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RE: Why Return to Earth? - zenmaster - 07-06-2012
(06-02-2012, 02:25 PM)TheEternal Wrote: This is a fairly simple thread, but I thought it would garner some interesting answers.You do understand that the mind that the 'human form' engenders trumps the 'form'? The questions and associated catalyst is the goldmine. Not sure why you would reduce it to form, which is obviously ad hoc with respect to 2D needs. The 'choice' is related to a 3d mind which is free to decide.
So, often here we have discussed the idea of being "Wanderers", and also the idea that almost everybody in some way or another is a vast being of consciousness.
That being said, and understanding that Choice is the axis upon which the creation turns, why, oh why, have we chosen to take on a human form? What is it in Humanness that attracts spirits to want to take on a human form, even to the extent that they completely identify with the human form?
(06-03-2012, 06:45 PM)52midnight Wrote: Many of the problems in today's world are deliberately created by wealthy, powerful people whose minds inhabit that dark prison even as they walk about in the sunlight, and who need external distractions to keep them from facing what is within them.Complete and utter BS. It's impossible to create problems that don't already exist in potential. The other is facing the same issues, it's only that we pick those to solve the problems for us and then conveniently demonize their efforts. Gotta love the righteousness.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Sagittarius - 07-06-2012
(06-02-2012, 02:25 PM)TheEternal Wrote: This is a fairly simple thread, but I thought it would garner some interesting answers.
So, often here we have discussed the idea of being "Wanderers", and also the idea that almost everybody in some way or another is a vast being of consciousness.
That being said, and understanding that Choice is the axis upon which the creation turns, why, oh why, have we chosen to take on a human form? What is it in Humanness that attracts spirits to want to take on a human form, even to the extent that they completely identify with the human form?
I raise this question because I see a lot of people who seem to hate being human. They have contempt for their bodies, they see being human as being parallel with suffering, they fill their head with every thought they can that they will not have to experience this human form much longer. Yet, if we do that as humans, is that not what traps us within the limited illusion?
Countless lives we go through, this same suffering, and wallowing in the suffering, in questioning the suffering. We spend life after life identifying with the aspects of the human which is suffering, which is the body, which is the fear of death. Why then, when we realize that we are more than our bodies, that there is more than suffering, do we continue to identify only the suffering with being human? If we, as humans, realize more than suffering, than does that not then bring more than suffering in to the human realm of experience? So long as we view the human condition as being one of suffering, that is what it shall be, and the human condition, which is to become a God-like conscious being, shall go unfulfilled due to the lingering condition of the illusion of frailty.
If we came here to "remember", why might we do that? I might just take a gander that when we remember, we really show that the Creator is in all things, and the Creator knows That Which It Is with a greater certainty.
Because we are here to learn that, as I have found out in the past few days. Also because we can not control it. By trying to control it we create a control/no control duality. Because we are guiding ourselves and we know exactly how to teach the lessons needed to be taught/learned. And we wouldn't be here if we didn't have something pulling us here, whether that be a grudge or a service.
Perhaps we are learning the greater meaning of service, perhaps we are learning that diving head first into places like this will not go smoothly. Perhaps we are here to learn lucifers type of unconditional love, experiencing the Lucifer way to Christhood.
I guess we are all starting to find out, the awakening is fully under way. I know I didn't understand the whole nature of duality until just a few days ago, hell I'am learning more about myself every hour every second every thought. We are the evil, we killed our brothers and murdered our sisters and now it is time to accept that and let it go.
I feel like something has entered or opened up to me, I don't feel alone anymore and every fall is dividing me. The journey will continue and the next act will play out as we planned.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - berlingravell - 07-07-2012
I know for a long time now I sometimes examine my feet and hands. I find them starnge looking. I sometimes think if I was not human would they be more strange looking to me? They function well for what we have in our environment and for how we live, yet indigenous people use their feet like hands when they climb trees or walk over rocks. Their feet are harder and can take standing on pointed rocks that would harm most of us and hurt. Why do we wear shoes, what are there pupose? Then I realize there purpose is purely for looks. We are tought from early ages to wear shoes or you will get sick or step on glass or get hurt. We are conditioned to live in this environment and our minds are hampered from growth as we come through our early years of life. This conformed government on school and regulating what we teach, eat, and drink and how we live is taking away from our true wholeness and oneness with eachother. It was when I really started finding my body parts to be strange that I realized there was something more out there. I was raised in an LDS family yet ran from it because being around people made me uncomfortable. I could feel the negative energies from people and did not like it at all. We should love the bodies we are in, no matter how uncomfortable we may feel. It too is part of the entire puzzle that eventually makes us wake up. I believe this year is the most energetic year I have seen in my 35 years of life here on planet Earth. I am a wonderer, maybe I could be an Elohim soul that chose to take on this human experience to learn more and transfer information back to better help us as we evolve into the next dimension of being. Our ONENESS, the love light energy we all possess. We can ? the questions that are not proven for us in the real humanistic way, yet the possibilities are endless as one thing will always remain. Love! Ps: My feet are still weird looking as to are my hands but at the same time I look at the female and male bodies and now they are beautiful to me.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Cyan - 07-07-2012
(06-02-2012, 03:46 PM)Wander Wrote: This is a very good question. I also find it strange. Hating the experience could be indicating that you've been fooled by the illusion. Although when entering the human experience, empathy is included, and a great deal of it. Seeing that the majority of humanity is led by very bad and destructive means, it is no surprise that the true value of this experience has yet to be discovered.
The power lies in light manyness, where the human very early is met with compassion, wisdom and love from its society. Now in our current reality, this simply is not the case. We are born with the potential to go light speed, but just after birth our machines are clogged with the wrong type of oil and our cogs splintered from debris.
While we are having a human experience, it is one of minimal global light. So being empathic creatures, we are constantly met by this clash between possibility and reality. In reality, billions of fields exchange negativity and sooner or later it enters your own field. So the possibilities start to look like distant dreams -and this is where it is important never to buy into the negativity, the maya.
But I think things are changing at an ever increasing rate. As more people wake up to find the darkness, so can they find light. Imagine how fast the flow of information has become within the global mind, with internet and all.
What was once a whisper has become a voice, growing in strength as we speak.
Part of my point would be that this is not the pinnacle of human experience, rather the gutter. But if you can find the beauty in the gutter, surely the path back to infinite unity is assured. Listen, can you hear it singing? Can you imagine its beauty? The road may be tough, but everyday mountains are moved at ever greater pace.
This may be tough to explain and understand but i'll try.
The way i see it is like this.
There are two possible states that our "world" may be in, one of belief that it is perfect and one is a belief that it is inperfect.
And in both forms of beliefs the creature makes roughly the same choices based on its immediate and non immediate needs.
Occasionally the belief that the world is inperfect combined with the needs strong enough to build a wide enough arch charge through the field of possibilities combined in the persons desires so that what is perceived as the person in actuality is the higher s manifesting. But the denotion of "higher" is how far from the source of all is one is your charge, the world you portray, able to maintain its cohesion before it collapses.
For people like us, our existence is the following phenomena:
A point of primal desire (earliest possible life line desires) and a primal ending (completion of all life line desires)
Our life line may be trillions of years old, or it may have no time. We dont know, because we are living as 3d objects and our vision is clouded by maya (uncertainty, we are in the "wave" mode)
So. If your primal desire is your memory of going whoof when your master gives you food, your primal desire is within your timeline (no abstract reasoning means no ability to perceive world before or without self as tangible). That would make you a 2d object
But if you can place your awareness outside of yourself and observe the self as not only a piece of the timeline but by the virtue of being aware of that, also separate of the timeline.
That ability to be separated, disembodied if you will, of the body is the hallmark of a 4th D entity.
You might say that the first stray thought in your head is your first 4th D manifestation.
It sets you into the astral, the world of the created matter not only of the matter but seeming to contain a spirit of its own, within the illusion itself, the spirit being the belief in the other self and its needs and its requirement to be served. Belief in the existence of something besides the self. That is the key to the belief that this is heaven. The higher you ascend the more you realise how completely everything serves you.
That way if this is heaven, to go within is to ascend, and to ascend is to approach god. If that is true and at the speed of light time stops, what we are is light spinning slower by intent. Because when intent is simply removed, the truth of all being one returns as we ascend.
Automatic heaven for everyone automatically upon removal of intent to be incarnated in that timeline position (screw you guys, i'm going home! *cartman*).
If this is hell, the best way is to seek removal of all external sources of inpulse as automatically harmful and go within to create a worldview capable of filtering through the external with sufficient clarity and speed to avoid feeling pain and then seek to change the external quickly as possible to a state in which as little as possible defences are needed.
Both imply the same choice, to look within is the answer. So, all is one.
In closing to why return to Earth, because there is no where else quite as good as here for those grown here. Its, Our Earth
I dont know what its all about but felt like i wanted to write that
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Unbound - 07-10-2012
We seek within.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - AnthroHeart - 07-10-2012
Getting to the point of no identity must be something incredible, as it goes beyond personality, ego. It would seem like it is the ultimate goal, the nirvana of Buddhism. But can one interact with society and make a living in this no-identity state?
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Shin'Ar - 07-10-2012
The Divine Process of Being, established by the Source of the All, includes many aspects of existing.
All are vibration thoughts spawning from the One Source.
This alone is our true identity, and will only ever be One Identity. we are the process of the Source thinking, which become vibrations expanding out into Mystery, and as such our fields become what the Source designed them to be. Fields of consciousness which mimic the Creator and evolve as they experience the process unfolding, as the creative aspect of that unfolding Process.
We are the Divine process of Being. Vibration.
At some point we may have been lower forms that had no identity or awareness. It is also possible that our field has never experienced a lower form at all and has always been a higher form able to experience any form it wished.
Regardless, individual identity only develops in the case where a field of consciousness, vibration, takes on an awareness of being, and realizes its reality as a creature of intelligence and rationale. It is within that ability to rationalize that we accept our being as individually unique based upon our own unique experiences. And it is in the interactions with others similar to that likeness that causes us to adopt identities, so that we can distinguish our own unique experience from these others that we are observing, and to be able to associate our identity with them.
Imprinting, as it is known in the scientific community.
As fields of consciousness vibrating from the Source into creation, in some forms we will adopt these identities and social behaviors for the sake of interaction and acknowledgement. In other forms and experiences as these fields there may be no need for identity at all.
It is not a fault to experience such identity when we take form as human. it is the nature of the Divine Process. While in this form we experience and learn and evolve based upon what we learn. The amount of time that takes will vary tremendously.
But the fact never changes that whether we take a form to which we identify with, or whether we are in a form that requires no identity, we always remain that field of consciousness vibrating into the unknown Mystery as the Process of Being evolving into the Mystery of future possibilities.
Those fields of consciousness which choose to remain as that temporary identity can only do so until the day of death. that identity that they believed they were going to keep forever disappears with the death of that form, and the true identity of that field of consciousness vibrates on into another experience. Those fields of consciousness which come to realize the temporary reality of this identity, as they become aware of their divine stature as a thought of the Source, realizing their part as the Divine Process of The Source Being, reach a state of awareness that enables them to evolve into higher states of being. A state that will elude those who either deliberately refuse to come to this awareness or that have not yet evolved into that state of awareness, will continue to reincarnate and attempt to learn this truth in the next life and identity as some other human. Unless of course that particular field was already higly evolved and just experiencing that human form out of will and intention. In that case it would just move on or reincarnate again.
As long as true identity as fields of consciousness escapes one's understanding, the only identity they will ever know is one of temporary delusion awaiting abandonment. Because until they abandon that temporary reincarnating into identity after identity, each one there to learn this one more time again, they will continue to be a different identity each time trying to know itself through delusion.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Unbound - 07-10-2012
We seek within.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - unir 1 - 07-11-2012
Sorry for getting off topic here but, in having identity, would one eventually run into the concept of no identity? And in short, there is no identity/ we have no true identity?
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Shin'Ar - 07-11-2012
(07-10-2012, 11:23 PM)TheEternal Wrote: I have only one disagreement with what you have said, and that is that I do not believe identities are particular to incarnations, but rather incarnations continue as a function of separated identities until the consciousness has unified itself with the Cosmic Awareness that is the presence, and then, both non-identity and identity function in symbiosis. This is the process of the creation of the Self, of Selves, by Selves, for Selves, for the Self, for fun and love!
The act of identification is a sense, a mixture of two fields. There is no motion without identity, but there is a natural process in which identity becomes a frictive force between instances of non-identity. That is, when the being is truly freed from the limited perception, there is not the freedom from the cycle of life and death in the way of presence and existence, but rather that the configurations of one's consciousness allows for the integration with nature and thus for the allowance of natural multi-dimensional existence to arise as deeper unity is seen through all dimensions.
There is nothing wrong with identity, but it is a tool with many uses, and as such, being one of the most powerful facets of consciousness which is perceivable in experience, it must be regarded as sacred in a way that without identity the lack of identity would remain unfulfilled and only in potential, with no wonders ever being made kinetic.
I am not sure about everything that you have said but it seems that what you are pointing to is what would become the difference between the temporary identity of one human incarnation and the permanent identity of the actual field of consciousness that is evolving throughout many different forms and identities. In that you are saying that each field of consciousness has an identity separate from the one's it adopts within an incarnation?
Is this correct?
RE: Why Return to Earth? - kdsii - 07-11-2012
This is correct.
Our true identity is The All That Is.
The identity comes from not seeing the self and the All That Is as one.
The irony here is, the more aware a being/social memory complex becomes, the less of a separate-identity it tends to hold.
A 7th density entity/SMC does not see the self as separate, and thus has no identity. Higher 6th follows this as well.
The beginning of 4th starts with seeing others as the self, seeing the Creator in others and in all things.
Ra: I am Ra. There is past, present, and future in third density. In an overview such as an entity may have, removed from the space/time continuum, it may be seen that in the cycle of completion there exists only the present. We, ourselves, seek to learn this understanding. At the seventh level or dimension, we shall, if our humble efforts are sufficient, become one with all, thus having no memory, no identity, no past or future, but existing in the all.
We are the Creator.
(07-11-2012, 01:50 AM)unir 1 Wrote: Sorry for getting off topic here but, in having identity, would one eventually run into the concept of no identity? And in short, there is no identity/ we have no true identity?
Your 'identity' as you percieve it now is also known as your ego.
That's why I spend so little time with things concerning the ego, and have shifted most of my learning time to that which serves my greater self, which is of course more aware of its connection to the All That Is.
From what I understand about adhering and non-adhering karma (what will make you repeat a lesson and what won't), the only way to break the samsaric/karmic cycle is to accept the ego, love it, and help to quiet it down, like a toddler. Then you can simply be, and act out of pure, selfless love.
A negatively oriented entity will, however, use that which comes from ego to control its surroundings (think Hidden Hand)
(07-11-2012, 07:54 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-10-2012, 11:23 PM)TheEternal Wrote: I have only one disagreement with what you have said, and that is that I do not believe identities are particular to incarnations, but rather incarnations continue as a function of separated identities until the consciousness has unified itself with the Cosmic Awareness that is the presence, and then, both non-identity and identity function in symbiosis. This is the process of the creation of the Self, of Selves, by Selves, for Selves, for the Self, for fun and love!
The act of identification is a sense, a mixture of two fields. There is no motion without identity, but there is a natural process in which identity becomes a frictive force between instances of non-identity. That is, when the being is truly freed from the limited perception, there is not the freedom from the cycle of life and death in the way of presence and existence, but rather that the configurations of one's consciousness allows for the integration with nature and thus for the allowance of natural multi-dimensional existence to arise as deeper unity is seen through all dimensions.
There is nothing wrong with identity, but it is a tool with many uses, and as such, being one of the most powerful facets of consciousness which is perceivable in experience, it must be regarded as sacred in a way that without identity the lack of identity would remain unfulfilled and only in potential, with no wonders ever being made kinetic.
I am not sure about everything that you have said but it seems that what you are pointing to is what would become the difference between the temporary identity of one human incarnation and the permanent identity of the actual field of consciousness that is evolving throughout many different forms and identities. In that you are saying that each field of consciousness has an identity separate from the one's it adopts within an incarnation?
Is this correct?
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Shin'Ar - 07-11-2012
(07-11-2012, 09:44 AM)kdsii Wrote: This is correct.
actually my question was addressed to azrael. I don't know if you think my question was in response to something that you had said or not. So I am uncertain of the correlation.
If per chance you are simply agreeing with what was said between AZ and I, then we shall both have to wait for his actual reply to see if he confirms how I have interpreted his words.
I have other questions to ask you with regard to this discussion but it seems that you became 'reluctant' in your earlier response so I am unsure of your desire to continue our topic.
It is difficult to read emotion and sarcasm in these forums. One must be very clear with such things so they are not misinterpreted. try to be more specific and please use your quotes from the post you are responding to in the beginning of your post so we can tell what you are responding to from your first remark. This will be extremely helpful for those of us who are easily confused, even if I am the only moron in here, lol.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - kdsii - 07-11-2012
True, it can be hard to read when I'm just poking at you.
But a message between two members exclusively is a PM, or 'personal message', wouldn't you agree?
I don't recall becoming reluctant, just disagreeing with the nature of the higer self, remember? It was also a trivial topic anyway, not deserving of ruffled feathers.
And of course when I say <--BOOM to a quote that backs my previous statement, I'm not alpha-male-ing you, just teasing with 'I win'.
Typically when you ask a question with a definite answer in an open forum, you can expect an open variety of responses.
Lighten up!
(07-11-2012, 10:47 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-11-2012, 09:44 AM)kdsii Wrote: This is correct.
actually my question was addressed to azrael. I don't know if you think my question was in response to something that you had said or not. So I am uncertain of the correlation.
If per chance you are simply agreeing with what was said between AZ and I, then we shall both have to wait for his actual reply to see if he confirms how I have interpreted his words.
I have other questions to ask you with regard to this discussion but it seems that you became 'reluctant' in your earlier response so I am unsure of your desire to continue our topic.
It is difficult to read emotion and sarcasm in these forums. One must be very clear with such things so they are not misinterpreted. try to be more specific and please use your quotes from the post you are responding to in the beginning of your post so we can tell what you are responding to from your first remark. This will be extremely helpful for those of us who are easily confused, even if I am the only moron in here, lol.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Shin'Ar - 07-11-2012
(07-11-2012, 10:54 AM)kdsii Wrote: True, it can be hard to read when I'm just poking at you.
But a message between two members exclusively is a PM, or 'personal message', wouldn't you agree?
I don't recall becoming reluctant, just disagreeing with the nature of the higer self, remember? It was also a trivial topic anyway, not deserving of ruffled feathers.
And of course when I say <--BOOM to a quote that backs my previous statement, I'm not alpha-male-ing you, just teasing with 'I win'.
Typically when you ask a question with a definite answer in an open forum, you can expect an open variety of responses.
Lighten up!
(07-11-2012, 10:47 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-11-2012, 09:44 AM)kdsii Wrote: This is correct.
actually my question was addressed to azrael. I don't know if you think my question was in response to something that you had said or not. So I am uncertain of the correlation.
If per chance you are simply agreeing with what was said between AZ and I, then we shall both have to wait for his actual reply to see if he confirms how I have interpreted his words.
I have other questions to ask you with regard to this discussion but it seems that you became 'reluctant' in your earlier response so I am unsure of your desire to continue our topic.
It is difficult to read emotion and sarcasm in these forums. One must be very clear with such things so they are not misinterpreted. try to be more specific and please use your quotes from the post you are responding to in the beginning of your post so we can tell what you are responding to from your first remark. This will be extremely helpful for those of us who are easily confused, even if I am the only moron in here, lol.
Lighten up again?
Okay I get your message and have to form my own opinion of you as you have noted.
I really am just trying to offer you advice as we have all seen this time and again in these forums. maybe you know this , maybe you don't. But advice was meant in a friendly manner just in case you were not aware of the problems of saying things like 'lighten up' to someone in a post.
So this is you, this is me, and we will be we.
There are some here who avoid me because they choose to dislike me because of the interactions here in the forum, as though they know me personally and have disdain for me as a person. Those also apply the same type of responding that you do.
I guess I am just of the mind that if all it takes is a little diplomacy to avoid such things, then why not be diplomatic instead. Is it really necessary to choose to dislike a person that you have never met and know only based upon their speculations on creation?
How about if you try to avoid taking my thoughts and speculations so heavily, and maybe you won't see the need to tell me to lighten up. And in the meantime I will try to tolerate and diplomatically evade any further evaluation from you.
I have no reason to dislike you, regardless of your forum interaction. And I choose to love you despite what might be your imperfections. But I also choose to point out what I think is mutually beneficial to state.
I'll see you out there, in here, lol.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - kdsii - 07-11-2012
I dont understand your notion that I don't like you, have disdain for you.
I don't know you, and in so have a neutral opinion of you.
The Law of One forums was the last place I thought I'd find someone crawling threads, picking forum fights.
I told you I was kidding, poking at you, saying 'I win'.
What a place full of prickly people... See ya.
(07-11-2012, 11:54 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-11-2012, 10:54 AM)kdsii Wrote: True, it can be hard to read when I'm just poking at you.
But a message between two members exclusively is a PM, or 'personal message', wouldn't you agree?
I don't recall becoming reluctant, just disagreeing with the nature of the higer self, remember? It was also a trivial topic anyway, not deserving of ruffled feathers.
And of course when I say <--BOOM to a quote that backs my previous statement, I'm not alpha-male-ing you, just teasing with 'I win'.
Typically when you ask a question with a definite answer in an open forum, you can expect an open variety of responses.
Lighten up!
(07-11-2012, 10:47 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-11-2012, 09:44 AM)kdsii Wrote: This is correct.
actually my question was addressed to azrael. I don't know if you think my question was in response to something that you had said or not. So I am uncertain of the correlation.
If per chance you are simply agreeing with what was said between AZ and I, then we shall both have to wait for his actual reply to see if he confirms how I have interpreted his words.
I have other questions to ask you with regard to this discussion but it seems that you became 'reluctant' in your earlier response so I am unsure of your desire to continue our topic.
It is difficult to read emotion and sarcasm in these forums. One must be very clear with such things so they are not misinterpreted. try to be more specific and please use your quotes from the post you are responding to in the beginning of your post so we can tell what you are responding to from your first remark. This will be extremely helpful for those of us who are easily confused, even if I am the only moron in here, lol.
Lighten up again?
Okay I get your message and have to form my own opinion of you as you have noted.
I really am just trying to offer you advice as we have all seen this time and again in these forums. maybe you know this , maybe you don't. But advice was meant in a friendly manner just in case you were not aware of the problems of saying things like 'lighten up' to someone in a post.
So this is you, this is me, and we will be we.
There are some here who avoid me because they choose to dislike me because of the interactions here in the forum, as though they know me personally and have disdain for me as a person. Those also apply the same type of responding that you do.
I guess I am just of the mind that if all it takes is a little diplomacy to avoid such things, then why not be diplomatic instead. Is it really necessary to choose to dislike a person that you have never met and know only based upon their speculations on creation?
How about if you try to avoid taking my thoughts and speculations so heavily, and maybe you won't see the need to tell me to lighten up. And in the meantime I will try to tolerate and diplomatically evade any further evaluation from you.
I have no reason to dislike you, regardless of your forum interaction. And I choose to love you despite what might be your imperfections. But I also choose to point out what I think is mutually beneficial to state.
I'll see you out there, in here, lol.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Shin'Ar - 07-11-2012
(07-11-2012, 11:59 AM)kdsii Wrote: I dont understand your notion that I don't like you, have disdain for you.
I don't know you, and in so have a neutral opinion of you.
The Law of One forums was the last place I thought I'd find someone crawling threads, picking forum fights.
I told you I was kidding, poking at you, saying 'I win'.
What a place full of prickly people... See ya.
(07-11-2012, 11:54 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-11-2012, 10:54 AM)kdsii Wrote: True, it can be hard to read when I'm just poking at you.
But a message between two members exclusively is a PM, or 'personal message', wouldn't you agree?
I don't recall becoming reluctant, just disagreeing with the nature of the higer self, remember? It was also a trivial topic anyway, not deserving of ruffled feathers.
And of course when I say <--BOOM to a quote that backs my previous statement, I'm not alpha-male-ing you, just teasing with 'I win'.
Typically when you ask a question with a definite answer in an open forum, you can expect an open variety of responses.
Lighten up!
(07-11-2012, 10:47 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-11-2012, 09:44 AM)kdsii Wrote: This is correct.
actually my question was addressed to azrael. I don't know if you think my question was in response to something that you had said or not. So I am uncertain of the correlation.
If per chance you are simply agreeing with what was said between AZ and I, then we shall both have to wait for his actual reply to see if he confirms how I have interpreted his words.
I have other questions to ask you with regard to this discussion but it seems that you became 'reluctant' in your earlier response so I am unsure of your desire to continue our topic.
It is difficult to read emotion and sarcasm in these forums. One must be very clear with such things so they are not misinterpreted. try to be more specific and please use your quotes from the post you are responding to in the beginning of your post so we can tell what you are responding to from your first remark. This will be extremely helpful for those of us who are easily confused, even if I am the only moron in here, lol.
Lighten up again?
Okay I get your message and have to form my own opinion of you as you have noted.
I really am just trying to offer you advice as we have all seen this time and again in these forums. maybe you know this , maybe you don't. But advice was meant in a friendly manner just in case you were not aware of the problems of saying things like 'lighten up' to someone in a post.
So this is you, this is me, and we will be we.
There are some here who avoid me because they choose to dislike me because of the interactions here in the forum, as though they know me personally and have disdain for me as a person. Those also apply the same type of responding that you do.
I guess I am just of the mind that if all it takes is a little diplomacy to avoid such things, then why not be diplomatic instead. Is it really necessary to choose to dislike a person that you have never met and know only based upon their speculations on creation?
How about if you try to avoid taking my thoughts and speculations so heavily, and maybe you won't see the need to tell me to lighten up. And in the meantime I will try to tolerate and diplomatically evade any further evaluation from you.
I have no reason to dislike you, regardless of your forum interaction. And I choose to love you despite what might be your imperfections. But I also choose to point out what I think is mutually beneficial to state.
I'll see you out there, in here, lol.
Oh well. I was not saying that you felt any of those things. I was suggesting the problem that these forums create sometimes is things like that which i described. And I was just trying to let you know that we all need to be aware of this problem and tried to suggest my ideas of how that could be done.
Sorry that youy misunderstood. often another problem is the language barrier and how things meant on e way in one language are not the same in another.
These are all simply suggestions for all and not aimed at you. The only reason i was prompted to bring these up is because you continued to tell me to lighten up. That could be taken as insulting to some people.
Lighten Up! lol
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Unbound - 07-11-2012
We seek within.
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Shin'Ar - 07-11-2012
(07-11-2012, 03:41 PM)TheEternal Wrote: A moment.
No, we are saying that Identity is the Attributes of the Attribute-less Void, which is the absolute potential state of Consciousness, unaroused. When you speak of identity, you think of characteristics, definition, of kinetic states which ARE. However, when what speaks "I AM", they are not referring to something which they ARE, but to the state in which AREness arises within AMness. By this we mean to express that the term "are" in the English language is a reference that can only be made in the context of something that is differentiated from the individual self. When one speaks of "am", it denotes a permanence, something which is more than simply the perspective of the individual but something which identifies the attributes of the individual's essence.
Now, if we know that the most basic essence of all things is Void, Attribute-less, Identity-less, we have to somehow understand how and why identity arises within that. In this case, we would express that the self interactions within the awareness of the Void give rise to the reasoning that by the Void existing with itself there is by necessity an attribute which arises, that which is the Void's awareness of itself. This is awareness, consciousness, is the first identity of the Void. However, there are such things as partial or fractal identities, within which the first identity activates its infinite potential states of identity.
With that being said, we are the Void, we are the consciousness, the first identity, in that we are all identities. However, we, as Creators, choose what we identify with, and that which we identify with we form to. Why, when one says "I", must they refer to an identity? "I" is a word, "we", is a word, and what it in truth refers to is a Source of information, of Light, through which energy flows. When we say we, or I, we are referring to the first identity of Consciousness, that is Cosmic Awareness, but when we say Tanner Hartmann, we are referring to the fractal identity of the One consciousness which has been created in parallel with this body.
However, the identity and the body are linked only because of the associative values of the consciousnesses which interact with it. This individual has many names and many identities, each which is shaped according to the lens of the individual through which this one is viewed. In fact, every individual has hundreds, thousands of identities which all form a composite, continuum of Personality which appears to follow a pattern or wave, but in fact is a dynamic interaction of many identities within the base state which is consciousness.
Thus, the act of identification, through the statement "I Am", is an essential key to understanding how one may put themselves in the state of what is called in Vedanta, the witness-consciousness. By identifying with the All, with the Void, with the Permanent Space, the identity becomes that. When the Identity has become the Void, there is another step, wherein then the identified Non-Identity which is the Self is seen to be composed of Infinite Identity, and thereby its Non-Identity exists not because it is Nothing, which is still an identity, but because it can in no way be identified, due to the fact that it is without identifiable attributes.
Why is this? When you identify an attribute within the Non-Identity, you therefore perceive an Identity, and thus the perception of the Non-Identity is missed.
Thus, by sitting in the state of the Non-Identity, and watching the Identities as they arise, one may say that their Personality is for their picking and choosing, and that every aspect of the Self is absolutely malleable. We believe we have static personalities, or are stuck in the patterns of our genetics, but in truth the mind can transform at any moment.
(07-11-2012, 07:54 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-10-2012, 11:23 PM)TheEternal Wrote: I have only one disagreement with what you have said, and that is that I do not believe identities are particular to incarnations, but rather incarnations continue as a function of separated identities until the consciousness has unified itself with the Cosmic Awareness that is the presence, and then, both non-identity and identity function in symbiosis. This is the process of the creation of the Self, of Selves, by Selves, for Selves, for the Self, for fun and love!
The act of identification is a sense, a mixture of two fields. There is no motion without identity, but there is a natural process in which identity becomes a frictive force between instances of non-identity. That is, when the being is truly freed from the limited perception, there is not the freedom from the cycle of life and death in the way of presence and existence, but rather that the configurations of one's consciousness allows for the integration with nature and thus for the allowance of natural multi-dimensional existence to arise as deeper unity is seen through all dimensions.
There is nothing wrong with identity, but it is a tool with many uses, and as such, being one of the most powerful facets of consciousness which is perceivable in experience, it must be regarded as sacred in a way that without identity the lack of identity would remain unfulfilled and only in potential, with no wonders ever being made kinetic.
I am not sure about everything that you have said but it seems that what you are pointing to is what would become the difference between the temporary identity of one human incarnation and the permanent identity of the actual field of consciousness that is evolving throughout many different forms and identities. In that you are saying that each field of consciousness has an identity separate from the one's it adopts within an incarnation?
Is this correct?
Thank God, you showed up when you did !!! lol
RE: Why Return to Earth? - Sagittarius - 07-12-2012
(07-11-2012, 03:41 PM)TheEternal Wrote: A moment.
No, we are saying that Identity is the Attributes of the Attribute-less Void, which is the absolute potential state of Consciousness, unaroused. When you speak of identity, you think of characteristics, definition, of kinetic states which ARE. However, when what speaks "I AM", they are not referring to something which they ARE, but to the state in which AREness arises within AMness. By this we mean to express that the term "are" in the English language is a reference that can only be made in the context of something that is differentiated from the individual self. When one speaks of "am", it denotes a permanence, something which is more than simply the perspective of the individual but something which identifies the attributes of the individual's essence.
Now, if we know that the most basic essence of all things is Void, Attribute-less, Identity-less, we have to somehow understand how and why identity arises within that. In this case, we would express that the self interactions within the awareness of the Void give rise to the reasoning that by the Void existing with itself there is by necessity an attribute which arises, that which is the Void's awareness of itself. This is awareness, consciousness, is the first identity of the Void. However, there are such things as partial or fractal identities, within which the first identity activates its infinite potential states of identity.
With that being said, we are the Void, we are the consciousness, the first identity, in that we are all identities. However, we, as Creators, choose what we identify with, and that which we identify with we form to. Why, when one says "I", must they refer to an identity? "I" is a word, "we", is a word, and what it in truth refers to is a Source of information, of Light, through which energy flows. When we say we, or I, we are referring to the first identity of Consciousness, that is Cosmic Awareness, but when we say Tanner Hartmann, we are referring to the fractal identity of the One consciousness which has been created in parallel with this body.
However, the identity and the body are linked only because of the associative values of the consciousnesses which interact with it. This individual has many names and many identities, each which is shaped according to the lens of the individual through which this one is viewed. In fact, every individual has hundreds, thousands of identities which all form a composite, continuum of Personality which appears to follow a pattern or wave, but in fact is a dynamic interaction of many identities within the base state which is consciousness.
Thus, the act of identification, through the statement "I Am", is an essential key to understanding how one may put themselves in the state of what is called in Vedanta, the witness-consciousness. By identifying with the All, with the Void, with the Permanent Space, the identity becomes that. When the Identity has become the Void, there is another step, wherein then the identified Non-Identity which is the Self is seen to be composed of Infinite Identity, and thereby its Non-Identity exists not because it is Nothing, which is still an identity, but because it can in no way be identified, due to the fact that it is without identifiable attributes.
Why is this? When you identify an attribute within the Non-Identity, you therefore perceive an Identity, and thus the perception of the Non-Identity is missed.
Thus, by sitting in the state of the Non-Identity, and watching the Identities as they arise, one may say that their Personality is for their picking and choosing, and that every aspect of the Self is absolutely malleable. We believe we have static personalities, or are stuck in the patterns of our genetics, but in truth the mind can transform at any moment.
(07-11-2012, 07:54 AM)ShinAr Wrote:(07-10-2012, 11:23 PM)TheEternal Wrote: I have only one disagreement with what you have said, and that is that I do not believe identities are particular to incarnations, but rather incarnations continue as a function of separated identities until the consciousness has unified itself with the Cosmic Awareness that is the presence, and then, both non-identity and identity function in symbiosis. This is the process of the creation of the Self, of Selves, by Selves, for Selves, for the Self, for fun and love!
The act of identification is a sense, a mixture of two fields. There is no motion without identity, but there is a natural process in which identity becomes a frictive force between instances of non-identity. That is, when the being is truly freed from the limited perception, there is not the freedom from the cycle of life and death in the way of presence and existence, but rather that the configurations of one's consciousness allows for the integration with nature and thus for the allowance of natural multi-dimensional existence to arise as deeper unity is seen through all dimensions.
There is nothing wrong with identity, but it is a tool with many uses, and as such, being one of the most powerful facets of consciousness which is perceivable in experience, it must be regarded as sacred in a way that without identity the lack of identity would remain unfulfilled and only in potential, with no wonders ever being made kinetic.
I am not sure about everything that you have said but it seems that what you are pointing to is what would become the difference between the temporary identity of one human incarnation and the permanent identity of the actual field of consciousness that is evolving throughout many different forms and identities. In that you are saying that each field of consciousness has an identity separate from the one's it adopts within an incarnation?
Is this correct?
Thank you, I learnt a lot from that. Perfect time to read it to.