(09-25-2018, 12:17 AM)Relaxo Wrote: hey Glow - from hours of reading - there are years of threads where people purposely try to mess with or hurt others - or have a strange or confused understanding of LOO... or are so angry they contaminate others.

It looks like you can get help here - but I also see interactions and discussions that are abusive - some even sickening
seems it can be a place where a seeker could feel terribly alone - and also - who knows what someone could privately pm them?

an open hearted but seriously wounded person would be exactly the combination for successful psychological or psychic attack

I wanted to share this place with friends- but it's a bit embarrassing how much snideness is here - and parts of it feel dangerous...
of course you can just send love to the negative 'offers' and back away... which I guess is why so many people leave...
but that's a pity ....such a waste

Bring 4th seems equal parts sanctuary - minefield

I agree with CA's friend that it seems there are big 'duty of care' issues (to make sure people don't actively hurt others) but moderators don't intervene and instead let slide

perhaps - because Don himself committed suicide - L/L Research & mods have a blind spot about harm minimisation?
and as they view all that occurs here as 'catalyst' - and avoid 'infringement'..?   :(

perhaps they need to post an introductory disclaimer for this place

"enter at your own risk"
?

(09-24-2018, 10:27 PM)Glow Wrote:

(09-23-2018, 10:47 PM)blossom Wrote: ...

I know there are times here when people "play" dark games with one another, mind games, clever manipulative thought patterns to freak someone (anyone) out yet make it seem unexplainable to others so one who's mind is broken and traumatized can't redeem itself because nobody will believe or understand.

---

I have honestly never seen that. Am I oblivious or is it open to interpretation. I think most conflicts are simply wounds bumping each other. I'd be surprised if people were purposely trying to mess with people, but maybe I avoid those threads before they get to that point. If you see one point it out. I am feeling a bit clueless.

(09-25-2018, 03:20 AM)Aion Wrote: Sorry to hear he's still not doing better, hopefully with time he will open up to your help.

Like I said I've been here awhile and I've seen a lot of different things going on. However, there are some things about the forum and L/L Research that I have observed. One is that the people who are physically involved with L/L and the members of the forum are fairly separate entities. Even most of the people who go to the yearly gatherings are not people who are on the forum. (Maybe cause others have picked up on the funky vibe...) In general I think that not a lot of attention is paid to moderation in terms of behaviour.

This is because, two, I have noticed that since the claim in the Ra Material that acceptance is the pathway to positivity has driven many to insist on absolute acceptance of all things, even atrocity. I think that part of the driver for this is the existence of the Hidden Hand material. I am not sure if you are familiar but if not then you should probably read it. I think it will give you an idea of what sort of energy is lingering around this place. It attempts to make acceptable all the evils of the world.

https://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_societies/hidden_hand_081018

I agree with you that there is a lot of confusion here and that darkness and light have been conflated with eachother. As far I am aware there is no one who has caused anyone else to actually commit suicide on the forum and the only previous member I am aware of to off themselves already had the tendency and it had nothing to do with the forum but there is no doubt that C_A is not the first individual to be troubled by the 'total acceptance is the way' narrative.

There's this idea that goes around that 'balance' or being 'positive' means accepting every horror that is before you. I don't agree with that. I think that the forum is stuck in the 'sinkhole of indifference' as some might put it. It's not really moving towards either polarity but rather spinning in circles caught in the middle. That's how it seems to me anyways.

I think that really what this forum is missing and what C_A needed but didn't get here was gentleness, softness and listening compassion. I certainly don't have a talent for being gentle, as you've already noted, but I do still try to help.

(09-25-2018, 03:33 AM)blossom Wrote:

(09-24-2018, 10:27 PM)Glow Wrote:

(09-23-2018, 10:47 PM)blossom Wrote: ...

I know there are times here when people "play" dark games with one another, mind games, clever manipulative thought patterns to freak someone (anyone) out yet make it seem unexplainable to others so one who's mind is broken and traumatized can't redeem itself because nobody will believe or understand.

---

I have honestly never seen that. Am I oblivious or is it open to interpretation. I think most conflicts are simply wounds bumping each other. I'd be surprised if people were purposely trying to mess with people, but maybe I avoid those threads before they get to that point. If you see one point it out. I am feeling a bit clueless.

Every time you see senseless posts or word play it's a display of power.

(09-25-2018, 10:23 AM)Glow Wrote:

(09-25-2018, 03:20 AM)Aion Wrote: Sorry to hear he's still not doing better, hopefully with time he will open up to your help.

Like I said I've been here awhile and I've seen a lot of different things going on. However, there are some things about the forum and L/L Research that I have observed. One is that the people who are physically involved with L/L and the members of the forum are fairly separate entities. Even most of the people who go to the yearly gatherings are not people who are on the forum. (Maybe cause others have picked up on the funky vibe...) In general I think that not a lot of attention is paid to moderation in terms of behaviour.

This is because, two, I have noticed that since the claim in the Ra Material that acceptance is the pathway to positivity has driven many to insist on absolute acceptance of all things, even atrocity. I think that part of the driver for this is the existence of the Hidden Hand material. I am not sure if you are familiar but if not then you should probably read it. I think it will give you an idea of what sort of energy is lingering around this place. It attempts to make acceptable all the evils of the world.

https://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_societies/hidden_hand_081018

I agree with you that there is a lot of confusion here and that darkness and light have been conflated with eachother. As far I am aware there is no one who has caused anyone else to actually commit suicide on the forum and the only previous member I am aware of to off themselves already had the tendency and it had nothing to do with the forum but there is no doubt that C_A is not the first individual to be troubled by the 'total acceptance is the way' narrative.

There's this idea that goes around that 'balance' or being 'positive' means accepting every horror that is before you. I don't agree with that. I think that the forum is stuck in the 'sinkhole of indifference' as some might put it. It's not really moving towards either polarity but rather spinning in circles caught in the middle. That's how it seems to me anyways.

I think that really what this forum is missing and what C_A needed but didn't get here was gentleness, softness and listening compassion. I certainly don't have a talent for being gentle, as you've already noted, but I do still try to help.

He did get that, only it was done via pm.
We talked a lot, even the day he left.

I would bet money other people also connected with him in a more nurturing way via pm.

(09-25-2018, 02:37 PM)Glow Wrote: Aion - I accept what you are saying. I know people here can be brutal with their words I have seen it. I don’t appologize or think I am wrong though in saying it’s wounds. I’m ok if that isn’t good enough for you. I think we should all attempt to be impeccable with our words.

1 of the four agreements that I think would also help every one to learn is exactly that.
Still there is no being perfect it just isn’t possible for all people in all their states of mind. Heck even CA could be pretty rough when he was hurt.

If we want to sleuth our issues Cainite left recently and as CA did he said goodbye to me and I really miss his presence around here too. Love him and I think he added a beautiful light to this place.

The energy here bothered him too but I don’t know what could have been done different. I’d like him back here but I obviously have no solution.

Life is hard and this place brings together lots of people finding life hard. Many cannot even open their hearts yet. Do they get banned because a lot of people would have been banned by now if that was the solution.

By the way I don’t think it’s anything like everyone for themselves, more no one against anyone.
I’ve been stuck up for before and I have stuck up for others. Maybe we need more of that or maybe it would just make people take sides vs trying to be open hearted and minded with everyone.

I’m going to leave this discussion because obviously I’m pretty damn fond of everyone here and all I can see is everyone’s beauty and wounds so this isn’t where I’m going to be helpful.

(09-25-2018, 05:47 PM)Glow Wrote: Btw I don’t think at least as long as I’ve been a member that you have at all contributed to bad vibes. the other stuff yes!

(09-25-2018, 05:47 PM)Glow Wrote: Btw I don’t think at least as long as I’ve been a member that you have at all contributed to bad vibes. the other stuff yes!

(09-25-2018, 02:41 PM)Spaced Wrote: Hello One of Love, I think your friend is very lucky to have someone like you in his life. I respect your honesty and willingness to crack the proverbial lid open and let the light in. 

This forum is a strange place. I have been around here for a long time and I used to have the energy to share my perspective more often but now I do not. It's too heavy and I got burnt out years ago, yet I'm still here aren't I? Strange that.

The Law of One still holds an important place in my heart. Would I recommend it to others? If they had expressed an interest in these kinds of philosophical topics I absolutely would. Would I recommend this forum? I would not.

I think one danger is that people connect to this material deeply and without a well developed BS meter (as you put it) and it can become an obsession. Furthermore, if they don't have the grounding of a stable "mundane" life it can lead one to be more and more disconnected from society. This forum can then substitute for that connection to society only to become an echo chamber for distorted understandings bouncing back and forth. This is not a forum full of healthy people, people here carry pain and confusion and can spread that pain and confusion to others (intentionally or not). I'm not above any of this by any stretch, I've shared some deeply confused things before and I've gotten into debates here that did nothing but spread anger and ill will. 

I think what keeps me around is that everyone was drawn here by a message of love and deep down that's what we all seek.

Anyhow, I'm not sure I have anything constructive to add other than to wish you both all the best. CA is a an intelligent and sensitive person, I hope he can find a way to live in peace. 

 

(09-25-2018, 02:56 PM)Aion Wrote:

(09-25-2018, 02:37 PM)Glow Wrote: Aion - I accept what you are saying. I know people here can be brutal with their words I have seen it. I don’t appologize or think I am wrong though in saying it’s wounds. I’m ok if that isn’t good enough for you. I think we should all attempt to be impeccable with our words.

1 of the four agreements that I think would also help every one to learn is exactly that.
Still there is no being perfect it just isn’t possible for all people in all their states of mind. Heck even CA could be pretty rough when he was hurt.

If we want to sleuth our issues Cainite left recently and as CA did he said goodbye to me and I really miss his presence around here too. Love him and I think he added a beautiful light to this place.

The energy here bothered him too but I don’t know what could have been done different. I’d like him back here but I obviously have no solution.

Life is hard and this place brings together lots of people finding life hard. Many cannot even open their hearts yet. Do they get banned because a lot of people would have been banned by now if that was the solution.

By the way I don’t think it’s anything like everyone for themselves, more no one against anyone.
I’ve been stuck up for before and I have stuck up for others. Maybe we need more of that or maybe it would just make people take sides vs trying to be open hearted and minded with everyone.

I’m going to leave this discussion because obviously I’m pretty damn fond of everyone here and all I can see is everyone’s beauty and wounds so this isn’t where I’m going to be helpful.

I think that everyone has their idealizations. I appreciate your viewpoint. However, I am still bothered that anytime somebody brings up a grievance it is 'neutralized' by this kind of language and philosophy. I know you mean well, but as you say yourself, you offer no solutions otherwise.

I think you have a kind heart and a strong sense of compassion and that is valuable to this community. The fact is I'm not a very 'fluffy' person so forgive me if sometimes my assessment of things is rather stark. I've seen people, my friends, become incredibly abused by groups of individuals claiming to be all about free love and self-acceptance, so I admit I have some biases in that regard. What people say and how people act are often two different things.

As you say, the first agreement would be a good lesson for many people.

Also, I have seen on this forum many, many, many times people pulling the 'nobody is responsible for your feelings/thoughts but you' card, so I can't say I agree with your assessment that there hasn't been a theme of everyone for themselves. I feel that your strong fondness for the people and the place definitely colours your view a bit. I also don't think there's anything wrong with that, since my views are also coloured by my experiences. I think that for myself I am often looking at the forum 'as a whole' but I feel often people are more referencing just their personal experience on the forum. I'm sure there are plenty of others who see it as a whole too though.

I feel like you might take what I am saying as 'being negative' or as saying negative things about the community. Quite the opposite actually, I am simply acknowledging our humanity. I haven't called anyone evil or tried to start a witch hunt, lol. However I have thought about the energy around this place a lot over the last 6 or 7 years so I admit I have some thoughts and opinions.

(09-25-2018, 03:36 PM)Aion Wrote: I think all I'm really trying to say is that with a bit of extra effort, maybe a little bit of care (speaking to myself too here), then perhaps this 'bad vibe' lingering around the forum could be lifted. I think that's what C_A wanted all along. However, I don't think that will happen so long as people are happy to just 'let things be'. Of course, though, that is a crux of what is claimed to be positive philosophy in the Ra Material, so I can't really see the members of the forum getting on board for any sort of organized effort towards change. People want to just do what they want to do and be left alone otherwise it seems.

Heck, the fact that some people think there is a bad vibe and others insist there isn't is already a lingering conflict over the place.

I'm just tired of waiting for it to resolve itself in silence. I've been trying to just take the 'non-interference' approach but maybe some things need to be said and discussed.

I'm just going to raise a ruckus until people can't ignore me, I suppose.

Already I can imagine how some might feel about 'upsetting the peace', but I think the peace is a lie anyways.

Again though, I appreciate your perspective and attitude. I don't care to 'change' anyone but I would like to provoke some thought I think.

Nah, I'm not really gonna do anything. People like the status quo (if we even have that here). Humour is hard to articulate through text.

(09-25-2018, 01:59 PM)Aion Wrote:

(09-25-2018, 10:23 AM)Glow Wrote:

(09-25-2018, 03:20 AM)Aion Wrote: Sorry to hear he's still not doing better, hopefully with time he will open up to your help.

Like I said I've been here awhile and I've seen a lot of different things going on. However, there are some things about the forum and L/L Research that I have observed. One is that the people who are physically involved with L/L and the members of the forum are fairly separate entities. Even most of the people who go to the yearly gatherings are not people who are on the forum. (Maybe cause others have picked up on the funky vibe...) In general I think that not a lot of attention is paid to moderation in terms of behaviour.

This is because, two, I have noticed that since the claim in the Ra Material that acceptance is the pathway to positivity has driven many to insist on absolute acceptance of all things, even atrocity. I think that part of the driver for this is the existence of the Hidden Hand material. I am not sure if you are familiar but if not then you should probably read it. I think it will give you an idea of what sort of energy is lingering around this place. It attempts to make acceptable all the evils of the world.

https://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_societies/hidden_hand_081018

I agree with you that there is a lot of confusion here and that darkness and light have been conflated with eachother. As far I am aware there is no one who has caused anyone else to actually commit suicide on the forum and the only previous member I am aware of to off themselves already had the tendency and it had nothing to do with the forum but there is no doubt that C_A is not the first individual to be troubled by the 'total acceptance is the way' narrative.

There's this idea that goes around that 'balance' or being 'positive' means accepting every horror that is before you. I don't agree with that. I think that the forum is stuck in the 'sinkhole of indifference' as some might put it. It's not really moving towards either polarity but rather spinning in circles caught in the middle. That's how it seems to me anyways.

I think that really what this forum is missing and what C_A needed but didn't get here was gentleness, softness and listening compassion. I certainly don't have a talent for being gentle, as you've already noted, but I do still try to help.

He did get that, only it was done via pm.
We talked a lot, even the day he left.

I would bet money other people also connected with him in a more nurturing way via pm.

Maybe so, but that clearly didn't give him the overall impression of the place and on many occasions he expressed similar things publicly so whatever he was getting through PMs clearly wasn't enough to offset the feelings he got from the rest of the place.

Personally, I'm not a 'rose coloured glasses' kind of person. I can acknowledge people do things in ignorance or unintentionally while still acknowledging that harm can still come from that. I'm not trying to put down the members of the forum, I am trying to bring light to what I observed in regards to the ways he seemed to often be hurt by this place.

Brushing off the hurt with 'everyone does their best' is exactly the kind of talk I think he was very bothered by, and which also bothers me. People aren't perfect so I don't feel the need to justify their every action as being part of some cosmic lesson plan. Pain doesn't need justification, it needs nurturing and care. This is something I didn't properly understand when interacting with him before either. I wish I could go back now and be a lot wiser with my words, but I also accept responsibility for any hurt I may have caused.

I agree it is unlikely there are many, if any, individuals who are consciously and intentionally trying to be cruel or hurtful, but the fact is someone doesn't have to be conscious or intentional to be harmful and just because one thing may not seem harmful to someone doesn't mean it doesn't hurt someone else.

My point being that what I would really 'point the finger' at on this forum is really just simple carelessness with words. I think that often the power of words is grossly underestimated and I am also guilty of that carelessness. However, this can never be addressed if anytime someone gets hurt its brushed off as 'their interpretation'. This 'everyone for themselves' attitude does not befit a cooperative community, in my eyes.

(09-26-2018, 02:28 AM)One of Love Wrote: I just have to laugh real fast.  I've been wondering what other accounts he made here, just found it.  He really likes his first story character.

Did you know the name Van from his name actually was inspired by his favorite shoe brand, Vans?

Does anyone know if he had any other accounts??

Honestly not sure if this is a stupid or bad question.
Would it be impossible to unlock those accounts (with his permission first of course) to go through his PM's?  I'm fairly certain I know what password he used here  at least for his CA account but if not I think I can get them out of him.