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RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Sacred Fool - 06-28-2022
(06-28-2022, 07:48 AM)Spiritualchaos Wrote: This will be my last post on these boards.
Your presence will be missed very much. The heart/mind balance here has been skewed for such a long time, and your departure only weakens it further. I am sorry to see you go. And I wish you all good things in your wanderings.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Diana - 06-28-2022
From my perspective, the New Age movement is as it ever was. It's just that today, after the Internet has expanded exponentially, enabling anyone to publish anything, more and more people are taking advantage of a digital platform from which to do business of any kind and share anything they want to share.
I would make two points regarding this phenomenon:
1. Because of the flood of digital "information" coupled with the massive growth in online (much amateur) business, the need for discernment has generally switched from filtering systems (such as traditional publishers who used to verify credentials, edit the works, discern content) to the end reader/user. This is probably a good thing, but in the meantime there is a morass of stuff out there to slog through if one is inclined to seek there.
2. The desire to learn from, or follow, someone else (gurus, teachers) be looked at. This is not to suggest there is anything wrong with following a guru. The idea of teach/learn may be seen as a construct within which an individual exists, where everything is in relationship to everything else (just as there is no one static point in the universe—everything is moving in space relative to everything else), and we constantly interact with each other and all things and conscious evolution is born out of the complexity. The traditional guru/teacher/minister is more like a linear one-way construct where the teacher is showing the way which has already been determined and the student is following an already-determined path.
(06-28-2022, 03:29 AM)tadeus Wrote: I read your article now, because you have criticised that i have posted something without reading it completely.
Your article is a good summary, offering some new aspects i didn't recognize, specially the exact details what happened with Don.
To be clear - i don't want to judge the story about Don, Carla and Jim in any way!
I agree that it is helpful to understand the story about the channeling team, because the situations did influence the content of the Ra channelings.
But i cannot understand how this relates to "New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations" ?
u/greenraylove Wrote:I think everyone should know the story of Don's death in relation to the Ra material. Not only is it a cautionary tale for those who claim to want to work with high magic, showing how easily small distortions of the ego can become huge problems when you become the focus of a negative entity, but it also shows another victim of our intensely violent police state.
This is true, but at least all suicides are affected by distortions that come mainly from beyond the self, the reasons can be very different.
Referring to the above post i want to say, that it is better to concentrate on the content of the learning and not on the teacher.
Whatever happened to the channeling team is very tragic, but has no influence to the content Ra has teached.
It is the same to every other source of knowledge - please learn to distinguish.
There are sources with teachers who have an attitude that can only be rejected, but who can still provide essential knowledge.
So i will end here quoting Q'uo:
https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2022/0428 Wrote:We ask you that perpetual favor: that you utilize the words and thoughts that we give you that you feel are important to you at this time, and for those that do not speak to your heart, that you leave those behind. We, appreciate this gift of your discrimination, it allows us a wider range of response to your query.
(06-28-2022, 07:48 AM)Spiritualchaos Wrote:(06-28-2022, 03:29 AM)tadeus Wrote: It is the same to every other source of knowledge - please learn to distinguish.
There are sources with teachers who have an attitude that can only be rejected, but who can still provide essential knowledge.
The fact that you cannot see how all of this is connected, makes me feel like you are the one who might be having troubles distinguishing what is worth knowing and what is not. I have no issues seeing the connections, as they are everywhere and in every situation within this spiritual movement and throughout life. I understand the Law of One deeply as I have been living it since the day I came to this place, and this stuff matters. How it effects you physically, emotionally and spiritually matters deeply.
This will be my last post on these boards. Good luck on your journey forward, I hope one day you can learn how to live from your heart and not just your mind. But I am running out of hope for this place when even the wanderers are having difficulties discerning how to live from a place of unconditional love. Love is the most powerful magic in the universe, yet everyone wants to skip over their hearts. That is what the service to self polarity does and I want no part of it.
I read the Reddit article, which was very well written and did seem to have a very balanced perspective on the original team and their story. However, I did have to ask how that person knew some of the details as (s)he had been studying the material for only seven years, at which time Don had already gone. Some of the details may be discerned from the writings of Carla and the last Ra book, but I imagine some assumptions were made. Some assumptions may actually have made by Carla and Jim.
There is no way at all that any of us can know what was going on with Don. And I agree with Tadeus that I do not wish to canvass it.
What matters to me is that the material is here, and that it be of use to us.
@Spiritualchaos: The idea of repressing emotion and being stoic or sheltering oneself with intellect is a valid concern. We all, every one of us, has parts of ourselves hidden from the conscious mind that trigger us and would be best brought into the light. But this also goes the other way—being in touch with emotions without wisdom is also out of balance.
I would add that we all try and accept each others' views as we are all different and at different points in comprehension of this very mysterious existence. I do think that frustration arises out of a need to be understood. In communicating ideas, I don't think blame (and I speak generally, not to anyone specifically) is very helpful, and the burden of being understood must at least in part be the responsibility of the person attempting to be understood.
I personally work on my ability to clearly communicate all the time, and this is one of the reasons I have stayed here for many years. It is very difficult to articulate spiritual ideas which do not lend themselves to words. We all just keep going forward the best we can in this veiled existence.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Sacred Fool - 06-29-2022
(06-28-2022, 12:42 PM)Diana Wrote: @Spiritualchaos: The idea of repressing emotion and being stoic or sheltering oneself with intellect is a valid concern. We all, every one of us, has parts of ourselves hidden from the conscious mind that trigger us and would be best brought into the light. But this also goes the other way—being in touch with emotions without wisdom is also out of balance.
I would add that we all try and accept each others' views as we are all different and at different points in comprehension of this very mysterious existence. I do think that frustration arises out of a need to be understood.
I enjoy your thoughtful monologues, Diana, by the way.
On the topic of emotion and wisdom, I would not argue with your point, but I would take it a step deeper by suggesting that wisdom is an ornament of emotion, they are not equal in value. I intend this in the following sense. Confederation sources teach that the goal of spiritual seeking is to experience the original vibration, to experience the consciousness of the Creatrix/Creator coming through one, as one, to the extent that one can allow this to happen.
For example, this from October 8th, 1989.
Quote:You see, my friends, consciousness is not as you feel
that it is. It is not the thinking; it is not the doing.
The closest we may come to the essence of
consciousness is purified emotion. There lies your
wisdom. That which inhabits your brain, that which
is given you within this illusion, is by and large that
given for the making of choices, this being the
density of choice. Much as a computer answers a
question “yes” or “no,” time and again, to come up
with any number of informations, so too does the
mind choose what it will perceive, and then arrange
that perception according to the distortions of its
own biases and understandings.
My point here is that, if to know full consciousness is to know purified emotion, then the way to know purified emotion runs through the deepest area of the heart. This is a mighty disciple, and not one I see discussed very often by the typical humanoid entity which is attracted to the Ra Material, even though, I would aver, there is no concept more central to this ideology. It's for this reason that I feel a pang of loss when a forum member who contributes a strong bias towards the Way of the Heart departs from these premises. The balance here is heavily skewed in my view, as I noted above, and that is as it is. But, you know, as one who dwells in a semi-arid clime, I accept the dryness, and yet I welcome the occasional monsoonal shower as well.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - tadeus - 06-29-2022
(06-28-2022, 07:48 AM)Spiritualchaos Wrote:(06-28-2022, 03:29 AM)tadeus Wrote: It is the same to every other source of knowledge - please learn to distinguish.
There are sources with teachers who have an attitude that can only be rejected, but who can still provide essential knowledge.
The fact that you cannot see how all of this is connected, makes me feel like you are the one who might be having troubles distinguishing what is worth knowing and what is not. I have no issues seeing the connections, as they are everywhere and in every situation within this spiritual movement and throughout life. I understand the Law of One deeply as I have been living it since the day I came to this place, and this stuff matters. How it effects you physically, emotionally and spiritually matters deeply.
This will be my last post on these boards. Good luck on your journey forward, I hope one day you can learn how to live from your heart and not just your mind. But I am running out of hope for this place when even the wanderers are having difficulties discerning how to live from a place of unconditional love. Love is the most powerful magic in the universe, yet everyone wants to skip over their hearts. That is what the service to self polarity does and I want no part of it.
Beloved sister, whatever I have done to provoke such a reaction - I apologize very much!
From my point of view, we have had a sober discussion here about the nature of teaching/learning, without any attack, insult or grudge on something.
You have telled us that you are in service to others and know you will shut down everything, you have deleted your videos, you refuse any further communication - why?
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - tadeus - 06-29-2022
(06-28-2022, 12:42 PM)Diana Wrote: From my perspective, the New Age movement is as it ever was. It's just that today, after the Internet has expanded exponentially, enabling anyone to publish anything, more and more people are taking advantage of a digital platform from which to do business of any kind and share anything they want to share.
I would make two points regarding this phenomenon:
1. Because of the flood of digital "information" coupled with the massive growth in online (much amateur) business, the need for discernment has generally switched from filtering systems (such as traditional publishers who used to verify credentials, edit the works, discern content) to the end reader/user. This is probably a good thing, but in the meantime there is a morass of stuff out there to slog through if one is inclined to seek there.
2. The desire to learn from, or follow, someone else (gurus, teachers) be looked at. This is not to suggest there is anything wrong with following a guru. The idea of teach/learn may be seen as a construct within which an individual exists, where everything is in relationship to everything else (just as there is no one static point in the universe—everything is moving in space relative to everything else), and we constantly interact with each other and all things and conscious evolution is born out of the complexity. The traditional guru/teacher/minister is more like a linear one-way construct where the teacher is showing the way which has already been determined and the student is following an already-determined path.
Thank you for your thoughts Diana.
I agree to both of your points - these do not contradict my considerations or what i have written.
Maybe i can add here a book about the New Age Movement (german) with the title
"Facts about the New Age Movement - Real alternative or aberration?" (2001) from John Ankerberg and John Weldon
Quote:Who are the leading proponents of the New Age movement?
The American actress Shirley MacLaine is one of the best-known proponents of the New Age.
She reached an audience of millions in America with her television series. Apparently, thousands followed her suggestions about contacting the world of the supernatural. Her seminars offered throughout America in 1987 were attended by some 14,000 participants.
She founded a spiritualist recreation center in Crestone in the American state of Colorado on a huge site, where so-called "transmitters" (people through whom spirit beings speak) offer their services to all visitors.
...
The American science journalist Marilyn Ferguson is also one of the leading representatives of the New Age. The programmatic title of her bestseller, which has also been published in German, is "The Gentle Conspiracy."
She is the editor of the journals Brain-Mind Bulletin and Leading Edge Bulletin.
...
The Journal of Transpersonal Psychology, first published in 1969, is considered the leading journal in the field. Dr. Frances Vaughan, the editor of this journal, states: "The transpersonal perspective views the disciplines of Far Eastern spirituality and the scientific methods of psychology in the Western world as complementary" ( The Journal of Transpersonal Psychology, Vol. 14, No. 1, p. 37).
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
So the New-Age-Movement did begin in the 70's.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - zedro - 06-29-2022
(06-29-2022, 01:18 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote: On the topic of emotion and wisdom, I would not argue with your point, but I would take it a step deeper by suggesting that wisdom is an ornament of emotion, they are not equal in value.
Wisdom (in the archetypal sense) is definitely not ornamental, it is the true understanding of love. That is why it's the 5th ray/density after Love.
I would suggest it is actually the opposite of being merely an 'ornament of emotion`, it is fundamental to understanding oneself, including that of emotion, to which I would regard emotion as ornamental to Love.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Sacred Fool - 06-29-2022
(06-29-2022, 06:11 AM)zedro Wrote:(06-29-2022, 01:18 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote: On the topic of emotion and wisdom, I would not argue with your point, but I would take it a step deeper by suggesting that wisdom is an ornament of emotion, they are not equal in value.
Wisdom (in the archetypal sense) is definitely not ornamental, it is the true understanding of love. That is why it's the 5th ray/density after Love.
I would suggest it is actually the opposite of being merely an 'ornament of emotion`, it is fundamental to understanding oneself, including that of emotion, to which I would regard emotion as ornamental to Love.
Clearly there are different ways to view this matter. Perhaps the simplest is that when the Creatrix/Creator first became aware, It did not become aware of wisdom, rather, It became aware of love. Love antecedes Light. Wisdom gives perspective on love, not the other way around (in a primordial sense), in the fundamental scheme of things, according to the alien ideology. (Don't blame me! ha ha) According to them, purified emotion--not reasoning--is the core of Self. Instead, reasoning is an aid (offering perspective) along the path to discovering the true heart of Self. This is why love is studied and master before wisdom. But maybe others are better informed than Confederation sources on this topic?
Of course, this business is only relevant to those who are working to seek beyond the small self (which thinks) to merge into the larger Self which knows. The idea is that that larger Self "knows," not via logic, but through a purified experience of being which correlates much more clearly with what we call emotion.
Stepping back from this, I realise it sounds off because we typically identify emotion with ephemeral, surface oriented experience and we tend to consider deliberate cognitive expression a deeper form of experience. So, how can emotion be deeper than deep thought? What's presented to us in the channeling is that the heart's deep knowing of love, for example, vibrates more deeply than any thinking can reach.
One formidable problem in discuss this, however, is that understanding the comparison can only come through direct personal experience. So, if one person's experience encompasses this and the other's does not, then the discussion will be fruitless, I would suppose.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Diana - 06-29-2022
(06-29-2022, 08:09 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Of course, this business is only relevant to those who are working to seek beyond the small self (which thinks) to merge into the larger Self which knows. The idea is that that larger Self "knows," not via logic, but through a purified experience of being which correlates much more clearly with what we call emotion.
A grasp of what love and wisdom actually are, from the point of view of intelligent infinity, is both difficult if not impossible to articulate, and difficult to reach due to the 3D constructs of each concept and being embedded here in 3D cultures and societies. Wanderers who do have some idea of the higher concepts of love and wisdom due to a 4th, 5th, or 5th density origin, are different even amongst themselves due to the lessons of those different densities. Earth societies and cultures have different degrees of dogma regarding these subjects. I personally think love is one of the most misunderstood concepts, but maybe that's because of where I fall in the evolutionary spectrum of densities.
The New Age movement generated judgments about things like love and anger and negative thinking, which I suppose is not untypical for human behavior. It is typical for humanity and its disciplines at any given time to purport to "know" things (geocentricity, Newtonian universe, women = chattel), and the resulting dogmas are pretty much ingrained and act like a gravity well, making thinking outside the box a challenge.
(06-29-2022, 08:09 AM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Stepping back from this, I realise it sounds off because we typically identify emotion with ephemeral, surface oriented experience and we tend to consider deliberate cognitive expression a deeper form of experience. So, how can emotion be deeper than deep thought? What's presented to us in the channeling is that the heart's deep knowing of love, for example, vibrates more deeply than any thinking can reach.
As far as I have been able to perceive it, to be able to tap into love—the second distortion, the creative principle—is something that one simply gets to via evolution of consciousness (which, is not a straight line in my estimation but a coalescence of each moment). There can be desire and the reaching of the Matrix to the Potentiator certainly, but the resulting accumulations of forward evolutionary movement in my view and experience are not so simple as asking for something—the work must be done, which is why following someone else or thing can be a more circuitous route.
It does make sense that, referencing the densities according to Ra, love or the creative principle would be arrived at first (4th density), then wisdom (5th density), then the balancing of the two in 6th density. I would like to say then, that the deeper understanding of wisdom may be just as important as the deeper understanding of love. The problem with discussing it is that we in our density just can't comprehend it. Wisdom is not just thinking, just as love is not just tribal associations.
So perhaps it is efficacious to explore the deeper meanings of love, first, here in 3D since this is, according to Ra and the Confederation sources, what lies ahead in the next density of experience, and, it would seem that there might be some reason why opening to love first is a prerequisite to accessing wisdom (free will > love > light).
Quote:15.21 Questioner: Well, in yesterday’s material you stated “we offer the Law of One, the solving of paradoxes.” You also mentioned earlier that the first paradox, or the first distortion I meant, was the distortion of free will. Could you tell me if there’s a sequence? Is there a first, second, third, fourth distortion of the Law of One?
Ra: I am Ra. Only up to a very short point. After this point, the many-ness of distortions are equal one to another. The first distortion, free will, finds focus. This is the second distortion known to you as Logos, the Creative Principle or Love. This intelligent energy thus creates a distortion known as Light. From these three distortions come many, many hierarchies of distortions, each having its own paradoxes to be synthesized, no one being more important than another.
More important or perhaps essential, to me, is to free oneself from the dogma and indoctrination of human constructs. An open-mindedness and willingness to question beliefs is essential to reaching any higher understandings of what love and wisdom may actually be in the larger view. In this regard, we as humans, and especially spiritual seekers (LOO, philosophical, religious, or otherwise), seem to want to make all sorts of judgments about what is loving and what is not. Letting go of this is very freeing. As an example, one may see a homeless person, and societal judgments may surface unknowingly such as "why can't that person get a job at a fast-food place" "they make more money begging on the corner in a day than I do working" "I won't support their drug habits" "I feel uncomfortable in my car having to face them as they walk by...why doesn't the light turn green" and so on. But if you (anyone) are able to let go of these judgments, you may be able to see homeless people as just people, and be able to smile and wave like they are actually humans you can interact with instead of people you try to avoid. Another example is skin color—as long as we keep finding ways to identify ourselves by skin color (or sexual orientation, or political affiliation, and so on) we will continue to maintain separation.
So that would be a great step in my view toward accessing a deeper comprehension of "love"—to work on examining judgments and beliefs, which is more difficult than imagined due to ingrained cultural and societal indoctrination. It really boils down to acceptance, but acceptance relies upon deconstructing the belief systems built up that block new information from entering consciousness (the tower in Potentiator of the Spirit). The Matrix of the Spirit is in darkness and fear and until the lightning strikes, or simply light, illuminates.
I do have a tendency to monologue.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - zedro - 06-29-2022
Quote:"But maybe others are better informed than Confederation sources on this topic?"
Replace "than" with "of"....while I understand your analysis, it is just that, and it relies on specific personal interpretations of what love and wisdom mean. Also I feel this is a misrepresentation or distortion of what Confederation sources are actually saying. Aligning your specific views as representing the defacto stance of the Confederation sources is a bit of a red flag.
Quote:"Perhaps the simplest is that when the Creatrix/Creator first became aware, It did not become aware of wisdom, rather, It became aware of love."
No one is qualified to claim what the first awareness was, but why does it matter? There is no shortage of quotes that reflect that wisdom (5th ray) is part of self awareness, and the integration of love (4th ray). To brush off 5th ray as ornamental is quite baffling, as it's fundamental to the evolutionary process to the creator understanding itself. It's an archetype, the opposite of ornamental.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Sacred Fool - 06-29-2022
(06-29-2022, 11:47 AM)Diana Wrote: More important or perhaps essential, to me, is to free oneself from the dogma and indoctrination of human constructs. An open-mindedness and willingness to question beliefs is essential to reaching any higher understandings of what love and wisdom may actually be in the larger view. In this regard, we as humans, and especially spiritual seekers (LOO, philosophical, religious, or otherwise), seem to want to make all sorts of judgments about what is loving and what is not.
I fly into this matter using a different approach. I begin internally with something like Beauty--beauty of spirit, for example--and purposely experience this at different levels of consciousness, i.e., at the level of different energy centers and energy bodies. As one learns to do this and can move gradually further upwards, the experience of "Purified" consciousness--or emotion--becomes more apparent. Truly each level is simply different in its own context, not better, but the experience does become increasingly sublime (purified) as one moves up the scale, so to speak.
Maybe the language breaks down here, but language is just a means of articulating thought and feeling, and we can use it as best we can. Doing the above, one first experiences beauty as something like (close to) an emotion, after that, one may think about it, appreciate it, etc. In that sense, the thinking (self reflection) offers embellishment to the experience. One can see that as negative (demeaning) or positive (enhancing). Take your pick.
As to questioning societal constructs, I see that as an additional level of work. Personally, I try not to take all that stuff too personally. It's there to enjoy by those who are captivated by it. Otherwise, as you say, it can be discarded as one becomes aware of one's entanglement in it, as you suggest.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Sacred Fool - 06-29-2022
(06-29-2022, 12:22 PM)zedro Wrote:Quote:"But maybe others are better informed than Confederation sources on this topic?"
Replace "than" with "of"....while I understand your analysis, it is just that, and it relies on specific personal interpretations of what love and wisdom mean. Also I feel this is a misrepresentation or distortion of what Confederation sources are actually saying. Aligning your specific views as representing the defacto stance of the Confederation sources is a bit of a red flag.
Well, if I were to turn around and rant that your reply is based upon your own personal insecurity regarding your own personal biases, whom would that be serving? Would such a claim bring any of us any closer to truth and light, or would it inspire contraction and coldness? The choice is mine...and yours.
Also, "A bit of a red flag" could just be a piece from a torn shirt. ha ha
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - LeiwoUnion - 06-29-2022
I gained a small flash-epiphany regarding the nature of the first three distortions and their relationship, and connection to further collection of distortions, or the so called Octave. I try to formulate a proper word salad but please, use your discernment.
We know the first distortions from Ra with the approximations of 1. 'free will', 2. 'logos, or Love' and 3. 'Light'. The second, as said many times, seems to be the most enigmatic of the trio. Studying the words logos and Love will lead, if desired, to proto indo european type root words for 'to gather, to collect' (logos) and 'to care, desire, love' (Love). Regarding the One Infinite Creator, it possibly means that after the awareness of a capability for 'action' (free will) a form of desire or will to gather/collect formulated for the Mind/Creator. This is the so called Love, Creative Principle, or in other words experience. However, all experience in infinite potentiation existed instantly from the beginning, so the third distortion of Light formulated to illuminate all potentiation into manifestation as the Octaves of creation in the mind of the Creator.
This hierarchy of distortions is hard to transfer smoothly into an understandable form for the evolving sparks of life. The structure is there within all but our will is NOT will of the Creator, our love is NOT the Love of the Creator, and because we are LIGHT we cannot truly 'see' beyond this limit. Our experience is skewed from the viewpoint of the Creator as the Creator can only experience absolute efficiency as that is the Creator's will, while we may interfere with our will whenever to manifest different route of experience --> hence the term law of confusion, as not even the Creator in a causal sense knows beforehand which experience manifests through each spark of Light. Thus, our manifestation of Love almost never matches the 'blueprint' or the direct route back to Oneness. Creator imagines this but gets something wholly unique every time probably even with same parameters for evolution. Truly a wonder (and kind of a paradox) of the infinite Creation. I can imagine that, because of the, shall I say, 'kinks' this kind of free will based Creation seems to manifest, the so called 'angelics' which excercise the pure will of the Creator within the Octave structures were created to smoothen the swings of the Great pendulum.
This is my understanding.
PS: Regarding the recent personality complex (I'm assuming) based frictions here, it would be well for anyone to focus on accepting the fact that no one can or may understand the views and the mind of other's or even themselves here at this time. I went through a similar process one time in the past only to realize that worded ultimatums are not quite what they on surface level seem to be, or what we think them to be.
PPS: Wisdom is the core of true love, while love is the core of true wisdom; they are the same. That is the truth of the 7th way.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Sacred Fool - 06-29-2022
(06-29-2022, 02:08 PM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: This hierarchy of distortions is hard to transfer smoothly into an understandable form for the evolving sparks of life. The structure is there within all but our will is NOT will of the Creator, our love is NOT the Love of the Creator, and because we are LIGHT we cannot truly 'see' beyond this limit.
Maybe, maybe not.
March 9, 1974 Wrote:When you meet your fellow man in your daily
activities, you will recognize him for what he really
is, a part of the creation, just as you are part of the
creation. And the creation, my friends, is the
Creator.
And then, as you look at Him and He looks at you,
the Creator looks at Himself, through each pair of
eyes. It is only necessary that you recognize this
concept and understand it, and then your thinking
and the Creator’s will be the same. And you will
know the meaning of love.
March 17. 1985 Wrote:I am Latwii, and, in general, your assumptions are
correct. We may make one clarification, that being
that the one serving as healer, when it offers itself
wholeheartedly with no personal will as to the
outcome, but serves as a channel for the Creator’s
will to move through, cannot, shall we say, “goof
up.” It is not upon the shoulders of the healer that
the healing is carried, but upon the shoulders of the
one to be healed in its ability to allow the Creator to
move within its being.
April 5, 1987 Wrote:Thus, when one says, “It is the Creator’s will,” one is
not separating oneself from the Creator. One is
rather acknowledging the relationship betwixt the
shell of self which serves in an illusion and the core
and heart of Self which resides in its true native land,
a heavenly home not fitted out with harps and
wings, but, rather, filled with light.
October 5, 1987 Wrote:Each entity whom you may become intimate with is
a portion of that Creator, and you must know
yourself to be the Creator’s own son or daughter.
You must grow up within the house of prayer and
meditation, argue with the Creator, complain to the
Creator, praise, thank, bless or curse the Creator; but
accept for awhile the premise that you can have an
intimate, lively, spontaneous, continuing and
dynamic relationship with that great Self which is All
That There Is. This Creator is not One which shall
tamely do your bidding, nor are you one who shall
tamely do the Creator’s bidding unless much time
has been spent, much realization gained concerning
the dependability of the Creator’s will. Therefore,
there is work to do and much, much time to do it.
November 11, 1990 Wrote:There is this generous thing of which you need to be
aware within yourself, that being that the Creator’s
will is in no wise different from one’s own; it simply
sees from a vastly improved point of view. To this
point of view ten thousand years mean little, for the
values which create the absolute you that you are, are
also absolute. Thusly, it serves one better to affirm to
oneself, as well as to express the seeking.
The general point is that mission in 3D is to feel through the veil, even though one cannot have the experience of seeing through it very far, but feel through it into the deepest sense of self to know self as Self. Is this not the basic message, to, yes, to know the love of the Creatrix/Creator using the foggy glasses of one's own essential distorted holographic pattern of Infinite Love.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - LeiwoUnion - 06-29-2022
Yes. Yet, faith is still required, because this knowing will not be absolute until the endpoint.
If a late sixth density being knows its origin and nature absolutely, why is it still only late sixth density aware?
Our version of Love is a unique piece of All, revealed or rising from the void during the eternal Now. The true nature or the extent of the Creator's Love will only be revealed at the absolute endpoint. Why is acceptance so critical for Love, so much so that it is practically a synonym? Without (true) acceptance experience will repeat leading to 'missed opportunities' (at the spot), going further from the 'blueprint'. It is not worse or even bad, but it is different from the point of view of the will of the Creator. These are my thoughts, and should not be regarded as factual statements.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Sacred Fool - 06-29-2022
(06-29-2022, 04:26 PM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: Yes. Yet, faith is still required, because this knowing will not be absolute until the endpoint.
Very much so. This one element (the way in which our individual faith crystallises) which contributes to our uniqueness, I would suggest.
Quote:If a late sixth density being knows its origin and nature absolutely, why is it still only late sixth density aware?
Good question. My sense is that it comes down to one thing Ra points to: Identity. As our identity blends more and more with the one infinite Creatrix/Creator, we proceed further along our path.
Quote:Our version of Love is a unique piece of All, revealed or rising from the void during the eternal Now. The true nature or the extent of the Creator's Love will only be revealed at the absolute endpoint. Why is acceptance so critical for Love, so much so that it is practically a synonym? Without (true) acceptance experience will repeat leading to 'missed opportunities' (at the spot), going further from the 'blueprint'. It is not worse or even bad, but it is different from the point of view of the will of the Creator. These are my thoughts, and should not be regarded as factual statements.
I'm not sure there can be an "absolute endpoint" where there is an individual essence observing the whole. I suspect the endpoint is dissolution into the One.
As I see it, acceptance is crucial in terms of the long process of "tuning" self to Divinity. From there the way forward is all about blossoming and creation...i.e., actively becoming the Creatrix/Creator, step by step, level by level, following the upward spiraling light of inspiration and realisation.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - "the stumbled one" - 06-29-2022
Wonderful to see this thread topic go off, I feel it too. It is a defensive trigger I feel, and if I follow my thoughts and feelings as to why I am triggered it leads me to a point, "is spiritualism a cop-out of the mind, an easy way out...?"
For a quick fix I remember Ra mentioned "Knowing is not a pre-requisite". For a deeper fix, I remember Mooji returning back to a quiet state of awareness. Ultimately I remember something from a forest walk a tree once told me... "If it is a thought in your mind, it isn't real..." All we have here that is real, is our perception.
It doesn't matter if someone preaches something from a limited perspective, or if someone uses spiritualism to prey upon the fragile minds lost behind the veil so desperate for a way out. Things are neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so. It is up to the individual soul to recognize what resonates "with" them within their distortion, and to judge what particular truth is real from their perspective. You always act in perfect accordance with the reality you are perceiving. So is everyone else.
What does matter is here and now and the choices we make, being aware of the choice is just a bonus but not a requirement.
That said, I choose to watch your channel because it resonates with me and I like the voice, some other channels I have watched all I hear is my own voice "but, its of the mind...".
Imagine a world where no one can be deceived.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - LeiwoUnion - 06-30-2022
@Sacred Fool I agree wholeheartedly with all of your previous 'fine tuning' counterpoints. They seem to catch the idea I tried to convey in my own way; and now the idea is in more focused and coherent form, thank you.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - tadeus - 06-30-2022
(06-29-2022, 11:47 AM)Diana Wrote: The New Age movement generated judgments about things like love and anger and negative thinking, which I suppose is not untypical for human behavior. It is typical for humanity and its disciplines at any given time to purport to "know" things (geocentricity, Newtonian universe, women = chattel), and the resulting dogmas are pretty much ingrained and act like a gravity well, making thinking outside the box a challenge.
It does make sense that, referencing the densities according to Ra, love or the creative principle would be arrived at first (4th density), then wisdom (5th density), then the balancing of the two in 6th density. I would like to say then, that the deeper understanding of wisdom may be just as important as the deeper understanding of love. The problem with discussing it is that we in our density just can't comprehend it. Wisdom is not just thinking, just as love is not just tribal associations.
So perhaps it is efficacious to explore the deeper meanings of love, first, here in 3D since this is, according to Ra and the Confederation sources, what lies ahead in the next density of experience, and, it would seem that there might be some reason why opening to love first is a prerequisite to accessing wisdom (free will > love > light).
Quote:15.21 Questioner: Well, in yesterday’s material you stated “we offer the Law of One, the solving of paradoxes.” You also mentioned earlier that the first paradox, or the first distortion I meant, was the distortion of free will. Could you tell me if there’s a sequence? Is there a first, second, third, fourth distortion of the Law of One?
Ra: I am Ra. Only up to a very short point. After this point, the many-ness of distortions are equal one to another. The first distortion, free will, finds focus. This is the second distortion known to you as Logos, the Creative Principle or Love. This intelligent energy thus creates a distortion known as Light. From these three distortions come many, many hierarchies of distortions, each having its own paradoxes to be synthesized, no one being more important than another.
More important or perhaps essential, to me, is to free oneself from the dogma and indoctrination of human constructs. An open-mindedness and willingness to question beliefs is essential to reaching any higher understandings of what love and wisdom may actually be in the larger view.
The Matrix of the Spirit is in darkness and fear and until the lightning strikes, or simply light, illuminates.
I do have a tendency to monologue.
That's a nice and wise monologue Diana.
One can really say that a core element of the New Age is to judge every thought and every action and then compulsively make a decision for what has been judged as positive.
The compulsion to judge can indeed be called human.
Arguing over competing understandings of faith is another human trait, incited by religions.
As opposite movement could be seen the dualism, where it is recognized that each polarity is in fact only the two sides of the same coin and ultimately everything is one.
You have raised another interesting core issue here, that many people think they have achieved something, that is not yet possible in this density. Development means to do one step after the other in the order it is possible.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - tadeus - 06-30-2022
(06-29-2022, 02:08 PM)LeiwoUnion Wrote: I gained a small flash-epiphany regarding the nature of the first three distortions and their relationship, and connection to further collection of distortions, or the so called Octave. I try to formulate a proper word salad but please, use your discernment.
(06-29-2022, 03:13 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Maybe, maybe not.
That's a really interesting discussion - but not relating to New Age - it would be fine to move this into a new thread.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - LeiwoUnion - 07-01-2022
The rebel spirit in me when awake never quite manages to care for imaginary or artificial border constructs such as this forum structure. It sounds a bit deconstructive for the 'topic thread based discussion' but in the name of energy conservation lets just call it recurring mishap due to imaginary dyslexia.
If it will help, I can add the disclaimer 'PS: this is about new age' to my messages, no problem.
In any case, I'm still sorry for and compassionate over any confusion or indignance I may have caused with these, and other, 'misplacings'. I understand.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - dreamoftheiris - 07-08-2022
(06-23-2022, 01:30 PM)Spiritualchaos Wrote: Please bear with me, as I try my best to explain what I have been noticing as easily as I can, and wonder if anyone has anything to share on this ever so frustrating subject.
Why do you feel the new age movement is going in the direction that it is going?
I think there is a problem with the way all creators are forced to do business now. It is very difficult to stand out due to how social media algorithms work. If this is your career and you depend on content creation in order to make a living, then it makes sense for them to play the game they are playing. It's all formulaic and reeks of "disingenuous salesman" but it works, unfortunately. It's been around forever, only recently, though have I seen so many new age, spiritual type of courses/workshops appear.
I do think a lot of people are "waking up" in this time and are being drawn to teach these kinds of topics and feel they can contribute. However, they are playing by the rules of the "Matrix" and therefore are beholden to those rules. Meaning, that it appears that some, not all, are more worried about survival and not being a voice for One Infinite. Therefore, the majority of their content is rehashed material, not very deep, and downright misleading and they use marketing tactics like the ones you mentioned in order to increase their views and therefore profits.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - zedro - 07-08-2022
Exactly, it's hard to operate with only Love in the current paradigm, practical measures will always distort depending on what your dependencies are. However there are certainly lines that everyone has, and I'm more at ease with all the distortions knowing that the initial goal is to get people looking in their polarizing direction. People will seek better teachers as they are ready, and I have a feeling the catalysts for genuine teaching are ever increasing.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - dreamoftheiris - 07-08-2022
I agree - a lot of these types attract those who are just waking up and their audience tends to be very young people. Unfortunately, they also tend to be fairly naive as well. Eventually, if they are sincere seekers, they will begin to search for deeper information.
This is kind of how I found the Law of One material. I found it via conspiracies and UFO-related stuff. The Ra material very briefly touches on some of this but by finding it through those "vectors" it opened up a whole other universe. Hopefully, these youtube/social media influencers do the same.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Phoenix - 07-09-2022
I don't know if I agree that Don died because of "ego distortions", I don't think that is really fair. The general viewpoint from Carla in one of the books was that he had subconsciously found a way to prevent her getting 'displaced' and if there is any truth to that it is not an irrational action to have. Had the contacts continued as Carla's health continued deteriorating that could very well have happened.
The displacement stuff also breaks the mind away from objective reality.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Veszna - 07-17-2022
In this reality , especially now, everything is for one purpose : to choose. The internet is full of gurus selling their knowledge for money, channelers who broadcast themselves.
They're just playing their part, like we all do. I'm not mad at them, and I'm not disappointed in them, they're walking the same path as me. I am grateful to them because they taught me to listen to my inner voice.
But something is often forgotten, Wanderers are the ones who are most attracted to LOO, from 4th to 6th density.
Perhaps we can finally begin to rely on our inner wisdom wherever we are from which is easily accessible through meditation and contemplation... and not follow the shiny and fashionable new "stars" instead of the old and real wisdom.
You have everything IN YOU to be Harvestable or get your ticket to Home density.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - tadeus - 07-17-2022
Here is a channeling with the Q'uo, commenting on the exact meaning of "all is well":
Q’uo on the Slogan “All Is Well” and the Stakes of Evolution
Quote:Now, of what is negative time/space made? Well I suppose that depends upon whom you ask. If you ask somebody from negative time/space you will be told that it is made of the real stuff of the universe, and that it somehow represents that universe in a fundamental aspect of its being.
However, if you ask us, the answer you will get will be very different. For it seems to us to be made of undirected wayward affect of negative and shadowy feelings that have been over long aeons crystallized into the semblance of an actual place, with just enough beingness present to permit the continuation incarnative upon incarnation with in as well as the entrapment of which we have spoken. Still, we say to you: all is well. And by that we can only mean that even this monstrosity we call negative time/space is merely a figment of temporary expression of a resistance to the creation in the fundamental characteristic we know it by — once again, as love — a figment that in the fullness of time will be dissolved into that which is real, which is love, which does grant to each and every soul the fullness of its freedom and the joy of its capacity to enjoy the fruits of love and life everlasting.
...
Recall that the negative path has another name: “the path of that which is not”. Now, we find ourselves running into this brick wall on more than one occasion with your circle, my friends. How do we break down this paradox in such a way that you may make use of it? For we are not here to idly speculate. We are not here to satisfy vague whims of curiosity. We are here to serve, my friends: to serve the Creator that has made all, and to serve you, who is the Creator, who is in this third density illusion.
You are not pure positivity, my friends. And so, these ideas that you consider must be understood as partaking of illusion, partaking of that which is not. Now, do not hear in our words a chastisement, my friends. For we know that what the great wave of curiosity calls for pulls from points in the timeline behind and before you. There is hardly a thought you can turn in your head that has no value, save if it does not swim in the river of your desire. But this is, in a way, the whole paradox to begin with.
For you see, service always is a projection of unified love and light into a limited context where there can be an end and a means; an end that is love, and a means, a way of relating, a way of intelligently distributing light that can effect the recognition of the Creator’s hand in every single minute portion of this universe. This is what we mean by service, and, of course, so much more. But in order to serve you in formulating an answer to the question, we must first remind you that the parties to this dialogue here occupy limited viewpoints. And therefore, we must be caught up at some minute level, at least, in issues of that which is not.
And the invocation of the slogan that “all is well” is not designed or intended to mitigate fear and pain; that is not its purpose. For these are worthy portions of the white light. It is designed to expand the viewpoint, my friends, so that the questions you ask, the hypotheses you contemplate, need not break open and show you all of the mysteries within for you to benefit from them. They can instead be stepping stones to wider vistas where new and more urgent and, frankly, desirable, questions and hypotheses can be recognized.
...
Now, having said that, there are two points we should make next. The first is that should one such as ourselves be drawn into the negative time/space and be forced to become a creature of the negative path, we would have to, eventually, develop a taste for it. So, in this regard, it is not as if the feeling of horror would be endless. Rather, the same feeling would transmute into a kind of pleasure, though it is difficult, supremely difficult for us to image, we simply know it to be true.
The second point, and the most important for your consideration is if when we say that “all is well,” what we mean is “all is well that ends well,” then it would be a cruel expression. For simply declaring all to be well does not stop the horror. We see this as well as you. Consider the stakes for ourselves in this drama in which the two polarities find each other in conflict. Notice that we ourselves are drawn to your conflicted planetary sphere. It might seem to you that we in our densities may have better things to do and why should we care so much about a third density planet? To us, this is a strange thought. For we feel your suffering; we feel your horror as our own. Your stakes then are, in that regard, also our stakes.
...
Why, then, do those of the negative polarity take such an interest in your planetary sphere? Well, this is because they, for their own advancement and articulation of self, depend on it. This is why their method is conquest. The harvesting of subordinate yet similarly polarized individuals; the harvesting of a spiritual energy toward their ends is an important ingredient for progression through the densities along the negative path. So they have a need to entrap you so long as it plays by the rules. And we have a longing to liberate you so far as we can.
So we say that all is well, not because the suffering is not real, not because we do not feel it, and not because there will be ultimately a happy ending when the infinity of time has passed. We say this because to deny that all is well would thereby assert that there is an overriding ethical requirement. For when all is not well – when something is not well – this stands as an injunction. It is productive of a categorical imperative to attempt to make things well. Should we insist to you that all is not well, we would also end up offering to you an assertion of what you ought to do, and this is not for us to say. What you choose is acceptable. It is simultaneously true that what you choose is acceptable and that your suffering is our suffering; that your horrors are our horrors. There is an important cleavage between the ultimate acceptability of the universe as it is and the desirability or preference of a type of experience that you may have. We prefer against suffering and against horror. And we suspect — we are nearly certain — that you do as well.
...
So you can see that all being well does not mean that suffering does not count; it does not mean that life is fair; it does not mean that happy ends justify unpleasant means. It means, at least when we speak it, that the path you wend through your experience is acceptable, that we love you and accept you as you are, that your worries, especially when they reach toward the very grand scale, or the ultimate ends, or the fears of total annihilation, that those worries need not be the center of your focus. For, ultimately you will get infinite chances. Each will receive all the chances they need. And, fortunately, as we have suggested, even the suffering that you may endure, though it breaks our hearts, is still not infinite. So, in this regard, there is no hell. There is no endless suffering. Every wound eventually, at least to our understanding, is healed.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - Spiritualchaos - 07-19-2022
1
(06-29-2022, 05:34 AM)tadeus Wrote:(06-28-2022, 07:48 AM)Spiritualchaos Wrote:(06-28-2022, 03:29 AM)tadeus Wrote: It is the same to every other source of knowledge - please learn to distinguish.
There are sources with teachers who have an attitude that can only be rejected, but who can still provide essential knowledge.
The fact that you cannot see how all of this is connected, makes me feel like you are the one who might be having troubles distinguishing what is worth knowing and what is not. I have no issues seeing the connections, as they are everywhere and in every situation within this spiritual movement and throughout life. I understand the Law of One deeply as I have been living it since the day I came to this place, and this stuff matters. How it effects you physically, emotionally and spiritually matters deeply.
This will be my last post on these boards. Good luck on your journey forward, I hope one day you can learn how to live from your heart and not just your mind. But I am running out of hope for this place when even the wanderers are having difficulties discerning how to live from a place of unconditional love. Love is the most powerful magic in the universe, yet everyone wants to skip over their hearts. That is what the service to self polarity does and I want no part of it.
Beloved sister, whatever I have done to provoke such a reaction - I apologize very much!
From my point of view, we have had a sober discussion here about the nature of teaching/learning, without any attack, insult or grudge on something.
You have telled us that you are in service to others and know you will shut down everything, you have deleted your videos, you refuse any further communication - why?
I am sorry for my abrupt reactions, as I am going through a bit of a difficult time during the early stages of my wanderer awakening. I am struggling because my soul family is so lost that they cannot see me, I cannot reach them or help them get unstuck from any situation they find themselves in. Aaron avoids all contact with me, my partner is caught up in 3rd density distractions, like video games and Reddit, and facebook. And even though I’m a Ra wanderer with 2 members of my soul family that I know of on this planetary sphere, I feel alone, once again. I am trying to use my gifts of empathy and intution to better my life, and I am at least succeeding in that as much as I can, and I will be of service at the cost of my own self, every time, because I would do absolutely anyting in order to help other selves heal their pain, suffering and sorrow. And when I fail at that, time and time again, I withdraw from every connection I have in order to force myself to do it alone. And it be honest, I’m fucking tired of that attitude, as it has gotten me nowhere.
I apologize greatly for getting angry and disappearing. I am processing, as the pain and helplessness of the planet and they people on it can sometimes be far too much to bare for those who feel as deeply as I do. I just want to help and I have been angry at how little people around me want to commit to being better. I am surrounded by apathy and all I want to do is alievete the suffering as much as possible. I never stop trying no matter how frustrated I get, but I wish I could help more instead of everything I do, leaving to a dead end that seems to go nowhere, instead. It hurts to feel like I have the ability to help and yet I cannot.
I have a lot of past life memories, but none as confusing and frustrating and difficult as I’ve had in this life, here on this planet. I hope one day I can make greater sense of it al.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - tadeus - 07-19-2022
(07-19-2022, 01:34 AM)Spiritualchaos Wrote: I am sorry for my abrupt reactions, as I am going through a bit of a difficult time during the early stages of my wanderer awakening. I am struggling because my soul family is so lost that they cannot see me, I cannot reach them or help them get unstuck from any situation they find themselves in. Aaron avoids all contact with me, my partner is caught up in 3rd density distractions, like video games and Reddit, and facebook.
I just want to help and I have been angry at how little people around me want to commit to being better. I am surrounded by apathy and all I want to do is alievete the suffering as much as possible.
I am glad that you are back again here.
This observed "caught up in 3rd density distractions" seems to be normal and is increasing - i experience the same.
The surrounding suffering will increase and the distractions will focus more and more into a fight for survival - this is wanted in the transformation to the NWO.
Lately it is getting more and more difficult for me to concentrate on the everyday things, which mostly only serve to satisfy the Ego or are only perceived as occupational therapy. So at the moment I go out a lot and enjoy the summer, the contact with nature and the awareness of the now.
It is only possible to accept the current development with humility and focus on the positive changes that are present too.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - tadeus - 07-19-2022
(07-19-2022, 02:18 AM)Spiritualchaos Wrote: My sense of truth is verified by my feelings. That is who I am.
Logical minds cannot understand me at the essence of who I am, because I do not work on the logical levels.
Your logical minds are just a tool in the incarnation, whereas your hears are the soul of what you need to learn, experience and love while you are here. I am going to ignore my logical mind the majority of the time and listen to my heart, as it knows what is going on far more than my mind will ever be able to process.
That's the very important thing!
The logical levels make really no difference - it is correct that the logical mind is only a tool, but it can be a helpful tool.
For me it is helpful to try to keep in an state of awareness where the logical mind (and it's Ego) is present but (hopefully) not dominant, just helping to sort and differ what we have to struggle within this illusion.
RE: New Age Spiritual Movement Frustrations - LeiwoUnion - 07-19-2022
All is well dear sister Spiritualchaos. I feel there is a well disquised (or maybe not so well disquised) calling for sympathy and understanding, connection, in your late posts; thus I try to offer some words of potential help.
To me it seems you went to outer workings too early, before your inner workings were standing on, shall I say, a steady foundation. One heals oneself to heal others. One teaches oneself to be able to teach the others. Soul group work is not bound to timeframes, it is eternal; you are not in a hurry, you are here to accept and Love no matter the situation. You'll get better and better at it, and at some point you'll swim in the True color green-blue, just like at your true home. Have patience my friend, your intuition will surely enlighten your most efficient path forward, if you just looked closely within. We feel alike, you and I, and I can feel your frustrations and sorrow like an ice cold knife sinking in my chest. I truly hope you'll some day find the paradoxical and quite ironic humor in this hall of smoke and mirrors called the Earth experience, which seems to be taken as such serious business.
See you on the other side.