+- Bring4th (https://www.bring4th.org/forums)
+-- Forum: Bring4th Studies (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Spiritual Development & Metaphysical Matters (https://www.bring4th.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Compassion through social strife (/showthread.php?tid=18308)
RE: Compassion through social strife - Bring4th_Austin - 06-02-2020
(05-31-2020, 11:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: ...
Compassion however comes in at the point where Patton couldnt bring it in - forgiving those who are actually repressing others. The positive entity must not direct hate towards the entities - even if s/he is actually fighting them in a war. The positive entity must not see those entities as lower than itself, and itself higher than those entities. And positive entity must do what its positive polarity requires at that given point in time.
...
There is another lesson in this for those of higher vibration - of blue and higher. Understanding the situation like explained above, seeing the motives of those who are interacting, understanding the dance that is being played.
unity, I have always admired your deep intellect and knowledge, and how that has always centered around the deconstruction of the innately distorted structures of society. As a person who agrees with basically everything you have said, I apologize if these questions seem trivial:
Much of what you highlight is an examination of the external workings of our society (an accurate examination, in my eyes). I sometimes have trouble squaring the idea that what you are describing is an objective reality - something that is true no matter what people personally believe - against the idea that our external world is a reflection of our internal world. Where do you see this examination of the external world intersecting with your own internal world? How sure are you that you are correct in your perceptions, and why are you so sure? Where does your confidence of your own perception come from? Do you believe that the objective world exists as it does without influence from your own internal world?
Thank you for the thought put into your post.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Diana - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 02:53 AM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:(05-31-2020, 11:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: ...
Compassion however comes in at the point where Patton couldnt bring it in - forgiving those who are actually repressing others. The positive entity must not direct hate towards the entities - even if s/he is actually fighting them in a war. The positive entity must not see those entities as lower than itself, and itself higher than those entities. And positive entity must do what its positive polarity requires at that given point in time.
...
There is another lesson in this for those of higher vibration - of blue and higher. Understanding the situation like explained above, seeing the motives of those who are interacting, understanding the dance that is being played.
unity, I have always admired your deep intellect and knowledge, and how that has always centered around the deconstruction of the innately distorted structures of society. As a person who agrees with basically everything you have said, I apologize if these questions seem trivial:
Austin, you sound just like Don.
(06-02-2020, 02:53 AM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Much of what you highlight is an examination of the external workings of our society (an accurate examination, in my eyes). I sometimes have trouble squaring the idea that what you are describing is an objective reality - something that is true no matter what people personally believe - against the idea that our external world is a reflection of our internal world. Where do you see this examination of the external world intersecting with your own internal world? How sure are you that you are correct in your perceptions, and why are you so sure? Where does your confidence of your own perception come from? Do you believe that the objective world exists as it does without influence from your own internal world?
Thank you for the thought put into your post.
unity100: I, too, am interested in your response to Austin's questions.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Sacred Fool - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 02:29 AM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:(05-31-2020, 02:21 PM)peregrine Wrote:
On the topic of catalyst in general, sometimes events yank us down to a place beneath ground level where we feel more able to sense, yet less able to move.
This can evoke emotions such as self-pity and dissatisfaction until some degree of reflection leads to the discovery that movement there is not actuated by physical gestures, but by focus of desire.
At that point, owing to the heightened ability to perceive, one has an enhanced opportunity to move consciousness towards what one becomes increasing aware that one desires...whatever that may happen to be.
So, there's a choice: stuckness or allowing consciousness to focus in novel ways.
Largely, the catalyst will take care of itself.....and greater crystallization of consciousness will either be compelling or not. Either one learns to travel upon wings of desire towards the Sacred Self or not at that particular point in one's wandering.
I can feel a resonance with your words, but my intellectual mind is struggling to grasp what this process looks like on an individual level. Do you have an idea of what a "focus of desire" or "allowing consciousness to focus in novel ways" looks like in an outward sense? I know this might be a pointless question, given the infinite expressions of the Creator, but perhaps you could invoke a personal example. I appreciate your wisdom in recognizing the grand process at play here.
You've struck your head on the main issue here, I would say. It's a process where the intellect goes to the back seat and doesn't grasp ahold of anything because the medium is fluid. What does it feel like? It feels like transformation. What does it look like outwardly? Not much. What does "transformation" mean? It means shifting into a more liquescent medium and allowing form to change. It's an wholly internal experience...it is not intellectual. It is feminine in nature, a kind of rebirth, a re-crystallization. It's as if you pass through a doorway and much of "you" remains behind on the other side of the threshold. The "you" that crosses over is a lighter, less encumbered version of "you" which has clearer vision and a less confused sense of the heart's desire. There is no driver's seat as such, but there is an opportunity to allow that Sacred Space where love is most alive to be your guide.
How can I tell you what that looks like on the outside? It looks like a guy sitting there looking at you, waiting for you to see and visit within. And that guy looks a lot like you.
Why don't you ask Q'uo some time why they never give personal examples of such things?
Hmmmm. Now I'm wondering why I even bother trying to discuss this at all with a person for whom it's a purely imaginative idea. It's like trying to send an email to a deaf person about what Beethoven sounds like. Regardless of anything I can possibly type, the other is left swimming in the darkness, not knowing which direction could bring them closer to experiencing this for themselves.
Look at the depth of despair you have brought me to, B4Austin!!! WOE IS ME!!!!! <sniffle, sniffle>
Hey, wait a second. I'm lightening up a bit.....I'm seeing Austin grinning and laughing at my melodramatic silliness. I see that his forehead is deformed like some South American tribesman and that he is going through a long, long process of it returning to its natural shape....and I see that this momentary dialogue is just blip on the trajectory of that process. I know that all is well, that he will reach his goal in due course and that he will be an happy little camper at the conclusion thereof.
And they all lived happily ever after. And they all found Peace, dude.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Diana - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 11:11 AM)peregrine Wrote: You've struck your head on the main issue here, I would say. It's a process where the intellect goes to the back seat and doesn't grasp ahold of anything because the medium is fluid. What does it feel like? It feels like transformation. What does it look like outwardly? Not much. What does "transformation" mean? It means shifting into a more liquescent medium and allowing form to change. It's an wholly internal experience...it is not intellectual. It is feminine in nature, a kind of rebirth, a re-crystallization. It's as if you pass through a doorway and much of "you" remains behind on the other side of the threshold. The "you" that crosses over is a lighter, less encumbered version of "you" which has clearer vision and a less confused sense of the heart's desire. There is no driver's seat as such, but there is an opportunity to allow that Sacred Space where love is most alive to be your guide.
How can I tell you what that looks like on the outside? It looks like a guy sitting there looking at you, waiting for you to see and visit within. And that guy looks a lot like you.
Awesome, peregrine.
I love this.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Sacred Fool - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 11:25 AM)Diana Wrote: Awesome, peregrine.
You have impeccable taste, Diana.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Diana - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 11:30 AM)peregrine Wrote:(06-02-2020, 11:25 AM)Diana Wrote: Awesome, peregrine.
You have impeccable taste, Diana.
LOL
RE: Compassion through social strife - flofrog - 06-02-2020
Thank you Austin for all your comments..
I hope this thread doesn't disappear as it is so important to listen to what you all feel and think and process
RE: Compassion through social strife - Minyatur - 06-02-2020
It might help to remind yourself that everything that occurs in this world is love and light. The confused self sees darkness, all the while all of it is a complex play of light.
To align yourself with this I would suggest revisiting what is said to be the only truth, or rather law, in the material and read anew its eloquent description in the very first session. As there is no multiplicity to the Law of One, there is neither any multiplicity to truth. All is truly well at all times and this is true in the most fundamental possible way.
For me, it's always about doing the circle of my emotions and touching unity anew. There is no way I know of to simply always be in the constant awareness of unity, yet it forever remains there to do the journey toward it with different portions of yourself. When you do so, it always feels like a great moment in time, one where you release control, expectation and instead see truly that all is well and as it should be. It is not your duty to wish others to be otherwise than what they are and this is why the path is one of acceptance. All things are truly acceptable in the proper time for each entity and it may be helpful to acknowledge this. This is key for compassion.
Let's say that our Logos in its experiments with the veil, in order to offer a more vivid, varied and intense experience, has done quite a good job.
![[Image: 43qi2c.jpg]](https://i.imgflip.com/43qi2c.jpg)
RE: Compassion through social strife - AnthroHeart - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 01:59 PM)Minyatur Wrote: It might help to remind yourself that everything that occurs in this world is love and light. The confused self sees darkness, all the while all of it is a complex play of light.
To align yourself with this I would suggest revisiting what is said to be the only truth, or rather law, in the material and read anew its eloquent description in the very first session. As there is no multiplicity to the Law of One, there is neither any multiplicity to truth. All is truly well at all times and this is true in the most fundamental possible way.
For me, it's always about doing the circle of my emotions and touching unity anew. There is no way I know of to simply always be in the constant awareness of unity, yet it forever remains there to do the journey toward it with different portions of yourself. When you do so, it always feels like a great moment in time, one where you release control, expectation and instead see truly that all is well and as it should be. It is not your duty to wish others to be otherwise than what they are and this is why the path is one of acceptance. All things are truly acceptable in the proper time for each entity and it may be helpful to acknowledge this. This is key for compassion.
Let's say that our Logos in its experiments with the veil, in order to offer a more vivid, varied and intense experience, has done quite a good job.
Knowing my experience in my journey so far, I'd call us Adventurers.
RE: Compassion through social strife - unity100 - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 02:53 AM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:(05-31-2020, 11:30 PM)unity100 Wrote: ...
Compassion however comes in at the point where Patton couldnt bring it in - forgiving those who are actually repressing others. The positive entity must not direct hate towards the entities - even if s/he is actually fighting them in a war. The positive entity must not see those entities as lower than itself, and itself higher than those entities. And positive entity must do what its positive polarity requires at that given point in time.
...
There is another lesson in this for those of higher vibration - of blue and higher. Understanding the situation like explained above, seeing the motives of those who are interacting, understanding the dance that is being played.
unity, I have always admired your deep intellect and knowledge, and how that has always centered around the deconstruction of the innately distorted structures of society.
what nice words - followed by a manifestation of the understanding of how distorted the society actually is...
Quote:Much of what you highlight is an examination of the external workings of our society (an accurate examination, in my eyes). I sometimes have trouble squaring the idea that what you are describing is an objective reality...
Well, there isnt a non-objective reality. There isnt a 'non real' reality. 'Reality' is this, and it is as real as to the extent we discovered. Indeed, there are likely deeper happenings happening in an infinite number of planes, related to what is happening in reality, when anything happens in this reality. But they do not change the fact that something that is happening here and now is happening here and now.
I see this 'This is an illusion' proposition which is made so frequently in spiritual circles non applicable, non productive. "We are all one, in fact. You were always here (referring to an infinitely future point in time)" etc.
Indeed, everything is always one, and whatever given entity was always at point infinity... but... that entity was also at that other point in time viewing that particular state of infinity which is labeled as an 'illusion'. And actually, that entity is still at that point in time back in 'reality' when situation X was happening and the entity was looking at it. That entity is part of that particular location in that particular universe in that particular octave inside the infinity. And whenever the entity looks back at that point from point infinity, it will see its 'narrower' self there, looking at that particular happening.
"Kilroy was here" - like in the famous graffiti.
Yeah, Kilroy was there. And Kilroy is still there, at that point in infinity. Kilroy is also at an infinite number of points in infinity, as it progresses inside infinity. In fact, Kilroy is at all those points at the same time.
I feel at times this "This is an illusion" is utilized as a means to escape the heaviness and suffering of this reality - ie 'None of this is real'. That would be counterproductive, of course. But the entity must utilize such escapes to the extent it needs to escape.
Quote:...something that is true no matter what people personally believe - against the idea that our external world is a reflection of our internal world. Where do you see this examination of the external world intersecting with your own internal world? How sure are you that you are correct in your perceptions, and why are you so sure? Where does your confidence of your own perception come from? Do you believe that the objective world exists as it does without influence from your own internal world?
All of the worlds, internal and external, intersect. Like overlapping spheres, or, better, like overlapping vibrations of concentrated vibration sources. The ensuing vibration in any given subset (larger or smaller) is the result of all vibrations combined.
All of those vibrations are real. Together they constitute the state of existence, a part of the nature of infinity as it exists at that point in time at that location. It will forever exist there at that location and time. Actually, it forever existed there - just you were not looking at it. Now that you are looking at it, you see it. A few moments later, you will be looking at another point, and that earlier state/locale of infinity which you looked at will be in your 'past'.
Remember how Ra says about later points in 6, 7d how at some point 'looking back' ends, and the entity leaves its former identity behind. This means that the later states of the entity was looking back to a point in time that is behind. Except its own 3d version existed at that point in time, whereas its 6d higher self version was looking back at its own 'past' self. Like points in a circle.
But just like the infinite entity narrows itself and looks at certain places and points in time inside infinity, manifesting as 'you' here and now, you also look at narrower sections of that locale/time of infinity, seeing different aspects of it. You may be concentrated on what you feel about that particular person doing X, or the thought/emotion invoked by another person doing Y while you were doing Z. Or you may be looking at the general circumstance and as a result being in a particular state of mind/body/spirit.
Spiritual, mental, bodily biases play a great part in what entities can see. Some look at the event and 'see' that 'terrorists' are being repressed, and 'fail' to see that they are contradicting what they have been saying about freedom of speech, freedom to move a few weeks ago. Some may look at the event and see that centuries old slavery system still continuing to be the basis of his modern society. Some may look at the event and see different things.
The reality is that everyone looks at every single event and sees a combination of multiple things at the same time.
The actual reality is that, there are infinite interactions, infinite refractions going on outside and inside in every entity, and every vibration interacts with each other, creating those infinite refractions. The inside world affects the outside reality as much as the outside reality affects the inside. It is a two way street. Of course, this may be modified by closeness/openness rate of entities' inner worlds and the strength of the events (vibrations) in the outside world.
Any particular entity may choose to 'limit' its viewpoint to see a certain subset of those refractions due to its biases, and believe that what it chose to see is the reality. But this would just constitute a subset of reality.
In this particular case, someone looking at the unfolding events in disbelief and thinking that 'this is not actually happening' and choosing to believe it to an extent, is like looking at the vibrations which involve the desire of having things happen differently at that point in time. He chooses to limit itself to looking at that section of the reality, because he is unable to accept/stomach/realize that the entities, happenings which he cannot accept are parts of greater whole.
But the actual reality is what it is. Reality, more accurately a collection of all the vibrations present at a given point in time and a locale inside infinity, exists as it is with its infinitely varied aspects. But, its general nature is manifested in the broader picture you see - the more wider you look and see and acknowledge all the variations and vibrations in their truer natures, the more accurate and wholesome picture of the reality you are able to see.
A 'bigger', 'more real' reality of course exists. The police who is repressing another fellow man in this particular universe, is not repressing anyone in another universe. In another, he is a protester. And the innocent bystander who is unjustly beaten down in this universe is a vicious instigator in another universe, while in another, he doesnt want to have anything to do with any of these.
But we are not looking at those other universes. We are looking at this particular universe. So, the subset of true reality which exists at this point in time is as it is.
...
The reality is what it is. Internal, external combined. You are who/what you are. That other person is who/what he is. The entire happening is what it is. Acceptance of all of those as they are at that point in time with all their facets, not only polarizes one positively, but also allows the person to reach better understanding of the true natures of all involved.
One can indeed look wider, move his viewpoint towards point infinity and see everything. But that wont happen while looking at but not being able to accept this existing reality.
RE: Compassion through social strife - unity100 - 06-02-2020
(06-02-2020, 10:33 AM)Diana Wrote: unity100: I, too, am interested in your response to Austin's questions.
Freshly responded above.
RE: Compassion through social strife - David_1 - 06-03-2020
When the demonic Antifa thugs had burned down so many buildings and said that they were getting bored with trashing city centers, they said they would next burn down suburbia.
Yes, they arrived with no police response.
But there was a massive gun owner response. The weapons were taken from the thugs, and the burn-down didn’t happen.
I praise God for the compassionate gun owners who were able to take the crowbars and other weapons at gunpoint and maintain peace.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Diana - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 09:00 AM)David_1 Wrote: When the demonic Antifa thugs had burned down so many buildings and said that they were getting bored with trashing city centers, they said they would next burn down suburbia.
Yes, they arrived with no police response.
But there was a massive gun owner response. The weapons were taken from the thugs, and the burn-down didn’t happen.
I praise God for the compassionate gun owners who were able to take the crowbars and other weapons at gunpoint and maintain peace.
Wow. Where did this happen?
RE: Compassion through social strife - Agua - 06-03-2020
removed
RE: Compassion through social strife - Spaced - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 10:21 AM)Diana Wrote:(06-03-2020, 09:00 AM)David_1 Wrote: When the demonic Antifa thugs had burned down so many buildings and said that they were getting bored with trashing city centers, they said they would next burn down suburbia.
Yes, they arrived with no police response.
But there was a massive gun owner response. The weapons were taken from the thugs, and the burn-down didn’t happen.
I praise God for the compassionate gun owners who were able to take the crowbars and other weapons at gunpoint and maintain peace.
Wow. Where did this happen?
It didn't
RE: Compassion through social strife - Bring4th_Austin - 06-03-2020
(06-02-2020, 11:11 AM)peregrine Wrote: You've struck your head on the main issue here, I would say. It's a process where the intellect goes to the back seat and doesn't grasp ahold of anything because the medium is fluid. What does it feel like? It feels like transformation. What does it look like outwardly? Not much. What does "transformation" mean? It means shifting into a more liquescent medium and allowing form to change. It's an wholly internal experience...it is not intellectual. It is feminine in nature, a kind of rebirth, a re-crystallization. It's as if you pass through a doorway and much of "you" remains behind on the other side of the threshold. The "you" that crosses over is a lighter, less encumbered version of "you" which has clearer vision and a less confused sense of the heart's desire. There is no driver's seat as such, but there is an opportunity to allow that Sacred Space where love is most alive to be your guide.
How can I tell you what that looks like on the outside? It looks like a guy sitting there looking at you, waiting for you to see and visit within. And that guy looks a lot like you.
Why don't you ask Q'uo some time why they never give personal examples of such things?
Hmmmm. Now I'm wondering why I even bother trying to discuss this at all with a person for whom it's a purely imaginative idea. It's like trying to send an email to a deaf person about what Beethoven sounds like. Regardless of anything I can possibly type, the other is left swimming in the darkness, not knowing which direction could bring them closer to experiencing this for themselves.
Look at the depth of despair you have brought me to, B4Austin!!! WOE IS ME!!!!! <sniffle, sniffle>
Hey, wait a second. I'm lightening up a bit.....I'm seeing Austin grinning and laughing at my melodramatic silliness. I see that his forehead is deformed like some South American tribesman and that he is going through a long, long process of it returning to its natural shape....and I see that this momentary dialogue is just blip on the trajectory of that process. I know that all is well, that he will reach his goal in due course and that he will be an happy little camper at the conclusion thereof.
And they all lived happily ever after. And they all found Peace, dude.
I do appreciate the care and seeming concern you seem to have for me personally, peregrine - though I can't say I can fully register your assessment of my own processes and internal world. I never meant to imply that I have never personally experienced a significant spiritual transformation. Perhaps my questions make it seem as though I am approaching this as though it is all "purely an imaginative idea." I'll let you hold your conclusions and do what you will with them.
But to make my intentions explicit, however ill-formed my questions might be, I'm just hoping to create a space in this thread for us to reflect our internal worlds, to hold each other in understanding and compassion, and to aid each other in understanding our processes in this current moment of social disharmony.
Either way, thank you for sharing your wisdom.
PS.
For what it's worth, you gave a pretty clear and inspiring answer to my questions in your first paragraph, while simultaneously claiming an answer couldn't be given.
My request for examples was perhaps hoping you'd share a moment of poignant spiritual transformation you have experienced personally - only if comfortable.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Bring4th_Austin - 06-03-2020
(06-02-2020, 01:59 PM)Minyatur Wrote: It might help to remind yourself that everything that occurs in this world is love and light. The confused self sees darkness, all the while all of it is a complex play of light.
To align yourself with this I would suggest revisiting what is said to be the only truth, or rather law, in the material and read anew its eloquent description in the very first session. As there is no multiplicity to the Law of One, there is neither any multiplicity to truth. All is truly well at all times and this is true in the most fundamental possible way.
For me, it's always about doing the circle of my emotions and touching unity anew. There is no way I know of to simply always be in the constant awareness of unity, yet it forever remains there to do the journey toward it with different portions of yourself. When you do so, it always feels like a great moment in time, one where you release control, expectation and instead see truly that all is well and as it should be. It is not your duty to wish others to be otherwise than what they are and this is why the path is one of acceptance. All things are truly acceptable in the proper time for each entity and it may be helpful to acknowledge this. This is key for compassion.
This is very well put, thank you. I believe it in my heart and mind. Sometimes, though, when resting in this understanding, a small voice will pop up. It will raise concern that this perspective, while valid, may also be a tool for bypassing an essential part of the experience we're hoping to have here on Earth. We have volunteered to experience and witness pain - what do we do with that pain, then?
I have two conflicting ideas of the process.
One is, by "doing the circle" of emotions and "touching unity anew," we are bringing the sacred light of unity and the Creator to that pain. To find unity amidst the difficulty is a powerful act and transforms not just ourselves, but the world.
The other idea is that, by witnessing pain and then defaulting back to unity, we are "averting the gaze," in a sense. Perhaps the pain has more to tell us that we are no hearing by intentionally diverting our attention from it?
I suspect that it's not the same for everyone in every situation. In this situation we're currently in, for my part, I'm feeling as though I would be missing something essential if I simply allowed myself to rest in the broader perspective of harmonious unity without engaging more in the collective pain being experienced.
RE: Compassion through social strife - David_1 - 06-03-2020
Spaced wrote, “It didn’t”
What you mean is, “I am not aware of that, and I have not read about it.”
I forgive you.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Bring4th_Austin - 06-03-2020
(06-02-2020, 08:44 PM)unity100 Wrote: ...
Thank you so much for the effort and energy put into your response. It (mostly) makes sense to me at this moment, and it gives a lot to contemplate. If I had more spare energy, I'd love to engage in discussion about the metaphysics of subjective/objective perception that you outline. But for now I simply offer gratitude for the generosity of your post.
---
I do think this idea is worthy of highlighting, and relevant to understanding internal process of compassion in times of social strife, though:
(06-02-2020, 08:44 PM)unity100 Wrote: I feel at times this "This is an illusion" is utilized as a means to escape the heaviness and suffering of this reality - ie 'None of this is real'. That would be counterproductive, of course. But the entity must utilize such escapes to the extent it needs to escape.
Interestingly, I wrote my previous post about using appeals to unity to avoid pain before reading this part. Thank you for sharing - I completely agree. Our old friend zenmaster introduced me to the idea of spiritual bypassing, and it has been one of the most useful spiritual perspectives I have encountered on my journey. It is the idea that spirituality, even very valid and real spiritual concepts (like you described), can be used to avoid the experiences we need for true, essential healing and transformation.
But also like you say, entities utilize such to the extent they need. It can be difficult discussing the idea of spiritual bypassing without sounding like it is a condemnation of the act. I think sometimes it is necessary. If we attempted to absorb all of the pain and disharmony of our own personal lives, let alone of the world, all at once, there's no way we'd be able to actually utilize any of it as catalyst for spiritual growth. Escaping and bypassing can be unhealthy, but it can also sometimes be necessary. Such things are sometimes called a "crutch," but when your leg is broken and trying to heal, a crutch aids that process. It seems to be a gentle skill, trying to dismantle our own constructs that are preventing us from experiencing the catalyst we need.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Bring4th_Austin - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 09:00 AM)David_1 Wrote: When the demonic Antifa thugs had burned down so many buildings and said that they were getting bored with trashing city centers, they said they would next burn down suburbia.
Yes, they arrived with no police response.
But there was a massive gun owner response. The weapons were taken from the thugs, and the burn-down didn’t happen.
I praise God for the compassionate gun owners who were able to take the crowbars and other weapons at gunpoint and maintain peace.
David, I understand you have a perception of what is happening that you seem quite sure of. I'm sure it's not a surprise to you that many others have a different perception, and many as confident as you are that theirs is supreme.
Somewhere in there is the truth of what's happening. But, if I might make a request (to you or anyone engaging with this particular point), I would very much like for the discussion in this thread to bring the focus inward as much as possible. That is, as we perceive these things as happening in our reality, I'd love a space where we don't argue about what is right or what is true, but rather how are my current experiences informing my processes of compassion?
What is your internal world like right now, David? Do you see any possibility for growth, or growing compassion, or clearer perception?
This is simply my sincere request - that details of current events are only invoked insofar as we are using them to reflect on our internal world and processes, and we take ownership over those things instead of projecting our feelings outward.
(Again, not that discussing or disagreeing on details isn't proper - I'd just prefer to create a different space in this discussion.)
RE: Compassion through social strife - Spaced - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 03:06 PM)David_1 Wrote: Spaced wrote, “It didn’t”
What you mean is, “I am not aware of that, and I have not read about it.”
I forgive you.
No, what I mean is that you are passing off lies as truth without proof to villainize the anti-fascist movement.
The FBI has concluded that antifa was not involved in the violence at the protests. https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-no-intelligence-antifa-weekend-violence-george-floyd-protests-2020-6
RE: Compassion through social strife - Spaced - 06-03-2020
I'm sorry if I'm not being loving enough when communicating this point, but when you refer to protesters (99.9% of which are peaceful) as "demonic Antifa thugs" you are delegitimizing their entire movement by creating a bogeyman. You are also dehumanizing (or in your case, literally demonizing) the protesters themselves and creating seperation.
What you are seeing is a popular reaction to decades (centuries really) of oppression. It's an expression of pain and suffering that has reached it's boiling point. There are protests in all 50 states. This isn't the work of "demonic antifa thugs" but of everyday American citizens.
If the nation wants to heal the voices of the oppressed have to be heard, instead they are being violently silenced by the police who would rather hospitalize and arrest thousands of American citizens than prosecute their own who commit murder in broad daylight.
You can talk about love and forgiveness all day but it's worthless if you are blind to the reality of the situation.
Edit: sorry I realize my posts are going against the spirit of this thread please feel free to delete them. I would like to add that I am very hopeful about everything that is happening now, that this catalyst will not be ignored.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Sacred Fool - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 02:29 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: etc.
Yeah, we're not looping in convergent spirals here.
No hard feelings. Carry on.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Ozziwtf - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 03:17 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:(06-03-2020, 09:00 AM)David_1 Wrote: When the demonic Antifa thugs had burned down so many buildings and said that they were getting bored with trashing city centers, they said they would next burn down suburbia.
Yes, they arrived with no police response.
But there was a massive gun owner response. The weapons were taken from the thugs, and the burn-down didn’t happen.
I praise God for the compassionate gun owners who were able to take the crowbars and other weapons at gunpoint and maintain peace.
David, I understand you have a perception of what is happening that you seem quite sure of. I'm sure it's not a surprise to you that many others have a different perception, and many as confident as you are that theirs is supreme.
Somewhere in there is the truth of what's happening. But, if I might make a request (to you or anyone engaging with this particular point), I would very much like for the discussion in this thread to bring the focus inward as much as possible. That is, as we perceive these things as happening in our reality, I'd love a space where we don't argue about what is right or what is true, but rather how are my current experiences informing my processes of compassion?
What is your internal world like right now, David? Do you see any possibility for growth, or growing compassion, or clearer perception?
This is simply my sincere request - that details of current events are only invoked insofar as we are using them to reflect on our internal world and processes, and we take ownership over those things instead of projecting our feelings outward.
(Again, not that discussing or disagreeing on details isn't proper - I'd just prefer to create a different space in this discussion.)
It made me realize how foolish and dangerous compassion can be if it isn't balanced by wisdom.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Diana - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 03:17 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: Somewhere in there is the truth of what's happening. But, if I might make a request (to you or anyone engaging with this particular point), I would very much like for the discussion in this thread to bring the focus inward as much as possible. That is, as we perceive these things as happening in our reality, I'd love a space where we don't argue about what is right or what is true, but rather how are my current experiences informing my processes of compassion?
What is your internal world like right now, David? Do you see any possibility for growth, or growing compassion, or clearer perception?
This is simply my sincere request - that details of current events are only invoked insofar as we are using them to reflect on our internal world and processes, and we take ownership over those things instead of projecting our feelings outward.
(Again, not that discussing or disagreeing on details isn't proper - I'd just prefer to create a different space in this discussion.)
After many years of engaging in discussions here, I don't think that much control can be exerted on where a discussion goes, request or demand that it might be. My advice: allow people to express themselves. Then, stay on point with your part of the discussion. I have done this countless times. You can bring things back to point and not empower conflict. Find the love beneath it, so to speak, and move forward with the ideas you have in mind to explore.
The time to step in with control is when someone violates the guidelines; or, moving part of a discussion to another thread if it's warranted.
Just my friendly perspective.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Agua - 06-03-2020
removed
RE: Compassion through social strife - Glow - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 03:17 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote:(06-03-2020, 09:00 AM)David_1 Wrote: When the demonic Antifa thugs had burned down so many buildings and said that they were getting bored with trashing city centers, they said they would next burn down suburbia.
Yes, they arrived with no police response.
But there was a massive gun owner response. The weapons were taken from the thugs, and the burn-down didn’t happen.
I praise God for the compassionate gun owners who were able to take the crowbars and other weapons at gunpoint and maintain peace.
David, I understand you have a perception of what is happening that you seem quite sure of. I'm sure it's not a surprise to you that many others have a different perception, and many as confident as you are that theirs is supreme.
Somewhere in there is the truth of what's happening. But, if I might make a request (to you or anyone engaging with this particular point), I would very much like for the discussion in this thread to bring the focus inward as much as possible. That is, as we perceive these things as happening in our reality, I'd love a space where we don't argue about what is right or what is true, but rather how are my current experiences informing my processes of compassion?
What is your internal world like right now, David? Do you see any possibility for growth, or growing compassion, or clearer perception?
This is simply my sincere request - that details of current events are only invoked insofar as we are using them to reflect on our internal world and processes, and we take ownership over those things instead of projecting our feelings outward.
(Again, not that discussing or disagreeing on details isn't proper - I'd just prefer to create a different space in this discussion.)
Thank you for teaching me something here Austin.
I sometimes get frustrated with these debates but I appreciate you role modelling perhaps a more excepting and inclusive response.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Agua - 06-03-2020
removed
RE: Compassion through social strife - Sacred Fool - 06-03-2020
(06-03-2020, 08:01 PM)Agua Wrote: I believe compassion cannot be „offered“ and it cannot be „made“ (although you probably didnt mean it that way).
I think compassion is something that either occurs or does not occur, it cannot be forced, if it doesnt.
.............................
Apart from that, I am not even sure if compassion really is what the situation calls for.
I take a much simpler view of this, myself. For me, either a person's energy system is adequately free to be in a state general compassion for other selves much of the time or it is blocked in various ways which keeps it at a, so to speak, less enlightened level of functioning. For instance, you mentioned powerlessness, and there's anger and a great variety of other such energies which can clog up a person's energetic apparatus to the point where compassion disappears when one feels under pressure.
It's just my personal view, but as a one who feels some obligation to be of service to this struggling planet and her suffering inhabitants, I feel that compassion is absolutely called for now, not by faking it, but by freeing up oneself to allow the love of the One Creator to shine through one in these dark times.
And I don't say this as a matter of rhetoric. I endeavour to live this way by devoting a large amount of my time to releasing my fears at various levels, as well as other attendant blockages such as arrogance, meanness, etc. I also endeavour to channel Divine energies from my spiritual connections through me into our little planet.
Of course, if you read my posts on these forums, the above may sound surprising. (I.e., I surely do not view arrogance, for example, only through the rear view mirror.) I'm not claiming perfection, by any means, only dedication.
RE: Compassion through social strife - Diana - 06-03-2020
@ peregrine: I think you and agua were actually saying the same thing.