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The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Printable Version

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RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Berilac Sandydowns - 05-21-2015

VanAlioSaldo. Should you choose to journey along that path a bit, I believe some of the things you learn will not match your preconceptions.
It's not difficult to find basic information on the skillsets involved from people who have btdt.
Hope I don't come off as even a little berating. I ain't like dat. Smile
Adrenaline is a strange thing...
****

I wanted to revisit my previous reply Re: Red Ray distortion.
I can see where it may have come off as a bit of a knee-jerk. There is probably some of that.

"Hey Buddy, you dissin my redrays?" haha

But I really did take that into consideration and answered as honestly as I could.

I've got some pretty strange things going on.

Number one is my inability to meditate due to the sudden onset of some kind of minor palsey that forces my head to shake.
It has certainly removed one important tool of exploration for me. As you may imagine.
I have yet to determine the origin.
I guess I can relate to FDR.

Well. Reckon I'll poke around a wee bit more and then hit the books again.
Namaste

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Zachary - 05-22-2015

this thread has been healing for me.

At the end of the day all I want is to Love Unconditionally. I get distracted (often). I am learning. I am humbled by my lack of Wisdom and experience. At the end of the day this is the only thing thats real to me. The only thing I want.

What ever it brings I am ready. I don't care about what happens to the body. I don't care about the fine details. Whatever shows itself externally, however grotesque. This life, that life. Who cares.

The only thing thats real is Love. This is what I seek. This is my lesson.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - VanAlioSaldo - 05-22-2015

(05-21-2015, 12:44 PM)Diana Wrote:
(05-21-2015, 05:48 AM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: Working at a gas station at nights I had to literally devise a manner of how to act in congruency with my beliefs in such areas.  I'd rather live and let live than die.

With a gun that means trying not to go for lethal hits (I do want to learn how to best down and incapacitate with body shots.)

Seriously, why not defend yourself with intent not to kill?

Why don't you learn self-defense? There are effective self-defense gun techniques even. It would change your feeling about being at a disadvantage. It doesn't mean you would no longer want to protect yourself with a gun perhaps, but you will feel less need for it. A few classes won't do it though. You must reach a point where you have accumulated enough muscle memory and confidence, and hopefully find a good teacher. 

Learning Wing-Chun has been an interest ever since I watched Ipman...But I have been aware that a martial art would be beneficial mentally and spiritually, and the discipline.  I want to learn such pretty badly.

Ive thought of tasers but they're not the same.  Adrenaline wise, if I can maintain the lead i think I'll be able to defuse the situation.
Of course I'll be all shaky legged lol

And if I fail, well.  Better luck next time for me.  Whether i die or kill. But in all honesty, I don't think I'll ever be in that situation until I'm partially prepared for it enough to handle it partially well enough to be useful to me.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Berilac Sandydowns - 05-24-2015

Don't mean too overflog this, but I found this after a search.
I read "around" it and it is appropriate for this discussion and doesn't seem to be taken out of context.


Quote:
75.15 ...We do not imply that this course of unbridled compassion has any fault but affirm its perfection. It is an example of love which has served as beacon to many.
For those who seek further, the consequences of martyrdom must be considered, for in martyrdom lies the end of the opportunity, in the density of the martyr, to offer love and light. Each entity must seek its deepest path.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Monica - 06-02-2015

(05-21-2015, 12:44 PM)Diana Wrote: Why don't you learn self-defense? There are effective self-defense gun techniques even. It would change your feeling about being at a disadvantage. It doesn't mean you would no longer want to protect yourself with a gun perhaps, but you will feel less need for it. A few classes won't do it though. You must reach a point where you have accumulated enough muscle memory and confidence, and hopefully find a good teacher. 

I agree that self-defense classes would be very valuable and would likely reduce the feeling of needing a gun. As martial artists say: "You can't take a gun with you into the shower!" Guns have limitations. Self defense training is with you always.

Also, there are many instances in which there could be a threat without a gun, or there could be some other weapon, such as a knife, which can be disarmed by a skilled martial artist.

I'm married to a Kung Fu Master, and even the masters say that attempting to disarm someone with a gun is risky business. When embarking on martial arts training, it's important to choose an instructor who has a realistic view of weapons. Many 'disarm' techniques commonly taught don't work in a real situation.

I agree that muscle memory is extremely important; else the techniques will be forgotten in the heat of the moment. Martial arts training with a good instructor can be very valuable in learning how to avoid dangerous sitautions in the first place, and how to identify when they escalate. The highest form of martial art is to never have to fight at all.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Berilac Sandydowns - 06-03-2015

I am reading "Living The Law of One: The Choice" and just ran across this on page 176 where Carla says:
"No, it is not a correct solution to kill others unless we are defending our homes and families against aggression. "

Just wanted to add it here for the sake of comprehensive documentation on this subject.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Monica - 06-03-2015

(06-03-2015, 04:11 AM)Berilac Sandydowns Wrote: I am reading "Living The Law of One: The Choice" and just ran across this on page 176 where Carla says:
"No, it is not a correct solution to kill others unless we are defending our homes and families against aggression. "

I agree with Carla.

Related thread about the spiritual implications of self-defense, and the distinction between initiating violence and using violence to stop an aggressor (as a last resort of course):

Strictly Law of One Material v > Acceptance and Will

...

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Berilac Sandydowns - 06-03-2015

Thanks Monica. Our thoughts on this align very closely I believe.
I read the first and last pages of that thread and skimmed some in between. It covers the subject thoroughly. It's rather extensive and wide-ranging.
Maybe a little too much for people who are looking for very focused information on the subject Zachary brings up here.
***
If one conducts a search here for "guns", titles only, there is one return. This thread.
If one searches "survival", titles only, there is one return. Which is where I found the quote posted in #34 above.

I frequent a number of sites that delve into these topics and have no wish to discuss the technical or political aspects of them here.
However, times being what they are, I believe more and more people will be looking for some kind of guidance on this "issue" in the weeks and months ahead.
Perhaps a one-stop, on-topic, documented, simplified and minimally verbose thread is appropriate.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Monica - 06-03-2015

(05-22-2015, 12:43 AM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: Learning Wing-Chun has been an interest ever since I watched Ipman...But I have been aware that a martial art would be beneficial mentally and spiritually, and the discipline.

Oh cool! That is the style my husband teaches.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - AnthroHeart - 06-03-2015

(06-03-2015, 12:28 PM)Monica Wrote:
(05-22-2015, 12:43 AM)VanAlioSaldo Wrote: Learning Wing-Chun has been an interest ever since I watched Ipman...But I have been aware that a martial art would be beneficial mentally and spiritually, and the discipline.

Oh cool! That is the style my husband teaches.

Does your husband like to spar with others?

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Monica - 06-03-2015

(06-03-2015, 11:53 AM)Berilac Sandydowns Wrote: Thanks Monica. Our thoughts on this align very closely I believe.
I read the first and last pages of that thread and skimmed some in between. It covers the subject thoroughly. It's rather extensive and wide-ranging.
Maybe a little too much for people who are looking for very focused information on the subject Zachary brings up here.
***
If one conducts a search here for "guns", titles only, there is one return.  This thread.
If one searches "survival", titles only, there is one return. Which is where I found the quote posted in #34 above.

I frequent a number of sites that delve into these topics and have no wish to discuss the technical aspects of them here.
However, times being what they are, I believe more and more people will be looking for some kind of guidance on this "issue" in the weeks and months ahead.
Perhaps a one-stop, on-topic, documented, simplified and minimally verbose thread is appropriate.

People can choose as to whether they want to explore related discussions or not. It may seem straightforward, but once we get into analyzing from a Law of One perspective, not everyone is in agreement...so it's not quite so straightforward after all.

I do know of at least 1 other thread about guns, but I don't remember what it's called. It's in the Current Events...Politics sub-forum, I think. On that thread, there was a lot of disagreement about even having guns at all, even for self-defense, as well as disagreement about gun control. I remember some people were incredulous that anyone could even consider having a gun for self-defense! ...as though it were as bad as initiating violence...while others said it was fear-based to even consider such a thing. 

Then, on the thread I linked above, another person said self-defense was STS...

There definitely isn't a consensus about this issue.

It's a deep topic worthy of discussion, especially in light of the times we live in.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Monica - 06-03-2015

(06-03-2015, 12:29 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: Does your husband like to spar with others?

No. Wing Tsun isn't for sparring.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - AnthroHeart - 06-03-2015

I used to have a gun but was afraid of using it.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Monica - 06-03-2015

(06-03-2015, 12:47 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: I used to have a gun but was afraid of using it.

That was probably wise. 

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - neutral333 - 06-07-2015

(05-19-2015, 12:11 PM)Parsons Wrote: Related thread: Gun Laws

I have changed quite a bit since sharing my views in that thread. However, I still believe its perfectly fine to own and/or carry a firearm. I see them as a fire extinguisher or seatbelt: you have one but you hope you never have to use it. I am hoping simply having a firearm in my hands will deter someone from attacking myself or my family.
I agree...
Context, context, context.

We are not having this conversation about knives as they are used in a number of killings.  When I lived in China for 5 years, I would read about angry people going into schools and stabbing children and going to busy train stations and randomly stabbing others.  You often see stories of people killing doctors even, because of a perception that the surgery was botched or just that a doctor was deemed incompetent by the grieving relative! http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/25/under-the-knife


I think it is safe to assume that we all own knives and we need not lose any polarity by using them responsibly.  In fact, we may gain positive polarity by cooking a wonderful meal for others and sharing in love, life and laughter.

Guns are similar in the way that they are inanimate objects.  How they are used can definitely affect polarity.  I really like Parsons point that they are mainly used as a deterrent, both with individuals as well as with groups.  Even if all of the guns were collected, there would still be governments with the potential to use force in a negative way.  No atrocity by an individual or a small group of individuals has been carried out that comes close to matching what governmental powers have been capable of in the past.

I do not own a gun and never have.  I was very fearful of guns at one time.  It took me a lot of meditation on the subject before I finally went with a co-worker to a gun range about 2 years ago.  The 1st gun I shot was a Desert Eagle .50 caliber pistol.  I was shaking in my boots (Birkenstocks), but it was thrilling.  It didn't make me feel powerful, but it made me conquer my fear of an inanimate object.  Obviously, I didn't feel the need to run out and get a gun right away, but I probably will if I ever own any land or property.  I would use it as a deterrent, maybe fire some warning shots, but I do not think I could ever aim it at somebody.  If someone has negative intentions and they have a gun while you may not, they will see you as an easy target, prey and a victim.  At a basic instinct level, people who are disturbed enough to terrorize others with a gun will be deeply taken in fear and will not engage another threat.  I am for responsible well-meaning people having a firearm.  Our history of owning firearms comes in large from the Swiss.  The people are all trained and there are stockpiles in dugout areas of the mountains in every town with a mini armory.  They are doing it the right way. http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

Ironically, guns can be used to preserve life (and free will).

Peace

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Monica - 06-07-2015

(06-07-2015, 02:02 PM)neutral333 Wrote:
(05-19-2015, 12:11 PM)Parsons Wrote: Related thread: Gun Laws

I have changed quite a bit since sharing my views in that thread. However, I still believe its perfectly fine to own and/or carry a firearm. I see them as a fire extinguisher or seatbelt: you have one but you hope you never have to use it. I am hoping simply having a firearm in my hands will deter someone from attacking myself or my family.
I agree...
Context, context, context.

We are not having this conversation about knives as they are used in a number of killings.  When I lived in China for 5 years, I would read about angry people going into schools and stabbing children and going to busy train stations and randomly stabbing others.  You often see stories of people killing doctors even, because of a perception that the surgery was botched or just that a doctor was deemed incompetent by the grieving relative!  http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/25/under-the-knife


I think it is safe to assume that we all own knives and we need not lose any polarity by using them responsibly.  In fact, we may gain positive polarity by cooking a wonderful meal for others and sharing in love, life and laughter.

Guns are similar in the way that they are inanimate objects.  How they are used can definitely affect polarity.  I really like Parsons point that they are mainly used as a deterrent, both with individuals as well as with groups.  Even if all of the guns were collected, there would still be governments with the potential to use force in a negative way.  No atrocity by an individual or a small group of individuals has been carried out that comes close to matching what governmental powers have been capable of in the past.

I do not own a gun and never have.  I was very fearful of guns at one time.  It took me a lot of meditation on the subject before I finally went with a co-worker to a gun range about 2 years ago.  The 1st gun I shot was a Desert Eagle .50 caliber pistol.  I was shaking in my boots (Birkenstocks), but it was thrilling.  It didn't make me feel powerful, but it made me conquer my fear of an inanimate object.  Obviously, I didn't feel the need to run out and get a gun right away, but I probably will if I ever own any land or property.  I would use it as a deterrent, maybe fire some warning shots, but I do not think I could ever aim it at somebody.  If someone has negative intentions and they have a gun while you may not, they will see you as an easy target, prey and a victim.  At a basic instinct level, people who are disturbed enough to terrorize others with a gun will be deeply taken in fear and will not engage another threat.  I am for responsible well-meaning people having a firearm.  Our history of owning firearms comes in large from the Swiss.  The people are all trained and there are stockpiles in dugout areas of the mountains in every town with a mini armory.  They are doing it the right way.  http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html  

Ironically, guns can be used to preserve life (and free will).

Peace

Well said! (Both of you.)

I agree, but would add only that, in my perception, guns do carry an energetic charge, a magnetic pull, much more so than a knife. I think this is because guns don't have any other purpose but to harm or kill, whereas knives can be used for chopping onions.

Yes, many knives have been used violently also, but we don't really think about that when we open our kitchen drawer and pull out a knife when cooking dinner. I think the thoughtform that has manifested in this illusion as guns, collectively, carry a distinct energetic signature, from generations of violent use.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Minyatur - 06-07-2015

Guns do incarnate the desire of destruction, they are fire. But destruction has it's own beauty in Creation, it's just that those who build spend more efforts in building than those that destroy to destroy what's been built so it's kinda irritating for those who build. And in that my friends lies the beauty and one of the purpose of the fire element.

RE: The impulse to protect and polarization (Guns) - Zachary - 06-08-2015

(06-07-2015, 05:10 PM)Monica Wrote:
(06-07-2015, 02:02 PM)neutral333 Wrote:
(05-19-2015, 12:11 PM)Parsons Wrote: Related thread: Gun Laws

I have changed quite a bit since sharing my views in that thread. However, I still believe its perfectly fine to own and/or carry a firearm. I see them as a fire extinguisher or seatbelt: you have one but you hope you never have to use it. I am hoping simply having a firearm in my hands will deter someone from attacking myself or my family.
I agree...
Context, context, context.

We are not having this conversation about knives as they are used in a number of killings.  When I lived in China for 5 years, I would read about angry people going into schools and stabbing children and going to busy train stations and randomly stabbing others.  You often see stories of people killing doctors even, because of a perception that the surgery was botched or just that a doctor was deemed incompetent by the grieving relative!  http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/25/under-the-knife


I think it is safe to assume that we all own knives and we need not lose any polarity by using them responsibly.  In fact, we may gain positive polarity by cooking a wonderful meal for others and sharing in love, life and laughter.

Guns are similar in the way that they are inanimate objects.  How they are used can definitely affect polarity.  I really like Parsons point that they are mainly used as a deterrent, both with individuals as well as with groups.  Even if all of the guns were collected, there would still be governments with the potential to use force in a negative way.  No atrocity by an individual or a small group of individuals has been carried out that comes close to matching what governmental powers have been capable of in the past.

I do not own a gun and never have.  I was very fearful of guns at one time.  It took me a lot of meditation on the subject before I finally went with a co-worker to a gun range about 2 years ago.  The 1st gun I shot was a Desert Eagle .50 caliber pistol.  I was shaking in my boots (Birkenstocks), but it was thrilling.  It didn't make me feel powerful, but it made me conquer my fear of an inanimate object.  Obviously, I didn't feel the need to run out and get a gun right away, but I probably will if I ever own any land or property.  I would use it as a deterrent, maybe fire some warning shots, but I do not think I could ever aim it at somebody.  If someone has negative intentions and they have a gun while you may not, they will see you as an easy target, prey and a victim.  At a basic instinct level, people who are disturbed enough to terrorize others with a gun will be deeply taken in fear and will not engage another threat.  I am for responsible well-meaning people having a firearm.  Our history of owning firearms comes in large from the Swiss.  The people are all trained and there are stockpiles in dugout areas of the mountains in every town with a mini armory.  They are doing it the right way.  http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html  

Ironically, guns can be used to preserve life (and free will).

Peace

Well said! (Both of you.)

I agree, but would add only that, in my perception, guns do carry an energetic charge, a magnetic pull, much more so than a knife. I think this is because guns don't have any other purpose but to harm or kill, whereas knives can be used for chopping onions.

This is the very reason I decided against getting one for myself. I could feel the potential/probability of me "changing timelines" just by owning one.