(03-24-2019, 08:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: These two answer seems contradictory:

Quote:11.8 Questioner: Is there anyone in our history that is commonly known who went to a fourth-density self-service or negative type planet or who will go there?

Ra: I am Ra. The number of entities thus harvested is small. However, a few have penetrated the eighth level which is only available from the opening up of the seventh through the sixth. Penetration into the eighth or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

Quote:34.2 Questioner: Thank you very much. We’ll start general questioning now. You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle. When this penetration of the eighth level occurs what does the entity who penetrates this experience? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. The experience of each entity is unique in perception of intelligent infinity. Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. The entity which reaches intelligent infinity most often will perceive this experience as one of unspeakable profundity. However, it is not usual for the entity to immediately desire the cessation of the incarnation. Rather the desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others is extremely strong.

(03-24-2019, 08:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: These two answer seems contradictory:

Quote:11.8 Questioner: Is there anyone in our history that is commonly known who went to a fourth-density self-service or negative type planet or who will go there?

Ra: I am Ra. The number of entities thus harvested is small. However, a few have penetrated the eighth level which is only available from the opening up of the seventh through the sixth. Penetration into the eighth or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

Quote:34.2 Questioner: Thank you very much. We’ll start general questioning now. You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle. When this penetration of the eighth level occurs what does the entity who penetrates this experience? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. The experience of each entity is unique in perception of intelligent infinity. Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. The entity which reaches intelligent infinity most often will perceive this experience as one of unspeakable profundity. However, it is not usual for the entity to immediately desire the cessation of the incarnation. Rather the desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others is extremely strong.

Quote:52.4 ▶ Questioner: Then I am assuming in the positively oriented social memory complexes that a much higher percentage of them use the personality disciplines for this travel. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. As positive fifth density moves into sixth there are virtually no entities which any longer use outer technology for travel or communication.

52.5 ▶ Questioner: Could you give me the same information on the negatively oriented social memory complexes as to the ratios, how they use the slingshot or other effect (personality [disciplines])?
Ra: I am Ra. The fourth-density negative uses the slingshot gravitic light effect, perhaps 80% of its membership being unable to master the disciplines necessary for alternate methods of travel. In fifth-density negative approximately 50% at some point gain the necessary discipline to use thought to accomplish travel. As the sixth density approaches, the negative orientation is thrown into confusion and little travel is attempted. What travel is done is perhaps 73% of light/thought.

(03-24-2019, 08:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: These two answer seems contradictory:

Quote:11.8 Questioner: Is there anyone in our history that is commonly known who went to a fourth-density self-service or negative type planet or who will go there?

Ra: I am Ra. The number of entities thus harvested is small. However, a few have penetrated the eighth level which is only available from the opening up of the seventh through the sixth. Penetration into the eighth or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

Quote:34.2 Questioner: Thank you very much. We’ll start general questioning now. You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle. When this penetration of the eighth level occurs what does the entity who penetrates this experience? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. The experience of each entity is unique in perception of intelligent infinity. Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. The entity which reaches intelligent infinity most often will perceive this experience as one of unspeakable profundity. However, it is not usual for the entity to immediately desire the cessation of the incarnation. Rather the desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others is extremely strong.

And, I have been studying hindu sources and penetration into intelligent infinity means total union with God in consciousness. How a STS entity can do this and still a negative being?

(03-24-2019, 08:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: These two answer seems contradictory:

Quote:11.8 Questioner: Is there anyone in our history that is commonly known who went to a fourth-density self-service or negative type planet or who will go there?

Ra: I am Ra. The number of entities thus harvested is small. However, a few have penetrated the eighth level which is only available from the opening up of the seventh through the sixth. Penetration into the eighth or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

Quote:34.2 Questioner: Thank you very much. We’ll start general questioning now. You stated at an earlier time that penetration of the eighth level or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle. When this penetration of the eighth level occurs what does the entity who penetrates this experience? Can you tell me this?

Ra: I am Ra. The experience of each entity is unique in perception of intelligent infinity. Perceptions range from a limitless joy to a strong dedication to service to others while in the incarnated state. The entity which reaches intelligent infinity most often will perceive this experience as one of unspeakable profundity. However, it is not usual for the entity to immediately desire the cessation of the incarnation. Rather the desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others is extremely strong.

And, I have been studying hindu sources and penetration into intelligent infinity means total union with God in consciousness. How a STS entity can do this and still a negative being?

***************
There is this answer of Q'uo about that:

Quote:Questioner: One more. Do entities that polarize towards service to self also experience such moments of enlightenment, of oneness?

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. These contacts with intelligent infinity do indeed occur for those upon the negatively or service-to-self oriented path. However, the experience is one which moves past the green-ray energy center from yellow to blue, then to indigo, in order that the negatively oriented entity, who sees compassion and love for all as folly, may experience a contact with the one Creator that is in accord with its chosen path, that which sees the power, the control, and the setting in order of those about it as its duty and as that which is most desired.

(03-24-2019, 02:25 PM)flofrog Wrote: Infinite, in the second quote, 34.2,  I think Don asks about positive entities,  so Ra's answer is about positive and not negative.  Am I wrong ?

(03-24-2019, 02:36 PM)xise Wrote: To deconstruct where I find potential support for this in the Ra language:
"Perceptions range" - I think it's reasonable to interpret this as variability in what occurs. It's not really set in stone.
"Perceptions range from limitless joy to a strong dedication to STO" - this seems to indicate that variable perceptions result from contact with II, including limitless joy without strong dedication to STO.
"Rather the desire to communicate or use this experience to aid others is extremely strong" You can override a strong desire with even stronger inbuilt biases and desires. STS are pretty good at controlling things, and I suspect between their inbuilt rejection of Oneness/otherselves being of value and their ability to control, they would have no problem not desiring STO or not desiring to aid others after contact with II.

(03-24-2019, 03:38 PM)anagogy Wrote: Infinite, I would suggest that Ra's language, while often precise, was not always perfect.

(03-24-2019, 03:38 PM)anagogy Wrote: Having said that, I suggest there is a slight difference between "penetrating" intelligent infinity and "seating one's consciousness there". The former is tapping into intelligent energy, where the shaping powers of this energy may be used for whatever purpose it is channeled towards (self harvest for example).

(03-24-2019, 05:58 PM)unity100 Wrote: There isnt any contradiction. If you read the earlier and following q/as, you will notice that these pertain to positive and negative entities as flofrog noted.

(03-24-2019, 05:58 PM)unity100 Wrote: Contact with intelligent infinity causes the negative entity to immediately desire to cease incarnation, because it doesnt care about other entities. It has done what it needed, now it wants to go.

(03-24-2019, 08:25 PM)Infinite Wrote:

(03-24-2019, 03:38 PM)anagogy Wrote: Having said that, I suggest there is a slight difference between "penetrating" intelligent infinity and "seating one's consciousness there". The former is tapping into intelligent energy, where the shaping powers of this energy may be used for whatever purpose it is channeled towards (self harvest for example).

Yes. On the one hand I think similar to you. The STS entity will penetrate into intelligent infinity but because your energy field missing the green and blue-ray, your perception will be something like an infinity increase of sense of power and separation. But in on the other hand, it's strange think in the penetration being a violet-ray activaction and the entity remaining negative. In this case, your theory from another topic that STS remain in the indigo-ray and use it to harvest yourself is more coherent.

Quote:There are adepts who have penetrated many, many of the energy centers and several of the true colors. This must be done with utmost care while in the physical body for as we noted when speaking of the dangers of linking red/orange/yellow circuitry with true-color blue circuitry the potential for disarrangement of the mind/body/spirit complex is great. However, the entity who penetrates intelligent infinity is basically capable of walking the universe with unfettered tread. (48.10)

Quote:The purpose of clearing each energy center is to allow that meeting place to occur at the indigo-ray vibration, thus making contact with intelligent infinity and dissolving all illusions. Service-to-others is automatic at the released energy generated by this state of consciousness. (57.33)

(03-25-2019, 06:26 AM)loostudent Wrote: For me it's hard to imagine how is it even possible to contact II without seeking love first.

Quote:47.4 Questioner: Did you say that blue was missing from fourth-density negative?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us clarify further. As we have previously stated, all beings have the potential for all possible vibratory rates. Thus the potential of the green and blue energy center activation is, of course, precisely where it must be in a creation of Love. However, the negatively polarized entity will have achieved harvest due to extremely efficient use of red and yellow/orange, moving directly to the gateway indigo bringing through this intelligent energy channel the instreamings of intelligent infinity.

(03-25-2019, 07:35 AM)Infinite Wrote:

(03-25-2019, 06:26 AM)loostudent Wrote: For me it's hard to imagine how is it even possible to contact II without seeking love first.

Quote:47.4 Questioner: Did you say that blue was missing from fourth-density negative?

Ra: I am Ra. Let us clarify further. As we have previously stated, all beings have the potential for all possible vibratory rates. Thus the potential of the green and blue energy center activation is, of course, precisely where it must be in a creation of Love. However, the negatively polarized entity will have achieved harvest due to extremely efficient use of red and yellow/orange, moving directly to the gateway indigo bringing through this intelligent energy channel the instreamings of intelligent infinity.

They use the three lower chakras and go directly to indigo-ray center, abnegating the green and blue-ray chakras.

But, I suppose this is different of penetration into intelligent infinity because seems that penetration use the violet-ray.

Quote:Questioner: One more. Do entities that polarize towards service to self also experience such moments of enlightenment, of oneness?

I am Q’uo, and am aware of your query, my sister. These contacts with intelligent infinity do indeed occur for those upon the negatively or service-to-self oriented path. However, the experience is one which moves past the green-ray energy center from yellow to blue, then to indigo, in order that the negatively oriented entity, who sees compassion and love for all as folly, may experience a contact with the one Creator that is in accord with its chosen path, that which sees the power, the control, and the setting in order of those about it as its duty and as that which is most desired.

(03-25-2019, 05:33 PM)xise Wrote: I mentioned this in the Wisdom Run Amok thread recently, but Infinite your Q'uo quote raised the possibility of a Ra/Q'uo disagreement/mischanneling/mistranslation/insertotherreasonhere on how negatives contact II and whether negatives use blue to contact II /.../

Quote:There are adepts who have penetrated many, many of the energy centers and several of the true colors. This must be done with utmost care while in the physical body for as we noted when speaking of the dangers of linking red/orange/yellow circuitry with true-color blue circuitry the potential for disarrangement of the mind/body/spirit complex is great.

Quote:71.17 Questioner: The change in consciousness should result in a greater distortion towards service to others, toward unity with all, and toward knowing in order to serve. Is this correct, and are there any other desired results?

Ra: I am Ra. These are commendable phrases. The heart of white magic is the experience of the joy of union with the Creator. This joy will of necessity radiate throughout the life experience of the positive adept. It is for this reason that sexual magic is not restricted solely to the negatively oriented polarizing adepts but when most carefully used has its place in high magic as it, when correctly pursued, joins body, mind, and spirit with the One Infinite Creator.

Any purpose which you may frame should, we suggest, take into consideration this basic union with the One Infinite Creator, for this union will result in service to others of necessity.

(03-25-2019, 05:33 PM)xise Wrote: I mentioned this in the Wisdom Run Amok thread recently, but Infinite your Q'uo quote raised the possibility of a Ra/Q'uo disagreement/mischanneling/mistranslation/insertotherreasonhere on how negatives contact II and whether negatives use blue to contact II - just requoting what you quoted earlier in this thread, underlying the relevant portion:

Quote:The violet ray of fourth-density negative has in its aura, shall we say, the tinge of red, orange, yellow, these three rays being muddied rather than distinct.

Quote:As we have previously stated, all beings have the potential for all possible vibratory rates. Thus the potential of the green and blue energy center activation is, of course, precisely where it must be in a creation of Love. However, the negatively polarized entity will have achieved harvest due to extremely efficient use of red and yellow/orange, moving directly to the gateway indigo bringing through this intelligent energy channel the instreamings of intelligent infinity.

Quote:The seeker becomes the adept when it has balanced with minimal adequacy the energy centers red, orange, yellow, and blue with the addition of the green for the positive, thus moving into indigo work.

Quote:The blue-ray energy transfer is somewhat rare among your people at this time but is of great aid due to energy transfers involved in becoming able to express the self without reservation or fear.

Quote:Blue ray is the ray of free communication with self and with other-self. Having accepted that an harvestable or nearly harvestable entity will be working from this green-ray springboard one may then posit that the experiences in the remainder of the incarnation will be focused upon activation of the primary blue ray of freely given communication, of indigo ray, that of freely shared intelligent energy, and if possible, moving through this gateway, the penetration of violet-ray intelligent infinity. This may be seen to be manifested by a sense of the consecrate or hallowed nature of everyday creations and activities.

Quote:The great key to blue, indigo, and finally, that great capital of the column of sexual energy transfer, violet energy transfers, is the metaphysical bond or distortion which has the name among your peoples of unconditional love. In the blue-ray energy transfer the quality of this love is refined in the fire of honest communication and clarity;

Quote:With the green-ray transfer of energy you now come to the great turning point sexually as well as in each other mode of experience. The green ray may then be turned outward, the entity then giving rather than receiving. The first giving beyond green ray is the giving of acceptance or freedom, thus allowing the recipient of blue-ray energy transfer the opportunity for a feeling of being accepted, thus freeing that other-self to express itself to the giver of this ray. It will be noted that once green-ray energy transfer has been achieved by two mind/body/spirits in mating, the further rays are available without both entities having the necessity to progress equally. Thus a blue-ray vibrating entity or indigo-ray vibrating entity whose other ray vibrations are clear may share that energy with the green-ray other-self, thus acting as catalyst for the continued learn/teaching of the other-self. Until an other-self reaches green ray, such energy transfers through the rays is not possible.

Quote:...once the green ray has been achieved, the ability of the entity to enter blue ray is immediate and is only awaiting the efforts of the individual.

Quote:The graduation into fourth-density negative is achieved by those beings who have consciously contacted intelligent infinity through the use of red, orange, and yellow rays of energy.

(03-24-2019, 08:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: And, I have been studying hindu sources and penetration into intelligent infinity means total union with God in consciousness. How a STS entity can do this and still a negative being?

(10-16-2019, 12:49 PM)unity100 Wrote: Contact with intelligent infinity does not mean that the entity is of octave density, or developed past early 6d.

Quote:Questioner: Yes, thank you. I got a letter today from a brother who is very, very busy seeking Nirvana of the quickie variety and he would like to know the answer to a question which is difficult for me to fathom. However, I will ask it as he asked it because I would very much appreciate being able to send him a reply. He has studied under a yogic philosophy for many years and would very much like to return to the source. He identifies this source as being at the ninth density. He would like to know if it is possible to bypass all the intervening densities in this lifetime and go back to the source using his yogic practices. Could you comment on these concepts and help our brother, who is truly an earnest seeker, in any way that you see appropriate, please?

I am Laitos, and am aware of your question. We are also aware that entities such as this brother upon your planet at this time seek with great intensity the meaning of their lives and a path which might bring them that which might be called enlightenment. Many are the ways which your peoples have chosen to seek this path throughout the history of your planet. Each path has provided integral pieces of the puzzle, shall we say, which are most necessary for the sincere seeker to utilize in the polarization of the self to a degree which is, shall we say, harvestable. Many such paths have produced those called the saints, the avatars, the gurus, each of which, through disciplined exercises of many kinds, has been able to balance the centers of energy in your mind and body/mind/spirit complex to a degree that is necessary for this harvest into the next density of the illusion of the one Creator. Each discipline, while providing a viable path for the spiritual evolution, also contains those facets which may be considered distortions or misapprehensions of certain spiritual qualities and descriptions.

It is our humble understanding that the path of spiritual evolution must be one which is straight and narrow and of some considerable length, traveling through many illusions and densities with the one goal of becoming one with the Creator. What this means for each entity in any illusion is that the instreamings of the love/light of the one Creator are available for use by each entity; this love/light or prana being channeled through the energy centers or chakras, if you will, in such a manner that the light is used efficiently, each density providing the seeker of union with a greater intensity of light.

Upon the completion of the cycle of incarnations in any density an entity is given the opportunity to, shall we say, grade itself by being bathed in the light of the one Creator until it is no longer able to withstand or utilize the increasing intensity of light. This light has degrees shall we say, of vibration. When the entity can no longer withstand or use the light, then it stops at that point and that point falls where it may. Wherever it falls it is then the entity’s choice, by its own ability to use the light, to continue its study in the appropriate illusion which matches the intensity of light which has been utilized.

Few there are upon your planet at this time who can withstand the intensity of the light of the fourth density. For this light is what might be called a quantum leap beyond that which you now experience within your third density. If any entity were to experience it for but a moment and be able to withstand it, for that moment that entity would feel indeed that it had returned to its Source and would most likely be quite appreciative of that experience. For such seekers as your brother to desire to progress more rapidly than is possible, shall we say, realizing that all things are possible, is a commendable trait, but one which is not likely to be realized, for though your density provides an intense degree of catalyst and opportunity for traveling the spiritual path, to the best of our knowledge, it does not provide enough catalyst to build the polarity necessary to, shall we say, skip any density.

To the best of our knowledge, when this octave of densities is completed the individualized entities will find themselves at the level of the eighth density— one with the Source of this particular creation. But our teachers have not themselves found such union nor have their teachers told them of an end to such progressions.

We shall continue. For an entity to return to the Source does not mean the end to evolution. For an entity to desire to progress spiritually as rapidly as possible is quite commendable, but we would suggest that it is most necessary to learn to walk, shall we say, before one runs or flies or soars beyond the start. Yours is a density in which the child learns to crawl. Rejoice in the opportunities which are thusly presented to you.

(10-16-2019, 07:51 PM)Infinite Wrote: And I have no longer that doubt. I think that STS just "see" the intelligent infinity with the perspective of the triad red/orange/yellow. While STO entities "see" the intelligent infinity in the rainbow perspective.

(10-16-2019, 08:09 PM)unity100 Wrote: It must be noted it is not an actual seeing, instead a state of consciousness and awareness.

(10-16-2019, 07:51 PM)Infinite quoting Quo Wrote: For an entity to desire to progress spiritually as rapidly as possible is quite commendable, but we would suggest that it is most necessary to learn to walk, shall we say, before one runs or flies or soars beyond the start. Yours is a density in which the child learns to crawl. Rejoice in the opportunities which are thusly presented to you.

(10-16-2019, 12:49 PM)unity100 Wrote:

(03-24-2019, 08:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: And, I have been studying hindu sources and penetration into intelligent infinity means total union with God in consciousness. How a STS entity can do this and still a negative being?

Hindu sources would be the ones which should not be considered 100% precise and proper representations. Religions of the world have their own development and their cultural biases.

...

Contact with intelligent infinity does not mean that the entity is of octave density, or developed past early 6d. A positive 3d entity contacting intelligent infinity during incarnation is still a positive 3d entity which just managed to reach the next vibration - 4d. A negative 3d entity contacting intelligent infinity is the same, albeit negative.

What they will experience will be according to their vibration level, in this case early 4d understanding, and their personal inclinations and especially spiritual biases.

Neither of them are likely to experience the state of unison from early 6d and on seen with 6d awareness. And even if they see it, they will understand and interpret it according to their own vibration level.

For positive 4d that could be about love, about helping others, selflessness. For negative 4d that could be everything being about itself, selfishness.

(07-14-2018, 08:57 PM)anagogy Wrote: To open the indigo center requires a purity of faith (and will). Whether it be for positive or negative. To cross the gateway requires a leap of faith (wherein faith is perfected -- one is then given access, by this transformation, to the Great Way of the Spirit -- intelligent infinity). Negatives don't desire to cross the gateway, they just want to manipulate the instreamings. They use the power of faith, empowered by the will, but they don't go beyond faith into knowingness (violet ray).

These are the answers I have come to. I don't have all the answers. I enjoy reading your rigorous research of different bodies of channeled material though.