2012
(07-11-2012, 08:10 AM)Oldern Wrote: I think both of you are right, and that is the beauty of it. In the meantime, I am more and more confused in the past days.
I was in a vacation, and saw a stray dog, and while bringing water to it, I have watched 20+ 10-14 year old childrens (they were on school tours or something like that) treat that huge, 50kg+ dog peacefully, with love, fed him, never feared it. It was such a shocking difference than my mind was conditioned to feel according to the news that I realized that I still do not know anything about...well, anything.
One thing I know is that once I am able to do so, I would really, really wish to tap into MANY alternate Earth futures and just, as an Observer, see how things panned out. One where we were able to advance together as a society, one where we were not. One where we transformed our weaknesses, one where we did not.
(Edit: I missed making my point. My point is, if one needs to see this world in a positive light, it will find all the evidence to support that. Same goes for those that wishes to put a negative spin on it. Both is available in extremes as well.)
Although I like your premise and hopes, I am unable to accept this theory that there are alternate timelines and realities or that there is simultaneous experiencing of the tenses.
There are just far too many paradoxes involved to even consider such a theory. I am open to learning, but my learning to this point does not accept such speculation when it seems to only be for the purpose of making other speculations work.
(07-11-2012, 10:54 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote:(07-11-2012, 08:04 AM)ShinAr Wrote: the difference is in the Divine Design. There is a way to ascend into Higher being which involves enlightenment and awareness of one's divinity.If you pick a fruit from the branch too soon it will be sour... If you pick it too late.. Well you can't pick it too late it will have fallen off on it's own... Fruits that are almost ready will begin to show change. But there's nothing the fruit or the farmer can do to in any way speed up the process. Spiritual growth is the same unfortunately.
There's many people who offer advice on spiritual growth. Everyone in 3d has an opinion. Religion among others clearly show that you can't force this in people by forcing behavioral patterns on them. Telling them what to believe how to act and what not to be attached to is ultimately pointless.
What to believe becomes dogma, how to act becomes empty ritual, and what not to be attached to becomes hatred. If it's not their time it's simply not going to happen.
(07-11-2012, 08:04 AM)ShinAr Wrote: That is not my rule. That is Divine Plan. I think you might be arguing with the wrong person if you want to challenge that Ali, lol.Haha
Though I'm not arguing with divine plan. I'm arguing with your understanding of it.
If God's plan is for everyone to become enlightened... Then why are we not all enlightened? I presume God is omnipotent and omnipresent. If he decides someone needs to be enlightened and aware of his divinity, that individual would bloody well be dragged kicking and screaming into his divinity. Life clearly demonstrates that we as a species need to be in different stages of evolution right now. And we are. Maybe that's the clue.
All things are exactly as the divine plan dictates them to be. Not one fruit falls from a tree without God having an intent with this. If some guy wants to polish his mercedes or play with his apple gadget and gets some kind of "religious" experience from that... Then I think that's exactly what's intended to be...
The one thing that struck me again and again in many spiritual experiences I have had is that everything is exactly as it should be. Even our own misunderstanding of the perfection is perfectly what is intended. By us... By our own higer self...
And then we go and decide against it... Morality of this kind is perfectly acceptable, good even, but we should not pretend that it's anything other than our brains and ego that makes these decisions. It's not a divine plan. If we decide that we end up as priests in religions dictating God what his will is.
If you think being addicted to life is wrong, then that's fine, the divine plan allows/wills you to believe this. But that does not mean the divine plan agrees with you
Oldern Wrote:One thing I know is that once I am able to do so, I would really, really wish to tap into MANY alternate Earth futures and just, as an Observer, see how things panned out. One where we were able to advance together as a society, one where we were not. One where we transformed our weaknesses, one where we did not.Don't wait.... You are tapped into this now! Imagination is not some virtual separated world. It is reality itself, the problem is what version of reality, and are the lessons learned there transferrable to this world?
We're taught from childhood that this realm of the imagination is useless and we should stay away from it. But it's not only the motor for all positive change in this world. It's also the gateway to different worlds. Through it we channel, perform magic and stay in touch with people beings and realities who are not in our current physical frame of reference.
Very little of the imagination is worthless, though it might not be applicable in every situation. Discernment is required.
In my opinion you are dancing around the real point here.
I am not suggesting Divine Process to be fate or destiny, or that it is subject to our decisions and choices. I am not talking about religion and our interaction with such teaching.
I am pointing out, as have all the Masters, that the Creator has established a process of evolving through the experiences of It's thoughts/vibrations/fields of consciousness as they interact with creation and the Mystery.
And that process is not going to be altered by the whims of those who choose to ignore it for their own sakes. therefore this process is continuing, unfolding according to the experiences of those many fields of consciousness, becoming The All by virtue of their connection to the Source and the Creation that results.
As that process we are not forced to evolve at a rate expected of us because we are endowed with free will, and within that dynamic of evolving creation it's development is at the mercy of its creators.
For one to choose to retard the Process, or cause it to become inert and void of growth, evolution is affected. the purpose of the process is stalled by the free will of one who refuses to take part in the evolution of consciousness, for the sake of believing that the temporary identity they have fallen in love with will continue forever. And this delusion continues until they die, and then reincarnate as another identity that has no recall of their past delusion, and they must relive and try to learn this lesson all over again.
In short those here in this world now, that believe that they should not take part in the evolution of consciousness because they are addicted to the things of the flesh, really only impede the Divine process in this very short life span of their delusional identity. they only retard their own field, and the universe continues to evolve despite their beliefs. they die, and they must come to learn this truth in the next life., or the next, or the next.
But at some point they will come to realize their divine aspect of the Process of being, and will evolve, as they have already done so from what could have been their lower forms of consciousness already. These fields have already been caught up in the process, they have already climbed much of the mountain. the problem is that they have reached a plateau where they have become comfortable and find satisfaction with their present state of being, and they delude themselves into thinking that they cam remain there for all time.
That belief will die with that temporary delusion. And the Divine Process of being will continue for the field of consciousness which is their true identity.
The real question is, " When an Ancient comes to you and exposes this to you, will you consider the reality of it, or continue to ignore it for the sake of your temporary pleasures and addictions?
It is not wrong to do so. It is your choice to do so. But the danger is that there are many in this world that benefit from that ignorance and use it to support their own greed and personal gain. And you become a willing victim to that system of deceit.
How many times you want to be victimized is your choice, as is also the choice to become an active participant in this system of darkness as many do.
and I assure you they applaud your efforts to deny them and the evolution of the One Consciousness, the Divine Process of Being.
This is the danger we warn of. the cycle of darkness.
It all has to do with Free will. And the fact that the Creator does not impose It's will upon It's thoughts. It's thoughts are free to evolve according to their own experiences. In this way It, the Source freely experiences It's creation as well.
This is The Divine Process taking place, as designed.
the Design is that we evolve at our own rate, choose as we please, learn from our experiences, and evolve in the process.
Remaining trapped in our delusions of space/time and temporary identities is simply just one of those things that we must learn to escape, so that our natural evolution may continue, at whatever rate it develops.
Being trapped is not wrong. Enjoying the pleasures of the entrapment is not wrong. Wanting to stay in the trap is not wrong, even when someone comes along and offers you information that can free you. All of this is simply being human.
What is wrong is that there is a Dark Force that would like to have you stay in that trap as long as possible because it feeds off of your lack of Process of Being.
It is not wrong for one to stand in the water and be consumed by leeches, if that is what they choose to do. but it is wrong for a predator to continue placing more and more leeches in the water.
This is what we call you to escape from. Not our beautiful Mother Earth, not our wonderful humanity, not even our addictions. What we call you to escape from is that darkness which feeds on your ignorance and your choice to retard your evolution.
RE: Addicted to Humanity? - Unbound - 07-11-2012
We seek within.