(05-08-2016, 07:20 PM)Minyatur Wrote: While I get your point, do you believe the spirit of the molecule would truly find itself to be "plundered" because of this?

Quote:74.15 Questioner: If we had constructed a ritual of our own with words used for the first time in the sequence of protection what would have been the relative merit of this with respect to the ritual that we chose?

Ra: I am Ra. It would be less. In constructing ritual it is well to study the body of written work which is available for names of positive or service-to-others power are available.

74.16 Questioner: I will make an analogy to the loudness of ringing of the telephone in using the ritual as the efficiency of the practitioners using the ritual. Now, I see several things affecting the efficiency of the ritual: first, the desire of the practitioners to serve, their ability to invoke the magical personality, their ability to visualize while performing the ritual, and let me ask you as to the relative importance of those items and how each may be intensified?

Ra: I am Ra. This query borders upon over-specificity. It is most important for the adept to feel its own growth as teach/learner.

We may only say that you correctly surmise the paramount import of the magical personality. This is a study in itself. With the appropriate emotional will, polarity, and purity, work may be done with or without proper sound vibration complexes. However, there is no need for the blunt instrument when the scalpel is available.

(05-08-2016, 07:29 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: In other words: why complicate/innovate an already time-tested ritual?

Quote:Ra: Many use the trunk and roots of mind as if that portion of mind were a badly used, prostituted entity. Then this entity gains from this great storehouse that which is rough, prostituted, and without great virtue. Those who turn to the deep mind, seeing it in the guise of the maiden, go forth to court it. The courtship has nothing of plunder in its semblance and may be protracted, yet the treasure gained by such careful courtship is great. The right-hand and left-hand transformations of the mind may be seen to differ by the attitude of the conscious mind towards its own resources as well as the resources of other-selves.

(05-06-2016, 03:38 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Pharmahuasca caused my schizophrenia, so I'm not so quick to try it again.

(05-08-2016, 06:52 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I see this as the same, in a way, for natural vs. synthetic. If we take a look at the earth and nature, absolutely everything we could possibly need is provided by her - for instance, we can get DMT from the ayahuasca. But that's not enough. We want a quicker fix. So we try to contort nature to do things for our benefit, instead of cultivating patience to wait for her to provide for us what we need. It's a subtle thing but I think it's important to take into consideration. There's a reason why the ritual to extract the DMT is so intense and profound, to synthesize that step in a lab cheapens it IMO. This is the case with most things.

Quote:93.21 Questioner: I’m at a loss to know the significance of the serpents that adorn the head of the entity on this drawing. Are they of Ra and, if so, what do they signify?
Ra: I am Ra. They are cultural in nature. In the culture to which these images were given the serpent was the symbol of wisdom. Indeed, to the general user of these images perhaps the most accurate connotation of this portion of the concept complexes might be the realization that the serpent is that which is powerful magically. In the positive sense this means that the serpent will appear at the indigo-ray site upon the body of the image figures. When a negative connotation is intended one may find the serpent at the solar plexus center.

93.22 Questioner: Is there any significance to the serpent? Is there any polarity to the serpent as we experience it in this illusion?
Ra: I am Ra. We assume that you question the serpent as used in these images rather than the second-density life form which is a portion of your experience. There is a significance to the serpent form in a culture which coexists with your own but which is not your own; that is, the serpent as symbol of that which some call the kundalini and which we have discussed in previous material

(05-09-2016, 08:27 AM)Minyatur Wrote: In regards to a shaman, I have a tendency to prefer being mostly self-taught in the discovery of myself and would not entrust this experience to another because it is an adept. I plan on doing a ceremony with a shaman when it will be somethimg I wom't truly need to pierce my veil and instead use the exerience to connect with a group.

(05-08-2016, 11:53 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(05-08-2016, 06:52 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I see this as the same, in a way, for natural vs. synthetic. If we take a look at the earth and nature, absolutely everything we could possibly need is provided by her - for instance, we can get DMT from the ayahuasca. But that's not enough. We want a quicker fix. So we try to contort nature to do things for our benefit, instead of cultivating patience to wait for her to provide for us what we need. It's a subtle thing but I think it's important to take into consideration. There's a reason why the ritual to extract the DMT is so intense and profound, to synthesize that step in a lab cheapens it IMO. This is the case with most things.

Okay, but someone could have just as much reverence with a substance synthesized in a laboratory as a with a substance synthesized or extracted by a shaman in the forest. Reverence comes in many forms. I've met people that have done nearly exactly what IGW did and had great reverence for the chemicals even though they were pharmaceuticals and not derived manually from some plant out in the jungle. And they had fantastic and positive spiritual experiences. I don't think one can really judge what is a "plundering and prostituted" act from the outside. The charge of any action can't be known from that angle.

At the end of the day, what is nature? It is simply the natural behavior of the organisms that comprise it: mineral, fauna, and flora, and the weather. And nature naturally gave rise to animals, of which all do that which is natural to themselves. The human animal is simply doing what is natural to them, and thus everything that "seems" synthetic is actually part of nature to. The portion of your argument I agree with is the idea to have respect and reverence for the substances of nature, but everything in this world is produced by nature. Afterall, humans are a part of nature, so anything they produce is an extension of that nature.

The stuff that most of population confuses as "natural" is just as likely to harm your mind and body as things produced by humans (which as I said, is really also part of nature). There are tons of cases of people accidentally eating the wrong plant and either dying or ending up in a hospital. Point being: anything can be a detriment or a benefit, depending on its relativity to the experiencer.

The thing of importance is balance, and any substance can play a role in that balance whether it was combined in a laboratory, or combined in a plant out in the forest.

(05-09-2016, 10:37 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Anyway, my point again: I believe there is a reason that DMT has hidden itself so thoroughly and traditionally is extracted from a very intense ritual. Those who have been able to isolate the molecule in a laboratory have likely not done this with service to others intentions, or with the highest intent for the molecule, as "laboratory pharmaceuticals" are one of the biggest cash cows available, at least in America. Again, if we use the prostitute/maiden metaphor, it's like taking your maiden and having someone strip off all of her clothes for you, and then you find her already "primed". Where as an ayahuasca ceremony is more about patiently waiting for the maiden to take off her clothes for you, and reveal herself.

Jade Wrote:Again, we wrap back around to "purity of intention". I'm sorry if you think I'm being judgemental, but this is the Transformation of the Mind. It's very important to be honest with ourselves with how we view the resources of others.

Quote:Another point I think needs making - as it frequently comes up in conversations related to the use of ayahuasca, San Pedro, peyote, and probably with all of the master plant teachers - is the question of the value of a curandero. The question that arises is whether or not a curandero (in the case of auahuasca and San Pedro) or a "Roadman" (in the case of peyote) is necessary. The answer, I think, is that they're not necessary - the plants will teach you something whether there is a curandero or not. But I think that the work of a good curandero can add whole dimensions to the experience.

On a physical level, the curandero is the master preparer of the auhuasca. He must be compared to a chef, rather than a cook. More than that, his interactions with the spirits of the plants he's working with are what's of great value. The plants must give up their chemicals to whomever puts them in a pot and boils them.

But the curandero, through his relationship with the sentient side of the plant, can encourage those plants to give up more than their chemical components, to give up their spirit. This is not to be dismissed.

Curanderos have generally spent years becoming intimate with the spirits of the plants. Moreover, the curandero might have several plant allies, and depending on the needs of those drinking on a given day might have a variety of admixture plants he can add to the basic recipe. And each of those plants bring their individual spirits and personalities to the ceremony the curandero is running.

And running the ceremony is really what the curandero does. It might look to an outsider as if he or she is just sitting on a stool, chanting and shaking a leaf-rattle, but he is doing much more than that. He is seeing what each person is dreaming, his icaros, songs, sending some further out into their dreams and pulling others back down to earth at the same time. The curandero is healing everyone simultaneously as well, even those who don't know they need it. He is asking his plant spirit allies to work with everyone, and his allies respond.

Until you've experienced it, that is a difficult thing to believe. One former guest explained it this way, just hours after his first ayahuasca experience. The guest was named Lynn, and he was one of two males among my six guests. He said he was sitting on the hut floor and not having much of a reaction to the medicine. "And at one point in the ceremony, I mentally called out to Julio to show me something," he said. "Anything that would indicate that I hadn't taken a very expensive trip for nothing."

"I had my eyes open while I was thinking that." he said. "And as soon as I did, Julio suddenly stood and grew about 14 feet tall and his chakras began spinning with the most fantastic lights, shooting colours all over the space and me. And then he very clearly said "Now can I get back to the work I was doing on the women?"

"In that moment," Lynn said, "I understood something fantastic happens out in that realm - a realm that I wasn't certain existed until that point in time."