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+--- Thread: The current Ukraine crisis... (/showthread.php?tid=19762)
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-04-2022
So it has actually happened - they are calling for Putin's head. Ordinary people here in Germany. And I believe that he will be assassinated like Ghaddafi or Hussein before him. Cuz that is what NaTo wants - regime change. And then install a pro-Western puppet so they can plunder Russian ressources.
I really did not want to discuss UKraine-RUS crisis with anyone anymore these days, but two acquaintances of mine brought it up and asked my opinion. They listen to the mainstream news - and one of them actually said to me "he needs to be killed, I hope they kill him".
I said "why". "Because he is an evil dictator and threatens and invades other countries. And he might throw the atomic bomb at us"
I said "what countries - did he invade Iraq? Afghanistan? Libya? Syria? in order to plunder their oil and ressources?
Did he invade Vietnam or Korea?
Did he throw the atomic bomb at Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Does he keep a torture camp at Guantanamo?
Does he wage an illegal drone war via Ramstein Germany, killing wedding parties and other civilians with impunity?"
"Yeah ok, but he might invade Germany too"
"well maybe you dont remember but the Russians actually left Germany decades ago. And they dismantled the Warsaw pact thinking that the cold war was over. The Americans are still here occupying Germany with their military bases and Nato continues to expand ever closer to Russias border, despite Schultz having promised Gorbatchev not to do that back in the day..."
She then said she was getting another call and would have to leave and we ended the phone conversation.
I just don't get it. Our country like all the other Nato members backs so many atrocities and yet people call for Putins head?
I guess the atrocities are ok when committed by the right kinda people. Yeah like bombing other countries to further democracy. That must be it.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Patrick - 03-04-2022
He won't be targeted. Because a failed attempt would result in the end of the world (via global nuclear destruction). He said the world made no sense without Russia, but I suspect he also believes the world makes no sense without Putin.
But the fact remains that NATO being bathed in hypocrisy does not excuse Putin's action.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-04-2022
wow he really speaks to me. I get it now, it is quite simple - the thing is, it is ok to make people aware that there is another side to the story and one-sided mainstream reporting.
And it is ok, perfectly ok. Even if I did not want to talk about those issues cuz I thought it is not spiritual and it bogs me down into yellow ray stuff..... but well since people keep asking... and of course they are free to still believe in what TV and newspapers tell them nevertheless. A bit of self-judgmentalism dropped off me
Thank you Lee!Edit: Patrick I get you, of course one persons wrong does not excuse another persons wrong, I was just trying to point out to that person the other side. Of course it would be best to meet in the middle, but it is difficult if someone is convinced that someone (Putin) is the same as Hitler , just goes to show you how well the war propaganda machine is succeding with people here, for example they are photoshopping his face with the Hitler moustache, absolutely disgusting.... and imo it is legitimate to present facts showing extreme behavior of the US also, maybe as some sort of "balance".
Yo know I don't think I would feel the need to point stuff like that out if media etc were reporting less one-sided.... Patrick you of all people should be able to understand me, you felt the need to intervene and present the "other side" when the "vaccine thread" was full of anti-vaxx postings
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Patrick - 03-04-2022
Sure I understand. For me what is important is the egregore behind those things. Not necessarily the intentions that are behind those things. So for example the egregore for vaccination is that it will help keep us in good health, it's what people are putting their thoughts on regarding that thing, it's what they believe regarding it and our beliefs are powerful. As for the attack on Ukraine, the global population is not seeing it as a positive thing, whatever Putin's intention are. So even if somehow Putin was doing the right thing, the egregore behind ends up being negative. That being said, it's very hard for me to imagine that bombing cities would somehow be a positive thing for any reasons.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - flofrog - 03-04-2022
Obviously any invasion is that, an invasion. And the list given by Margan is long... When shall we get that we invade ourselves when we invade another country. The French were first in Vietnam and Afghanistan was in fact invaded by the Russians first. You just look back and you are like when shall we get it.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-04-2022
(03-04-2022, 01:29 PM)flofrog Wrote: Afghanistan was in fact invaded by the Russians first....https://www.workers.org/2017/06/31585/
"But Brzezinski himself later bragged that the CIA operation had begun six months before the Soviet Union sent troops to Afghanistan. In fact, the Soviet intervention was not an “invasion.” It had been requested by the Afghan government to defend it against the CIA’s covert war
Brzezinski bragged the truth
Brzezinski revealed the truth to the French paper Le Nouvel Observateur in 1998: “According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan on Dec. 24, 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise. Indeed, it was on July 3, 1979, that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.”
Asked by the interviewer if he now regretted anything, Brzezinski replied, “Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it?” (Le Nouvel Observateur, Jan. 15-21, 1998)"
Le nouvel observateur - you might still be able to find the french original , Flo.
Brzesinski was a national security advisor to the US government.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - aWanderer91 - 03-04-2022
I feel everyone is making extremely valid points, and I don't want to interfere with others free will to express their perspectives...
But let's not forget that invasions of any kind can be considered wrong, to second what Patrick said, nothing positive can ever come out of violence and infringing on another. Yes it's enormous catalyst but catalyst everyone could also do without. To get caught up in this narrative in a huge way can make one forget the bigger picture and lose clarity
And let's not forget to continue praying and sending love and light to Ukraine, which I believe is having a huge impact, I can already feel a calmness setting in to the English media and it seems they're not pushing the narrative as much as when the conflict begun.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - zedro - 03-04-2022
Hmm which genocidal machinations do I want to support? Should I avoid eating poutine and just go with freedom fries and gravy? Should I wag a finger at the Russian Blue cat next door? Thank gawd he's been banned from international cat competitions. How do I best virtue signal for my chosen rulers?
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-04-2022
I think you should get the vaxx in order to show your solidarity, dear zedro.
If you are Team Russia, choose Sputnik.
If you rather support the US Nato lead invasions, then of course it would have to be Pfizer.
The choice is yours!
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-04-2022
That's great wanderer, that there is calmness settling in your media over there.
Let's hope things get less heated over here as well...
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Patrick - 03-04-2022
(03-04-2022, 02:45 PM)Margan Wrote:(03-04-2022, 02:31 PM)zedro Wrote: Hmm which genocidal machinations do I want to support? Should I avoid eating pouting and just go with freedom fries and gravy? Should I wag a finger at the Russian Blue cat next door? Thank gawd he's been banned from international cat competitions. How do I best virtue signal for my chosen rulers?
I think you should get the vaxx in order to show your solidarity, dear zedro.
If you are Team Russian Tsar, choose Sputnik.
If you rather support the US Nato lead invasions, then of course it would have to be Pfizer.
The choice is yours!
And of course, if you're vegan you should choose the plant-based Medicago.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-04-2022
Ts ts Patrick, here I wanted to lead by example and delete my post in order to avoid thread derailing and ahem, be a good forumite and score Brownie points, and here goes the Community Steward Circle and quotes me and derails even further.....
Ts Ts.
Sorry Wanderer!!!
P.S: A plant-based covid vaccine? wow
P.S. and if you want to remain in the sinkhole of indifference you should choose... hm is there a Swiss vaccine? neutral???
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Patrick - 03-04-2022
I have a really bad track record with derailment (pun intended).
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-04-2022
omg Wanderer is gonna kill us lol
For my own safety and that of the other passengers, please ban me from this thread!!!!
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - aWanderer91 - 03-04-2022
Haha Noooo! Do continue to discuss whatever you like
I enjoy reading your conversations and it is also about the issue that the original thread was intended over too.I just also wanted to score some brownie points (maybe with the creator
) by throwing some balance into the mix.I like how passionate you are over this as well Margan, it's clearly something you hold closely to your heart, there's nothing wrong with that at all.
All is well.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - LeiwoUnion - 03-04-2022
I will lend my immense powers to help you un-derail this thread (for example, look at that double negative word that can only be a product of awesome self confidence and complete disregard towards the rules of human languages).
In der Trauer nichts Neues.
In the spirit of my last message I've deemed the trees wise. I too, enjoyed the chit-chat over the novel developments on Earth at this time with my less aware colleagues. This makes the solar plexus center glimmer and pulsate like a fiery flare. Connecting this fire with streams of blue ray energies one may feel like a mastermind strategist and gives feelings of being totally on top of 'the game'. Yet, this is without substance. I quickly grew weary of this; it is tiresome. The trees know the truth; silence of the mind; silence of the mouth; recovery. Yellow-Blue is switched to Green-Blue and I'm in harmony with myself, but am I in harmony with my surroundings, now? They say my brother may lead his horde of other brothers here next but does it matter? Brother against brother warring is a tiresome rerun. Is the destiny really a meeting of Love and Joy with new friends just moments before the fat lady sings and one of the selfs moves forward? Could I even spot the difference at this point? All die and not die at the same time, again and again. Silence of the body; Silence of the mind; Silence of the spirit; All are home. The vision is gone and the veil drops down. The crowd is dead silent, holding their breath. Yet again they missed the punchline.
Willkommen in der Trauer.
Tämä todellakin on tuhansien murheellisten laulujen maa.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-05-2022
This is for Flo (and whoever is interested in history) - chock full of information and quotes from US and Russian politicians, also from the NYT and other sources,
goes back all the way from the end of the USSR till now (yes it is long lol)
but if one wants to understand then those background facts are important
https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/the-history-behind-the-russia-ukraine-war/
and I was wrong in saying Schultz (who is Schultz?), actually it was Baker who promised to Gorbatchev about non Nato eastward expansion
sorry I am being so mundane again
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Quincunx - 03-05-2022
-------
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - jafar - 03-06-2022
(03-04-2022, 02:10 PM)aWanderer91 Wrote: And let's not forget to continue praying and sending love and light to Ukraine, which I believe is having a huge impact, I can already feel a calmness setting in to the English media and it seems they're not pushing the narrative as much as when the conflict begun.
Calmness in "Media" is a misleading indicator.
There are much calmness in Russian Media, all one can read and watch is how the mighty Russian military successfully crushes Ukrainian Nazis.
And definitely it's much calmer now, since those who dare to report otherwise are threatened with either death threat or prison.
Russian Duma passes law giving 15-year prison sentences for spreading ‘fake news’ about military
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-introduce-jail-terms-spreading-fake-information-about-army-2022-03-04/
Definitely send love and light to Russia, Ukraine, Belarusia and the entire world.
To clean our home from 'dust', we must first make the dust appear to the surface thus it can easily be seen.
And only then we can wipe the dust.
Hiding the dust under a rug will not solve any problem and actually making it worse.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - YinYang - 03-06-2022
I think most people around the world who isn't close to this conflict, had to educate themselves on the matter, myself included.
Here's a great podcast about the history of Ukraine (last 1200 years give or take) and all the events leading up to the current war:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/155-ukraine-and-russia/id1537788786?i=1000551948027
This decision lies exclusively with the Ukranians themselves, and they have spoken - they wish to be a sovereign country separate from Russia.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Margan - 03-06-2022
One needs to differentiate. The eastern provinces are traditionally more close to Russia and thus did not recognize the new pro-Western and russophobe government after the Maidan putsch.
Hence they split and created those separatist provinces - Donbass, Donetzk and Lugansk.
There has been civil war since 2014 and Kiew has been shelling those provinces, in breach of Minsk, cutting them off funds, prohibiting the Russian language etc.
They are being fought by neo-nazi elements that are part of the new Kiew regime
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
None of this is mentioned in the Western media of course
I recommend this link:
https://libertarianinstitute.org/articles/the-history-behind-the-russia-ukraine-war/
Here is more about the neo-nazi connection :
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/04/how-zelensky-made-peace-with-neo-nazis/
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - IndigoSalvia - 03-06-2022
My heart goes out to all who are caught up in this, and whatever position they find themselves in, whatever their beliefs and their set of facts. Our dear Earth is again experiencing war on her surface. It seems to be quite a precarious position for many. So, so many are touched by this war, whether at a distance or close to the physical fighting.
I have been wondering about the 2D life close to the fighting: the pets, the wildlife, the trees, and even the natural resources of the land.
I have felt powerless to help - in a physical way - as I am very far from this land. So, I continue to hold as many representations of this war in my heart, and visualize sending loving light to that area of the Earth.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - Diana - 03-06-2022
(03-06-2022, 11:49 AM)IndigoSalvia Wrote: I have been wondering about the 2D life close to the fighting: the pets, the wildlife, the trees, and even the natural resources of the land.
Thank you. I always worry—worry isn't accurate, for me it is the deepest sadness—about the same, since 2D life has no say in this matter and suffer because of human idiocy, and they suffer alone with nothing to assist in their healing. I think this also when we insanely do things such as controlled burns.
Regarding humanity, the world reminds me more and more of the book, 1984 by George Orwell. People just believing in the details of whatever narrative—deeply compartmented and labyrinthine and many-layered—but the underlying concept is perpetuating control and power.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - aWanderer91 - 03-06-2022
(03-06-2022, 12:07 AM)jafar Wrote:(03-04-2022, 02:10 PM)aWanderer91 Wrote: And let's not forget to continue praying and sending love and light to Ukraine, which I believe is having a huge impact, I can already feel a calmness setting in to the English media and it seems they're not pushing the narrative as much as when the conflict begun.
Calmness in "Media" is a misleading indicator.
There are much calmness in Russian Media, all one can read and watch is how the mighty Russian military successfully crushes Ukrainian Nazis.
And definitely it's much calmer now, since those who dare to report otherwise are threatened with either death threat or prison.
Russian Duma passes law giving 15-year prison sentences for spreading ‘fake news’ about military
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-introduce-jail-terms-spreading-fake-information-about-army-2022-03-04/
Definitely send love and light to Russia, Ukraine, Belarusia and the entire world.
To clean our home from 'dust', we must first make the dust appear to the surface thus it can easily be seen.
And only then we can wipe the dust.
Hiding the dust under a rug will not solve any problem and actually making it worse.
Thank you for your response
Calmness in the media is not an "indicator" in terms of changing the obvious catastrophic events taking place in real time.
But it certainly helps in terms of flooding the public with less fear, giving us as co-creators less to create from fear and gives us a break from the constant messages of doom.
I didn't mean it was an indicator of Ukraine being more at peace, but only that England are being fed less of a narrative which in turn can only help the conflict, as we are all co-creators of the events currently taking place.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - jafar - 03-06-2022
Fear itself is a catalyst, a catalyst for one to discover it's opposite, courage.
Fear is a tool, commonly used by STS, to control other self out of their own free will.
However fear only work towards certain limit, in which after reaching it's limit, boosting fear will only transmuted into courage.
Thus actually the best action upon faced with such catalyst is not to avoid it, but to face it head on!
What's happening in Ukraine is among an example of that.
How fear is now transmuting into courage.
“The fight is here; I need ammunition! not a ride”
-- Zelensky, responding to an offer from United States for safe route out of the country.
Red Chakra blockage are being released en masse.
And it's back firing to those who spread the fear.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1573885/Frustrated-Putin-barking-at-close-aides-invasion-Russia-Ukraine-news
The Russian leader is reportedly very frustrated and is frequently directing angry outbursts at people in his inner circle over military campaign and the global condemnation of his invasion of Ukraine.
He's experiencing his own recipe.. what goes around comes around..
Yet unlike the Ukrainians, he's not transmuting it.
And what are his solution to the problem?
Spread more fear!
As that's the only thing that he knows best.
Russian Duma passes law giving 15-year prison sentences for spreading ‘fake news’ about military
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-introduce-jail-terms-spreading-fake-information-about-army-2022-03-04/
Putin threatened any nations involved in Ukraine with Nuclear Threat
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/27/us/politics/putin-nuclear-alert-biden-deescalation.html
Russian oligarch Mikhail Watford found dead in UK mansion
https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2022/03/03/russian-oligarch-mikhail-watford-found-dead-in-uk-mansion/
Which will also act as more catalyst to boost courage within Russia and the rest of the globe.
Staff at an independent Russian TV station, Dozhd (TV Rain), walked out live on air while declaring 'No to war' after being shut down over their coverage of the Ukraine invasion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSOiXX_Rb-4
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - IndigoSalvia - 03-06-2022
(03-06-2022, 12:03 PM)Diana Wrote:(03-06-2022, 11:49 AM)IndigoSalvia Wrote: I have been wondering about the 2D life close to the fighting: the pets, the wildlife, the trees, and even the natural resources of the land.
Thank you. I always worry—worry isn't accurate, for me it is the deepest sadness—about the same, since 2D life has no say in this matter and suffer because of human idiocy, and they suffer alone with nothing to assist in their healing. I think this also when we insanely do things such as controlled burns.
Regarding humanity, the world reminds me more and more of the book, 1984 by George Orwell. People just believing in the details of whatever narrative—deeply compartmented and labyrinthine and many-layered—but the underlying concept is perpetuating control and power.
I read several articles about how to help animals in Ukraine area. I ended up donating to an organization as close to the 'action' as I could find.
If I were in their shoes, I don't think I could leave my animals behind. I've fostered shelter dogs for 20 years, and volunteered in shelters. There are some people in Ukraine who are staying behind to stay with their animals, whether shelter animals or companion pets. Hard, hard choices being made.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - IndigoSalvia - 03-06-2022
Very interesting that at some point, courage develops from fear.
If one stays and fights, possibly kills another, I wonder what kind of blockage, energetic ramifications, karma that may bring about.
Spiritually speaking, it seems a complex landscape. Is one fighting to save one's home? one's land? one's beliefs? Is one fighting to protect others' lives? Likely, all of the above and much more.
When one takes another's life, does the context of such an act matter metaphysically? What energies, what motivations are involved in the taking of a life. I remember some dialogue between LL and Ra about heroism, and protecting another's life, but I can't remember off the top of my head anything else, any specific ethical and spiritual implications of war time acts.
(03-06-2022, 06:26 PM)jafar Wrote: Fear itself is a catalyst, a catalyst for one to discover it's opposite, courage.
Fear is a tool, commonly used by STS, to control other self out of their own free will.
However fear only work towards certain limit, in which after reaching it's limit, boosting fear will only transmuted into courage.
Thus actually the best action upon faced with such catalyst is not to avoid it, but to face it head on!
What's happening in Ukraine is among an example of that.
How fear is now transmuting into courage.
“The fight is here; I need ammunition! not a ride”
-- Zelensky, responding to an offer from United States for safe route out of the country.
Red Chakra blockage are being released en masse.
And it's back firing to those who spread the fear.
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - IndigoSalvia - 03-06-2022
I found a couple of Quo sessions which elaborate on war.
Quote:The reason that the so-called disaster is found to have a silver lining is simply that your peoples, beneath the veneer of those decisions made by few which affect the culture or the experience of all, are as the rind of dead energy that is enclosing a very fresh fruit that has been growing from the inside out and is coming to a state of ripeness. Consequently those who are in power at this time, being more of a service-to-self tribe, shall we say, create the apparent history, the apparent news, the apparent on-going story of your peoples. Whereas the true story of your peoples is that story that moves from the heart, that moves from the seed of the fruit that has ripened within the rind of militarized thinking that infects your planet at this time. The inner fruit is healthy. And in times of disaster the rind of militaristic thinking is chipped away and people suddenly become aware that they are alive and in considerable and substantial opposition in feeling and in mind to those militaristic actions which tend to be the agenda of the day for any group of those who hold power at any time. https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2003/0316
This image of a sweet, fresh, loving fruit under the 'militaristic' rind reminds me to look for the charitable and generous acts that many engage in right now. The great humanitarian efforts underway to help one another. And there are many, many people coming together to help in many different ways.
In another session (https://www.llresearch.org/channeling/2007/0121), Quo discusses the metaphysical side of killing another. It seems like a more nuanced approach which considers the energies of one's intentions -- this is what determines STO or STS.
And, Quo discusses how - to relieve a karmic bond (a debt for killing, for instance) - we must only forgive ourselves.
Quote:the wheels of karma are stopped not by the forgiveness of another but by the forgiveness of the self by the self.
Perhaps we can elevate those green-ray, unconditionally loving, or STO activities going on by focusing our gaze upon them.
What are some heart-warming stories you have encountered?
Stories of people staying in animal sanctuaries, zoos, and shelters to care for animals until they can safely be transported.
People hanging signs to the Russian soldiers appealing to human kindness: we are your family (or something like that).
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - IndigoSalvia - 03-06-2022
Here's another quote that caught my attention. For context, Quo discusses intentions versus actions in terms of polarity and metaphysical terms.
Quote:Quo: At this level of consideration, one is not looking at the facts on the surface. “Who did what to whom?” is not a consideration here. For at this level, each entity is dwelling within its own completely whole and three-dimensional creation.
This reminds me of the discussion on another thread about what we see, we are; and what we are, we see. We each see a unique illusion: this is "our own completely whole and three-dimensional creation."
RE: The current Ukraine crisis... - jafar - 03-07-2022
IndigoSalvia Wrote:If one stays and fights, possibly kills another, I wonder what kind of blockage, energetic ramifications, karma that may bring about.
As long as it's not driven by hatred/revenge towards others (Green blockage) or ego trip (Yellow blockage) then it will not caused any blockage.
By transmuting fear as catalyst for courage, I do not limit to merely inter-nationality war (such as the topic on this thread).
But also includes:
- Standing up to a bully in school.
- Standing up to district Mafia who asked for 'protection money'.
- Standing up to abusive husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend
- Standing up to abusive bosses / superior
- Standing up to abusive clients / business partners.
And thousands of other context.
When one avoid the 'fear catalyst' as (usually) offered by STS, it will continue to come again, again and again, before one finally transmute it and found courage.
Give the Mafia your 'protection money' and I guarantee you next week, month, quarter they will ask again for more.
Give Putin Ukraine and I guarantee you he will ask for (at least) Moldova and Finland.
Finland, Sweden brush off Moscow’s warning on joining NATO
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-united-states-moscow-sweden-finland-38bc14feac1d35c4c86dcb710b44f60c